All at Once

Presenting Sponsor: Alan and Beth Stanfield, Stanfield Properties

Meghan Tschanz, producer of Faith and Feminism and author of Women Rising, shares her story of growing up in the conservative evangelical church and her journey into advocacy for women’s rights as a Christian feminist.

Meghan tells us about the purity culture teaching she received as a young girl growing up in the evangelical church.  Like many young Christian women, she was taught that it was her responsibility to keep men and boys from sinning sexually by wearing baggy clothes to cover her body.  She tells us about a sexual assault she experienced at age 13.  At the time, she felt so guilty and ashamed that she failed to stop the perpetrator from assaulting her that she didn’t tell anyone.  She explains that the theology she grew up with taught her that sexual assault was her fault. Meghan says the idea that men are supposed to be in charge of everything except their sexual urges enables sexual abuse and sexual assault.

As a young adult, Meghan became a missionary to serve sexually exploited women.  As she encountered women from all over the world who had experienced sexual abuse because of the same teachings she grew up with, she realized that the abuse is due to systemic patriarchy.  She explains how the theology of the evangelical church enables the abuse of women by teaching that women are less than men.  The gospel should be liberating for all people, and yet the church is one of the greatest upholders of patriarchy.  

Meghan shares about her experience talking with a John (a man buying sex) during her time as a missionary.  She shares the alarming similarities between the way he talked about women and the way she had grown up hearing evangelical pastors talk about women.  The man demonstrated a perceived entitlement to respect from women.  It wasn’t about sex; it was about power, domination, and control.

Meghan tells us that in evangelical culture, we are trained to see problems on an individual level, and we often do not pay attention to systemic problems.  Men abusing their power in the church is a common occurrence, and yet Christians keep writing off these instances as individual events and not systemic problems. We need to acknowledge that the system of patriarchy is causing harm and enabling abuse. Christianity has been used throughout history to oppress people groups and to gain power under the guise of goodness and holiness.  However, there has also always been a church of liberators fighting against the oppression of the marginalized.  

Music by Kate Short; Instagram @kate_tshort

Gold Sponsor Lary’s Designs

Silver Texan Bank, Ink’d Designs, and Funky Monkey

Bronze Judy Wiggins, Allstate

Become a monthly supporter– LINK TO PATREON

Follow us on Instagram and subscribe to our newsletter.

Episode produced and edited by Kelly Browning; show notes written by Sarah McDuffee, Marketing Director: Robyn Boren, Social Media Manager: Molly Baize, Episode mixed by Isabelle Le.

www.allatonce.us

Presenting Sponsor: Alan and Beth Stanfield, Stanfield Properties

Victims and survivors of abuse can find validation, healing, and hope in stories told by others.  Kelsey Golz joins us to share her story of abuse.  She has written and published her complete survivor story in her book Refuse to be Silenced.  Which of us will break free? Which of us will speak up?

The underlying factor in abuse is control.  Abusers slowly groom victims to accept more and more abuse.  Kelsey talks about gaslighting: how her abuser would do something harmful and then claim he didn’t do it or downplay what he did. Her abuser said things like: Why did you make me do that? That never happened. You’re crazy. Abuse is confusing and disorienting because abusive people condition you not to trust yourself and your own perception of reality. 

Abusers wear masks.  The image an abuser creates is visible to society, and it adds pressure to make the relationship work because of the fear of looking crazy if you break off a seemingly perfect relationship.  

Abusers subtly test boundaries to see how much you will forgive.  Kelsey talks about how she forgave so easily and how the boundary violations became more frequent and more harmful.  This is a common relational dynamic in cases of abuse.  You can forgive and simultaneously walk away. 

Kelsey talks about how she subconsciously learned to adjust her behavior to the expectations of her abuser. The manipulation started out subtly and grew worse and worse.  Kelsey shares how she knew he would treat her badly if she didn’t do what he wanted, but that he would treat her better if she complied.  We talk about how nonphysical abuse is real and incredibly damaging. It paves the way for more overt forms of abuse down the road by systematically breaking down the victim psychologically until they have no voice.

