Hello and welcome to episode 184, and as it turns out, the last episode of the Sustainable(ish) podcast! I wanted to try and get to 200, and I’m annoyed not even to be ending on a nice round number like 185, but often in life things aren’t tied up in a nice neat bow. Long term listeners will know that at times the podcast has been very stop start, and the time has come for an intentional stop. For now at at least. I’m not going to say that it will never be back in some form, as I genuinely love having these conversations and will miss the opportunities that the podcast has given me to speak to so many extraordinary and inspiring people. However it’s reached the point where the joy of the conversations is starting to be outweighed by the work involved organising and scheduling everything, editing it all, creating the blog posts and the socials etc etc, so time to put this particular project to bed, for a while at least.

 I am so delighted to be going out with such a bang and having the amazing opportunity to interview one of my absolute heroes, Clover Hogan.
Clover is a 24-year-old climate activist and the founding Executive Director of Force of Nature - the youth non-profit mobilising mindsets for climate action. She has worked alongside the world’s leading authorities on sustainability, consulted within the boardrooms of Fortune 50 companies, and counselled heads of state. Her TED talk, 'What to do when climate change feels unstoppable', has been viewed 2 million times. As we’ll hear in the chat, she started her activist journey at the age of just 11, and attended the instrumental Paris COP in 2015 at the age of just 15. She genuinely is a force of nature, and is the kind of person who you just want to be able to download everything that is in their head. We talk about her own journey, what we can do as parents to support our young people, and what we can do ourselves to move beyond individual action and to be a bit more activist. We discuss what the word activist even means, acknowledging that it’s an uncomfortable word for many, but that it encompasses such a wide range of things, and that an ‘in’ for many people is thinking about their workplace and what they might be able to to do to encourage their workplace on a sustainability journey.

I’m pretty sure it’s obvious from the chat, but this was a massive fan-girl moment for me,  I loved this chat and totally want Clover to be my new BFF. Ooh and just a quick warning if you tend to listen with kids around, I do drop an F-bomb towards the end – apologies in advance.

Enjoy!

Clover Hogan

• Clover Hogan
  - Website
  - Instagram
  - Linked In
  - You Tube
  - Twitter/X
• Forces of Nature
  - Website
  - Instagram
  - Tiktok
  - Twitter/X
  - Linked In
  - Podcast
  - Season 1
  - Season 2 - We need to talk about Eco Anxiety
  - Season 3 - Confessions of a climate activist
  - Climate Cafes
• An Inconvenient Truth by Al Gore
• Exxon Mobil wants you to feel responsible for climate change so it doesn't have to
• Katharine Hayhoe
• Global Action Plan - Bringing the values-perception gap to life
• Global Action Plan - United in compassion
• It's Not That Radical - Mikaela Loach
•  Carbon Literacy training
  

Forces of Nature

Forces of Nature podcast

In the spirit of London buses, ie nothing for ages and then two come along in close succession, this week’s episode is another foodie one, hot on the heels of Episode 180 - Food and climate change without the hot air with Professor Sarah Bridle. I’m chatting to Frank Holleman who is the co-founder of Fork Ranger, a platform and app that aims to help us to explore how to eat for the climate.
I was super aware of the recent food episode, and wanted to avoid simply repeating the same messages from that, so alongside diving into what Fork Ranger does, we also talked about climate communications, story telling and messaging, all of which Fork Ranger does incredibly well, and hopefully there’s a lot in this episode for all of us around how we talk about food and climate with friends, family and colleagues.

Enjoy!

