Hi. I'm Jennifer Woosley Saylor. I'm a licensed professional clinical counselor and the kid of a cop, and this is the podcast when the call hits home.

Hey, everyone. It's Ashlee Gethner. I'm a licensed clinical social worker, and I'm also a child of a police officer.

Welcome back to the podcast. I'm Jennifer.

And I'm Ashlee.

Welcome. Welcome. It is just Ashlee and I today. Why is it just us today? Because schedules are crazy, and all our other guests we've booked out, so it's just us today.

That's so true. We do have guests lined up, but we both have been working real hard these last few weeks. I I can't even believe we are in April at all.

Oh, I'm I'm I'm not okay with that. I need it to be, like, March. Like, that would be good with me if we could have just a couple more days in March before it's April.

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Ashlee [00:01:01]:

You know what we need to do? We need to do, like, the Ellen show, and, like, we need some we need some people who will just fill in for us sometimes.

Like, please sit on the podcast.

Like, can you just actually do this for us because we

have weird around it? Actually, I guess it will be me and the guest host because I have nothing better to do. I'm here for this podcast.

Stop it. Stop it. Stop

it. But

we are excited because we were talking this morning, kinda collecting our thoughts, and, wow, guys. Like, we are literally just a well, it's been a year. It's been one year since we started when the call hits home.

Which is wild. You know? We were talking about that beforehand, and this was just a little seed of an idea. You know, I think, Ashlee, you and I talked about a book. Like, that's where this started. It did. Thank god I didn't have to write a book. Probably you were thinking I just finished a PhD, and I had

to read all these books.

I wanna get some payback for, like, I'm gonna I'm just gonna read my book now. Oh. So I can't believe that this, like, little seed has approached to a little sapling now in terms of it being a year for us. And we were just talking about, like, what do we wanna talk about today, and, I'll speak for myself, Ashlee. I got pretty flooded. Like, we could talk about this. We could talk about that. We could talk about this.

We could talk about that. And so we just wanted to come on and talk about all the things. And I think I first wanna say is we wanna talk about what you guys want us to talk about. That's definitely what we're here for. We're here for you, the listeners. I mean, Ashlee and I can just talk all day. We just don't have to record it. So this really is about what you guys want to hear from us.

And one of the things that people have reached out about is kind of peer support is one of the things. Mhmm. Ashlee and I have talked about after Breeze episode, just talking more about, postpartum and what happens when we invite a baby into our homes and our lives. That's something we've talked about, financial wellness for first responders and the importance of this. Are you guys here in the spectrum of things that we're, like, trying Correct.

Yeah. I've also gotten such a slew of, like, retirement. Hey. What about our retired officers and firefighters and, you know, first responders? And I'm like, yeah. Officers and firefighters and, you know, first responders? And I'm like, yeah. That's so true. I mean, both of our dads are retired, so we do have that, but I think we we are just skimming the surface like it's been a year, and yet there is just so much out there that we still need to discuss and and circle back to. Right? Like, these conversations, they don't just end after one time.

No. Not at all. I think, again, I what's most recent right now is Bree's episode and talking about what that's like to be a new mom, which was so generous of her to come on and share that and the impact of that and being a first responders family. And so I'm just like, oh, we need to talk more about that for sure.

Yeah. And Bree's, episode, man, we just have to thank her real quick again because we got so many messages, just so many people reaching out. She did incredible. I think she just opened that book for a lot of people to be like, oh my goodness. Yeah. I need I need to talk about this or I need to hear this. I feel validated that someone else is feeling the things that I feel too. And then so I am just extremely grateful for that.

Absolutely. I mean, I'm appreciative to all our guests. That's for sure. And people that are volunteering and wanting to be on episodes, and people that, you know I mean, they're giving out the most valuable thing, which is time for us to talk about some pretty serious things at times as well. So

Absolutely. But, yeah, let's let's circle back. Let's start with the peer support stuff because Okay. Oh my gosh. I feel like my acids are so bad today. I'm sorry, everybody. Dang Invisalign.

I think you noticed more than anybody else, Ashlee.

Oh, I can see. I'm sitting here like, oh, boy. We did get a few messages about peer support and our thoughts on peer support. And I think that we have to be mindful because we're not. Like, we're Exactly. Connections. Right? So, like, I wanna put that out there. We are not peer support isn't necessarily our bread and butter.

I will say that it is something that I am most recently really diving into and having this incredible opportunity to look at different policies that have been created and different things that are being implemented throughout different departments. And everyone does it a little bit differently. I am a fan of peer support. That's a Absolutely. Fans of it. Of course, I am. Because as clinicians, we know that the number one thing we can do after a traumatic event, right, to help the brain start to process is to talk, and that's not always with us. I always say in my trainings, like, look to the person next to you and just start a conversation, and you're helping yourself.

