"Age of Miracles"

What if we treated building nuclear more like a manufacturing challenge than a construction challenge? How could nuclear benefit from the tried-and-true methodologies of other large industrial industries like ship-building and oil and gas to make nuclear as cheap as solar and wind to produce?

In this episode – the first of two with leading nuclear fission startup founders – Packy and Julia talk to a new crop of nuclear entrepreneurs who are focused on manufacturing small modular reactors at scale. Drawing on best practices from very different industries like building reactors in shipyards or adapting the methods of offshore oil and gas rigs, these founders are taking a radically different approach from the incumbents in nuclear power plant construction. They’re focused on bringing the experience curves for building nuclear way down

But how will it actually work in practice? How do they balance pleasing regulators with innovating on new designs for more efficiency and manufacturability? How do they finance these businesses? What is the plan for connecting these power sources to the grid – or finding other “behind the meter” use cases? Tune in to go deep with the people turning theories about nuclear manufacturing into reality.

Thank you to this episode’s guests: Matt Slotkin, Nick Touran, Bret Kugelmass, Katherine Boyle, Josh Wolfe, and Jake DeWitte 

SPONSORS: RIPPLING SPEND | WEIGHTS AND BIASES | GIVEWELL | ANROK

Imagine total control over your company's spending with Rippling Spend, the all-in-one platform for expense reports, corporate cards, and bill pay. Visit https://www.rippling.com/turpentine for a free demo and one month free trial.

Advanced training for building production-ready RAG applications. Learn from experts to overcome LLM challenges, evaluate systematically, and integrate advanced features. Includes free Cohere credits. Visit https://wandb.me/cr to start the RAG++ course today.

GiveWell spends 50,000 hours every year doing deep-dives into different charitable programs to try to find the ways to do the most good for your dollar. Visit https://www.givewell.org to find out more or make a donation. Select PODCAST and enter Econ 102 at checkout to make sure they know you heard about them from us.

Anrok is the enterprise-grade solution that automates sales tax compliance worldwide. Visit https://www.anrok.com/turpentine to claim your free nexus study and take control of your SaaS tax strategy.

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A huge thank you to our presenting sponsors for Season 1:

Range Fund Holdings: Visit https://www.rangeetfs.com or contact your financial advisor to learn more about the Range Nuclear Renaissance ETF and start investing in the future of energy.

Secureframe: Get 10% off your first year of Secureframe: https://secureframe.com/packy

Pilot.com: Get 20% off your accounting bill for the first 6 months, go to https://pilot.com/packy

Clean Air Task Force https://www.catf.us/

For the full list of resources referenced in this show: https://ageofmiraclesss.addpotion.com/

Subscribe to Not Boring to get weekly doses of tech and business strategy, straight to your inbox: https://www.notboring.co/

Timestamps:

(00:00) Building a shipyard to manufacture nuclear reactors

(06:22) The experience curve

(11:00) Which industries can we steal ideas from?

(19:40) Blue Energy with Matt Slotkin

(25:10) Last Energy with Bret Kugelmass

(31:40) Good strategy, bad strategy

(38:41) Financing nuclear companies

(44:00) Oklo going public

(51:30) Recap

This show is produced by Turpentine: a network of podcasts, newsletters, and more, covering technology, business, and culture — all from the perspective of industry insiders and experts. We’re launching new shows every week, and we’re looking for industry-leading sponsors — if you think that might be you and your company, email us at [email protected].

If we just tried to implement and scale the technology we have today for large scale nuclear reactors, with no innovation on reactor designs or business models, could we do it? How hard (or expensive) could it really be?

In this episode, Packy and Julia dig into the nitty gritty of these issues and look at what it actually takes to build a plant in America (and around the globe). They point out some opportunities to improve key problem areas like financing and workforce deployment. And they talk with nuclear experts, government financing officials, investors, and entrepreneurs who are all trying to figure out: how do we fix the economics of building large scale nuclear reactors?

Some of the answers include innovations in financing and possible regulatory changes – and some get more creative, like floating shipyards and repurposing old coal plants. Tune in to go deep on the economics of nuclear power plants. 