Frank Holleman

• Fork Ranger
  - Website
  - Instagram
  - Linked In
  - You Tube
  - App
  - Frank on Linked In
• An Inconvenient Truth by Al Gore
• Project Drawdown
  - Drawdown book
  - The powerful role of household actions in solving climate change
• [180] - Food and climate change without the hot air
• Hooked by Nir Eyal
• Don't even think about it by George Marshall
• David Foster-Wallace - This is water (commencement speech)
• Saving Us by Katharine Hayhoe
•  Carbon Literacy training
• The Sustainable(ish) Clubhouse

One of the things that frustrates many people, is a lack of action from governments around the world to protect nature and mitigate the worst impacts of the a warming and rapidly changing climate.
The UK government was one of the first to come up with a Net Zero target back in 2019, and declared a ‘climate emergency’ that same year. However the problem with both of these commitments is that they often don’t translate into the urgent and radical action that is needed. Apparently half of the world's population is heading the polls for elections in 2024, including the UK, making this a crucial year for climate action.
In this week’s episode I’m delighted to be chatting to Amy McDonnell and Oliver Sidorczuk, co-directors of Zero Hour, a campaign that is working to get a new bill, the Climate and Nature Bill, passed into law, which would ensure that UK government  policies are in line with the latest science. With an election looming at some point this year, support for this bill in the run up to that, not only shows MPs and prospective MPs that this is an issue that the electorate care about, it will also mean that the campaign will have the momentum it needs to hit the ground running, when a new parliament sits after the election.
Studies repeatedly show that most people are concerned about the climate and nature crises, but especially when it comes to politics and elections, it can feel like we can make a difference, due to our electoral system. Supporting the Climate and Nature Bill is a brilliant (and very easy!) way make your voice heard  by your local politicians, and we can amplify our own individual support by asking businesses and organisations that we’re involved with to support it to.

Dr Amy McDonnell

Oliver Sidorczuk

• Zero Hour
  - Website
  - Instgram
  - Facebook
  - Twitter/X
  - Linked In
  - Constituency pages
  - Campaigner pack
  - Crowdfunding campaign
• Amy McDonnell on Linked In
• Oliver Sidorczuk on Linked In
• The Big Ask campaign
• UK Climate Change Act
• UK Environment Act
• COP 15 - Paris Agreement
• Biodiversity COP 15
• [166] - Climate 101 with Dr Adam Levy
• Climate Change Committee
• [144] - Hunger strike for climate with Angus Rose
• Green Alliance - Working with MPs on climate change
• Citizens Assemblies
• UK Climate Assembly
• The People V Climate Change - on iPlayer
• Climate Majority Project
• [177] - The power of your vote with William Eccles from The Commitment
• The Commitment
• Greenpeace's Project Climate Vote
• [135] - The Local Electricity Bill with Steve Shaw
• Power for People - Local Electricity Bill
•  Carbon Literacy training
• The Sustainable(ish) Clubhouse

Zero Hour's 2024 Election Campaign

Ask your local politicians to support the Climate and Nature Bill!

This week’s episode feels a little bit liking coming full circle on an episode from nearly 5 years ago!
If you’re a long-time listener, and have an excellent memory, you might remember, way back in 2019, I interviewed the wonderful Tillie Mabbutt who runs Frome Eco Party Kit, renting out a party kit of reusable plates, cups and bowls to avoid the waste associated with disposable partyware. At the time, Tillie was one of the first people in the UK to be running a reusable party kit and we dived into the idea, how it works, and how she got started.
Well… today’s guest Isabel was listenting to that episode, and not only started her own Party Kit off the back of it, but went on to create the Party Kit Network, which now has 360 kits listed in the UK, over 100 in Australia and is starting to branch out into North America too.
I Could. Not. Love. This. More!

In this episode we dive into party kits, what they are, how they work, how to find one, as well as how to start one if you’d love to have near you and there isn’t one. We also talk more broadly about the sharing economy – so this is the idea of an economy based on renting and sharing things rather than the linear buy, use, dispose model we currently have. We explore some of the difficulties around trying to do business in a different and lets face it, conter cultural way and Isabel’s ambitions for the Party Kit Network.

I hope you enjoy listening to this one as much as I enjoyed recording it!

Isabel Mack

Check out Isabel's Party Kits stacked up behind her!