So I do know that peer support is incredibly important, but I also recognize that with that comes a lot of hurdles and challenges for these departments. So, Jennifer, I don't know if you can speak a little bit about, like, your perspective on peer support or maybe even take it back a little bit. I think I jumped ahead of what peer support looks like sometimes for

people. Performance. Well, I appreciate what you're saying because the most important thing and something I always let any client that unless I have a therapist that's a client, is that I have no clue what it's like to do your job, and that is very true of first responders. I do not know what it's like to do a dispatcher, a police officer, a firefighter, a paramedic. Like, I have no background in that. And I think the peer piece is that when you get to talk to people who know the job, I think that that is the peer part. You know? I was at a meeting, with firefighters, and they're talking about the truck. And, man, that thing is awesome, and I have no clue.

And, like, they're explaining it to me. And, yeah, I have two firefighters together, and they they have their own shorthand and know that language. And so I think that's the the important part of peer support is just somebody that knows what it's like. I think and, you know, I wish we maybe had a little bit of a family therapist here to talk about systems and family systems and, you know, in departments, in firehouses, in dispatch rooms, you know, there are dynamics that show up. And sometimes those dynamics can really impact a peer support team. And so, unfortunately, I'm talking about a negative impact where, you know, there's somebody there that maybe didn't show up as a peer with the best support

Yep.

Or they showed up as a peer only representing the agency and not representing maybe what ends in the best needs. And, you know, I wanna give credit to the peers because that's a fine line to walk. Right? Like, you have to think about the whole at times and not just think about the individual. And so I think those are some hurdles or some hang ups that can happen with peer support. And so I think the most important thing in this is

where

do you feel like you can trust somebody?

Yeah. I was just about to say.

Okay. You go with that then.

Well well, because right? Like and I don't mean we will make sure to spin this because there's so many beautiful positives too, But there is truth to that. I think what I see mostly or what I hear in my office or even just the trainings that I do and talking to other first responders is, like, trust is huge, and yet there's such distrust within departments sometimes

that

people are like, no way am I gonna go talk to somebody that I know and give them everything because then the rumor mill is going to start or they're gonna break confidentiality, and they are going to say everything I told them, and people are really skeptical of that. However, right, like, that is where we need to push as clinicians for these departments to make sure that they are doing everything they can for a strong peer support team because that didn't happen.

Well and I think the again, you know, to definitely promote you in your business. But I think, you know, this partnership with a mental health professional and a peer system or peer support system is so ideal because, again, you know, to have the training about the importance of confidentiality, how do we active listen? How do we do these things and approach in a way that's nonjudgmental or advice giving or, you know, those things and support that peer system to offer that to people that are struggling and building that trust. You know, I think that that's a great kind of thing. And, obviously, that's a very biased opinion to say, oh, you know, a mental health professional along with a peer support team would be great. And I don't even think it has to necessarily be that, but I think that's a good example of how that can be really healthy. And and, you know, this is just from the perspective of hearing about unfortunate events that happen with peer teams. This is not us coming for peer teams at all. They're a beautiful grassroots organic way to support your team.

It's just we wanna make sure that those are healthy places.

Yeah. So I'm gonna I am gonna give a little bit of a plug here. And, again, I don't know everything. I work in the state of Wisconsin, and so every state kinda does things differently. One thing that I will say is that I have been blessed to work with departments, one in particular who has done a phenomenal job of building a strong peer support team. Like, I look to them and I'm like, man. Like but it took them a long time to get there. And not only that, they are very, very strict with it.

And so in this world that I run-in in Wisconsin, right, like, in order to have a peer support team be effective, they do require a mental health professional to be there. So I think a lot of people have heard of, like, CISM training.

Mhmm.

Right? When we run our debriefs and you have to get trained in that, like, you you have to have a mental health professional for that. And that's for a reason. Right? We have you guys, like, peer support. There's a fine line between being someone's peer and being someone's therapist, and that line can get blurred really, really quick. And that's why we encourage, obviously, a lot of departments, if they can, to find that mental health professional to help with this, because there's you don't wanna cross that line nor should you because you're up here, and that's the purpose of it. Right? And so it is so important to, not only that, but, like, vet your therapist. Introduce them. Yes.

Like, I got interrogated when I tell you that I got three people in my office at one time shooting questions off at me to see if I was good enough to be a therapist for these police departments around here, that's what happened. Right? And every single time someone new discovers me, they send a few of their people that come do the same thing, and I and I love it. But that your therapist but, yeah, you have I I do think, like, in order to have that successful, like, broad spectrum, if you want something huge, you have to network and you have to make those connections because it is hard to manage, I think, like, peer support on its own without being like, okay. Now where do I send these people for resources if it gets

there? Right.

Right?

Absolutely. And I think that, you know, it's this kind of triage level as well too and knowing the difference of that. You know, there is somebody that is just going through some growing pains with their career or having just a little bit of a stressful situation at home, they can go speak to a peer and, like, done and dusted, like, things are good. And then there's other times where it's it's a crisis. You know? And sadly, it's a crisis. Like, they need to go to a hospital and because they're not safe. Like, I I mean, there's this level of of need, and all of those things need different supports