Alt Goes Mainstream

Welcome back to the Alt Goes Mainstream podcast.

We were live from AGM’s RIA Field Trip at Brookfield’s New York office at Brookfield Place with Oaktree Managing Director and Co-Portfolio Manager Danielle Poli to unpack why private credit is at a crossroads and why dispersion is growing.

Danielle has a unique perch to form a developed view on the current state of private credit. She sits at the intersection of public and private credit, providing her with perspectives on where opportunities and risks lie across the liquidity spectrum.

Danielle is a founding member of Oaktree’s Global Credit strategy and its Investment Committee, which was established in 2017. She’s been an important contributor to its growth into a scaled multi-asset credit platform. She previously led Oaktree’s product specialist group, which she helped build into a global team supporting credit, private equity, and real estate. She joined Oaktree in 201 and has nearly two decades of experience in private markets. She has been named to Barron’s list of the 100 Most Influential Women in U.S. Finance.

Danielle and I had a fascinating conversation about the current state of private credit, where cracks might be emerging and where to find pockets of opportunity amid the dislocations. We covered:

Why is boring beautiful in private credit?

Where are we in the credit cycle?

Why it’s important to have a contrarian mindset.

Where, why, and how dispersion is rising in credit.

How to underwrite software investments post-AI.

Why asset-backed finance can be a diversifier.

Why now could be the time to prepare for opportunistic and rescue lending opportunities, as maturities are fast approaching.

How to balance public and private credit investing.

Thanks, Danielle, for sharing your wisdom, expertise, and passion about private credit.

Thanks for reading Alt Goes Mainstream! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work - writing and podcasting about the convergence of private markets and private wealth since December 2020.

A word from AGM podcast sponsor, Ultimus Fund Solutions

This episode of Alt Goes Mainstream is brought to you by Ultimus, the full-service fund administrator and transfer agent powering asset managers in private and public markets. As alts go mainstream, you need real expertise to handle complex fund structures, connect with key distribution partners, and handle sophisticated compliance, reporting, and transparency demands.

That’s Ultimus: high-tech, high-touch solutions for over 450 clients and 2,500 funds with $775B in assets under administration. Backed by an expert team of over 1,200 employees, they place client service at the core of their business, helping you navigate complexity during your fund structuring or launch and then supporting you through every stage of growth. Whether you’re already in the market or thinking about entering private wealth, you can trust their team’s deep expertise in retail alternatives to help you reach your goals.

Learn more: ultimusfundsolutions.com or email [email protected].

We thank Ultimus for their support of alts going mainstream.

