Alchemist Recovery Podcast

“Randy, is it a good idea to quit on January 1st?” My standard answer isn’t what everyone wants to hear:

“I don’t know. It depends. What I do know is that a hard thing is going to be hard no matter when you do it.”

And while I have plenty to say about the pros and cons of picking January 1st as your sobriety date, I’m approaching the question from a different, more personal angle this year. I’m conducting my own experiment. Meaning, I’m picking that date to quit a thing. Specifically…

I’ve handed in my resignation and will not be renewing a contract that’s provided financial security for the past few years.

Watch the video for this episode on YouTube

Now what?

The ol’ reliable Voice of Fear says:

“Hey, you tried this before and it didn’t go so well. I don’t think this is a good idea. You better try and get that gig back. Beg, present new facts, manipulate your way to return into the Arms of Safety. I’ll help!”

Ah, the familiar and the safe. Another question that I’m asked as often as whether to quit on January 1st is:

“Why would I choose to stay the same and pick what’s familiar when I know it’s not healthy? Especially when I know that the option of ‘going for it’ and moving forward is the right thing to do?”

Well, the unknown is scary. So, the Voice of Fear makes a lot of sense. It provides practical advice that overrides those nagging intangibles like hope, faith, and possibility—even in the face of an obvious chance to change for the better.

Unfortunately, this kind of practicality can also serve as the cement that solidifies a cycle of addition into perpetual incarnations.

What’s better, really?

What’s better, really? A cycle of safety and familiarity or jumping into the unknown and creative possibility.

What’s different and what’s the same?

Chances are, if someone’s picking January 1st as their target date to quit something, they’ve tried this before. And if they’ve tried it before and are doing it again, that means the previous attempt(s) were unsuccessful.

We’ve got to acknowledge this and put all the cards on the table. What are we dealing with here in terms of prior failures—whether perceived or objective? 

Because don’t set up your January 1st quitting plans thinking that this time willpower will overpower the Voice of Fear. 

That’s a nightmare doomed for collapse. In one form or another, it’s probably what you tried (and failed) before. One reason is because it’s what I call the “Me vs. Me” scenario. Meaning, we have my willpower fighting my Fear.

Ugh. Nothing but struggle. That’s exhausting and, chances are, this is one answer to the question: “What’s the same?”

So, let’s set up a different plan and one more likely to meet with success. 

If you’re quitting, here’s a map of the territory.

I start with the model that’s worked for the last couple of decades with myself and my clients. It’s also the one I use in The Sober Shaman’s Path of Recovery.

This model is based on the first of my 3 Principles for dealing with addiction, which states:

Addiction affects the whole person: mental, spiritual, emotional, and physical. 

Pretty simple. Each of these four aspects of the whole person offers its own perspective on the issue, speaks its own language to describe the situation, and will employ its own medicine to deal with imbalances.

That in mind, let’s apply them to our January 1st quitting.

Here’s the Checklist of the Four Medicines and how we’re going to use them to support success:

Mental 

It’s not complicated. People try to change for two reasons: to get more pleasure and to receive less pain. That’s pretty much it.

So, taking inventory of this January 1st quitting:

What new awareness do you have around the pain, and what is the new pleasure you expect to receive? 

Action Item:

What methods will you employ to receive new awareness?

These can be: 

* Traditional therapy, counseling, or coaching

* Meditation

* Groups specific to your situation

* Your own investigation through reading, podcasts, courses, and programs

* Asking Spirit—such as through a shamanic journey or traditional or individual rituals in relationship with your helping Spirits

* Asking Nature—spending quiet alone time and receiving answers

Spiritual

To keep things simple, I like to say that what we believe is the primary factor determining our spiritual identity and how our relationship to the Divine manifests.

Belief is also a primary factor in how we approach quitting something. Thus, belief offers a link between our spirituality and our quitting. They’re absolutely intertwined. 

When we attempt to make a big change and break a long-running cycle, we will inevitably confront our own limiting beliefs:

What beliefs does quitting your thing force you to confront? 

“It takes a new experience to change an old belief”

—The Sober Shaman’s Path to Recovery

Action Item:

How will you provide yourself with new experiences that validate your new beliefs—and prove your outdated limiting core beliefs incorrect?

Whether religious or spiritual, atheist or animist, be clear about your beliefs and use them to your advantage. 

The medicine of experience will always affect your beliefs—whether it validates and strengthens them, or shatters them apart to reveal new truths.

This can look like:

* All of the suggestions above, under “receiving new awareness,” also provide experience. 

* Pilgrimage to sacred places (which could be sacred just to you—such as the house where you grew up, etc.)

* New ways of praying or reintroducing an old way of praying

Emotional 

Once you’ve got your methods for gaining awareness and exploring beliefs, take it up a notch by connecting with others who have kindred goals.

Action Item:

Who will be your connections?

What interests you?

Where will these connections take place?