A party kit complete with decorations and Pass the Parcel bags! Image: Party Kit Network

Re-usable Pass the Parcel bags (these are genius!) Image: Party Kit Network

Re-usable paper pompoms Image: Party Kit Network

• Party Kit Network
  - Website
  - Find a Party Kit
  - Facebook
  - Party Kit Network Owner Facebook group
  - Instagram
  - Twitter/X
  - Pinterest
  - Annual Impact Report 2023
  - Getting started guide
  - How to ask for no gifts when hosting a kid's birthday party (Isabel's blog post)
• [037]- How and why to set up a reusable party kit for kids birthday parties with Tillie from Frome Eco Party Packages
• Who Gives a Crap toilet roll
• Brothers Make - plastic recycling
• Citizens by Jon Alexander
• Erin Rhoads aka The Rogue Ginger
• People Planet Pint
• Plastic-free(ish) party bags
•  Carbon Literacy training
• The Sustainable(ish) Clubhouse

The Party Kit Global Map!

In this week's episode I'm chatting to Sarah Bridle, who is possibly our first Professor on the podcast! Professor Sarah Bridle is Chair in Food, Climate and Society at the University of York, researching environmental impacts of the food system and potential impacts of the environment on food availability. She is also the author of Food and Climate Change - Without the Hot Air, an accessible guide to how different foods contribute to climate change, a brilliant book which I would highly recommend!

Food is a big part of all of our lives. And it's a big part of the climate crisis too - around a third of all greenhouse gas emissions come from food. When it comes to 'sustainable food' it very quickly gets very complicated - there are so many different things to think about, and often it feels very difficult to make the 'right' decision.

I loved hearing Sarah's personal story around her career pivot from Astrophysics to food and climate change, and how she has also had to navigate the difficulties of trying to change family diets and habits in her own household, so understands that what can sound like straightforward swaps on paper, are often more challenging!

We cover a LOT in the episode, and I'm very aware that we might have simply opened a whole can of worms and raised even more questions - do let me know if there's bits that you would love to hear more about and dive into a little more detail!

Sarah Bridle

• Sarah Bridle
  - Linked In
  - Twitter/X
  - Food and climate change without the Hot Air
  - Sarah at University of York
  - TEDx talk - Eating our way out of climate change
  - Take a Bit out of Climate Change
  - Fix our Food
  - UKRI Agri-Food for Net Zero Network+
  - Climate Food Flashcards
  - Planet Pizza - free downloadable activity for kids
• David MacKay - Sustainable Energy without the Hot Air
• River Wye chicken farm pollution
• Regenesis - George Monbiot
• How Bad are Bananas? - Mike Berners-Lee
• [134] - How eating seasonally can lower your carbon footprint - with Veg Power
• [095] - How to make veggie meals our kids might actually eat - with Rachel Boyett
• [077] - How your freezer can help fight food waste - with Kate Hall
• [074] - Sustainable Eating
• [047] - Fighting Food Waste - with Olio
• [041] - Use your phone to fight food waste - with CozZo
• National Food Strategy
• WWF Live Well
• Carbon Literacy training
• The Sustainable(ish) Clubhouse
  

In this week's episode I'm chatting to comedian Stuart Goldsmith. I'm a bit of a comedy fan, so I listen to Stuart's podcast, the Comedian's Comedian where he interviews other comedians about their work and he seems to pretty much be BFFs with everyone on the comedy circuit. It might seem a bit random to be interviewing a comedian on the podcast, but as you will hear, in the last few years Stuart has been 'bitten by the sustainability bug' and has started to explore how he can use his skillset as a comedian and a speaker to help tackle the climate crisis. And oh my goodness, I can't tell you how much I love this!
I think that one of the big problems we have when it comes to engaging people in all things climate and sustainability is that as human beings we love to put each other into boxes. So I'm assuming that in the eyes of my friends and family I'm very firmly in the crusty green box. Despite my lack of yoghurt weaving skills. And everyone else kind of feels like the greenies are over there doing their fun green hobby, but it's nothing to do with me. They know what they're expecting to hear from us, and probably in many cases, either avoid conversations with us, or start to zone out a little. So when someone 'normal', a non greenie comedian, starts to talk about climate it somehow has much more impact, as it's not the usual suspects talking about this stuff - and that's hugely powerful.