Show Notes

00:00 Live Podcast Intro

00:17 Contrarian Mindset

00:34 Intro to our Sponsor, Ultimus Fund Solutions

01:51 Where Private Credit Stands Today

02:13 Market Testing And Bifurcation

02:34 Private Credit Evolves Beyond Corporate

03:33 Danielle Poli Background

04:23 Why Liquidity Matters Now

04:49 Dislocation And Price Discovery

04:59 Structuring Power In Private Markets

05:22 Risk Return And Spread Compression

05:51 Paid For Illiquidity Plus Covenants

06:16 Asset-Backed Finance Diversifier

06:52 Corporate Vs Asset-Backed Underwriting

07:20 Why Ring-Fenced Cash Flows Win

07:51 How Allocators Fund ABF

08:11 Credit Taking Share From Equities

09:12 Tough Direct Lending Vintages

09:49 Rates Shock And Leverage Reality

10:10 AI Disrupts Software Credit

11:09 Oaktree Underweight Software

12:32 Underwriting Software Post AI

13:31 Inside The Investment Committee

14:35 Selling Rallies And Staying Humble

15:07 Busted Converts Playbook

15:55 Liquid Credit Helps Private Discipline

17:07 Why Do Both Public And Private

17:40 Transparency And Extend or Pretend

18:58 PIK Interest Red Flags

19:58 Stress Under The Surface

20:14 Triple C Spreads And Maturity Wall

21:27 Why Dispersion Is Rising

21:55 Risk Migrates To Loans And Private

23:00 Oaktree Contrarian Playbook

23:22 Complacency Vs Real Tailwinds

24:34 Brookfield Platform AI Insights

25:40 Exuberant Financing Warning Signs

26:28 Equity Vs Credit For AI Buildout

27:10 Allocating Between Equity And Credit

27:52 Valuations Signal Lower Equity Returns

29:14 What CIOs Should Tell Clients

30:00 Rescue Lending Opportunity Ahead

31:39 Signals And Timing The Cycle

32:04 Hybrid Products And Barbell Allocations

32:36 Core Income Plus ABF Deals

33:06 Memo Title - Boring Is Beautiful

34:30 Closing Thanks And Outro

Join over 16,600 Substack subscribers & followers and 44,000 LinkedIn and podcast followers who are thought leaders and executives from top private markets firms and wealth management like Blackstone, Apollo, Ares, KKR, EQT, Carlyle, Blue Owl, CVC, TPG, Brookfield, Vista, Goldman Sachs, J.P. Morgan, BlackRock, Fidelity, iCapital, Franklin Templeton, Nuveen, Hg, Permira, Stonepeak, Hamilton Lane, StepStone, Partners Group, General Atlantic, Hightower, Focus Financial, Corient, Cerity Partners, and more.

Welcome back to the Alt Goes Mainstream podcast.

Building community is central to enabling an industry to grow. There are few better ways to build community and foster trusted relationships than to break bread.

As the wealth channel continues to expand its adoption of private markets, peer-to-peer learning becomes ever more important. Sharing experiences and perspectives is what will help the wealth channel adopt private-market solutions thoughtfully and responsibly.

That’s what happened at Franklin Templeton’s Private Markets RIA Advisory Council event and dinner at BLACKBARN recently. Bread was broken. Relationships were built.

We also found time to record a podcast around a dinner table with Franklin Templeton’s Head of Private Markets - Americas Wealth Management Dave Donahoo and Summit Wealth Group’s CIO Chelsea Ganey. The discussion granted access to a direct, honest, and raw window into perspectives on how asset managers and wealth managers can work together to educate one another and help move the industry forward. And yes, bread was broken before and after the podcast.

Please enjoy this fantastic conversation with Dave and Chelsea on the state of private markets and private wealth and how both asset managers and wealth managers can balance customization and differentiation with scale.

The dinner table provided a perfect setting to discuss what’s on the menu in private markets and private wealth. We covered:

Why there’s no free lunch, just dinner.

Are private markets eating the world?

Creating curated menus for advisors.

The recipes for success in private markets distribution.

Thanks, Dave and Chelsea, for such a thoughtful and fascinating conversation.

Thanks for reading Alt Goes Mainstream! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work - writing and podcasting about the convergence of private markets and private wealth since December 2020.

A word from AGM podcast sponsor, Ultimus Fund Solutions

This episode of Alt Goes Mainstream is brought to you by Ultimus, the full-service fund administrator and transfer agent powering asset managers in private and public markets. As alts go mainstream, you need real expertise to handle complex fund structures, connect with key distribution partners, and handle sophisticated compliance, reporting, and transparency demands.

That’s Ultimus: high-tech, high-touch solutions for over 450 clients and 2,500 funds with $775B in assets under administration. Backed by an expert team of over 1,200 employees, they place client service at the core of their business, helping you navigate complexity during your fund structuring or launch and then supporting you through every stage of growth. Whether you’re already in the market or thinking about entering private wealth, you can trust their team’s deep expertise in retail alternatives to help you reach your goals.

Learn more: ultimusfundsolutions.com or email [email protected].

We thank Ultimus for their support of alts going mainstream.

