There is so much pressure on us to get so much done and so many more demands. And sometimes it's just saying no. That ability to say, like, hey, I can't go to the 12 Christmas parties. Welcome back to the podcast.

This is Jennifer and I'm Ashlee. It's us again.

It is us again.

Holiday season.

It is. It's a busy holiday season, but as usual, I'm glad it's just us. And we're excited for our special guests that we'll have back on the pod. But we were debating in terms of, like, gosh, it's the busy season, and I think we should talk about the seasons of the holidays and what that represents for us. Just kind of go from there, I think, is what we're going to start with.

Yeah, absolutely. It's a hard poll. We were both a little bit like, do we make everyone wait till the new year for some new episodes? Or then we were both sitting here talking about our experiences in terms of the holidays, how. How it relates to us working. And we both realize that, well, the holidays are actually. They're not just a stressful time for us. They're a stressful time for probably every single one of our listeners. And more so our first responders.

Right. They don't get that day off. Some of them don't. They don't get to be home with their families. I think there's a lot that goes into that.

There is. And I don't know, I mean, I just think from, like, inside baseball, I feel like that I always get a little bit busier as a therapist around the holidays, be it the approaching holiday or people's New Year's resolutions in January. And I think that the holidays bring up a lot of different things for people. You know, I think that there's plenty of holiday cheer and we always want to celebrate that. But I also think the reality of sometimes that there are things that the holidays brings that is hard. For example, I think something that can be hard with the holidays is if we're a new grieving family, like, if we've lost a family member and this is our first holiday, holiday season without them. Like, it kind of can feel so foreign and different, and traditions that we were looking forward to can be sad and can be hard.

Absolutely.

I think it's also the aspect which, you know, you pointed this out, Ashlee, is that not all our first responders get to celebrate the holidays. And sometimes it's just another day because they have work and trying to cover down time where a lot of people are Asking for time off. Yeah.

Oh, that's true too. Right. I guess I didn't even think about the shift changing, the people who do want time off, not being able to either get it or people being forced because of that. Right. Like, so there's a little bit of negativity that can sometimes come along with that. I do think that there is some truth to. Like you said, I do want to hit on this positive aspect of it too, because as you were talking about that something that came to my mind was my very favorite thing. Well, I feel nervous about saying this, so I'm going to have to pivot a little bit, but like, oh, okay.

Right when I was about to say it, I was like, maybe I shouldn't say this. My very favorite thing was shop with a cop. My dad let us be very active in that. My dad played a very big role in shop with the cop with his department. And he often was the big man, if you know what I'm saying. Like, my luck, someone's listening. And I'm not looking to. I'm not looking to destroy lives today.

Right. Looking to. To give it how it is all still believe.

And so that was one of my very favorite things because my dad would allow us girls to go and then my, My niece actually got to participate in it too. And it was such a learning experience for me as a child of a first responder. One, just to be so grateful for everything that I do have and how to give back to the community. But two, to see my dad in that role. Because again, we think of our first responders a lot of the times. Police.

Right.

We see them as their uniform. But if there's one thing about my dad is like, he loves so hard and so like, him being able to do that and to give back, especially with kids, like, it was so touching to see and it was something that I know he loved very, very much.

Yeah.

And so I, I do want to give a shout out to that because I do think there is a little bit in December where we see, like, more positive news about first responders because of the awesome things that they're trying to do for, for their communities around the holiday.

Right. Well, and I think about that too, in terms of when you're responding to people on their worst days and getting to have a moment of just getting to do something fun, you know, not having to write somebody a speeding ticket or have to show up to somebody's home that's caught on fire or, you know, give somebody cpr, been in a car accident. Like, you get to do something that's just fun and enjoyable for the community.

And I have to laugh. Like, what are you talking? But none of them even get out of their squads when. When it's a holiday, they're like, oh, sorry, cannot. I always crack up. I'm like, everyone speed today. The day is the day. Most of them are not getting out. No, I'm just kidding.

But I always remember that with my dad, and I always be like, dad doesn't matter. And he's like, I'm not ruining someone's Christmas. Like, so. That's so funny. But I think you also bring up a good point. And I hate to turn this negative. I don't want this episode to be negative. But I really think it's important to highlight the fact that as clinicians, we hear a lot.

And something super important to me is honestly just the educational aspect of. And we talk a lot about the brain. We talk about trauma. But the holidays can be. We say it's hard for them because they're working, but for first responders, it can be so hard because they can go through a traumatic experience on the job. And because it's linked to a holiday. Like, say it happens on a holiday. Say somebody gets into a car wreck on Christmas Eve, right? And.

And they're that first responder that now has to tell the family, like, they're not going to be there. That can really ruin holidays for our first responders. And I. I hear it a lot in my office. Jennifer, I don't know about you, but the minute the brain makes the connection and the holidays is one. Because we, as humans, we love holidays, right? Like, the minute it makes that connection, those memories stick with us for a very long time.

