When The Call Hits Home

By Dr. Ashlee Gethner, DSW, LCSW & Jennifer Woosley, LPCC SMental Health

When The Call Hits Home episodes

May 13 Finding Balance: Combating Burnout and Setting Boundaries for First Responders
In this heartfelt and honest episode, Jennifer and Ashlee sit down—just the two of them—to discuss the realities of balancing their professional and personal lives, the challenges of burnout, and how these impact their work on the podcast. They explore the importance of boundaries, self-care, and reprioritizing, all while remaining committed to supporting first responder families.

Key Topics & Highlights
A Peek Into Ashlee’s World
The Struggle to Balance
Recognizing Burnout
The Importance of Boundaries
Family, Guilt & Saying No
Self-Care Strategies
Book Recommendation
A Change to the Podcast Schedule

Resources Mentioned
Book: Burnout: The Secret to Unlocking the Stress Cycle by Emily & Amelia Nagoski

Listener Takeaways
Burnout is real, and boundaries are essential.
Self-care isn’t selfish—it makes you better at supporting others.
It’s okay to say no; your relationships (professional and personal) should withstand honest boundaries.

Programming Note

The podcast will shift to a monthly release schedule starting next month. Thank you for understanding and continuing to support this community!
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#WhenTheCallHitsHome #FirstResponderFamily #CenturionsPath #Therapists #PodcastCollab #SupportFirstResponders #FamilyOfCops #MentalHealthAwareness #PodcastCommunity #FeaturedGuests
________________________________________
This podcast does not contain medical / health advice. It is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical or mental health advice, diagnosis or treatment and should not be relied on as health or personal advice.
The information contained in this podcast is for general information purposes only. The information is provided by Training Velocity LLC and while we endeavor to keep the information up to date and correct, we make no representations or warranties of any kind, express or implied, about the completeness, accuracy, reliability, suitability or availability with respect to the Podcast or the information, products, services, or related graphics contained in the podcast for any purpose. Any reliance you place on such information is strictly at your own risk.
WE ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE NOR LIABLE FOR ANY ADVICE, COURSE OF TREATMENT, DIAGNOSIS OR ANY OTHER INFORMATION, SERVICES OR PRODUCTS THAT YOU OBTAIN THROUGH THIS PODCAST.
Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health care provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition or treatment and before undertaking a new health care regimen, and never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on this podcast.
27 min
April 29 WTCHH Joins Centurions Path: Sharing First Responder Family Insights
Welcome back to When The Call Hits Home! In this special mini episode, Jennifer and Ashlee share some exciting news— they were recently featured on the Centurion's Path podcast! 🎉

Join us as we talk about our experiences both as therapists and as kids of cops, and the importance of community and supporting first responders and their families. We encourage all our listeners to check out our episode (Episode 23) on the Centurion's Path podcast with John, Mike, and AJ. Listen in as we bridge two incredible podcasts and keep the conversation going about the unsung heroes behind the badge.

Apple Podcasts:
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-23-the-reality-of-first-responder-families/id1707907881?i=1000755583011

Spotify:https://open.spotify.com/episode/7EhzfAHkzmzhD30kOtYxfl?si=7aKarHI1TQCK8yy_eA4BMA
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mk3lAtWxvCgDon't forget to subscribe, and stay tuned— we’ll be back with new content in two weeks!🌟 Don’t forget to like, comment with your questions for the upcoming conference, and subscribe for more heartfelt conversations!For any questions or inquiries regarding this video, please reach out to [email protected]
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• Facebook -https://www.facebook.com/whenthecallhitshome
• Twitter - https://x.com/WTCHHOfficial
• Instagram -https://www.instagram.com/whenthecallhitshome/
• YouTube - @WhenTheCallHitsHome
• Our Website! - https://whenthecallhitshome.com/
--------------------------------------------------------------------#WhenTheCallHitsHome #FirstResponderFamily #CenturionsPath #Therapists #PodcastCollab #SupportFirstResponders #FamilyOfCops #MentalHealthAwareness #PodcastCommunity #FeaturedGuests
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This podcast does not contain medical / health advice. It is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical or mental health advice, diagnosis or treatment and should not be relied on as health or personal advice.
The information contained in this podcast is for general information purposes only. The information is provided by Training Velocity LLC and while we endeavor to keep the information up to date and correct, we make no representations or warranties of any kind, express or implied, about the completeness, accuracy, reliability, suitability or availability with respect to the Podcast or the information, products, services, or related graphics contained in the podcast for any purpose. Any reliance you place on such information is strictly at your own risk.
WE ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE NOR LIABLE FOR ANY ADVICE, COURSE OF TREATMENT, DIAGNOSIS OR ANY OTHER INFORMATION, SERVICES OR PRODUCTS THAT YOU OBTAIN THROUGH THIS PODCAST.
Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health care provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition or treatment and before undertaking a new health care regimen, and never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on this podcast.
5 min
April 15Burnout in First Responders: Warning Signs You Shouldn’t Ignore
Hosts:
Dr. Ashlee Gethner, LCSW – Child of a Police Officer
Jennifer Woosley Saylor, LPCC S – Child of a Police Officer

Episode Overview
In this episode of When the Call Hits Home, Jennifer and Ashlee are back after some time away and dive into a real, honest conversation about burnout in first responders. From conference insights to personal experiences, this episode highlights how stress builds and how our bodies often send warning signs before we’re ready to listen.
Ashlee shares her experience attending a international conference and what stood out most, including the science behind decision-making in high-pressure situations and the reality of how quickly first responders are forced to act. The conversation also explores decision fatigue, impatience, and how the job impacts life at home.
The episode takes a personal turn as Ashlee opens up about being forced to slow down after getting sick, missing an important trip, and realizing just how much she had been pushing herself. This leads into an important discussion about how burnout often starts with physical symptoms and why so many first responders ignore those early signs.
Together, Jennifer and Ashlee break down what burnout actually looks like, how it shows up in the body and behavior, and why rest isn’t optional.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:
• How quickly first responders must make life-changing decisions
• What decision fatigue looks like at work and at home
• The connection between stress, the brain, and the body
• Early physical signs of burnout (before emotional symptoms appear)
• Why first responders often ignore or push through burnout
• The importance of boundaries, rest, and listening to your body
Key Takeaways:
• Burnout doesn’t start with a breakdown—it starts with subtle warning signs
• Physical symptoms (fatigue, illness, headaches) are often the first red flags
• High-performing individuals are more likely to ignore burnout
• Rest is not a luxury—it’s necessary for long-term health and performance
• You can’t pour from an empty cup
Resources & Support:
If you or someone you know is struggling, consider reaching out to a trusted peer, supervisor, or mental health professional who understands first responder culture.

Thank you for being part of our community. From hard-hitting topics to laugh-out-loud moments, we’re here with you because when the call hits home, you’re never alone.

