Dierdre Wolownick is the oldest woman to have climbed El Capitan in Yosemite National Park. She’s also a teacher, a musician, a marathon runner — and the mother of renowned rock climber Alex Honnold.

On this episode, we talk with Dierdre about what it was like raising a kid like Alex.

We discuss her efforts to keep Alex safe as a child, without stifling his love for climbing. We talk about the difference between risk and consequence. And we explore Dierdre’s own journey to becoming a climber, and how learning about her son’s passion changed their relationship.