Show Notes

00:00 Sponsor Intro by Ultimus

00:57 Meet The Guests, Dave Donahoo and Chelsea Ganey

01:07 Private Markets Everywhere

01:30 Why FormT he Franklin Templeton RIA Advisory Council

01:51 Franklin Client-First DNA

02:11 The New Franklin Templeton

03:05 Beyond Product Feedback

03:48 Chelsea On The Value of The Advisory Council

04:31 Networking Beats Inbox Noise

05:23 Serving Diverse RIAs

06:28 Inside One RIA Many Needs

07:47 What GPs Should Do Better

08:47 Education That Actually Sticks

09:55 From White Papers To Tools

10:50 Education Then Vs Now

11:42 Choice Changes The Pitch

12:21 Customization Vs Scale

13:26 Centralized CIO Menus

15:51 Sober Selling Long Term

17:13 Franklins Specialist Platform

18:19 Why Specialists Win

19:17 Infrastructure Partnership Play

20:13 More With Less Managers

22:10 Advisor Level Efficiency

22:46 Whats Next Product Innovation

23:23 Integrity First Adoption

24:36 Allocator Lens Shift

25:00 Innovation Options Overview

25:15 Model Portfolios Debate

26:03 Customization Versus Scale

26:29 What Private Markets Lack

26:44 Meeting In The Middle

27:07 Magic Wand Question

27:31 Plumbing And Reporting

27:45 Ease Without Dilution

28:00 Lexington Structure Constraints

28:44 Long Term Over Short Term

28:56 Need More CIO Mindset

29:17 Strategic Allocation Framework

29:34 Avoiding Whipsaw Flows

30:08 Chelsea On Strategic Thinking

30:24 Integrating Alts In Portfolios

30:57 Advisor Conversation Shift

31:32 Educating On Liquidity

31:43 Reframing Private Risk

32:07 Control And Recovery Benefits

33:07 Dave On Liquidity Risk

33:52 Stop Saying Semi Liquid

34:19 Structural Liquidity And Trust

35:23 Dinner Props And Buckets

35:57 Starter Main Dessert Picks

36:16 Real Estate Equity Starter

36:51 Secondaries Main Course

37:11 Real Estate Credit Dessert

38:04 Diversify Early Or Regret

39:37 Strategic Neutral Analogy

40:00 Client Analogies That Work

40:34 Zillow House Price Lesson

41:40 Baseball Patience Mindset

42:52 Fat Pitch Question

43:01 Chelsea On Secondaries Credit

43:59 Dave Singles Versus Homers

44:42 Lead Off Batter Story

45:02 No Free Lunch Just Dinner

45:40 Closing Thanks And Outro

Join over 16,400 Substack subscribers & followers and 44,000 LinkedIn and podcast followers who are thought leaders and executives from top private markets firms and wealth management like Blackstone, Apollo, Ares, KKR, EQT, Carlyle, Blue Owl, CVC, TPG, Brookfield, Vista, Goldman Sachs, J.P. Morgan, BlackRock, Fidelity, iCapital, Franklin Templeton, Nuveen, Hg, Permira, Stonepeak, Hamilton Lane, StepStone, Partners Group, General Atlantic, Hightower, Focus Financial, Corient, Cerity Partners, and more.

Welcome back to the Alt Goes Mainstream podcast.

We went to a mecca of football to film the latest episode. This conversation takes us to Turin, Italy, where we were in the Juventus Creator Lab with Italian football (I mean soccer for the Americans) legend and one of the best defenders of all time Giorgio Chiellini.

Giorgio’s career and playing style were defined by Juventus’ very motto, fino alla fine (“until the end”). It’s also a mentality that he brings to every aspect of life on and off the pitch.

After an illustrious playing career at one of the world’s biggest clubs, Juventus, and a career that also included two World Cup appearances for Italy and winning the Euro 2020 as the Captain of Italy, Giorgio came back home to Turin rejoin the club where he starred for 17 years: Juventus. Giorgio has gone from the pitch to the boardroom, helping to lead Juventus as the Director of Football Strategy. He has brought the player’s perspective to the business side of football, balancing the nuances of sports and business.

Despite the demands that Giorgio faced on the field as a player to maintain a standard of play at the highest levels of the game, he found time during his career to pursue his passion for business. He received his MBA while playing for Juventus and also was involved in the player development side in his final years as a player at LAFC. More recently, he became an investor in LAFC and in Mercury13, a multi-club investor in women’s football teams, including FC Como. He’s also an active investor in the European startup community.

Giorgio and I had a wide-ranging and fascinating conversation that covered several dimensions of the business of sport. We discussed:

How can sports clubs chase the trifecta, in Giorgio’s view: “sustainable, profitable, and a winner?”

How teams, owners, and investors can balance both the sport and business aspects of the game.

What it means for sports now that players can have bigger social followings than their clubs or leagues.