For example:

* Connection to movement

* Connection to food and nourishment

* Creativity and creative outlets

Physical 

A practice is something that you do everyday. Regardless of whether you “feel like it,” you just do it. Chop wood, carry water. Day in, day out. Wash, rinse, repeat. 

Just do it.

This is where willpower is employed and we work the muscle of self-discipline. But, it’s different than “just willpower.” We now have the three new medicines of awareness, experience, and connection supporting it.

We’ve also got a reframe up our sleeve:

We’re not setting up “willpower against the thing to quit.” Rather, we’re setting up willpower for doing the next right thing.

We start with the smallest of steps: Pile up the “little wins.” Don’t tackle a buffalo everyday or you’ll eventually get trampled (this is what usually happens when people fall off the wagon, blame it on weakness and flimsy willpower, and quit the quitting).

Instead, accumulate those small daily wins. 

Action Item:

* Make a gratitude list at the end of each day to provide a sense of accomplishment and/or at the beginning of each day as an acknowledgement of your capacity to move through the day with the ability and opportunity to change for the better.

* This gratitude then allows you to touch others in ways that you would not have otherwise.

* Relationships: How does “not doing your thing” change the way you interact with others?

* Bring awareness to these new interactions.

* Receive the new experiences.

* Strengthen the new connections.

* What do you do instead of doing the thing you’ve quit?

Big Medicine

All of this creates the muscle of repetition. And whether you look at what this practice and repetition does to you with a brain scan offering evidence of new neural pathways…or through how experience solidifies your spiritual beliefs…or how connections enrich your life, it’s Big Medicine.

Take note:

What’s different about all of this compared to the last time you quit?

Whether you’re quitting a substance, a behavior, or “just” the comfort of the familiar (like me, with financial security), all four medicines apply.

Addiction affects the whole person: mental, spiritual, emotional, and physical.

Regardless of your drug or action of choice, religious or spiritual beliefs, skin color, culture, identity, sexual orientation, or financial and/or societal situation, every aspect of your whole person has been affected by whatever it is you’ve decided to quit.

The flip-side is also true: Quitting will affect all four aspects.

So, in preparation for your January 1st decision, let me ask:

* Do you have all four aspects of your whole person covered?

* If not, what’s missing?

* What’s the same as last time?

* What’s different?

* How can you use this information to your advantage?

* Is quitting on January 1st a good idea? 

I don’t know. It depends. What I do know is that a hard thing is going to be hard no matter when you do it.

I also know that the odds can be tilted in our favor. We can make the hard thing a bit easier, and who knows? Maybe it will even be fun when we pile up the little wins and have the support of the four medicines.

How about you?

Are you quitting something this January 1st? What is it? How’s your checklist looking?

Share and inspire in the comments! And if you’d like ideas, find some resources here.

No matter what path or approach you take, don’t leave out any aspect of the whole person. They all constitute you. And they all have the capacity to help you break unhelpful cycles and find a new, more supportive version of “familiar.”

With All Good Medicine & Wishes for a Happy New Year,Randal

A little while back, I had the pleasure of speaking with Todd Hunt. In our talk, we discussed the power of hospitality—specifically, how it can be a kind of Medicine in sobriety.

Todd shares some of his battles and subsequent victories as we discuss these topics and more:

* Members of the food and beverage (FnB) industry are twice as likely to struggle with addiction.

* What it’s like to keep your FnB job and enter recovery.

* Ben’s Friends came out of the tragedy of Ben’s suicide. He was a chef surrounded by three other sober chefs.

* Todd could not have pulled through without the fellowship and support of others in FnB.

* Addiction wrecking a marriage, divorce, and reconciliation: a story three years in the making.

* The power of fatherhood.

* Will I lose my edge in sobriety?

* Being “lucky to be an addict” and sorry for those who aren’t one. 

* Unreasonable hospitality and esteemable acts.

I’ll place Todd’s bio from the Ben’s Friends website below. You can find his email there if you—or someone you know—is in the FnB industry and could use some help. Ben’s Friends is a welcoming and supportive Home to many who work in this field.

Sobriety Date: 6/6/09

Todd Hunt is the Leader of the Alexandria Group, which started in January 2020. He has been in the restaurant business for over thirty years. Starting out as a cook in high school, then a bartender in college, in sobriety Todd has been a Bar Manager, Operations Manager, and General Manager.

Todd loved the work hard / play hard philosophy of working in restaurants. Unfortunately, it took everything from him, his wife, his kids, and his career.

He found Ben’s Friends through an article about a friend he had known in Charleston years earlier. That friend was Co-Founder Steve Palmer. Ben’s Friends was a Godsend in that it introduced him to a sober F&B community. A tribe within a tribe. It has opened a whole new world in his sobriety, and he directly attributes it to his success through the pandemic. He currently is a General Manager in Old Town, Alexandria working for one of the largest restaurant groups in the country.

