We are officially entering the "Multi-AI Era." Much like the multi-cloud times, organizations are no longer just using a single AI tool like Microsoft Copilot, they are building custom, agentic workflows using diverse third-party models and MCP servers . In this episode, Ashish sits down with Shawn Hays from Varonis to discuss why the security market has over-pivoted on AISPM (AI Security Posture Management) . Shawn spoke about how having visibility and an inventory of your AI models is a great start, but it fails to secure the enterprise if you lack the guardrails to actually stop an agent from going off the rails and exfiltrating data . Shawn breaks down the components of a robust AI security platform (like Varonis Atlas) and explains why data security is inseparable from AI security. He spoke about why AI agents will blindly "read whatever is on the teleprompter," meaning your AI is only as secure as the data access and identity controls surrounding it . Tune in to learn how to apply Zero Trust across the entire AI chain from the prompter to the cloud infrastructure

Guest Socials -⁠⁠ Shawn's Linkedin

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If you are interested in AI Security, you can check out our sister podcast -⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ AI Security Podcast⁠

Questions asked:

(00:00) Introduction(02:50) Shawn's Background: Microsoft, CMMC, and Varonis (03:50) The Biggest AI Security Challenges (Copilot to Agentic AI) (05:50) Third-Party AI Risk (Jira and Salesforce Agents) (08:40) The Connector Ecosystem Danger (Copilot + Salesforce) (11:50) 8 Distinct Areas of an AI Security Platform (Varonis Atlas) (14:00) Entering the "Multi-AI Era" (Analogies to Multi-Cloud) (16:00) The AI Bill of Materials (Athena AI & Grammarly) (20:50) Why Data Security and AI Security are Intertwined (22:00) Applying Zero Trust to the Entire AI Chain (24:50) The Role of Identity and ITDR in AI Systems (27:00) HIPAA, OCR, and Regulating AI Data Access (31:30) Creating a Governance Plan for Microsoft Copilot (33:50) Securing Pro-Code AI Systems (AWS Bedrock & MCP Servers) (38:30) Why the Security Market is Over-Pivoting on AISPM (44:10) The "Ron Burgundy" Analogy for AI Agents (45:50) Fun Questions: Crocodile & Caramel Tasting (47:20) The Ed Sheeran & Yelawolf Mixtape Connection (48:50) Hobbies & Pride: DJing Weddings and Playing Ice Hockey in Alabama (51:50) Favorite Food: Alabama White Sauce BBQ & Milo's Burgers

Resources spoken about during the episode:

Varonis Atlas