Thank you to this episode’s guests:, Bret Kugelmass, Mark Nelson, Josh Wolfe, James Krellenstein, Emmet Penney, Julie Kozeracki, and David Ulevitch.

SPONSORS: RIPPLING SPEND | WEIGHTS AND BIASES | GIVEWELL | ANROK

Imagine total control over your company's spending with Rippling Spend, the all-in-one platform for expense reports, corporate cards, and bill pay. Visit https://www.rippling.com/turpentine for a free demo and one month free trial.

Advanced training for building production-ready RAG applications. Learn from experts to overcome LLM challenges, evaluate systematically, and integrate advanced features. Includes free Cohere credits. Visit https://wandb.me/cr to start the RAG++ course today.

GiveWell spends 50,000 hours every year doing deep-dives into different charitable programs to try to find the ways to do the most good for your dollar. Visit https://www.givewell.org and Sslect PODCAST and enter Econ 102 at checkout to make sure they know you heard about them from us.

Anrok is the enterprise-grade solution that automates sales tax compliance worldwide. Visit https://www.anrok.com/turpentine to claim your free nexus study and take control of your SaaS tax strategy.

–

A huge thank you to our presenting sponsors for Season 1:

Range Fund Holdings: Visit https://www.rangeetfs.com or contact your financial advisor to learn more about the Range Nuclear Renaissance ETF and start investing in the future of energy.

Secureframe: Get 10% off your first year of Secureframe: https://secureframe.com/packy

Pilot.com: Get 20% off your accounting bill for the first 6 months, go to https://pilot.com/packy

Clean Air Task Force https://www.catf.us/

For the full list of resources referenced in this show: https://ageofmiraclesss.addpotion.com/

Subscribe to Not Boring to get weekly doses of tech and business strategy, straight to your inbox: https://www.notboring.co/

Timestamps:

(00:00) Why is building new nuclear in the U.S. so expensive?

(07:40) How nuclear fission and nuclear plants work

(16:50) Nuclear power plant economics

(29:05) So, how do we fix the economics of building nuclear power plants?

(41:45) What's actually holding industry executives back from ordering more projects?

(48:12) Serialized construction and developer models

(58:50) Why is nobody talking about regulation?

(1:08:30) Acceleration through federal and popular support

(1:16:32) Recap

This show is produced by Turpentine: a network of podcasts, newsletters, and more, covering technology, business, and culture — all from the perspective of industry insiders and experts. We’re launching new shows every week, and we’re looking for industry-leading sponsors — if you think that might be you and your company, email us at [email protected].

“Nuclear fission is a miracle technology, and we've had it for 80 years. But we don't live in an energy abundant world. Because progress takes more than miracles.” Almost exactly 50 years ago, nuclear fission and large scale reactors were on track to deliver abundant, cheap energy to the globe. But instead, nuclear power declined even faster than it had scaled, becoming a pariah of the energy industry and relegated to a footnote. What actually happened? And how do we prevent it from happening again? 

From nuclear’s origins in small reactors for submarines and planes after WWII to its rapid scaling into gigawatt-scale reactors in the 60s and 70s; from President Eisenhower’s calls for “atoms for peace” to the pressures of the original “decels”, the degrowth anti-nuclear environmental movement; from regulatory boosterism to regulatory overreach, the story of nuclear is one of extremes. And there’s much to learn about pushing nuclear forward in the 21st century. 

Thank you to this episode’s guests: Emmet Penney, Rod Adams, Nick Touran, James Krellenstein, Bret Kugelmass, Alex Epstein, and Mark Nelson. 

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SPONSORS: RIPPLING SPEND | WEIGHTS AND BIASES | GIVEWELL | ANROK

Imagine total control over your company's spending with Rippling Spend, the all-in-one platform for expense reports, corporate cards, and bill pay. Control spend, set custom approval chains, and close your books 3x faster. Visit https://www.rippling.com/turpentine for a free demo and one month free trial.