[email protected]

Resources from our talk

Ben’s Friends: https://www.bensfriendshope.com/

Their daily Zoom meetings: https://www.bensfriendshope.com/meetings

Books:

Setting the Table, by Danny Meyer

Unreasonable Hospitality: The Remarkable Power of Giving People More Than They Expect, by Will Guidara 

Esteemable Acts: A Guide to Right Living, by Francine Ward

I hope you enjoyed this talk with Todd as much as I did! As always, feel free to reach out if you have questions or comments or are looking for resources.

With Blessings,Randal

On this episode of The Sober Shaman podcast, I’m excited to speak with my long-time friend, Isa Gucciardi, Ph.D. 

Isa is a gifted and compassionate healer, founding director and primary teacher of The Sacred Stream Foundation, and creator of Depth Hypnosis, “a groundbreaking therapeutic model that has won rave reviews from psychotherapeutic and spiritual counselors alike.” Isa teaches and speaks internationally and has published numerous articles, podcast episodes, videos, and the books Coming to Peace and The New Return to the Great Mother.

I think this quote from her website accurately describes how I feel in her presence:

“In the pursuit of consciousness, you are always being asked to get a little bigger than you are comfortable being. 

There is no room for shrinking violets or false humility. 

You have to be willing to be as powerful as you can be at this stage of your evolution.”

Please enjoy our talk on shamanism, Buddhism, healing from addiction, the evolution of soul, and much more.

Blessings,Randal

Click here to watch the video.

Highlights

00:31 Introduction

03:55 Isa’s approach to helping people who struggle with addiction

12:40 Soul Retrieval

14:15 Shamanic journeying for self-empowerment

18:15 The Evolution of Souls with shamanism and Buddhism

27:15 How Buddhism provides separation between taking responsibility and assuming blame

28:50 Shamanism, Power, and the Middle World: It’s a tricky place.

35:13. Dismantling one’s relationship with The Hungry Ghost

39:55 Compassion, the six Loca, and the Middle World Realms

44:10 Are these Buddhist beings compatible with the term “archetype” in psychology?

45:50 The Sacred Stream’s certificate course offers a map to the unseen shamanic realms for practitioners from other fields.

Links

Isa’s work at The Sacred Stream:

“The Foundation of the Sacred Stream is a non-profit organization and school for consciousness studies dedicated to bringing the wisdom of ancient spiritual and healing traditions into the awareness of contemporary society.”

And check out these upcoming courses!

In this episode of The Sober Shaman podcast, we’re going to explore shamanic writing and, specifically, how our Medicine wRites exercise is used for addiction recovery.

Click the pic above to watch on YouTube.

I provide two important answers to the question, “What makes shamanic writing different than responding to a regular writing prompt?”

Then, at the end of the episode, I guide you through a Medicine wRites exercise. If you care to share how it went for you, send me what you’ve got! I’d love to hear about your journey.

Highlights

3:00 What’s the difference between shamanic writing and responding to a regular journaling prompt?

* Spirits are real.

* The Wall of Denial

* Inside of me vs. outside of me in non-ordinary reality

6:11 The shamanic provides separation

* Objectivity

* The Observer

* Perspective

7:05. The Wall in Non-ordinary reality

* But it’s not me.

* Separate from me and my identity

* 100 percent responsibility for its creation and ongoing existence

8:10 Merging with The Muse

* We have helping and compassionate spirits.

* These spirits want to help.

12:04 Morning Pages

* Permission to write authentically

16:40 New Perspectives = New Responsibilities

* It’s a two-way street working with spirit

* Integration

* Payback to the spirits

21:30 Medicine wRites: The Wall of Denial

* A complete guided Medicine wRites exercise taken directly from The Program

* The Program’s Free Preview, including another Medicine wRites exercise, as well as a Medicine Journey, videos, PDF, and other experiential material

You can find The Sober Shaman Podcast on Apple and Spotify, as well as watching it on YouTube from the link in the pic above. If you listen in, please take a moment to rate and review!

If you have thoughts or questions, feel free to reach out to me at: [email protected].

With blessings,Randal

On this episode of The Sober Shaman, I am honored and excited to speak with my longtime friend Beth Beurkens about her shamanic work with The Vision Quest.

Watch on YouTube

Beth has guided people from all backgrounds and stages of life in The Vision Quest.

In today’s conversation, we explore:

* The Vision Quest and how it works.

* Why vision questing is red hot right now.

* How The Vision Quest transformed Beth’s life and led to a greater purpose.

* How Beth became a Vision Quest Guide and teacher of shamanism.

* Signs that someone is being called to a do vision quest.

* Benefits of vision questing online with Beth.

Beth also shares stories of clients who have walked through this threshold and come out the other side with healing, wisdom, and a sense of empowerment.

Also, Beth offers a free Breakthrough Call, which you can set up here: https://breakthroughwithbethbeurkens.as.me/schedule.php

Blessings! Randal

In this episode of The Sober Shaman Podcast, I’m excited to share my conversation with Ben Tuff. 