Follow Us:
- Facebook: When The Call Hits Home Podcast
- Instagram: @whenthecallhitshome
- Whenthecallhitshome.com
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This podcast does not contain medical / health advice. It is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical or mental health advice, diagnosis or treatment and should not be relied on as health or personal advice.
The information contained in this podcast is for general information purposes only. The information is provided by Training Velocity LLC and while we endeavour to keep the information up to date and correct, we make no representations or warranties of any kind, express or implied, about the completeness, accuracy, reliability, suitability or availability with respect to the Podcast or the information, products, services, or related graphics contained in the podcast for any purpose. Any reliance you place on such information is strictly at your own risk.
WE ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE NOR LIABLE FOR ANY ADVICE, COURSE OF TREATMENT, DIAGNOSIS OR ANY OTHER INFORMATION, SERVICES OR PRODUCTS THAT YOU OBTAIN THROUGH THIS PODCAST.
Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health care provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition or treatment and before undertaking a new health care regimen, and never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on this podcast.
31 min
February 25Inside ILEETA: Exploring International Law Enforcement, Mental Health, and Family Support
Hosts:
Dr. Ashlee Gethner, LCSW – Child of a Police Officer
Jennifer Woosley Saylor, LPCC S – Child of a Police Officer
Episode Overview
In this episode, Jennifer and Ashlee dive into an exciting new adventure as they prep for their involvement with ILEETA - the International Law Enforcement Educators and Training Association. They share behind-the-scenes details about being invited to present and record live at the upcoming conference, their hopes for connecting with first responders from around the globe, and what it means for their podcast community.

While Jennifer reveals a bit of FOMO about missing the conference because of family commitments, Ashlee discusses the nerves and honor of representing the show in a live podcasting arena. They reflect on their show's growth, the importance of including first responder families in the conversation, and how culture and location shape the first responder experience from Texas to Wisconsin to Sweden!

This episode is filled with humor, heartfelt stories (like cowboy boot adventures and clever firefighter date tricks), and genuine curiosity. Jennifer and Ashlee encourage listeners to send in questions and feedback, making this a truly interactive season for "When The Call Hits Home."

Key Topics Covered
The honor (and anxiety) of presenting and podcasting live at ILITA’s international conference
ILEETA explained: what it stands for and why it matters for law enforcement education globally
The vital role families play in first responder mental health and community
Contrasts and similarities across first responder experiences from different U.S. states to international cultures
The importance of wraparound wellness: addressing not just mental health, but physical fitness, financial well-being, and more

Send in your questions, topics, and experiences!
Jennifer and Ashlee want to include listener voices in their conference coverage—don't be shy!

Grab your show merch and represent When The Call Hits Home as the podcast steps onto the global stage!

Share the show with friends, family, and anyone in the first responder community.

Got questions or feedback for the live episodes? Reach out via our usual channels or social media!
Interested in learning more about ILEETA or getting your organization involved? Let us know, and we'll provide information during our live coverage.

Thank you for being part of our community. From hard-hitting topics to laugh-out-loud moments, we’re here with you because when the call hits home, you’re never alone.
Follow Us:
- Facebook: When The Call Hits Home Podcast
- Instagram: @whenthecallhitshome
- Whenthecallhitshome.com
---
This podcast does not contain medical / health advice. It is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical or mental health advice, diagnosis or treatment and should not be relied on as health or personal advice.
The information contained in this podcast is for general information purposes only. The information is provided by Training Velocity LLC and while we endeavour to keep the information up to date and correct, we make no representations or warranties of any kind, express or implied, about the completeness, accuracy, reliability, suitability or availability with respect to the Podcast or the information, products, services, or related graphics contained in the podcast for any purpose. Any reliance you place on such information is strictly at your own risk.
WE ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE NOR LIABLE FOR ANY ADVICE, COURSE OF TREATMENT, DIAGNOSIS OR ANY OTHER INFORMATION, SERVICES OR PRODUCTS THAT YOU OBTAIN THROUGH THIS PODCAST.
Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health care provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition or treatment and before undertaking a new health care regimen, and never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on this podcast.
22 min
February 11 Breaking The Stigma: EMDR, Leadership, & Mental Health for First Responders
Hosts:
Dr. Ashlee Gethner, LCSW – Child of a Police Officer
Jennifer Woosley Saylor, LPCC S – Child of a Police Officer

Guest:
Chief Deputy Justin Miller, Kenosha Sheriff’s Office
Episode Summary
In this heartfelt episode, Chief Deputy Justin Miller returns to talk with Ashlee and Jennifer about leadership, mental health, and breaking stigma in first responder communities. The conversation dives deeply into Justin's personal journey using EMDR (Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing) therapy, how sharing vulnerability can transform departmental culture, and exciting news about their upcoming presentation at the International Law Enforcement Educators and Trainers Conference (ILEETA).
Key Topics & HighlightsLeadership & Vulnerability: Chief Deputy Miller emphasizes leading by example, sharing his own mental health journey, and the importance of vulnerability in building trust within his department.
EMDR Therapy: Ashlee and Jennifer discuss the impact of EMDR and how it’s not just for job-related trauma, but often for deeply personal experiences. Chief Deputy Miller shares his powerful story processing grief and trauma through EMDR, describing the emotional catharsis and lasting changes.
Breaking the Stigma: The group addresses common fears around mental health programs for first responders -especially the worries about confidentiality, losing a job, or being seen as weak. Chief Deputy Miller advocates open dialogue, personal storytelling, and changing the culture to make wellness "the norm."
Department Initiatives: Launching "neck up checkups"- annual mental health check-ins. High participation reflects growing trust and normalization of mental wellness.
Upcoming Conference: Chief Deputy Miller and Ashlee (Dr. G) will co-present at ILEETA, sharing their department’s model for clinical and administrative partnership in crisis response.
Bonus: "When The Call Hits Home" will be podcasting live throughout the week at the conference, expanding their reach to thousands of international law enforcement professionals.
Thank you for tuning in! Don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review "When The Call Hits Home" on your favorite podcast platforms!