One of the most dangerous times for a victim is right after leaving the abusive relationship because the abuser is feeling a loss of control.

There is a myth that abuse only happens to those who are weak, but abuse can happen to anyone. It takes an incredibly strong person to survive an abusive relationship, whether they are in the process of leaving, have left, or are still being abused. However, there is often shame and embarrassment in admitting that you are being abused.

God sees victims of abuse.  We are never alone because God is with us.  Kelsey talks about how she experienced God’s comfort and incredible peace even in the darkest moments she faced.  She shares how God’s presence and truth helped her survive and eventually leave the abusive relationship.

Music by Kate Short; Instagram @kate_tshort

Gold Sponsor Lary’s Designs Silver Texan Bank, Ink’d Designs, and Funky Monkey Bronze Judy Wiggins, Allstate

Become a monthly supporter– LINK TO PATREON

Follow us on Instagram and subscribe to our newsletter.

Episode produced and edited by Kelly Browning; show notes written by Sarah McDuffee, Marketing Director: Robyn Boren, Social Media Manager: Molly Baize, Episode mixed by Isabelle Le.

www.allatonce.us

Presenting Sponsor: Alan and Beth Stanfield, Stanfield Properties

It is time to end patriarchy and free women. Dr. Beth Allison Barr, associate professor of history, associate dean of the Graduate School at Baylor University, and author of The Making of Biblical Womanhood joins us in this episode to talk about biblical womanhood and patriarchy.

Beth shares her experience as a pastor’s wife in churches with complementarian theology and traditional gender roles.  When we add patriarchy to the gospel, it becomes fragile. Patriarchy puts men in the place of God.  When men are put on a pedestal and they inevitably fail, faith crumbles.  However, although humans can weaken the power of the gospel by trying to add to it, God is not fragile. 

Beth talks about the chapter on Paul in her book. Her goal is not to tell us how to interpret Paul, but to share that there are valid and faithful interpretations of the text that do not involve the submission of women to men.  She shows us how Paul looks different when placed in historical context and when read with an understanding of Paul’s rhetorical strategies.  We explore the question: what if we are wrong about female subordination? 

We discuss the impact of the exclusive use of translations like the ESV in Christian communities.  We talk about how Christian women and girls are taught to be submissive, quiet, and even tolerant of mistreatment.  We talk about the shame involved with not adhering to gender roles. Due to teachings about gender roles and purity culture, many women have internalized beliefs that they are less than men and are somehow responsible for the abuse they experience from men.  The impact of #MeToo and #ChurchToo is that many women are starting to realize they have been victimized.  

Beth says complementarianism doesn’t cause abuse, but it enables it.  Complementarian theology enables women to be treated as less than men – as though women are not created as much in the image of God as men are.  When theological beliefs about biblical womanhood place women in a place of inferiority and precarity, it is dangerous.

Music by Kate Short; Instagram @kate_tshort

Gold Sponsor Lary’s Designs

Silver Texan Bank, Ink’d Designs, and Funky Monkey

Bronze Judy Wiggins, Allstate

Become a monthly supporter– LINK TO PATREON

Follow us on Instagram and subscribe to our newsletter.

Episode produced and edited by Kelly Browning; show notes written by Sarah McDuffee, Marketing Director: Robyn Boren, Social Media Manager: Molly Baize, Episode mixed by Isabelle Le.

www.allatonce.us

Presenting Sponsor: Alan and Beth Stanfield, Stanfield Properties

Lifted out of context, this story is often told with implications about the woman’s sin and shame due to her presumed life choices.  It is commonly used to demonstrate how Jesus will forgive anyone, even those with messy lives and deeply sinful pasts. Wendy draws our attention to contextual details that offer a dramatically different lens for interpretation. It becomes evident that the woman’s circumstances likely had little to do with her sin, and we notice how Jesus approached her with acceptance and empathy rather than judgment.