We didn't talk about even half of the things I wanted to dive into. I omitted the most obvious question - how do you make the climate crisis funny? But I really hope that you enjoy this conversation. Right at the very end, Stuart talks about how stepping into the climate space, and starting to talk about climate in his work, wasn't as scary as he thought it would be! Which I would love to be the take home message from this episode. We might not all be stand up comedians, or confident public speakers, but we do all have something we can do, a particular skill set, a superpower that we might not even realise we have, that we can use, to play our part in the tackling the climate crisis.

What's yours...? 

Stuart Goldsmith

Stuart's climate comedy show Spoilers

• Stuart Goldsmith
  - Website
  - Climate stuff
  - Spoilers - dates and tickets for Stuart's climate comedy show
  - Podcast - The Comedian's Comedian
  - I Need You Alive - You Tube Special
  - Speaking
  - Facebook
  - Instagram
  - Twitter/X
  - Linked In
• The Ministry for the Future - Kim Stanley Robinson

In this week's episode I'm chatting to Misha Dhanak, CEO of Spacehive, the home of community fundraising. We're probably all familiar with the concept of crowdfunding and may have even funded products and projects on platforms like Kickstarter. Well Spacehive is a similar concept, it's a crowdfunding platform, but it's for community projects - so on there you will find things like a cricket club raising funds for new kit, or a town looking to create a rural arts hub. And as we will hear from Misha, there are a huge number of nature and climate projects too. Many of us might have ideas for projects that we would love to see happening in our local community - whether that's something like a regular repair cafe, solar panels on your kid's school, transforming a derelict bit of land into community garden, or something else entirely. But for most of us, those ideas stay in our heads as dreams, when the reality of trying to find the money to get it off the ground. This is where Spacehive comes in - they have helped to fund over 2000 projects, and raised over £30million for local projects, and they have they highest success rate of any crowdfunding platform with over 85% of their projects getting funded.

Misha talks in the podcast about 'small but mighty' projects and you will probably be able to tell from my reaction that I just love this! Many of the projects on Spacehive are small, they're not going to change the world, but they are going to change their local community. And with governments around the world failing to take the ambitious actions that we need to protect nature and the climate, community action is vital. And so many of the projects come with additional co-benefits, so the original intention might be supporting wildlife, or installing solar panels, but the ripple effects might be improved physical and mental health, or financial savings, and all of them will be bringing people in the local community together, to make where they live a little bit better.

I would love to hear if you have any ideas for local sustainable(ish) projects you'd love to get off the ground, and if this episode has made you feel a little bit braver about it, and possibly even launch your project on Spacehive! 

Enjoy!

Misha Dhanak

• Spacehive
  - Website
  - Make your Commitment
  - Facebook
  - Instagram
  - Twitter/X
  - Linked In
• Loop Frome
• Knepp Estate
• Going Wild in Holtwhistle
• Active Travel Festival Chester
• The Flower Bank
• Cirencester Open Air Pool Solar Panels
• Solar Energy for Fulham Good Neighbours
• Margate Crab Museum
• The Commitment
• Carbon Literacy training
• The Sustainable(ish) Clubhouse
  

In this week's episode I'm chatting to William Eccles from The Commitment.
The Commitment is a campaign asking us to commit to voting for a healthy planet. You do this by heading to their website, hitting the "make the commitment" button, and ticking the box that says “ I commit to vote only for politicians who work for urgent action on the climate and nature.”.
We discuss in the episode just why that is so important, and the really clever ways that they’re using your commitment to engage with MPs and give them a mandate to be braver in their calls and support for action on climate and nature.
As you’ll hear in the episode, when I came across the Commitment earlier this year, I stopped what I was doing and did just that. And then I shared it on social media asking other people to do the same. And the team at the Commitment were able to track the fact that me sharing meant other people stopped what they were doing and made their own commitment. But they know that lots of people get distracted in between hearing about something and actually doing it, so that number could have been so much higher.
I would LOVE it if this episode resulted in another 'mini surge' of commitments. There’s a point in the podcast where William invites you to pause the podcast and go and do it.
Last time I shared they had 27 people sign up – let’s see if we can smash that!
Enjoy!