Follow Us:
- Facebook: When The Call Hits Home Podcast
- Instagram: @whenthecallhitshome
- Whenthecallhitshome.com
---
This podcast does not contain medical / health advice. It is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical or mental health advice, diagnosis or treatment and should not be relied on as health or personal advice.
The information contained in this podcast is for general information purposes only. The information is provided by Training Velocity LLC and while we endeavour to keep the information up to date and correct, we make no representations or warranties of any kind, express or implied, about the completeness, accuracy, reliability, suitability or availability with respect to the Podcast or the information, products, services, or related graphics contained in the podcast for any purpose. Any reliance you place on such information is strictly at your own risk.
WE ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE NOR LIABLE FOR ANY ADVICE, COURSE OF TREATMENT, DIAGNOSIS OR ANY OTHER INFORMATION, SERVICES OR PRODUCTS THAT YOU OBTAIN THROUGH THIS PODCAST.
Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health care provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition or treatment and before undertaking a new health care regimen, and never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on this podcast.
45 min
January 28 Dark Nights of the Soul: From Tragedy to Post-Traumatic Growth
Hosts:

Dr. Ashlee Gethner, LCSW – Child of a Police Officer
Jennifer Woosley Saylor, LPCC S – Child of a Police Officer

Guests:
AJ DeAndrea - Retired Police Officer
Madalena DeAndrea - Senior Manager of Strategic Projects, Recovery, and Resiliency for Jeffco Public Schools, Child of a Police OfficerEpisode Overview
In this powerful episode, hosts Ashlee and Jennifer welcome father-daughter duo AJ DeAndrea and Madalena DeAndrea for a conversation that weaves together generational lessons on resiliency, mental health, and the impact of trauma both personally and professionally.
AJ DeAndrea, a retired deputy chief from Arvada, Colorado, shares his experience as a first responder involved in multiple high-profile incidents, including three school shootings. His career reflections highlight not only the professional complexities of law enforcement but the lasting effects these events have on families.
Madalena DeAndrea gives listeners a deeply personal account of surviving the Borderline Bar and Grill shooting in Thousand Oaks, California. She discusses how growing up as the daughter of a police officer shaped her own resiliency, practical safety skills, and approach toward post-traumatic growth. With openness, she details her healing journey—how agency, small actionable steps, and the support of her family and trusted professionals helped her move from trauma toward recovery and growth.
Together, the DeAndreas discuss the importance of age-appropriate openness with family about traumatic events, the evolution of mental health support within law enforcement, and their commitment to sharing these insights across the country.
Thank you for tuning in! Don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review "When The Call Hits Home" on your favorite podcast platforms!

Follow Us:
- Facebook: When The Call Hits Home Podcast
- Instagram: @whenthecallhitshome
- Whenthecallhitshome.com
---
This podcast does not contain medical / health advice. It is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical or mental health advice, diagnosis or treatment and should not be relied on as health or personal advice.
The information contained in this podcast is for general information purposes only. The information is provided by Training Velocity LLC and while we endeavour to keep the information up to date and correct, we make no representations or warranties of any kind, express or implied, about the completeness, accuracy, reliability, suitability or availability with respect to the Podcast or the information, products, services, or related graphics contained in the podcast for any purpose. Any reliance you place on such information is strictly at your own risk.
WE ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE NOR LIABLE FOR ANY ADVICE, COURSE OF TREATMENT, DIAGNOSIS OR ANY OTHER INFORMATION, SERVICES OR PRODUCTS THAT YOU OBTAIN THROUGH THIS PODCAST.
Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health care provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition or treatment and before undertaking a new health care regimen, and never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on this podcast.
58 min
January 14Post-Traumatic Stress & Growth: Healing, Resiliency, and Hope for First Responder Families
Hosts:

Dr. Ashlee Gethner, LCSW – Child of a Police Officer
Jennifer Woosley Saylor, LPCC S – Child of a Police Officer

Episode Overview

It's the kickoff to 2026 for "When The Call Hits Home"! Jennifer and Ashlee reunite after the holidays each with a few survival stories to share about sick kids, hospital visits, and football games. This episode takes a deep dive into mental health in the world of first responders, focusing on Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) and the concept of Post Traumatic Growth.

Key Topics Discussed
PTSD: Clinical & Real-World Definitions
What PTSD means according to the diagnostic manual, how its definition and understanding have evolved.
Early understanding of trauma as mainly war or abuse, contrasted with today’s broader view (cumulative events, “big T” and “little T” trauma).
Common symptoms: not just flashbacks & nightmares also avoidance, numbness, irritability, concentration issues, and impulsivity.
First Responders & Mental Health
Unique challenges faced, stigma around seeking help, and how even “expected” work-related trauma can have serious mental health impacts.
Barriers to mental health support historically, and how policy is slowly catching up (e.g. recognizing PTSD as a compensable injury).
The Power of Resilience & Growth
Resilience as “bouncing back” – Rocky Balboa style!
Introduction to Post Traumatic Growth: moving beyond survival to genuine transformation.
Five domains of post traumatic growth:
Appreciation of life
Relationships with others
New possibilities
Personal strength
Spiritual change
Real-world examples of first responders not just surviving trauma, but thriving and inspiring meaningful change in themselves and their communities.
Family Matters
How PTSD and growth impact the family dynamics of first responders; encouragement for family-wide healing and mutual support.
Personal stories, including the hosts’ own experiences as children of first responders.
Therapy: Beyond Diagnosis
The importance of not just earning diagnoses, but focusing on recovery, growth, and positive psychology.
Shout-outs to the transformative process of therapy and the courage it takes to seek help.
A Symbolic Reflection
The Japanese art of Kintsugi, repairing broken pottery with gold, serves as metaphor for healing: your flaws and brokenness can become strengths and sources of beauty.