We discuss the importance of reading scripture with fresh eyes rather than approaching it from the viewpoint of what we already think we know.  Negative bias, both in general and specifically towards female characters, can significantly influence what we take away from passages of scripture. When we interpret with a lens that holds a positive view of women, we see a different picture than when we interpret with a negative view of women.

It is a gift to learn from others who have different interpretive lenses.

We discuss the themes of shame and blame heaped on the woman that we have heard taught with this passage, and the personal impact of that negative view of the woman for each of us. In contrast, we talk about what we see in the story when we put aside our negative assumptions about her and pay attention to what is actually in the text.  The woman was both a truth seeker and a truth-teller. Jesus gave her dignity and engaged with her in a deep theological discussion.

Jesus’ posture as he approached this woman was gentle, loving, and dignifying. There is healing power in meeting those who have been marginalized, abused, or traumatized with empathy and acceptance.

Music by Kate Short; Instagram @kate_tshort

Gold Sponsor Lary’s Designs

Silver Texan Bank, Ink’d Designs, and Funky Monkey

Bronze Judy Wiggins, Allstate

Become a monthly supporter– LINK TO PATREON

Follow us on Instagram and subscribe to our newsletter.

Episode produced and edited by Kelly Browning; show notes written by Sarah McDuffee, Marketing Director: Robyn Boren, Social Media Manager: Molly Baize, Episdoe mixed by Isabelle Le.

www.allatonce.us

Presenting Sponsor: Alan and Beth Stanfield, Stanfield Properties

Mary Demuth, author of We Too joins us to continue this conversation. Together, we explore how to create safer environments for the prevention of abuse. 

We discuss the way accounts of sexual assault in the Bible are interpreted.  Often, stories that describe sexual assault in the Bible are talked about in ways that shift the focus onto something other than the abuse that took place.  Sometimes the passages are even talked about in ways that are victim-blaming.  Mary talks about viewing these passages descriptively, which clearly shows God’s condemnation of sexual violence.  Throughout the Bible, there are always serious consequences for sexual violence. 

Power abuse and consent cannot coexist.  When the person with more power wants something, the person with less power often has a lot to lose if they say no.  We see this play out when an adult abuses a child, when a spiritual leader abuses a congregation member, and when a husband abuses a wife.  Specifically, regarding rape within marriage, teaching that a woman’s body does not belong to her but to her husband promotes rape culture by nullifying the need for consent.  When you have a system where women’s voices are silenced, that system is rife for abuse.  

Trauma has a significant impact on a person.  This is often evident in the way a trauma survivor shows up in a community with a significant amount of fear and distrust.  Survivors of the trauma of abuse need to be met by followers of Jesus with acceptance and empathy.  Unfortunately, many of the most common responses to survivors of sexual violence are harmful and detrimental to healing.  Mary talks about why victim-blaming is such a common occurrence.  

We discuss the baffling truth that perpetrators often receive more grace in churches than victims of sexual abuse.  We must listen to and love the survivor first.  But what about the perpetrator? Mary explains that to love a perpetrator is to tell the truth and to seek justice and consequences for what they have done.  Love is not covering over sin; love is exposing sin.  Church leadership and culture must care more about humility and the exposure of sin than about preserving reputations.  

Sexual assault and many kinds of abuse are not only sins, but also crimes.  It is always necessary and important to report the abuse of a minor to the proper authorities.  Whenever possible, it is important to respect the agency of adult victims to decide whether to report crimes committed against them.  Reporting can be a very positive step to take for many, and it can help prevent predators from abusing others, but there are often complicating factors, and the victim’s right to decide needs to be respected.  You can visit www.rainn.org for more information about reporting assault.

We at the All At Once Podcast and Mary Demuth love the church.  Our common goal is to bring truth and healing where it is desperately needed.  We, as followers of Jesus, need to do better as we respond to cases of abuse in our congregations and communities.

www.marydemuth.com

Music by Kate Short; Instagram @kate_tshort

Gold Sponsor Lary’s Designs Silver Texan Bank, Ink’d Designs, and Funky Monkey

Bronze Judy Wiggins, Allstate

Become a monthly supporter– LINK TO PATREON

Follow us on Instagram and subscribe to our newsletter.