Advanced training for building production-ready RAG applications. Learn from experts to overcome LLM challenges, evaluate systematically, and integrate advanced features. Includes free Cohere credits. Visit https://wandb.me/cr to start the RAG++ course today.

GiveWell spends 50,000 hours every year doing deep-dives into different charitable programs to try to find the ways to do the most good for your dollar. GiveWell has now spent over 17 years researching charitable organizations and only directs funding to a few of the HIGHEST-IMPACT opportunities they’ve found. Visit https://www.givewell.org and select PODCAST and enter Econ 102 at checkout to make sure they know you heard about them from us.

Anrok is the enterprise-grade solution that automates sales tax compliance worldwide. Anrok tracks your exposure, calculates tax, and handles filings—all in one platform. Visit https://www.anrok.com/turpentine to claim your free nexus study and take control of your SaaS tax strategy.

–

A huge thank you to our presenting sponsors for Season 1:

Range Fund Holdings: Visit https://www.rangeetfs.com or contact your financial advisor to learn more about the Range Nuclear Renaissance ETF and start investing in the future of energy.

Secureframe: Get 10% off your first year of Secureframe: https://secureframe.com/packy

Pilot.com: Get 20% off your accounting bill for the first 6 months, go to https://pilot.com/packy

Clean Air Task Force https://www.catf.us/

-

For the full list of resources referenced in this show: https://ageofmiraclesss.addpotion.com/

Subscribe to Not Boring to get weekly doses of tech and business strategy, straight to your inbox: https://www.notboring.co/

Timestamps:

(00:00) Two narratives of nuclear energy

(05:50) Nuclear’s early history and rise

(11:34) The start of the fall

(19:44) Five key factors that led to nuclear's decline

(20:09) Factor #1: the AEC

(25:32) Factor #2: good old-fashioned economics

(29:35) Factor #3: regulation

(41:33) Factor #4: the environmentalists

(49:13) Factor #5: the nuclear disasters

(53:00) Recap of the historical lessons

This show is produced by Turpentine: a network of podcasts, newsletters, and more, covering technology, business, and culture — all from the perspective of industry insiders and experts. We’re launching new shows every week, and we’re looking for industry-leading sponsors — if you think that might be you and your company, email us at [email protected].

Welcome to the first episode of the first season of “Age of Miracles”. This new show from Packy McCormick, investor and writer of the Not Boring newsletter, asks the question: how do we create a future of abundance?

This season, we’re exploring the future of energy – specifically, diving deep into nuclear energy, both fission and fusion. The world needs more energy, not less, argues Packy, and nuclear has been neglected as a clean, reliable source of energy for too long. Joining Packy as co-host this season is Julia DeWahl, who previously helped scale SpaceX’s Starlink and Opendoor and is now co-founder of micro-nuclear reactor startup Antares. 

In this episode, Packy and Julia set the stage for the season. They start with how they each got nuke-pilled and how the global narrative on energy has shifted, following events like the war in Ukraine and growing inflation. Next, they bust the three most common myths about nuclear energy: it’s too unsafe, there’s too much nuclear waste, and nuclear energy = nuclear weapons. And then they set the stage for the real challenges we’ll tackle this season: the economics of nuclear power, regulation and the role of government, and the power of public perception. 

If you’re curious about the future of energy, technology, or how to get out of a doomer loop and start working towards an abundant future, join us. An age of miracles is within reach — if we're willing to work for it.

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SPONSORS: RIPPLING SPEND | WEIGHTS AND BIASES | GIVEWELL | ANROK

Rippling Spend, the all-in-one platform for expense reports, corporate cards, and bill pay. Visit https://www.rippling.com/turpentine for a free demo and one month free trial.

Advanced training for building production-ready RAG applications. Learn from experts to overcome LLM challenges, evaluate systematically, and integrate advanced features. Includes free Cohere credits. Visit https://wandb.me/cr to start the RAG++ course today.

GiveWell spends 50,000 hours every year doing deep-dives into different charitable programs to try to find the ways to do the most good for your dollar. Visit https://www.givewell.org to find out more or make a donation. Select PODCAST and enter Econ 102 at checkout to make sure they know you heard about them from us.