Don’t Forget
Shop the merch store for some WTCHH swag!
Stay tuned for exciting announcements and new episodes in the new year.
If this episode resonated with you, please share your thoughts and stories with us - we love hearing from you!
For questions or more info, reach out to the hosts, and remember: When the call hits home, Jennifer and Ashlee are here for you.
Thank you for tuning in! Don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review "When The Call Hits Home" on your favorite podcast platforms!
Follow Us:
- Facebook: When The Call Hits Home Podcast
- Instagram: @whenthecallhitshome
- Whenthecallhitshome.com
---
This podcast does not contain medical / health advice. It is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical or mental health advice, diagnosis or treatment and should not be relied on as health or personal advice.
The information contained in this podcast is for general information purposes only. The information is provided by Training Velocity LLC and while we endeavour to keep the information up to date and correct, we make no representations or warranties of any kind, express or implied, about the completeness, accuracy, reliability, suitability or availability with respect to the Podcast or the information, products, services, or related graphics contained in the podcast for any purpose. Any reliance you place on such information is strictly at your own risk.
WE ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE NOR LIABLE FOR ANY ADVICE, COURSE OF TREATMENT, DIAGNOSIS OR ANY OTHER INFORMATION, SERVICES OR PRODUCTS THAT YOU OBTAIN THROUGH THIS PODCAST.
Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health care provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition or treatment and before undertaking a new health care regimen, and never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on this podcast.
31 min
December 17, 2025 Coping with Holiday Stress: Real Stories & Tips for First Responder Families
Jennifer [00:00:00]:
There is so much pressure on us to get so much done and so many more demands. And sometimes it's just saying no. That ability to say, like, hey, I can't go to the 12 Christmas parties. Welcome back to the podcast.
Ashlee [00:00:16]:
This is Jennifer and I'm Ashlee. It's us again.
Jennifer [00:00:19]:
It is us again.
Jennifer [00:00:21]:
Holiday season.
Jennifer [00:00:23]:
It is. It's a busy holiday season, but as usual, I'm glad it's just us. And we're excited for our special guests that we'll have back on the pod. But we were debating in terms of, like, gosh, it's the busy season, and I think we should talk about the seasons of the holidays and what that represents for us. Just kind of go from there, I think, is what we're going to start with.
Jennifer [00:00:44]:
Yeah, absolutely. It's a hard poll. We were both a little bit like, do we make everyone wait till the new year for some new episodes? Or then we were both sitting here talking about our experiences in terms of the holidays, how. How it relates to us working. And we both realize that, well, the holidays are actually. They're not just a stressful time for us. They're a stressful time for probably every single one of our listeners. And more so our first responders.
Jennifer [00:01:09]:
Right. They don't get that day off. Some of them don't. They don't get to be home with their families. I think there's a lot that goes into that.
Jennifer [00:01:15]:
There is. And I don't know, I mean, I just think from, like, inside baseball, I feel like that I always get a little bit busier as a therapist around the holidays, be it the approaching holiday or people's New Year's resolutions in January. And I think that the holidays bring up a lot of different things for people. You know, I think that there's plenty of holiday cheer and we always want to celebrate that. But I also think the reality of sometimes that there are things that the holidays brings that is hard. For example, I think something that can be hard with the holidays is if we're a new grieving family, like, if we've lost a family member and this is our first holiday, holiday season without them. Like, it kind of can feel so foreign and different, and traditions that we were looking forward to can be sad and can be hard.
Jennifer [00:02:09]:
Absolutely.
Jennifer [00:02:10]:
I think it's also the aspect which, you know, you pointed this out, Ashlee, is that not all our first responders get to celebrate the holidays. And sometimes it's just another day because they have work and trying to cover down time where a lot of people are Asking for time off. Yeah.
Jennifer [00:02:27]:
Oh, that's true too. Right. I guess I didn't even think about the shift changing, the people who do want time off, not being able to either get it or people being forced because of that. Right. Like, so there's a little bit of negativity that can sometimes come along with that. I do think that there is some truth to. Like you said, I do want to hit on this positive aspect of it too, because as you were talking about that something that came to my mind was my very favorite thing. Well, I feel nervous about saying this, so I'm going to have to pivot a little bit, but like, oh, okay.
Jennifer [00:02:56]:
Right when I was about to say it, I was like, maybe I shouldn't say this. My very favorite thing was shop with a cop. My dad let us be very active in that. My dad played a very big role in shop with the cop with his department. And he often was the big man, if you know what I'm saying. Like, my luck, someone's listening. And I'm not looking to. I'm not looking to destroy lives today.
Jennifer [00:03:15]:
Right. Looking to. To give it how it is all still believe.
Jennifer [00:03:20]:
And so that was one of my very favorite things because my dad would allow us girls to go and then my, My niece actually got to participate in it too. And it was such a learning experience for me as a child of a first responder. One, just to be so grateful for everything that I do have and how to give back to the community. But two, to see my dad in that role. Because again, we think of our first responders a lot of the times. Police.
Jennifer [00:03:42]:
Right.
Jennifer [00:03:43]:
We see them as their uniform. But if there's one thing about my dad is like, he loves so hard and so like, him being able to do that and to give back, especially with kids, like, it was so touching to see and it was something that I know he loved very, very much.
Jennifer [00:03:57]:
Yeah.
Jennifer [00:03:58]:
And so I, I do want to give a shout out to that because I do think there is a little bit in December where we see, like, more positive news about first responders because of the awesome things that they're trying to do for, for their communities around the holiday.
Jennifer [00:04:11]:
Right. Well, and I think about that too, in terms of when you're responding to people on their worst days and getting to have a moment of just getting to do something fun, you know, not having to write somebody a speeding ticket or have to show up to somebody's home that's caught on fire or, you know, give somebody cpr, been in a car accident. Like, you get to do something that's just fun and enjoyable for the community.
Jennifer [00:04:39]:
And I have to laugh. Like, what are you talking? But none of them even get out of their squads when. When it's a holiday, they're like, oh, sorry, cannot. I always crack up. I'm like, everyone speed today. The day is the day. Most of them are not getting out. No, I'm just kidding.
Jennifer [00:04:55]:
But I always remember that with my dad, and I always be like, dad doesn't matter. And he's like, I'm not ruining someone's Christmas. Like, so. That's so funny. But I think you also bring up a good point. And I hate to turn this negative. I don't want this episode to be negative. But I really think it's important to highlight the fact that as clinicians, we hear a lot.
Jennifer [00:05:15]:
And something super important to me is honestly just the educational aspect of. And we talk a lot about the brain. We talk about trauma. But the holidays can be. We say it's hard for them because they're working, but for first responders, it can be so hard because they can go through a traumatic experience on the job. And because it's linked to a holiday. Like, say it happens on a holiday. Say somebody gets into a car wreck on Christmas Eve, right? And.
Jennifer [00:05:41]:
And they're that first responder that now has to tell the family, like, they're not going to be there. That can really ruin holidays for our first responders. And I. I hear it a lot in my office. Jennifer, I don't know about you, but the minute the brain makes the connection and the holidays is one. Because we, as humans, we love holidays, right? Like, the minute it makes that connection, those memories stick with us for a very long time.