Oh, and I just kind of want to say, like, I appreciate. Well, I don't want to bring us down, but I think part of this and why you and I started this little podcast was just about wanting to be honest about the downside of the different things that we experience. And I think that when we talk about these things that are heavier or harder, it can somehow feel like we can take a breath, because I'm not alone struggling with the holidays, and nobody gets that I had this awful thing happen, to your point, on Christmas Eve, on New Year's Eve, and it happened 10 years ago, and I can be here celebrating with my family and wanting to enjoy it, and it can be this kind of black cloud that kind of sits on the day. And to speak about the brain, there's a part of our brain that Loves organizations and dates and memories, and we like to put things in boxes. And so an anniversary that's connected to a holiday, it does sink a little bit lower. That's something that I think when my dad was on the podcast and we shared about Sandra Guevara, his experience, that actually happened on my mom's birthday. And so it is this horrible thing that then gets connected with this date. And so I think that that can really show up around the holidays.

And I think what's hard too with the holidays is that it's a season. You know, it's not Valentine's Day. That's one day that comes and goes. There is this build up to. And even with other holidays as well, you know, like Hanukkah, like, it's this build up to this day, and then it's multiple days, or with Christmas, it is this build up into that holiday. So I think that, that it, like I said, it can just kind of be in the atmosphere a little bit more than just, okay, here comes the day. And I know for some people, especially again, those first holidays that we have, or that first experience where it's a year later from this, you know, traumatic call I had to make, it can be this buildup of, what's this day gonna be? You know, what is this holiday gonna look like now that it's different?

And the brain is tricky, right? So the brain doesn't necessarily scream like, this is why I'm feeling this way all the time. And so it's. Even for some people, it's even this buildup of just like feeling off or feeling anxious or feeling. Feeling irritable because of the holidays. But really when it's tied to something, right? Like, it's very common for that to happen when anniversaries come around, right? We can feel that and sometimes we don't realize it. And our first responders, I think, will be the first to tell us that, right? Like, I have had all these things. I'm fine, I compartmentalized it. Yet here's the holiday coming.

Something tragic happened, and I just, I hate Christmas. I've heard that so many times.

I. Well, and I think that that is such a reality. You know, I think the busyness of the season is stressful and, like, who has time to sit down and think, like, why am I feeling lousy right now? And just that whole thing of I hate Christmas. And, you know, not to do another shameless plug for therapy here on this podcast, but I mean, I think it is that stuff of. And going back to an Old episode. I think, you know, Jeremy Davis, when he was on the podcast, talking about, you have to be able to sit with those things and explore those things. They're important. And yet it's a busy time.

It doesn't feel like there's time. I gotta have holiday performances to go to, and again, more coverage because people are out and holiday shopping and holiday parties and all of those things. It gets really hard.

Yeah. And what I hear when you say that, I'm going to be honest, like, I'm. Man, I'm. My clinician brain just goes back to, like, this feeling of guilt. I think a lot comes up. Guilt is huge in my office.

Yeah.

You know, and it doesn't have to be. It could be I feel guilty for not helping in this way, but also, like, I feel guilty because I'm maybe not as present during the holiday season with my own family, given just what I'm going through. Right.

But I do think that is hard. And I think that sometimes people. It's easier to show up in those other ways and harder to show up sometimes for our families.

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And I think that's something really important, too. One, we don't want to forget that there's normalcy to those feelings. Right. So, like, if we do feel a little more agitated around the holidays, if we do have a call, we go right back to and we feel ourselves a little bit more distant or anxious. That's normal. That's a normal reaction.

It absolutely is. And so I think that ability to just give ourselves the grace and meet ourselves where we're at is totally important there. You know, if you're a Grinch, you're a Grinch. That can be it.

First off, the Grinch was so valid, though. He was kind of valid. He was bullied. I can go on forever. I love that man. Anyway.

Yeah. But I think to acknowledge, like, you don't have to be fake. You don't have to, this is my fault. Favorite time of year, and how wonderful it is if that's not where you're at. And then I think when we're able to acknowledge that and say, hey, this is where I'm at, it usually allows us to show up in a more sincere way with the people we care about. It's a hard time. It's a hard season. For whatever reason, acknowledging that, giving ourselves kind of that space and a little bit of that chance to catch our breath, I think that allows us to say, okay, this is how I do want to show up for my kiddo who loves the holiday or for my spouse who is doing a lot to make sure things are magical for people, you know, whatever that point is, I think that that is important.

And seasons. Seasons change. I think sometimes that can be helpful too, to recognize it is a temporary season.

I think that's actually something that we miss a lot. We are. When we are feeling and we're sitting in it, it feels awful. And when we feel awful, it feels like it's awful forever. And we let. Yes, and we let those cognitive distortions. Right. Which to me are definitions to our irrational thoughts.

A lot of the times, if I can break that down as simple as possible and correct me if you have a different definition, but it's the easiest way to do it on here right now. And we let those take over and we forget that so much of us, like so much of what's happening really is only temporary. One, we change a lot as humans, but two, just time in general.

Yeah. I like to call that stinking thinking. That's how I boil it.

I love that.

Yeah. And those negative thoughts and how those negative thoughts can really pile on themselves. So again, like