“In 2012, Ben made the life-altering decision to break free of the hold that the addiction to alcohol had on him. Despite not knowing how to swim, the sport of triathlon arrived quickly in his life.”

He went from not knowing how to swim to making a movie about his 24-mile swim—the length of Narragansett Bay, from Providence to Jamestown, Rhode Island. The movie highlights parallels between this epic undertaking and sobriety.

On the podcast, he and I discuss finding one’s personal medicine, giving back, and evolving attitudes towards addiction and recovery. 

I loved this talk with Ben. His spark of life—or shen, in Traditional Chinese Medicine—shines bright as he shares his personal experience turned profound wisdom. 

I’ve included the video here as well, in case you prefer to watch while you listen.

With Blessings,Randal

Timestamps

00:00 The Movie — Swim Tuff: How I Swam My Way Out of the Bottle

04:00 We’re always looking for shortcuts.

09:50 Winding roads, plateaus, and the grind of finding one’s medicine

14:55 Changing attitudes in recovery and lunch with an old-timer

19:06 Swimming as a practice and meditation

25:30 Connecting to the kids

37:26 Becoming a long-distance swimmer 

In this episode of The Sober Shaman Podcast, I’m excited and honored to share my conversation with.

Jane is an award-winning author, therapist, and educator. She champions and empowers multi-hyphen misfits and counter-cultural weirdos to explore, restore, and turbo-boost their creativity, magic, and mental health. She is the creator of Rebel Therapy, the recipient of the Northern Debut Award from New Writing North, and the author of a new novel, Dear Neighbour.

Our conversation centers the healing medicine of community—a medicine that we both found on the fringes, as part of alternative subcultures.

Many of us in recovery can look back on our first “family, or community, of choice,” as a collection of rebels who came together around a particular identity—perhaps attached to a cause and aimed at a common purpose. 

As with Jane and myself, this community is often intertwined with and fueled by active addiction. More times than not, getting sober requires removing ourselves from that setting. In making this choice, we become an outsider within our community of outsiders. 

Join us as we navigate this path of finding, losing, and ultimately reclaiming community.

Summary

* Introduction of the podcast: 0:07

* Jane is just over four years sober from alcohol. She shares her personal relationship with alcohol and sobriety and what that means for her.

* She shares her experience of being an outsider in an outsider culture, and how that has impacted her work with clients.

* Being an outsider among the outsiders as a therapist: 2:44

* Being an outsider among outsiders in alternative subcultures, and what that looks like today in a professional sense

* How sobriety and subculture have impacted her professional identity

* Shame is a poisonous thing, whether it is related to addiction or other elements of identity.

* Queerness is incredibly important to her and has been her pathway to a community. Being held by that community feels transformational.

* The power of taking baby steps and her book, Dear Neighbour. 10:00

* In Chinese Medicine, everything flows in cycles, and shame subverts the part of the cycle when it’s natural to let go and release.

* The medicine of community

* It has been a joy to hear people's responses to the book and its characters.

* The idea of imprints from people of the past who have been in that place and how we might interact with their energy

* The legacy of activism in a place like Arlington and Woodhouse.

* Pilgrimage to the past: 17:56

* Pilgrimage, identity, creativity, and community

* It was nostalgic and romantic to revisit memories of living in Leeds. It was a chaotic, shambolic, and anarchic time, but it forged beautiful connections that are still alive and present today.

* Writing the manuscript in the pandemic fulfilled a function for her in her imagination.

* The idea of connecting to community, whether from identity or passion, helps with the shame resilience piece.

* From community of family to a found family—a new chosen family

* How community can be a medicine against systems: 24:50

* Why failing within a community is a very different feeling than failing on one’s own

* The idea of queer failure

* The idea of permission to fail and permission to change, including permission to subvert what capitalism wants and expects of us in business

* Giving yourself permission to resist what might be expected, and what magic and medicine can emerge through following that thread

* The importance of making space for failure: 28:58

* Chinese Medicine and the digestion of emotions

* Creating a business focused on bringing joy, community, and serving non-capitalist purposes—then, when it no longer serves those ends, composting it to feed something new

* How to reconcile the split existence: 34:22

* Jane founded a nonprofit that was about championing marginalized writers. She handed it over to two community members who are now making it their own.

* Hiding behind the wounded healer archetype and not showing up for herself, burning out, being resentful, and not doing her own work

* How to reconcile identity and your music: 39:24

* How Randal reconciled his identity with the subculture and community aspect of music, and how that part of his identity lives on

* How he got sober and removed himself from the slippery people and things of music and the music industry

* The mysticism and spirituality of rock-and-roll:. 44:45

* How being raised in New York fed his spirituality, including mysticism and magic, and how being an all-or-nothing kind of guy worked

* The escapism and intoxicating that myth of rock-and-roll

* The beauty of returning to nature, spirituality, and being embodied

Listen in at the top of the page, and find episode links below:

The Sober Shaman is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.

Links

Get Jane’s book, Dear Neighbour, on the publishers website.