William Eccles

GOOD NEWS!
In the new Good News section after the main interview, I share some of the good climate news happening (because there is some, I promise!). Here's this weeks pick:

• EVs have outsold diesel cars in the EU for the first time (Positive News on Instagram) 
• More UK universities cutting ties with fossil fuel industry (The Guardian)  
• And much closer to home... Libby in The Sustainable(ish) Clubhouse shared what she described as ‘not a big win', but I would beg to differ! Libby says: "Yesterday a local business offered out 3 bike racks on my Freecycle site and I quickly bagsied them (I assume they were replacing them with something better). A few messages and emails later and 2 local businesses will have these new (old) bike racks allowing their staff and customers cycle to them instead of driving." Absolutely loving this Libby!
  

• The Commitment
  - Website
  - Make your Commitment
  - Facebook
  - Instagram
  - Twitter/X
  - Linked In
  - TikTok
• William Eccles
  - Linked In
• An Inconvenient Truth - Al Gore
• The Uninhabitable Earth - David Wallace-Wells
• UN Biodiversity COPs
• Hope for the Future
• Green Alliance
• Climate Change - a very short introduction - Mark Maslin
• Outrage + Optimism - Moments of truth
• Environmental Voter Project
• Vote Climate
• Greenpeace's Project Climate Vote
• [086] - All things politics with Sian Berry
• Outrage + Optimism - COP28: The outcome is a signal
• Jon Richardson and the Futurenauts podcast
• Carbon Literacy training
• The Sustainable(ish) Clubhouse
• Crap-free Christmas course
  

The Commitment 

Advertising.
It's all around us. Persuading us to buy stuff we didn't know we wanted, telling us how much happier/more popular/better our lives will be with the latest/newest whatever it is.
Most of think that we're immune to it, but studies show just how insidious and manipulative it is, and how it influences our brains at a deep level. Which perhaps wouldn't really matter if we weren't in the grips of climate and ecological emergencies driven by our consumption of the very stuff being advertised to us.
Leo Murray is the co-founder and director of innovation at climate charity Possible, and the co-author of Badvertising - a book that is "raising the alarm on an industry that is making us both unhealthy and unhappy, and that is driving the planet to the precipice of environmental collapse in the process."
I've only read the first chapter of the book but already it's eye opening and shocking - Jeremy Vine's review of the book says "..if you thought your brain was being gently warmed by the advertising industry, read this book and you'll realise it's being fried'.
Leo is amazing and there is so much I wanted to chat to him about, as you can probably tell from the interview! We veered from chatting about some of the work that Possible is doing, to Badvertising and back again, so apologies in advance for my inability to keep on track - I hope you'll find it all interesting stuff! 

Leo Murray

GOOD NEWS!
In the new Good News section after the main interview, I share some of the good climate news happening (because there is some, I promise!). Here's this weeks pick:

• The USA (finally) agreed to quit coal (Positive News) 
• Wales puts bugs on the map (Positive News)  
• And much closer to home...
  I spent Monday in Weston-Super-Mare with 200 other people at the biggest ever in-person Carbon Literacy training. The day was organised by North Somerset Council, and I was blown away not only by their ambition to do it, AND their ability to pull it off! I was asked to do a guest speaker slot and it was an amazing experience, seeing so many people in one place, from all kinds of different businesses and organisations of all sizes, gathered together to learn and to take action. And this training was part of a wider 'Carbon Literacy Action Day' which saw over 1000 people taking part in Carbon Literacy training all around the world. It was incredible to be a part of, and a reminder that there are so many people and businesses out there taking really positive steps to reduce their emissions and be part of the solution!
  (If you're interested in Carbon Literacy training for 2024 - there are dates on the website here)
  