How Juventus has built and amplified its brand through initiatives like the Creator Lab.

How clubs like Juventus can help players build their off-field brand while maintaining a high-quality on-field product.

How Giorgio’s work off the field while playing informed how he wanted to spend his time post-career in business.

What Giorgio’s day-to-day is like as Director of Football Strategy for Juventus.

Why Giorgio invested in LAFC and what he thinks about the future of the MLS.

What American owners and investors can learn from European soccer clubs and owners, and what European clubs and owners can learn from American owners and investors.

Thanks, Giorgio, for sharing your wisdom, expertise, and enthusiasm at the intersection of sports and business and fino alla fine.

Note: this episode was filmed in October 2025 with a plan to publish the conversation around the World Cup.

Thanks for reading Alt Goes Mainstream! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work - writing and podcasting about the convergence of private markets and private wealth since December 2020.

A word from AGM podcast sponsor, Ultimus Fund Solutions

This episode of Alt Goes Mainstream is brought to you by Ultimus, the full-service fund administrator and transfer agent powering asset managers in private and public markets. As alts go mainstream, you need real expertise to handle complex fund structures, connect with key distribution partners, and handle sophisticated compliance, reporting, and transparency demands.

That’s Ultimus: high-tech, high-touch solutions for over 450 clients and 2,500 funds with $775B in assets under administration. Backed by an expert team of over 1,200 employees, they place client service at the core of their business, helping you navigate complexity during your fund structuring or launch and then supporting you through every stage of growth. Whether you’re already in the market or thinking about entering private wealth, you can trust their team’s deep expertise in retail alternatives to help you reach your goals.

Learn more: ultimusfundsolutions.com or email [email protected].

We thank Ultimus for their support of alts going mainstream.

Show Notes

00:00 Split Second Decision

01:06 A Message from Our Sponsor, Ultimus

02:10 Meet Giorgio Chiellini

04:31 What Is the Juventus Creator Lab

05:12 Clubs Becoming Global Brands

05:33 Football Business Then vs Now

05:47 Global Reach and Media Rights

06:22 Brand Value and Revenue Streams

07:52 On-Pitch vs Off-Pitch Business

08:23 Winning vs Storytelling

08:59 Global Fans and Virtuous Cycle

09:49 Too Many Games Problem

10:16 Stakeholders and Calendar Control

11:31 Communication Fixes Tension

12:02 Player to Management Journey

13:49 Why He Studied While Playing

18:19 Mental Health and Social Media

31:14 US Soccer Outlook

31:40 Grassroots Takes Time

32:04 MLS and USL Growth

32:23 MLS Season Motivation

32:39 Supporters Shield Math

33:15 Travel and Rotation

33:42 Europe vs MLS Stakes

34:04 Highlights Culture Shift

35:16 How Fans Watch Now

36:15 Sports Must Adapt

36:54 Owners Business Response

37:11 Leagues Changing Formats

37:47 TV Rights Going Global

38:37 Institutional Money Trend

39:14 Why Investors Love Sports

39:54 Balancing Profit and Growth

40:44 Sport Is Emotional

40:51 Fiduciary Duty vs Winning

42:01 Permanent Capital Juventus

44:58 Mission Culture Values

46:22 Club and City Identity

47:49 Leadership Lessons Learned

Editing and post-production work for this episode was provided by The Podcast Consultant.

Join over 16,400 Substack subscribers & followers who are thought leaders and executives from top private markets firms and wealth management like Blackstone, Apollo, Ares, KKR, EQT, Carlyle, Blue Owl, CVC, TPG, Brookfield, Vista, Goldman Sachs, J.P. Morgan, BlackRock, Fidelity, iCapital, Franklin Templeton, Nuveen, Hg, Permira, Stonepeak, Hamilton Lane, StepStone, Partners Group, General Atlantic, Hightower, Focus Financial, Corient, Cerity Partners, and more.

Welcome back to the Alt Goes Mainstream podcast.

Today’s conversation provides a fascinating window into the world of how one of the industry’s largest wealth managers approaches private markets.

We sat down with the man who holds the keys to the kingdom.