Episode produced, edited, and mixed by Kelly Browning; show notes written by Sarah McDuffee, Marketing Director: Robyn Boren, Social Media Manager: Molly Baize

www.allatonce.us

Presenting Sponsor: Alan and Beth Stanfield, Stanfield Properties

Mary Demuth, a survivor of sexual abuse and author of We Too, joins us to talk about what it is like to build a healthy family as a person who has experienced abuse and trauma.

We also talk about our struggle with the voices who have tried to silence us when we have had something important to say, and how those voices sometimes seem to echo inside our heads creating fear that inhibits us from speaking up. 

We define and discuss the control tactic of spiritual abuse, and how as women, we are often taught to acquiesce even when something is damaging to ourselves.

As followers of Jesus, we need to equip ourselves to respond well when someone discloses abuse.  When they don’t respond well, secondary trauma is added to the initial trauma of the abuse.  Mary explains that “happy world syndrome” is often responsible for the poor responses to abuse victims from those around them – people don’t want to believe that bad things happen in our world.

In fact, people would often rather shame the person bringing the bad news or ignore it while letting abuse continue than acknowledge it to be true.

We have forgotten that God is on the side of the downtrodden.  Refusing to choose a side in instances of abuse is choosing to enable the perpetrator.  If we want to be more like Jesus, we can’t close our eyes to abuse.

Come back next week to hear more from Mary about specific scriptures regarding sexual abuse and how the church should respond!

www.marydemuth.com

Music by Kate Short; Instagram @kate_tshort

Gold Sponsor Lary’s Designs

Silver Texan Bank, Ink’d Designs, and Funky Monkey

Bronze Judy Wiggins, Allstate

Become a monthly supporter– LINK TO PATREON

Follow us on Instagram and subscribe to our newsletter.

Show notes were written by Sarah McDuffee, Marketing Director: Robyn Boren, Social Media Manager: Molly Baize

www.allatonce.us

Presenting Sponsor: Alan and Beth Stanfield, Stanfield Properties

Jason Porterfield joins us to kick off season two! Jason’s first book, Fight Like Jesus, is available for preorder on his website, jasonporterfield.com. In his book, he talks about the injustice in our world and biblical peacemaking in the midst of it.

In this first episode of the season, we talk about the concept of power. What is power?  How did Jesus encounter power? How did Jesus use power? How do we see power playing a role in American church culture today?

Jason proposes that if we truly want to be peacemakers, we can start by studying the greatest peacemaker’s greatest week; we can examine the choices Jesus made in the week leading up to His death. On Palm Sunday before Jesus’ death, the Bible says He was weeping – because the people had missed the point of peace.  We are still missing the point of peace today.

Jesus sets the example for us about how to view and use power. Philippians 2:6 says that Jesus did not consider equality with God something to be grasped – when He alone had the right to consider Himself equal with God.  Listen to this episode to hear what this looks like in marriage in parenting.

As Jesus was dying, he said, “Forgive them for they know not what they do” (Luke 23:34), Jesus demonstrated forgiveness while standing against abuse. It is important to hold forgiveness and justice in tension simultaneously.  

So what does peacemaking look like within systems of power abuse based on the example of Jesus?  Listen to this episode to find out!

Music by Kate Short; Instagram @kate_tshort

Gold Sponsor Lary’s Designs

Silver Texan Bank and Ink’d Designs and Funky Monkey

Bronze Judy Wiggins, Allstate

Click here to see all the ways you can support us! 

Follow us on Instagram and subscribe to our newsletter.

Show notes were written by Sarah McDuffee, Marketing Director: Robyn Boren, Social Media Manager: Molly Baize

Presenting Sponsor: Alan and Beth Stanfield, Stanfield Properties

Support us monthly or give a one-time gift! Buy our merch!

“For me, this is everything hard I’ve ever experienced in my life… all the trauma and conflict I’ve faced, materializing before my eyes and being put on display for all to see… and that’s hard for me.” -Kelly Browning

Joining us in season two as a cohost is Sarah McDuffee.