Jennifer [00:06:04]:
Oh, and I just kind of want to say, like, I appreciate. Well, I don't want to bring us down, but I think part of this and why you and I started this little podcast was just about wanting to be honest about the downside of the different things that we experience. And I think that when we talk about these things that are heavier or harder, it can somehow feel like we can take a breath, because I'm not alone struggling with the holidays, and nobody gets that I had this awful thing happen, to your point, on Christmas Eve, on New Year's Eve, and it happened 10 years ago, and I can be here celebrating with my family and wanting to enjoy it, and it can be this kind of black cloud that kind of sits on the day. And to speak about the brain, there's a part of our brain that Loves organizations and dates and memories, and we like to put things in boxes. And so an anniversary that's connected to a holiday, it does sink a little bit lower. That's something that I think when my dad was on the podcast and we shared about Sandra Guevara, his experience, that actually happened on my mom's birthday. And so it is this horrible thing that then gets connected with this date. And so I think that that can really show up around the holidays.
Jennifer [00:07:24]:
And I think what's hard too with the holidays is that it's a season. You know, it's not Valentine's Day. That's one day that comes and goes. There is this build up to. And even with other holidays as well, you know, like Hanukkah, like, it's this build up to this day, and then it's multiple days, or with Christmas, it is this build up into that holiday. So I think that, that it, like I said, it can just kind of be in the atmosphere a little bit more than just, okay, here comes the day. And I know for some people, especially again, those first holidays that we have, or that first experience where it's a year later from this, you know, traumatic call I had to make, it can be this buildup of, what's this day gonna be? You know, what is this holiday gonna look like now that it's different?
Jennifer [00:08:16]:
And the brain is tricky, right? So the brain doesn't necessarily scream like, this is why I'm feeling this way all the time. And so it's. Even for some people, it's even this buildup of just like feeling off or feeling anxious or feeling. Feeling irritable because of the holidays. But really when it's tied to something, right? Like, it's very common for that to happen when anniversaries come around, right? We can feel that and sometimes we don't realize it. And our first responders, I think, will be the first to tell us that, right? Like, I have had all these things. I'm fine, I compartmentalized it. Yet here's the holiday coming.
Jennifer [00:08:51]:
Something tragic happened, and I just, I hate Christmas. I've heard that so many times.
Jennifer [00:08:56]:
I. Well, and I think that that is such a reality. You know, I think the busyness of the season is stressful and, like, who has time to sit down and think, like, why am I feeling lousy right now? And just that whole thing of I hate Christmas. And, you know, not to do another shameless plug for therapy here on this podcast, but I mean, I think it is that stuff of. And going back to an Old episode. I think, you know, Jeremy Davis, when he was on the podcast, talking about, you have to be able to sit with those things and explore those things. They're important. And yet it's a busy time.
Jennifer [00:09:34]:
It doesn't feel like there's time. I gotta have holiday performances to go to, and again, more coverage because people are out and holiday shopping and holiday parties and all of those things. It gets really hard.
Jennifer [00:09:49]:
Yeah. And what I hear when you say that, I'm going to be honest, like, I'm. Man, I'm. My clinician brain just goes back to, like, this feeling of guilt. I think a lot comes up. Guilt is huge in my office.
Jennifer [00:10:01]:
Yeah.
Jennifer [00:10:02]:
You know, and it doesn't have to be. It could be I feel guilty for not helping in this way, but also, like, I feel guilty because I'm maybe not as present during the holiday season with my own family, given just what I'm going through. Right.
Jennifer [00:10:13]:
But I do think that is hard. And I think that sometimes people. It's easier to show up in those other ways and harder to show up sometimes for our families.
Jennifer [00:10:23]:
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And I think that's something really important, too. One, we don't want to forget that there's normalcy to those feelings. Right. So, like, if we do feel a little more agitated around the holidays, if we do have a call, we go right back to and we feel ourselves a little bit more distant or anxious. That's normal. That's a normal reaction.
Jennifer [00:10:45]:
It absolutely is. And so I think that ability to just give ourselves the grace and meet ourselves where we're at is totally important there. You know, if you're a Grinch, you're a Grinch. That can be it.
Jennifer [00:10:58]:
First off, the Grinch was so valid, though. He was kind of valid. He was bullied. I can go on forever. I love that man. Anyway.
Jennifer [00:11:06]:
Yeah. But I think to acknowledge, like, you don't have to be fake. You don't have to, this is my fault. Favorite time of year, and how wonderful it is if that's not where you're at. And then I think when we're able to acknowledge that and say, hey, this is where I'm at, it usually allows us to show up in a more sincere way with the people we care about. It's a hard time. It's a hard season. For whatever reason, acknowledging that, giving ourselves kind of that space and a little bit of that chance to catch our breath, I think that allows us to say, okay, this is how I do want to show up for my kiddo who loves the holiday or for my spouse who is doing a lot to make sure things are magical for people, you know, whatever that point is, I think that that is important.
Jennifer [00:11:57]:
And seasons. Seasons change. I think sometimes that can be helpful too, to recognize it is a temporary season.
Jennifer [00:12:05]:
I think that's actually something that we miss a lot. We are. When we are feeling and we're sitting in it, it feels awful. And when we feel awful, it feels like it's awful forever. And we let. Yes, and we let those cognitive distortions. Right. Which to me are definitions to our irrational thoughts.
Jennifer [00:12:23]:
A lot of the times, if I can break that down as simple as possible and correct me if you have a different definition, but it's the easiest way to do it on here right now. And we let those take over and we forget that so much of us, like so much of what's happening really is only temporary. One, we change a lot as humans, but two, just time in general.
Jennifer [00:12:41]:
Yeah. I like to call that stinking thinking. That's how I boil it.
Jennifer [00:12:45]:
I love that.
Jennifer [00:12:46]:
Yeah. And those negative thoughts and how those negative thoughts can really pile on themselves. So again, like
26 min
December 03, 2025 Understanding EMDR: A Therapy Approach for First Responders
Jennifer [00:00:00]:
First responders will say, I was just in the parking lot at Walmart and I needed to go in and I'm having this large physical reaction. That's because that amygdala talk about not being online, that amygdala has this kind of memory and this connection immediately with their body. And so EMDR does this great job and I say speaking amane, speaking to our amygdala through, through our physical body. You know, with emdr, you're doing a lot of check ins of notice what you notice in your body doing body scan, starting of the top of your head to the bottom of your toes. You know what do you notice? Do you notice tension? Do you notice relaxation? Do you notice numbness? Do you notice nothing? Like all those things are ways in which we're trying to get that to not let ourselves go offline. To use your. Hi, welcome back to the podcast. I'm Jennifer.
Ashlee [00:00:55]:
And I'm Ashlee. We hope everybody had a really great Thanksgiving.
Jennifer [00:00:59]:
Yes, we do. We do hope everyone has a good Thanksgiving and we appreciate you checking out our thankful episode. And it's just us again. We are doing things a little bit different here lately, but I like it when it's just you and I sometimes.
Ashlee [00:01:13]:
I know I kind of love it. I think people forget like everyone has lives and of course scheduling and things like that. But we are blessed. I mean we are super blessed. We have some really cool things lined up and honestly, like, it's really nice over the holidays not to have to worry about 1 million schedules. And just us too.
Jennifer [00:01:31]:
That is the truth. I was on a text message chain about people trying to meet and I'm like, we're really going to try to meet before January. No, like that's just not going to happen. So. And we have a specific thing we wanted to talk about today, which is emdr.
Ashlee [00:01:49]:
Yeah. And I think that I want to preference something that came to me when we were trying to brainstorm. Hey, what do we talk about today? Right? Like what do we give our audience? Something that I think we fall short on when we're talking about therapy in general is that a lot of people have one thought process and if there is something that I can say is that both of us are making waves and changing the stigma, especially with first responders coming to therapy. I still almost every day get the cliche of like, well, I thought therapy was, hey, tell me how this makes you feel over and over again. The whole come in my office, all my officers, my firefighters too. But I feel like my firefighters give me A little bit less grief. But hey, my police for sure will be like, oh, where's the big comfy couch that I get to lay on? And I'm like, okay, this, this is not, you know, But I've also been doing a heck of a lot of ride alongs, which is beautiful because one thing I always strive for in this, I guess, this career is that I never want to stop Lear from them too. So one way I do that is to ride along with them.
Ashlee [00:02:53]:
And in that ride along, I am doing nothing clinically. Of course, if we're stuck in a squad together for eight hours, I'm going to talk to you because I'm just a talker, but I'm there to learn from you. I'm there to just be excited about what's going on. I'm not there to diagnose or evaluate or what have you the person I'm riding with. And I get that every single time. They'll be like, doc G is coming with me. Oh, they must think I need an evaluation. They must think.
Ashlee [00:03:17]:
And I'm like, what? Like, that is not true. So that does often lead me to this discussion of what do you think therapy is? And while there's some truth to therapy being a lot about talking.
Jennifer [00:03:28]:
Right.
Ashlee [00:03:28]:
And a lot about processing, digging, connecting things, there's also different ways that we do therapy now. And I think we could spend six years, Jennifer, like, talking about all these things. But the one thing that I know both you and I kind of specialize in you more so than me. So I'm going to pass this mic a lot is emdr. And I think it's important to talk about. And I think this episode, we're just going to bring it to light and then probably expand upon it in like a follow up episode, only because there is so much. But why don't we break down what that is? I think it's important for people to know that there's different things out there that we can do. EMDR being one of them.
Jennifer [00:04:05]:
Yeah. Well, I think first is like, what is EMDR stand for? Yes. Which is eye movement desuscitation reprocessing. I always struggle.
Ashlee [00:04:14]:
Okay, I was just about to say I can never. I can never say that either again.
Jennifer [00:04:20]:
Yes. And the Francis Shapiro is the. I wouldn't call her the inventor, I guess the discoverer of EMDR and kind of move things forward with this therapeutic intervention. She said she wished to come up with a different name and I kind of wish that she had as well. But it really is just a Intervention that therapists can use that is a little bit different than talk therapy. I don't know, Ashlee. I feel like we started over. You made me reflect.
Jennifer [00:04:53]:
Like, gosh, what do people really do think that therapy is? But I. I'll be specific and talk about emdr. So how I explain EMDR to clients is that it is a way in which the brain naturally heals itself. So in the eye movement, it's replicating our REM sleep, our deepest cycle of sleep. REM sleep is when your eyes are rapidly moving back and forth. That is the rapid eye movement that happens in REM sleep, which is a deep sleep cycle. A lot of our first responders don't get into REM sleep because of. They do not, which makes it really difficult.
Jennifer [00:05:34]:
And you know something I think is great about the human body in a lot of ways, it's so healthy and can heal itself. So when I think like, oh, if I cut my finger, I'm not thinking, okay, I need to clot blood and grow a scab, grow new skin, that my body just automatically does that. And our brain has that ability too. When we rest, we sleep. We pre process our experience of the day. And unfortunately, sometimes there's experiences that we have that maybe we don't get a good night's sleep afterwards. Or there's experiences that we have, especially when we're first responders, that, you know, nobody should really have to go see or experience these things. There's no place in our brain.
Jennifer [00:06:14]:
Brain to put some of the horrors that people experience when they're first responders. And what EMDR is doing is just taking that information. Clients can do different things, like the eye movement, which is the replication of the REM sleep. There's also this fancy word called bilateral stimulation. It is just where both hemispheres of the brain are working. Okay, have I gotten too technical? Like, are you.
Ashlee [00:06:40]:
No, you're doing a great job. I always giggle when I hear. Because when I explain, explain it. And I go. I don't know why I go to the run sleep par. And I talk about the eye shifting. I'm always waiting for someone to be like, wait, what? Or like, freak out about that. Or be like, our eyes shift.
Ashlee [00:06:54]:
But, yeah, no, I think you're doing great job.
Jennifer [00:06:56]:
I think that's always important. You know, when I tell people that about sleep, I'm quick to say, I'm not putting you to sleep. I'm not hypnotizing you. You're awake and conscious throughout this experience. And EMDR has been in practice for you know, over decades now. I want to say like 30.
Ashlee [00:07:17]:
I was going to say, I know.
Jennifer [00:07:18]:
It'S over 30 now, probably getting closer to 40. And technology has come a lot further. So as much as people do eye movement, there's what we call tappers, a real clinical word. But it's just this thing that will vibrate in your hand and go back and forth. I do a lot of virtual sessions, so I use eye movement a lot with virtual sessions. But I also have auditorial. So it will go into one headphone, then the next headphone, if people have headphones in. And then there's also tactical tapping, where I just have people, like, cross their arms and we'll tap.
Jennifer [00:07:52]:
And I get to tap with them, which is I get some free emdr sometimes when I'm doing that with clients, you know what, I work with clients in terms of, like a traumatic experience. And there can be one call that's a traumatic experience. And sometimes those are some experiences that as therapists will call little T's that are small traumatic experiences. And sometimes those little T's can be a little bit harder than the big T's. If we maybe had an experience with an adult that made us feel less than, or if we maybe had a thing at school that made, you know, school was hard and we felt left out in groups. Like, there's just these experiences that we have when we're little and we don't have all the information that are. If you think about our hemispheres, our left and our right, and our thinking and our feeling when we're little, we can get that really confused. And so EMDR can be a great resource sometimes for, you know, my smart brain knows that I'm loved and cared for, and yet sometimes in my heart, I don't feel that way.
Jennifer [00:08:57]:
And EMDR is a great tool that can kind of get those online together. It is a researched intervention. This is not just some therapists came together, like, hey, let's try this. There's lots of research that shows that, as an intervention can be really helpful. Yeah.
Ashlee [00:09:15]:
And I think it's important to kind of do a little throwback to one of our very first episodes that probably hasn't gotten the attention that it needs just because we were really brand new babies to this whole podcast thing. But when we had Dr. Kuei on here, she did a fabulous job, like, talking to us about how the brain works. Right. And what happens to the brain when we're in high stress situations. And I think that it's important when we're talking about EMDR to remember that prefrontal cortex gets kind of a little bit offline. It's not fully there when we are in a high stress situation, which makes it hard for us to actually reprocess things in a way that we typically would if it was a normal event. And so I always tell my guys and girls that come to me that in that moment, like your brain is still taking everything in, typically through your senses, but the piecing it together is kind of hard.