Jane Claire Bradley & Rebel Therapy website

“Queer Failure,” by Tara McMullin and Kate Tyson (Strathmann), from the What Works Substack

For me, choosing recovery with full consciousness and whole-hearted intention meant accepting tough consequences. Ones that, until that point, I hadn’t been ready to face.

Specifically: Giving up drugs and alcohol would mean giving up my dream of making a living as a musician. 

There it was. Sobriety equals Not a Musician. 

It doesn’t have to be that way, of course. But for me, it was. I knew that I couldn’t separate the slippery people, places, and things from the music. I knew I couldn’t get and stay sober if I stayed in that field.

Then came the next question—one that I was deathly afraid of facing: “If I’m not a musician, who am I?”

Separating “musician” from “I am” meant disintegration of identity, communion, and community. In addiction, life as a musician and using were inextricably linked. In recovery, the first thing I encountered was profound loss.

Loss of identity. Loss of community. Loss of the Magic Moment that came with performing. Loss of the rituals of communion that passed as “daily life,” but which were actually participation in the cycle of addiction.

All of this meant loss of Home. And while it may have been an unhealthy, dysfunctional Home, it was the only one I had.

Who will I be when I let go of all this and enter recovery?

Today, I’m talking with someone who faced kindred yet very different challenges.

Upon getting sober, Jim Coley made the choice to stay in his career—as a wine professional!

That couldn’t have been easy, but he’s making it work. And, as I say in the Alchemist Recovery Program:

Addiction is predictable, but you are unique.

Listen in by hitting play above or reading the transcript below as Jim shares his unique path and story.

Time Stamps

* 0:00 Getting sober as a wine professional

* 2:30 Identity and dealing with changing identity

* 6:45 The Magic Moment for wine drinkers

* 10:10 Spitting or swallowing? How does sobriety work with tasting wine?

* 13:20 Community: Support from the wine community

* 16:50 Peers: Others who’ve gone before

* 19:05 Yoga: Movement is medicine

* 21:20 Spirits: Choosing yours

Transcript

Randal Lyons  0:00  

Jim Coley. Welcome to the podcast. Thank you for joining me here today, I greatly appreciate you taking the time to talk with me. 

Jim Coley  0:08  

Yeah, thanks for having me.

Randal Lyons  0:10  

 And I think I've got my notes here. I originally sent out questions about the intersection of food, recovery, and spirituality. And you were like, well, it's I'm not exactly in the food business. I'm a wine professional. And so, if you don't mind, you know, I've been in addiction treatment centers treating for 13 years. I've heard of one individual who had your profession, and I'm not sure how he's doing. I hope he's doing well. But you're the only other person I've known. Who has dived into this. Can you tell me how your experience wherever you want to start?

Jim Coley  0:57  

Yeah, obviously, it sometimes confuses people, when I, you know, introduce myself, you know, and what I do and mentioned that I've got four plus years of sobriety now. It made getting sober a really high hurdle. Because I've loved what I've done, I've been doing it for 20 plus years, I got into it as a hobby in my early 20s, I rotated out of I was in the internet 1.0 era in a tech company, and when that bubble burst, the wine shop, I'd been frequenting had offered me a part time job, because they saw that I really loved being around it. And it just became, you know, a career thing for me.

Jim Coley  1:40  

But it also became very much how I defined myself in not just my professional life and my personal life. And so when I realized, going further along that I had a problem, it became something that was that much more challenging to deal with, because it wasn't just, you know, how I manage pain, it was also something that gave me, you know, my living, it gave me a lot of my identity as a professional. I'm, you know, without trying to sound like too much of a big headed guy, I'm prominent in the community, in my town and in my region. And so walking away from that was walking away from at that point, what I thought was, you know, the entire life I've lived for the better part of my mid 20s onward. 

Randal Lyons  2:29  

That is exactly one of the pains that I had. And I did have to walk away because I identified as a musician, and you've got the same color hair as I do there. And so back in the 80s, and the early 90s, when I finally got it, and when it finally stuck for me, you know, people, places and things, all those slippery situations, I could not separate. And it was a real ego dissolution, it was a real dissolution of my identity. And so I was not able to do that. How were you able to navigate that?

Jim Coley  3:06  

Um, I think there are a few things that happened for me, from the spirituality perspective, I'd always been curious about a meditation practice, one of the things alcohol gave to me, and it gave it to me at a relatively young age was it made my head quiet. I was, you know, I was raised in an alcoholic household, troubled family on the inside looked very all American on the outside. But I remember, you know, being originally very afraid of alcohol because of my dad. And then at one point, I was at a party, to felt like belonging, you know, kind of the classic, like, this is how you try your first drink story. And I remember drinking it, and it was the first time I felt comfortable. Socially, I didn't feel like on edge, I didn't feel like I was constantly like, listening to voices in my head telling me that I was, you know, messing up. And, you know, I had a lot of really untreated anxiety for years that I dealt with much later.