Check back here on September 22 for our first full episode of season two.

Here’s our season two guest lineup, y’all! CAN YOU EVEN BELIEVE IT?!

• Jason Porterfield, author of Fight Like Jesus
• Mary Demuth, author of We Too
• Wendy Scott, local preacher
• Dr. Beth Allison Barr, author of The Making of Biblical Womanhood
• Kelsey Golz, author of Refuse to be Silenced
• Meghan Tschanz, author of Women Rising
• Soraya Chemaly, author of Rage Becomes Her
• David Bridges, pastor of Kelly’s local church
• Janis Street, guest preacher and oil and gas executive

Music written, produced, and performed by Kelly’s dear friend Kate Short. Piano accompaniment by Kate’s brother, and also Kelly’s dear friend, Brendan Short. Kate wrote this song in response to season one while also reading Searching for Sunday by Rachel Held Evans.

Platinum Sponsor: Lary’s Designs

Gold: Texan Bank and Funky Monkey, Friendswood

Bronze Sponsor: Judy Wiggins, Allstate

Do you get tired of the same messages about motherhood and womanhood? Join Kelly Browning and Laura Porterfield as they discuss a fresh perspective of Mother’s Day and Biblical womanhood in a live recording of their co-sermon they delivered on Mother’s Day. This is Kelly’s first time teaching in a church that has males and females present.

Season two is coming this fall! Get ready by subscribing to our newsletter!

Instagram @allatonce.podcast @kellynicolebrowning

Twitter @BrowningKelly

Link to sermon slides

www.allatonce.us

When we silence a part of the Church, then the Church and the world will fail to see the fullness of who God is.

Laura Porterfield joins us today to discuss Proverbs 31 and how it has often been used to prescribe a gender role for women to faithfully morph themselves into.  This kind of rigid thinking produces shame and the feeling of being deeply flawed when a woman doesn’t fit that mold.

As we look at the many examples of Godly women specifically named in the Bible, we notice that they are a very diverse group of women.  They do not conform to a single list of traits or duties, but they each use their unique gifts and circumstances to bring glory to God through faith and obedience.  Interestingly, one thing that they did have in common is that they were not quiet.  They were brave and strong.  

Many people see this passage as a guide to women.  It is actually a guide to a son from his mother on what to look for in a wife.  People also use the passage as a sort of checklist for women, but it is not meant to be a comprehensive list of character traits.  In our current Christian culture, we also tend to focus on certain parts of the passage that fit the mold of our prescribed role for women, while skimming over traits that do not fit the mold easily.  

Please consider giving monthly through Patreon to support our work and follow us on Instagram: @allatonce.podcast 

Living fully into who God made you to be, without feeling like we need to hold back on the ways we are gifted or the talents that we have is God’s design for us.

Nowhere in this chapter is this woman defined by her husband.  She is her own person. A serious and common misconception is that a Godly woman’s spiritual life, economic life, and daily life are dependent on and revolve around her husband. This is not the case with the Proverbs 31 woman.  Her husband has full confidence in her and praises and honors her.  

She parents by example, which is so much more powerful than just talking.

When we say that women can’t speak in church or can’t teach men, then those aspects of who God is are hidden, and our theology becomes distorted.  There are aspects of who God is that we can learn from people who see different sides of Him.

There is no one way to be a woman of God any more than there is one way to be a man of God.  The summation of the law is to love God and to love your neighbor as yourself.

There are so many ways to be a Godly man and woman. We hope this episode frees you and is a part of your healing and reconciliation back to your Creator. You are loved and celebrated, just as you are, wherever you are. 

Presenting Sponsor: Alan and Beth Stanfield of Stanfield Properties

Gold Sponsor: Sparkly Elephant Sewing Lounge

Bronze Sponsor: Ascribe Designs

Ad featured in this episode: Box and Sparrow

Music: “A New Day” by Michelle Raybourn

If you’d like to support the show outside of financial means, please write a review on Apple Podcasts, download the episodes, and share the show with your friends. 

Become an email subscriber to be the first to know the deets on season two!