Mark Sutterlin is the Head of Alternative Investments within the Investment Solutions Group at Bank of America. He leads the firm’s strategy and platform development across hedge funds, private credit, private equity, physical precious metals, and real estate, delivering a broad spectrum of institutional-grade investment solutions to advisors and their clients.

Mark brings the advisor’s perspective to bear as he builds the alternative investments menu for Merrill and Bank of America Private Bank and helps educate advisors and clients on how and where to thoughtfully and appropriately include private markets in portfolios.

Mark and I had a fascinating discussion. We covered:

How GPs can work with private banks.

What one of the largest private wealth allocators looks for in GPs.

How Merrill approaches different product structures to deliver solutions across the wealth client spectrum.

What constitutes a manager’s edge.

I loved this conversation with Mark, who takes such a thoughtful approach and brings a true passion to helping clients and advisors build and protect wealth.

Thanks, Mark, for sharing your expertise, wisdom, and passion on private markets and private wealth.

Thanks for reading Alt Goes Mainstream! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work - writing and podcasting about the convergence of private markets and private wealth since December 2020.

A word from AGM podcast sponsor, Ultimus Fund Solutions

This episode of Alt Goes Mainstream is brought to you by Ultimus, the full-service fund administrator and transfer agent powering asset managers in private and public markets. As alts go mainstream, you need real expertise to handle complex fund structures, connect with key distribution partners, and handle sophisticated compliance, reporting, and transparency demands.

That’s Ultimus: high-tech, high-touch solutions for over 450 clients and 2,500 funds with $775B in assets under administration. Backed by an expert team of over 1,200 employees, they place client service at the core of their business, helping you navigate complexity during your fund structuring or launch and then supporting you through every stage of growth. Whether you’re already in the market or thinking about entering private wealth, you can trust their team’s deep expertise in retail alternatives to help you reach your goals.

Learn more: ultimusfundsolutions.com or email [email protected].

We thank Ultimus for their support of alts going mainstream.

Show Notes

00:00 Investor Edge Beyond Returns

00:32 Sponsor Message from Ultimus

01:29 Meet Mark Sutterlin

03:27 From Advisor to Alts Lead

03:34 Lessons From 2008

04:12 Trust And Advisor Duty

04:27 Serving HNW And UHNW

04:51 Evergreen To Drawdown Spectrum

05:19 Building The Alts Shelf

05:52 Platform Design Principles

06:35 Diligence As Core Identity

07:04 Nuance In Private Credit

07:40 Long Term Themes Overlay

08:17 Core Satellite Portfolio Mix

09:57 Evergreens Take The Lead

10:23 Evergreen Growing Pains

10:50 Education And Expectations

11:49 Who Can Run Evergreens

12:40 Allocation Policy And Scale

13:07 Post-Sale Servicing Matters

13:40 Manager Service Playbook

14:57 Vetting Manager Fit

17:11 DNA Of A Firm

18:24 Speaking Advisor Language

19:27 Customization Versus Scale

20:23 UHNW Specialist Support

21:28 Tools For Custom Proposals

22:40 Feedback Loop Builds Menu

23:15 Differentiation In UHNW

23:52 What Merrill Expects From GPs

24:15 Capacity Co-Invest And Access

25:04 Next Frontier Experiential Change

26:23 Planning Tools For Alts

26:41 DLT And Private Markets

27:02 Fixing Fragmented Workflows

27:21 Streamlining To Drive Adoption

27:42 Biggest Blocker Education Gap

28:13 Advisor Intimidation And Misperceptions

28:37 Shared Responsibility To Educate

28:58 Misconception Complexity Fear

29:39 Controls And Simple Narrative

30:09 Alts Invitationals Bootcamp

31:09 Why The Lightbulb Moment Happens

31:33 Advisors Stretched Thin

32:11 What Why How Spectrum

34:12 Implementation Still The Gap

34:32 Scaling The Alts Platform

35:37 Open Architecture Product Depth

35:54 Lifecycle Infrastructure And Controls

36:34 Where To Invest Next

37:28 Growth Mix Existing Vs New

38:40 Advisors Yet To Adopt

39:41 Client Sentiment And Experience

41:26 Patience And Long Term Comfort

42:04 Next Gen Investors And Time Horizon

44:11 Manager Edge And Storytelling

46:07 Menu Construction And Gatekeepers

48:24 Platform Differentiation And Exclusivity

50:43 Liquidity Headlines And Real Risks

52:24 Excited About AI And Themes

54:58 Closing Reflections And Wrap Up

Editing and post-production work for this episode was provided by The Podcast Consultant.