Jim Coley  4:12  

But alcohol gave that to me, and I, you know, proceeded to get reportedly drunk that night and wake up with, you know, a hangover the next day, and I didn't actually drink for a while after that. I think somewhere in my head, I was like, wow, that was a little too comfortable that might be that might be scary for even college came around. And you know, I had fun in college as much as I could. And eventually it became something that you know, as I said, it became a lot of my identity, but that was also a way for me to cover that. It was you know, it was anesthetic for me it did help me deal with a lot of spiritual pain.

Jim Coley  4:47  

And at the time, the only way I knew how, but in what turned out to be a really unhealthy way for me. So I remember, probably about a year before I got sober. It was late and leaving my apartment building, I live on the fifth floor, I had a moment of, you know, if the elevator doors opened and there was no elevator there and I stepped in and fell, I could probably be okay with that. And I realized I've been waking up with really dark thoughts for a very long time. And I had, you know, that little moment of clarity like, this isn't good like this is, you know, I'd had some health scares, I'd had some things that were, you know, going in for surgery at one point, then being like, hey, we reran your blood. And there's some things that that are a little concerning that they're not there yet but, we're concerned. So I had run out of room to lie to myself about the physical, emotional and spiritual toll I was taking on myself. And I got onto the internet and got on to a website that talks about insight meditation. And it talked about it in a way that was very useful, very clear, and kind of took away that myth about meditation of like, oh, you're blissful, empty mind.

Jim Coley  6:01  

And I realized, like, oh, it's going to teach me to live with what's going on in my head in a way that I've never really tried before. And so I stumbled through being able to sit still for two minutes, three minutes, five minutes. And then finally being able to hear what was going on in my head, I started to realize how sick I was.

Randal Lyons  6:24  

I was finally able to hear it. Yes. And some of the themes that I'm going through this month and next, from a Chinese medicine point of view, in the cycle of addiction, this is Earth and it was some of those questions I sent you. And last week I wrote about The Magic Moment. And I'm really curious about this with you, in the sense of being wine because wine was never my thing, although alcohol was definitely, we would make fun of The Magic Moment for wine people because the amount of rituals the amount of Jeepers creepers, what a buncha, you know, it's only gotten worse. Wondering, that idea of the moment, right? And all the ritual that goes into the drinking of it...and the moment before you drink it, I'm curious now, looking back, how much awareness do you have around what went into it? And moving forward now and in life, how do you use that awareness to your advantage?

Jim Coley  7:34  

So a couple of things I find really interesting about wine and the reasons I was drawn to it, There were positives, there's a lot of beautiful things around it. You know, it's part of religious rituals. It's part of a deep human culture, it's, I think, one of the ultimate achievements in the human craft of farming and,production of beverages at the level of love and sophistication and knowledge that goes into the people who work vineyards, that in many cases have been there for hundreds of years, and are kind of in their own way, a little bit hallowed sites, is something really beautiful. It's this great intersection of humanity, culture and it's also got the dark side, it can be really disruptive for people who rely on it too much.

Jim Coley  8:23  

There's definitely massive ritual around the opening. Whether it's in our restaurants, you know, the whole Somalia, a presentation of the bottle, opening, decanting, there's very intricate steps that are very, very much like certain religious rituals. And one of the things that, to tie this back to meditation a little bit is that I realized in my tasting, was that there was something very meditative about it for me. There was something in the process of tasting, and smelling and assessing, I was incredibly present.

Jim Coley  9:01  

And that was really cool. It was just once I started actually drinking it, instead of tasting and spitting it, that was where all of a sudden, I'd be off to the races and become anything but present. So it requires now in a professional capacity, if I'm going to taste, it requires, again, a very kind of alertness to the risks, the dangers. While at the same time, I'm assessing something in a professional capacity for me, I think, the point I was talking about the first drink I took there was that, kind of comfort almost the religious like I'm safe, I'm warm here, I'm no longer isolated. I'm now part of, I feel part of a larger community. I feel human in a way that I've never gotten to feel human before. 

Randal Lyons  9:49  

Yeah, there's a reason why these words all go together. Communion community, I feel a part of-  I am at one with and it's interesting that naturally, you felt that there's a reason for all these things. And from what you said there, do you nowadays taste and spit out? Or how does that work for you? 

Jim Coley  10:17  

That works for me. I maintained a very, very professional veneer throughout, my drinking days. And one of the things that also told me that it was time was, a couple of things that started to slip, I started doing things in public I'd never done before. But I was always in a professional capacity, like one of those, like, if I'm at a tasting, you taste and spit, you're representing the profession, you're not supposed to get, you know, sloppy drunk in public. So for me, that was actually not that difficult.