• Leo Murray
  - On Twitter
  - On Linked In
• Possible
  - Website
  - Facebook
  - Instagram
  - Twitter
  - Frequent flyer levy campaign
• Badvertising
  - Website
  - Book (shown on Wob as a more ethical alternative to Amazon!)
  - Write to your local council
• First transatlantic flight using 100% sustainable aviation fuel
• Nearly half the flights we take are unnecessary
• Climate equality: A planet for the 99%
• Advertising Standards Authority Green Claims Code
• SUV ad banned
• Bite Back
• Ad Free Cities
• Carbon Literacy training
• The Sustainable(ish) Clubhouse
• Crap-free Christmas course
  

Climate and play might not be two things that we naturally put together. And even less so, climate and 'playfulness'. Climate change is a huge, overwhelming, complext issue and i couldn't be more important. So we need to take this seriously and absolutely need to be bringing our best game, there's no room for messing around, right?
Maybe not!
I loved this chat with the brilliant Lucy Hawthorne, founder of Climate Play who is "making it safe, light and fun to face climate change". Lucy runs a range of workshops and programmes that help people work through emotions, information and actions associated with climate change. In this episode we discuss playfulness as a mindset and why that's so important when it comes to tackling big, serious issues like climate change.
You might think that Climate Play workshops, especially ones involving Lego are aimed at children, but that's very much not the case here - Lucy's workshops are for grown ups, and often grown ups working in proper grown up jobs in proper grown up companies. We talk about the importance of play, especially for adults - how it expands our minds, and puts us into a great, positive frame of mind, meaning we're at our best when attempting to tackle such big and complex issues as climate change. 
There was a phrase that Lucy used at one point during the conversation - something like using play to 'put a softer edges on things to be able to have the harder conversations' that really struck me. I know that I can get very caught up in the importance of this work and the pressure I put on myself to get it right, because so much is at stake. That can mean that I'm potentially pretty intense when I attempt any conversations around climate change and climate action! Allowing ourselves (myself) to experiment and be more playful with what works and what doesn't, letting go of a fear of failure, because we can't fail as we're just experimenting and trying some stuff out, is such an important mindset shift, and one that I'm going to try and embrace. Along with the idea of embracing and doing more of the things that bring us joy, and thinking about how we can do more of what we do with a (genuine!) smile on our faces. 
And speaking of big mindset shifts, look out for the brilliant one right at the end, where Lucy shares the power of simply swapping one simple word in our vocabulary, and how that can make us "more motivated, more likely to carry on doing it (climate action), and more likely to be smiling while I'm doing it."

Lucy Hawthorne

GOOD NEWS!
In the new Good News section after the main interview, I share some of the good climate news happening (because there is some, I promise!). Here's this weeks pick:

• Environment secretary to reconsider mandatory food waste reporting for businesses (Ends Report) 
• Second UK company appoints nature to the board (Positive News)  
• And much closer to home - some lovely feedback on Linked In on my Carbon Literacy course. 
  Nicola says "Proud of this one. Thank you to Jen at Sustainable(ish) for taking what I find to be a minefield and distilling it down to the individual level and how we can actually make a difference, with some small (or big) adjustments to our thinking and lifestyles. One of my pledges was to commit to one meat free meal a week, I initially thought I would struggle with this, but a few months down the line it has not been as bad as I was expecting. With this one act I'm helping to save nearly 100kgs of CO2 across the year. If, like me you find the climate situation we are facing a challenge to get your head around and you have the opportunity to undertake carbon literacy training, I highly recommend that you take it."
   
  

• Climate Play
  - Website
  - Linked In
  - Climate Play meet-up
• Lucy Hawthorne on Linked In
• Lego Serious Play
  
• Talking about climate change video
• Climate equality: a planet for the 99%
• Bananas Game - Dr Emma Fieldhouse
• Play by Stuart Brown
• Climate Change Coaching by Charly Cox and Sarah Flynn
• Carbon Literacy training
• The Sustainable(ish) Clubhouse
• Crap-free Christmas course