Join over 16,400 Substack subscribers & followers who are thought leaders and executives from top private markets firms and wealth management like Blackstone, Apollo, Ares, KKR, EQT, Carlyle, Blue Owl, CVC, TPG, Brookfield, Vista, Goldman Sachs, J.P. Morgan, BlackRock, Fidelity, iCapital, Franklin Templeton, Nuveen, Hg, Permira, Stonepeak, Hamilton Lane, StepStone, Partners Group, General Atlantic, Hightower, Focus Financial, Corient, Cerity Partners, and more.

Welcome back to the Alt Goes Mainstream podcast.

Today’s episode brings commercial real estate credit investing to life with someone who has real estate in his blood.

Michael Comparato’s grandfather started building single-family homes in upstate New York in 1946. He built his first shopping center in 1958. Michael was born into a family where he was on construction sites from a young age. At 13, he was doing landscaping. At 15, he was hanging drywall.

Today, Michael is a Senior Managing Director, Head of Real Estate and Portfolio Manager with Benefit Street Partners, as well as Chief Executive Officer of Franklin BSP Realty Trust, Inc (NYSE: FBRT). He also serves on the US Executive Committee.

Prior to joining BSP in 2015, Michael was Head of U.S. Equity Investments at Ladder Capital. Before that, he was President at Bank Atlantic Commercial Mortgage Capital.

Benefit Street Partners is part of Franklin Templeton’s family of specialists in private markets. BSP is a specialized private credit firm with over $92B in AUM. The firm manages a wide range of private credit strategies, including direct lending, special situations, commercial real estate debt, infrastructure debt, asset-backed finance, structured credit, and liquid credit. It also manages a non-traded Business Development Company and publicly-listed mortgage REIT.

Since BSP was acquired by Franklin Templeton in 2019, it has partnered with the $1.7T investment manager to expand how it structures various products and funds, enabling more access to the private credit asset class for wealth investors.

From his perch as the Head of BSP’s Real Estate business, Michael has the perspective of how one of the industry’s scaled real estate investment firms is approaching commercial real estate credit and where the firm sees opportunity.

Michael and I had a fascinating conversation about the evolution of CRE credit and why now might be an interesting time in the CRE credit space. We covered:

Why CRE, why now.

What bank retrenchment means for CRE credit investors today.

The relative resilience of multi-family.

The maturity wall myth.

Is the “extend and pretend” activity a reality?

How AI impacts commercial real estate.

Thanks Michael for sharing your passion, wisdom, and expertise on commercial real estate credit.

Thanks for reading Alt Goes Mainstream! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work - writing and podcasting about the convergence of private markets and private wealth since December 2020.

A word from AGM podcast sponsor, Ultimus Fund Solutions

This episode of Alt Goes Mainstream is brought to you by Ultimus, the full-service fund administrator and transfer agent powering asset managers in private and public markets. As alts go mainstream, you need real expertise to handle complex fund structures, connect with key distribution partners, and handle sophisticated compliance, reporting, and transparency demands.

That’s Ultimus: high-tech, high-touch solutions for over 450 clients and 2,500 funds with $775B in assets under administration. Backed by an expert team of over 1,200 employees, they place client service at the core of their business, helping you navigate complexity during your fund structuring or launch and then supporting you through every stage of growth. Whether you’re already in the market or thinking about entering private wealth, you can trust their team’s deep expertise in retail alternatives to help you reach your goals.

Learn more: ultimusfundsolutions.com or email [email protected].

We thank Ultimus for their support of alts going mainstream.