Jim Coley  10:52  

I'm someone who's not anonymous, obviously, My full name is on the Ben's Friends site. I've chosen as a professional to be very clear with the people around me that like, Hey, I don't drink. If there's an event, there's an after party after an event I attend, I'm probably not going. So I've become very clear about here are the parts of the rituals as a professional that I can do safely. And I'll be upfront, I don't recommend this lightly to a lot of people, I think a lot of professionals will struggle with it, it's not an easy path. I was fortunate that I hit a point where I realized there was simply no more juice to squeeze. My bottom in a sense wasn't a low bottom, I wasn't homeless, or I didn't get DUIs, I didn't commit vehicular manslaughter but I also realized that I couldn't go forward like this.

Jim Coley  11:59  

And I wanted to be free, I wanted to, you know, as they say, free of the spiritual bondage and put myself in. And I got that. And I realized that the sacrifice to use - kind of another religious, rich, whole spiritual word, that what I would have to give up was simply the worst parts of being a wine professional, which for me were, getting drunk. And that really wasn't much of a sacrifice in the grand scheme of things. By the time I was done, I wanted it to be done so badly. But there were still lots of things I really liked about it. So being able to separate them, I think, is not easy. But I've managed to do it. And I'm, you know, I remain very aware of the risks. that's one of the reasons I stay involved in a sobriety community, because it's been four years as a different person. Now, I don't have as many vivid memories of raging out, or making foolish mistakes, or being hauled below and opening bottle number two, and being like - this is killing me slowly. It's not as visceral a memory. And so seeing other people come in, and that the first step meeting, they talk about a day seeing that, for me, keeps the dangerous fresh for me. 

Randal Lyons  13:13  

Indeed. Would you say that the community that you're now in is a pretty good replacement for the community you used to be in?  Or it hasn't really changed in the sense of your professional and you're still doing basically what you've been doing - and you're not part of that "first drink" community you were talking about? 

Jim Coley  13:45  

So the people in the in the wine community have been incredibly supportive. As I said, I was very open about the journey I was taking. I think it's fries some people, but they've been incredibly supportive. I can't say enough good things about the wine reps who call on me, the wine distributors I work with, they all kind of respect the choice and are very, very supportive. I think if I actually like swallowed wine in front of people in the profession, they probably freak out worse than I might. 

Jim Coley  14:19  

But at the same time, there's now parts of the world that just aren't for me anymore. And that's okay. You know, the nights of like, hey, we're wrapping up, we're gonna go bond over ordering a couple of really cool bottles off, the wine list at restaurant X, it just doesn't make sense for me. And even though I'm still a restaurant owner, and I still am around it being around people who are inebriated reIated isn't that fun for me. And it's not like, Man, I wish I was there. It's just not fun for me, because it's just not who I am. 

Randal Lyons  14:59  

Yeah, you don't need to be part of that club anymore. 

Jim Coley  15:04  

And in terms of a sober community, the Ben's friends thing was great. I became a national leader, and for those just so I make clear what that is. Ben's friends is a service industry sobriety group on the part of we meet online with their local meetings in many cities. It's a support group that isn't necessarily a program of recovery the way AA is, but it's incredible support for people who have questions about how do I deal with being a bartender and not wanting to drink anymore.

Jim Coley  15:40  

And the people I found, there were people that were were great for me. I made more friends in 2022, and COVID and a little bit after that then I probably made in the five years leading up to getting sober, just because I was so isolated spiritually. You know, I've traveled across the country now to meet up with people I've met through zoom meetings, like the one we're on now. And one of the great things is the friendships I made online, through video conferencing that is just as natural in real life.And it's great, it's great, you know, being able to pick up the phone, and know people....I mean, in therapeutic situations, people who haven't wrestled with addiction are helpful and I see a professional therapist, and she's great...But if you haven't been there the dark humor and the weird moments of struggle...it's great to have people who are just like, Yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about.

Randal Lyons  16:44  

And on that, did you have somebody who you were able to look up to?  When you decided to come clean and stay in the business, was there someone else you knew wha said, "I'm going to hang on to this profession?" I would imagine that there were many people around you saying that's not a good idea. Did you have people who were like, not only supportive, but an example of somebody who went before you on this path and was like, Hey, this is how you do it?

Jim Coley  17:18  

There's a master of wine, who's who's remained sober Tim...kind of drawn a blank on his last name. Feel bad. He's probably the most prominent person, prominent sober person in the wine business. Tim Hani, I think, I knew he'd done it. There weren't a ton of examples at that point. And I mean, I also say that I go to a pretty open minded home group when I went in, I don't go as regularly anymore. But they were all kind of people whowere  like, that's gonna be tough. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, I realize I'm taking on a little extra challenge. I had some really good, good people give me some really, good little tidbits of advice. And honestly, the toughest thing I think I faced was, maybe it wasn't necessarily my profession, but like, how introspective and how in my head I could be. There was a guy who had long term sobriety and was the first speaker to speak to me at a meeting, I went to a speaker meeting and afterwards, after I'd shared a couple of times, he came over, and he's like, hey, you know, you seem like you're doing really well. I think it was about two months in. And he's like, that's cool and I just want to offer a little bit of unsolicited advice, which is, you seem very intelligent. This can sometimes be harder for people who are smart. 