Anrok is the enterprise-grade solution that automates sales tax compliance worldwide. Visit https://www.anrok.com/turpentine to claim your free nexus study and take control of your SaaS tax strategy.

–

A huge thank you to our presenting sponsors for Season 1:

Range Fund Holdings: Visit https://www.rangeetfs.com or contact your financial advisor to learn more about the Range Nuclear Renaissance ETF and start investing in the future of energy.

Secureframe: Get 10% off your first year of Secureframe: https://secureframe.com/packy

Pilot.com: Get 20% off your accounting bill for the first 6 months, go to https://pilot.com/packy

Clean Air Task Force https://www.catf.us/

-

For the full list of resources referenced in this show: https://ageofmiraclesss.addpotion.com/

Subscribe to Not Boring to get weekly doses of tech and business strategy, straight to your inbox: https://www.notboring.co/

Timestamps:

(00:00) Why the world needs more energy

(06:43) Preview of this season of Age of Miracles

(10:03) Let's talk nuclear fission

(19:15) Busting common nuclear myths: disasters, waste, and proliferation

(30:22) The 201 challenges with nuclear energy

(36:21) Could all the energy in 2050 just be fusion?

(45:23) Closing thoughts

This show is produced by Turpentine: a network of podcasts, newsletters, and more, covering technology, business, and culture — all from the perspective of industry insiders and experts. We’re launching new shows every week, and we’re looking for industry-leading sponsors — if you think that might be you and your company, email us at [email protected]. 

Age of Miracles is a narrative show that explores the complex industries that will play an important role in creating an abundant future for humanity. Episodes 1 and 2 drop October 27th.

Crusoe is on a mission to align the future of computing with the future of the climate. It has pioneered infrastructure that taps into stranded energy — methane being flared or excess production from clean and renewable sources — to power the compute resources we need to drive our shared progress and reduce its environmental impact.

The company is building an AI-native cloud infrastructure from scratch, and doing so by colocating and powering its data centers with stranded energy from some of the harshest and most remote locations on earth.

Emi Gal is the founder and CEO of Ezra.

Ezra is on a mission to detect cancer early for everyone in the world. The company offers full-body MRI scans in order to catch cancer earlier to increase the odds of beating it. 

I recently did an Ezra scan myself, and while it was nerve-wracking to face cancer, confirming that I’m cancer-free was a priceless relief. My scan took 60 minutes, but Ezra just received FDA clearance for the world’s first 30-minute full body MRI to screen for cancer. It’s faster, more affordable, and just as accurate thanks to Ezra Flash AI. 

Book your Ezra scan and use the code PACKY150 to get $150 off. 

Dylan Beynon is the founder and CEO of Mindbloom. Minbloom's mission is to transform lives today, to transform the world tomorrow through psychedelic medicine. It's starting with Ketamine therapy serving patients with depression and anxiety. 89% of Mindbloom clients report improvements in anxiety and depression symptoms. Beyond Ketamine therapy, Mindbloom is riding a wave of new research and regulation that's mainstreaming psychedelics for clinical use and shaping how approach physical, emotional, and mental wellbeing.

Brandon Arvanaghi⁠⁠ is the co-founder and CEO of ⁠⁠Meow⁠⁠. Meow is Costco meets financial services. It offers low-cost, high-value cash and treasury management products for high-growth businesses. This is Brandon's third time on the podcast, and this time he discusses Meow's navigation of the recent banking crisis and why Meow is built to last.

Zach Marks is the co-founder and CEO of Jia. Jia connects capital to small businesses in every corner of the world. Here's how Jia works: When business owners repay a loan, they drive value to lenders and the economy. They deserve to be compensated as owners of that economy. That’s why Jia rewards borrowers with an ownership stake in Jia’s long-term growth. Ownership leads to better borrower behavior, which benefits the entire ecosystem.

Packy and Zach discuss how blockchain can help align incentives in emerging market lending, Jia's launch, and in a small-world moment, Jia's partnership with Oze (a company founded and run by Packy's sister, Meghan.

You can learn more Jia and it's recent funding in this TechCrunch article.