Show Notes

00:00 Meet Michael Comparato

00:40 Message from Ultimus, our Sponsor

02:05 Real Estate in His Blood

03:18 Hands On Early Lessons

03:41 Finance Meets Real Estate

04:13 Hurricane Shopping Center Stories

05:15 The Human Side of Property

06:13 Story Over Spreadsheet

07:50 Why Origination Beats Buying

09:48 Family Business Ethos

11:06 Relationships Still Matter

12:18 Trust and Transparency

12:49 Navigating Recent Dislocation

14:01 Lending Through COVID

14:47 Structuring for Uncertainty

15:32 Boom Times Underwriting Shifts

18:39 Crowded at the Top

28:42 Banks Pull Back, Private Credit Steps In

31:22 Banks Shed CRE Risk

32:06 Who Gets Paid for Risk

32:22 Euphoric Returns Fade

33:09 Competition Compresses Yields

33:40 Maturity Wall Myth

33:59 Extend and Pretend Reality

34:23 Taking the Asset Back

34:42 Post Hike Loanbook Shift

34:54 Hardline Loan Modifications

35:54 Real Estate Credit Allocation

36:46 Why Institutions Buy In

38:27 Equity to Credit Rotation

39:10 Wealth Channel On-Ramp

40:05 Why Real Assets Win

41:04 Why Now for CRE Credit

43:18 Credit vs Equity Horizon

44:15 Opportunity Set Today

45:27 WFH and AI Megatrends

48:30 Shelter Beats Disruption

50:08 Communities and Reinvention

52:23 Real Estate Constant Evolution

55:30 CRE Credit vs Direct Lending

58:03 Closing Thanks

Editing and post-production work for this episode was provided by The Podcast Consultant.

Join over 16,200 Substack subscribers & followers who are thought leaders and executives from top private markets firms and wealth management like Blackstone, Apollo, Ares, KKR, EQT, Carlyle, Blue Owl, CVC, TPG, Brookfield, Vista, Goldman Sachs, J.P. Morgan, BlackRock, Fidelity, iCapital, Franklin Templeton, Nuveen, Hg, Permira, Stonepeak, Hamilton Lane, StepStone, Partners Group, General Atlantic, Hightower, Focus Financial, Corient, Cerity Partners, and more.

Welcome back to the Alt Goes Mainstream podcast.

Today’s episode is with a founder who is building mission-critical valuation and portfolio monitoring software for alternative asset managers.

We are joined by Yann Magnan, the Co-Founder and CEO of 73 Strings, to discuss how valuation work and portfolio monitoring is moving from manual to automated and why that’s so important for the industry. 73 Strings has leveraged AI and automation to more seamlessly and cost-effectively extract data, monitor portfolios, and streamline middle-office processes for valuations. 73 Strings works with a number of the industry’s top alternative asset managers and has received investment from Blackstone, Growth Equity at Goldman Sachs Alternatives, Hamilton Lane, Golub, Fidelity International Strategic Ventures, and Broadhaven Ventures, amongst others.

Yann has brought his experience as a senior member of the Duff & Phelps team, where he was EMEA Market Leader and member of the Global Operating Committee and as a Partner at EY’s Transaction Advisory Services to help bring valuation and portfolio monitoring solutions into the mainstream.

Yann and I had a fascinating conversation about how technology innovation and AI are impacting private markets and perspectives on valuation work today. We discussed:

The challenges with manual valuation services businesses.

How to create uniformity and standardization with private markets fund performance data.

How AI is changing private markets post-investment reporting processes.

Does automation in private markets help big funds or small funds more?

The evolution of post-investment private markets market structure.

The biggest technology innovation still missing from private markets.

Why the growth of the wealth channel and evergreen funds increases the need for more streamlined reporting and valuation solutions.

Thanks for reading Alt Goes Mainstream! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work - writing and podcasting about the convergence of private markets and private wealth since December 2020.

A word from AGM podcast sponsor, Ultimus Fund Solutions

This episode of Alt Goes Mainstream is brought to you by Ultimus, the full-service fund administrator and transfer agent powering asset managers in private and public markets. As alts go mainstream, you need real expertise to handle complex fund structures, connect with key distribution partners, and handle sophisticated compliance, reporting, and transparency demands.

That’s Ultimus: high-tech, high-touch solutions for over 450 clients and 2,500 funds with $775B in assets under administration. Backed by an expert team of over 1,200 employees, they place client service at the core of their business, helping you navigate complexity during your fund structuring or launch and then supporting you through every stage of growth. Whether you’re already in the market or thinking about entering private wealth, you can trust their team’s deep expertise in retail alternatives to help you reach your goals.