Ashlee [00:10:01]:
And it'll take that situation and it'll store it away in your long term memory in what I call the red file encampment. And it'll just keep doing that if we don't take it back out and reprocess it with our prefrontal cortex back online. Right. To have those facts of everything that happened around us with that emotional side and to work through it that way. But I think that's something really important to recognize is that literally the brain is doing this to us when we're in these careers. And it's something that we can't necessarily help. It's just how we respond.
Jennifer [00:10:30]:
Well, and I think to that whole point, you know, something I talk a lot about with clients is that EMDR is really working to speak to our amygdala to that, you know, survival part of our brain, which is not our frontal cortex. It's not that smart decision making self. It is just about survival. Which I think, you know, is kind of cool that like our brain is wired in a way that survival, I mean, that's gotta be the most important thing. Not always about our happiness or feeling good. It's about surviving and that connection with your amygdala and our physical body. You know, if I'm running from a saber tooth tiger, I can't digest my bologna sandwich.
Ashlee [00:11:12]:
Yes.
Jennifer [00:11:12]:
You know, I need to feel my heart racing. I'm gonna feel sweaty in case somebody grabs me. Like all these things. And we have these physical responses and that memory. Right. And so that's why I think sometimes first responders will say, I was just in the parking lot at Walmart and I needed to go in and I'm having this large physical reaction. That's because that amygdala talked about not being online. That amygdala has this kind of memory and this connection immediately with their body.
Jennifer [00:11:42]:
And so EMDR does this great job. I say speaking, Amy knees, speaking to our amygdala through our physical body. You know, with emdr, you're doing a lot of check ins of notice what you notice in your body doing body scan, starting of the top of your head to the bottom of your toes. You know, what do you notice? Do you notice tension? Do you notice relaxation? Do you notice numbness? Do you notice nothing? Like, all those things are ways in which we're trying to get that to not let ourselves go offline, to use your kind of metaphor, and allow that stuff to kind of be processed in a way that says, I don't have to have a physical response in the parking lot. Like, I can say, like, hey, I'm safe.
Ashlee [00:12:27]:
I'm okay.
Jennifer [00:12:28]:
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
Ashlee [00:12:31]:
And why do you and I. I know I'm. I'm bouncing off of you here, but I do find that EMDR is, like, my first responders really take to emdr. I happen to think that baseline, like, not going anything significant here. I like that EMDR structured feel like my first responders appreciate that too, because they are more structured humans. It's more like, this is where you start. This is right. Like.
Ashlee [00:12:57]:
And so there's a protocol to it, I guess, is what I'm trying to say. So I think that that's why my first responders really take to it. But do you have any experiences like you and I utilize EMDR a lot? What would you say is your feedback to that? Do you feel like it's really beneficial for your first responders as well?
Jennifer [00:13:15]:
Yes, and a big reason why, I think. I mean, I didn't really think of it in terms of the structure. I think it's more of, like, they.
Ashlee [00:13:22]:
Don'T have to talk on that too, though.</
23 min
November 19, 2025 How Practicing Gratitude Builds Resilience for First Responder Families
Jennifer [00:00:00]:
The purpose of gratitude is to help that other part of this, which is literally our mindset. Right. Our cognitive distortions and. And trying to change those to feel better.
Jennifer [00:00:10]:
Yeah, And I agree with that. And I think, you know, I do want to hold space. When you are seeing humanity at its worst or responding to a horrible accident or just seeing those things, it is going to leave an impression on your mindset. And I think that's why that work to kind of skill build and, man, it might feel really hard is so important. And, you know, skill building isn't. Well, I did that once, and I didn't change anything, so I'm done with it. No, skill building is doing something over and over and over again to really build that skill. Welcome back to the podcast.
Jennifer [00:00:51]:
I'm Jennifer.
Ashlee [00:00:53]:
And I'm Ashlee.
Jennifer [00:00:54]:
With a different voice this week at. Right, Ashlee.
Ashlee [00:00:57]:
Sorry, everyone. I don't know what's going on. So we're just.
Jennifer [00:01:00]:
It wasn't from screaming for the Bears, so we can, like, rule that out because, man, you've had some victories.
Ashlee [00:01:06]:
It didn't help. Well, we are on another victory. Well, now. Yeah, no, it's Monday still victory Monday. So that never does. That never helps. But, yeah, we're losing it. The voice is just not wanting to stay these days.
Ashlee [00:01:20]:
Welcome to the winter weather.
Jennifer [00:01:23]:
Yeah, but you're gonna make it. It's just us today. Our special guest is ourselves. So that's our special guest today. And in prep, I was like, oh, you know, what are we going to talk about? And then. Oh, duh. Next week is Thanksgiving. So I am.
Ashlee [00:01:39]:
Wait a minute. It's next week.
Jennifer [00:01:40]:
It is next week.
Ashlee [00:01:41]:
Oh, okay, everybody. I thought we had two weeks or something like that. That's wild.
Jennifer [00:01:47]:
Oh, my gosh.
Ashlee [00:01:49]:
Wait a minute. Yeah, because it's Monday.
Jennifer [00:01:52]:
Wow.
Ashlee [00:01:53]:
Welcome to the show. Okay. Yes.
Jennifer [00:01:56]:
I'm sorry, I might need to do a quick. Can you tell your name, your date of birth? Like, can I do a real quick assessment? Like, are you.
Ashlee [00:02:04]:
So, like, I feel like I have to tell everyone that I've been gone. Like Earth. Like, yeah, just gone. So, like, I. I feel like I'm so behind in everything. I don't even know what's happening right now. But I did not think I was next week. So, like, gratitude.
Ashlee [00:02:20]:
I'm thankful you told me.
Jennifer [00:02:22]:
There you go. Well, and you traveled on a Monday and a conference on a weekend. It is kind of like, what's up, down? Like, it's hard to. I could understand that for sure.
Ashlee [00:02:31]:
Who does that?
Jennifer [00:02:32]:
Yeah. I will say Thanksgiving is My favorite holiday. I love Thanksgiving. It's not just because of the food. Like, I just think thankfulness, gratitude is just a really incredible thing and tool, especially when it comes to resiliency. So I wanted to talk about that. And then I think you had some other stuff like from your conference that you wanted to talk about. So I think that's just kind of it for us today that we were going to cover.
Ashlee [00:02:59]:
Yeah. And that's what I love, is that like when our worlds collide like this. So one of my very favorite speakers at this conference, this was all he talked about was gratitude and our perception. Even as law enforcement. Right. And first responders in general, our perception going into every day really controls a lot of the outcome to things. And yet a lot of us decide to have a negative perception on stuff and then wonder why life around us is negative.
Jennifer [00:03:25]:
Well, and that's one thing that I'm sure everybody's probably sick of me talking about my military resiliency training. But one thing is I think sometimes we're not even trying to have a negative mindset. It's just a negative bias. Like our brains are wired, you know, to look out for the saber tooth tiger, to not eat the poisonous berries. That's why all the news is bad news. That is kind of a natural like survival instinct wiring. And so it takes takes a step to do that, to have that more like gratitude positive mindset, if you will. And one thing that like again is from the MRT training is hunt the good stuff.
Jennifer [00:04:06]:
I feel like maybe I've talked about that on here before though.
Ashlee [00:04:08]:
We'll retalk about it because we've been on this for a while, so people need to hear it. Right.
Jennifer [00:04:12]:
Like, but hunt the good stuff is always like a great thing. And again, Thanksgiving is of that where you just name what you're thankful for and hunt the good stuff. You're just looking about what you enjoyed about your day. And the goal is to actually like sit. It's not just to like, well, I had a good cup of coffee, traffic wasn't bad. I got my work done, I got home. The goal is actually to kind of sit and write down. And you know, write down can be pen and paper.
Jennifer [00:04:41]:
It can be your notes app, you know, writing down three things that were positive or three things that you're grateful.
Ashlee [00:04:48]:
For about your day.
Jennifer [00:04:49]:
So taking the time to write it down and then with that looking at what about it made it good. Like it's always nice to start the day without a lot of traffic. Right. What I always Appreciate is that question of how did that happen? You know, did it happen because I got up 10 minutes earlier or maybe it happened because I was running a little bit late and some of the traffic had moved, you know, just whatever that is. And so it's that idea of kind of sitting deeper with these things. And I think it's the same with the gratitude, you know, when we are sitting with what we're thankful for. Not just, I'm thankful for my family, I'm thankful for my friends. It's what about them? You know, what about that is something that we're grateful for.
Jennifer [00:05:30]:
And if we're in gratitude, we are not in an anxious mind. So if we're thinking about what we have, because anxiety is about that space and time in the future and if we can be present with what we do have and obtain in this moment. So that's the kind of hunt, the good stuff, the resiliency and why I was like, oh, this is a perfect time to take it, to talk about this with the holiday.
Ashlee [00:05:52]:
And I love that and I love how you just like, actually worded all that. It's super insightful and a huge tool for our listeners. Right. And I think that I've just come off of four days of hearing first responders say it's hard for me to see the good in life when all I see is bad.
Jennifer [00:06:11]:
Right?
Ashlee [00:06:11]:
Or like when you don't think something is possible, but then you see it firsthand. And, and that notion of, like, we had this huge talk about gratitude and the positive mindset and honestly, like, motivation and this whole thing is, it's just like I'm, I'm trying, but I, I don't even realize at this point that I don't do that. Like, all I see is negative. And I try to go out with my family, but all I'm doing is scanning the whole time. What if somebody comes in here and does something? What if. Right. And so I think people forget, like, or they just don't know which I didn't know either. And I don't know.
Ashlee [00:06:44]:
I'm full of facts. People will fact check me one day and we're going to get yelled at. But. And I've probably said it, but I'll say it a million times over because it just stuck with me that hard is that 90% of our, like, happiness and things like that actually come from our thought process and 10% comes from what we do. And that's wild because we sit on this show too. Like, and as therapists were like, hey, like Self care. Self care. Like, do the things you love.
Ashlee [00:07:06]:
Don't have the use to this and that. And while that's true, don't get me wrong, none of that goes away. So hold up, everybody, like, what the heck? The purpose of gratitude is to help that other part of this, which is literally our mindset. Right. Our cognitive distortions and trying to change those to feel better.
Jennifer [00:07:25]:
Yeah, And I agree with that. And I think, you know, I do want to hold space. When you are seeing humanity at its worst or responding to a horrible accident or just seeing those things, it is going to leave an impression on your mindset. And I think that's why that work to kind of skill build and man, it might feel really hard is so important. And, you know, skill building isn't. Well, I did that once and I didn't change anything. So I'm done with it. No, skill building is doing something over and over and over again to really build that skill.
Jennifer [00:08:04]:
And then I think to that point too, then we get into the territory of like, man, I can't ever do this. Like, well, then maybe this experience that you had at work is too much. And, like, we do need to go talk to a professional and explore options to save. Like, maybe there was a traumatic event that's happening that's kind of creating some dysregulation that maybe, you know. Well, I. I sit and journal for an hour, and gratitude's not really going to touch that for sure.
Ashlee [00:08:31]:
Yeah, absolutely. I think about the guests we've had on. Right. And like, our last episode was so incredibly powerful.
Jennifer [00:08:38]:
Oh, it was.
Ashlee [00:08:39]:
I was so grateful for that. Oh, my gosh, the story. Oh, it's like to be vulnerable, to talk about that was so powerful. And yet when I sit back and reflect on that. Sure. We didn't sit there and say, hey, tell us what you're grateful for now. Right. Like, we didn't specifically ask that question, but I challenge our listeners to go back and listen to that episode or listen to a few of them and identify the positives out of these horrific stories, because they are there.
Ashlee [00:09:06]:
I don't want our first responders to walk around feeling like they're not doing those things. They are. We just have to have that intentionality behind it sometimes.
Jennifer [00:09:13]:
Well, and I think you speak to that vulnerability. I think it can be like a practice and vulnerability exercise to name what we have. You know, I've worked with people that would have some fear about naming what's good, because fear of if I name it some, maybe that would be taken from Me or I wouldn't get to have those experiences. And so I do think that it's an act in vulnerability, but in a healthy way too, you know, that's not something you have to share with anybody. Nobody has to ever know that. And then on the other side of that too, like, I feel like you are always doing a great job of banging the drum for leadership. It's also a great thing to, like, incorporate in, in terms of, like, encouraging people that you're leading to say, hey, this is a practice that can be sometimes kind of helpful, you know. Yeah, well, and I think you think about where you are when you start a shift and where you are when you end a shift.
Jennifer [00:10:06]:
I mean, even for your conference, you know where you are when you started your conference to being like, worn out and what day is it at the end of stuff, it can be really hard for us to be at that place. And so sometimes it's a nice way to kind of say, like, here's something I do have control over because I don't know what I'm going to be walking into when it comes to work.
Ashlee [00:10:24]:
I'm so excited that you just brought up leadership. My nerdy heart. And I won't, I won't. I will go down it a little bit and back off. I thought my brain went, ooh, let's talk a little bit about, like, positive psychology. All those things. And yet what it comes back to is trying to reel it in because everyone's going to be like, ashley, we did not ask for a six hour episode.
Jennifer [00:10:46]:
Your voice isn't gonna last long. Terrible.
Ashlee [00:10:49]:
And you just went on a rant for six hours. But when we were working on some advanced peer support in our department, positive psychology got brought up. And I was like, yes, this is so true. This is exciting. And we did have people of leadership in that room. And, you know, one of them was very open to be like, oh, man. Like, that's not my style. My style is not to be like, hey, you did a really good job on this.
Ashlee [00:11:15]:
My style is to be like, hey, we need to work on this. Right? And yet he was like, I don't purposely do that, but I think, you know, like, he's like, in my brain, I'm helping, like, I'm identifying areas. But I didn't stop to think that I should probably be pointing out the good too, that they're doing.
Jennifer [00:11:33]:
Right.
Ashlee [00:11:33]:
I don't want innocent, but, like, in a way, innocent of like, yeah, I would never want people to feel like I'm being negative. I Just thought I was doing the right thing by educating them when I saw something that can be approved upon, which is very true in a leadership role.
Jennifer [00:11:48]:
Absolutely.
Ashlee [00:11:49]:
And yet the difference we can make in morale when we also balance that with identifying the good that's done too. And I think leadership plays a huge part in that. It starts from the top. If the top is doing that, the rest start to follow.
Jennifer [00:12:04]:
Right. Well, and again, I think that you're exactly right, that that's a very innocent thing. And I think that. I don't know. I grew up in a generation was a. You could do five things right, but you're going to be called out for the one thing you didn't do. Like, that's just. But I think that that leads him back to that kind of how human brains are wired.
Jennifer [00:12:23]:
It is that negative bias
33 min

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When The Call Hits Home: A Podcast for First Responders' Children

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