Randal Lyons  18:41  

Yeah. 

Jim Coley  18:42  

And I just want you to keep that at the forefront of your mind as you're going through this. And it was honestly probably the best piece of advice I got. Because there are moments where I'm like, You're in your head, get out of it! Get out of it. Go do something active, go be a dumb guy for a minute and just get out of your head. And that's really been helpful.

Randal Lyons  19:01  

Which brings me around to...you say you have a also a yoga practice. And I would imagine that is a pretty good way to just, "You know what, it's time to stop all this thinking. Let's get into some movement."

Jim Coley  19:17  

Yeah, yeah, that was. It's been great for me and I tried on and off for years. I had a very unhealthy cycle of drinking too much, working out too much, injuring myself, forcing myself to you know, doing things like giving myself tendinitis or something like putting on weight because I was drinking too much. So I had a very unhealthy relationship with food, alcohol ,exercise in a circular pattern and it's really honestly been a couple of years into sobriety that I finally got, I think healthy with everything.

Jim Coley  19:55  

I don't push myself too far. I've realized that I'm healthy for my age, but like I gotta be patient with things like, "I'm not there" and there are certain positions that I can't force my body into. And you know, in terms of both yoga and meditation, there's talk of the beginner's mind. And that was something that was incredibly liberating for me. Being in the wine world and being regarded as an expert in some pretty cool, you know, hard to access corners of the wine world, coming at something where I had to approach it with humility. That it was going to take me a while to learn and that I was never going to be insanely good at that, even if I got better at it, there are always going to be people who are more capable and that the people who are more capable we're also willing to be like, that it's not the important thing - that doesn't matter that much. Let go of that. 

Jim Coley  20:51  

All that process has been great for my physical and mental health. I feel probably better now than I have in my adult life. Sometimes I do 20 minute practices, depending on how my day breaks up. I did a half an hour this morning. I've been on a yoga retreat that was a two week thing. It was a little more intensive, but it's been wonderful for not just my sobriety, but my general mental and spiritual health. 

Randal Lyons  21:19  

That's wonderful. Good to hear that. One of the questions I get asked is, "Okay, Randy, you know, I do this yoga thing, it's really popular, I do this meditation thing, it's really popular. And the yoga helps quiet my mind, and I get to do physical stuff, and then the meditation, okay, that quiets my mind, and I get to do mental stuff but...I'm having difficulty. Where's the spirituality? Where are the spirits in this?" And I'm curious if you have a take on that. If you have a personal spirit you'd like to share, and how that works for you? I'm always curious as to what spirit people feel closest to.

Jim Coley  22:09  

So religious wise, I was raised in a fairly lacks Christian background, Episcopalian. My mom attended, my dad didn't. So I have that as kind of a backdrop. And I like a lot of Buddhist thought, I'm a big fan of Jack Kornfield. I think he makes a lot of Eastern philosophy very accessible to a western mind 

Randal Lyons  22:35  

With you the on that one!

Jim Coley  22:36  

Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, love, love his work. It was one of the things I found very liberating, in a way, is that you can choose, and that's, you know, in terms of coming in through the higher power, I've seen a lot of people wrestle with that. And it was odd for me, like I never really got hung up on it. I didn't have a bad evangelical background, I didn't have religious figures in my life who were abusive. So I started to understand when people come in to the program and hear higher power, that there's a barrier, or hurdle and that's something to really overcome. And I respect people who struggle with that and get anywhere they can.

Jim Coley  23:20  

But I had pretty early on, even when I was drinking, like you get to choose. And that kind of freedom is really challenging. But I was able to choose who I was. And that kind of gave me a sense of responsibility. And so I, I fail regularly, but I strive to be a kind person. I strive to just alleviate suffering around me and whether that's following Buddha, it could be, but for me, that's been the most important thing is having spiritual principles I can articulate myself and follow as best I can.

Jim Coley  24:03  

And then everything else around it, you know, like meditation as a ritual that gets me to a place where I'm more aware of that is helpful. Yoga, same thing, picking up a text, you know, whether it's Kornfield, or listening to..I'll mispronounce his name, but Tich Naht Han, talk about spirituality, those put me right back into places where I'm like, oh, yeah, you know, that's it, it's worth being kinder. It's worth being compassionate with myself with others. And that's kind of where I am with that.

Randal Lyons  24:38  

I think it was the Dalai Lama, or who gets quoted for it, when he was asked, "What is your spirituality? And I think he says, kindness is my spirituality (Ed. the quote is, “Kindness is my religion”). And it just kind of sums up the whole thing.

Jim Coley  24:54  

And yeah, I mean, some days are easier than others some day now. But again, that's that's part of what attention and yoga and all those things. Some days are better than others.

Randal Lyons  25:04  

And I feel the kindness emanating from you. It was kind of you to join me for this time and share your thoughts. I really appreciate it, Jim! 

Jim Coley  25:15  

Yeah, my pleasure, it was great. Great to meet you and great to talk to you.