This time we sat down with Ross Downing to talk about the new book he co-wrote and edited with Kaarina Aitamurto, Germanic and Slavic Paganisms: Security Threats and Resiliency, which through a collection of essays looks at the various ways the Viking past is interpreted and misinterpreted in modern Paganism. Ross has an extensive academic and professional background in the study of religions and Old Norse mythology as well as in investigating right wing extremism’s misuse of them.

In this interview, we talk about the background of modern Paganism and how it is deeply rooted in the romantic nationalism of the 19th century — a time when modern nation states were just being born in Europe, and many of them — including in Scandinavia — looked to the Vikings as the perfect model for how those nations wanted to be viewed: as strong, independent, and courageous folk with an adventurous spirit.

But, as Ross explains, the creation of that history and folklore also resulted in what his books calls “The Folkish Problem.” Originating in the German word völkisch, folkish refers to a more nativist and exclusive view of what it means to have Germanic heritage. And this “you’re either one of us, or you’re not” has become the basis for many right wing extremist movements who also co-opt Paganism and use the Vikings as their ideal.

Ross’ book highlights the problems this has caused and continues to cause in the world, and argues for an inclusive Paganism, or Heathenry, as well as provides tools for how it can work toward a set of beliefs and practices that are less prone to misuse and abuse by those who seek to use Viking history and symbols in dangerous ways. It should be read by anyone interested in the “Old Ways.”

We also discuss the obligation that academics who research Vikings have in helping us understand that past in a way that is grounded in the evidence. As a researcher who has taken his expertise into the world of security and threat assessment, Ross is the very embodiment of the ways that responsible scholarly knowledge of the past can be used to help address some of the most pressing issues of our time.

Thank you Ross for a very thought-provoking conversation!

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