Learn more: ultimusfundsolutions.com or email [email protected].

We thank Ultimus for their support of alts going mainstream.

Show Notes

00:00 AI Since Day One

01:06 A Message from our Sponsor, Ultimus

02:02 Introduction to Yann Magnan

04:15 Valuations: From Manual To Automated

06:47 Evergreen Funds Shift

08:25 Valuations Now Drive Trades

13:12 Transparency And Liquidity

16:20 Evergreen Ops Requirements

18:35 Tech Leverage In Valuation

21:02 Data As The Single Source

22:45 Why Valuations Differ

23:31 Consistency In Valuations

24:10 Humans Versus AI

26:00 No Single Best Method

26:56 Educating Wealth Investors

28:15 GP Valuation Uniformity

29:27 Global Tech Adoption

30:33 Why Tech Helps Fundraising

31:30 Data Extraction And Insights

34:35 Standardizing Portfolio Data

36:11 Scale Versus Expertise

38:22 AI Agents In Valuation

40:37 Governance And Explainability

44:00 Digital GP LP Data Sharing

45:29 Trust And Closing Thoughts

Editing and post-production work for this episode was provided by The Podcast Consultant.

Join over 16,000 Substack subscribers & followers who are thought leaders and executives from top private markets firms and wealth management like Blackstone, Apollo, Ares, KKR, EQT, Carlyle, Blue Owl, CVC, TPG, Brookfield, Vista, Goldman Sachs, J.P. Morgan, BlackRock, Fidelity, iCapital, Franklin Templeton, Nuveen, Hg, Permira, Stonepeak, Hamilton Lane, StepStone, Partners Group, General Atlantic, Hightower, Focus Financial, Corient, Cerity Partners, and more.

Welcome back to the Alt Goes Mainstream podcast.

We were live from iCapital Connect’s conference in Phoenix, where we sat down with some of the industry’s leaders across asset management and wealth management.

Hartley Rogers is a pioneer in private markets. He is the Executive Co-Chairman of Hamilton Lane, where he plays a significant role in investing and client relationship activities, as well as in strategic and organizational development. He is a Member of the Investment Committees and is the Chairman of the Board of Directors.

This was a thoroughly fascinating conversation. Hartley’s wealth of knowledge made for a nuanced discussion that married the evolution of the business of asset management with why and how product structure innovation has unfolded as it has in private markets. We also dove into an area that is Hartley’s passion: venture capital and the innovation economy.

We covered:

Hamilton Lane’s evolution scaling from 50 people in a single office to 800 people across 22 offices.

The transformation from investment consulting into a solutions provider and asset manager for investors.

The importance of data, tools, access, and portfolio construction to manage the increasing complexity of private markets.

How will the wealth channel invest in private markets?

The misconceptions of evergreens being “ATMs.”

What is the “special sauce” in constructing an evergreen portfolio?

How secondaries can help feed the evergreen fund engine.

What defines a manager’s edge.

What private markets strategies excite Hartley.

Thanks for reading Alt Goes Mainstream! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work - writing and podcasting about the convergence of private markets and private wealth since December 2020.

A word from AGM podcast sponsor, Ultimus Fund Solutions

This episode of Alt Goes Mainstream is brought to you by Ultimus, the full-service fund administrator and transfer agent powering asset managers in private and public markets. As alts go mainstream, you need real expertise to handle complex fund structures, connect with key distribution partners, and handle sophisticated compliance, reporting, and transparency demands.

That’s Ultimus: high-tech, high-touch solutions for over 450 clients and 2,500 funds with $775B in assets under administration. Backed by an expert team of over 1,200 employees, they place client service at the core of their business, helping you navigate complexity during your fund structuring or launch and then supporting you through every stage of growth. Whether you’re already in the market or thinking about entering private wealth, you can trust their team’s deep expertise in retail alternatives to help you reach your goals.

Learn more: ultimusfundsolutions.com or email [email protected].

We thank Ultimus for their support of alts going mainstream.

Show Notes

00:00 Hamilton Lane Then and Now

01:33 Introduction to our Sponsor, Ultimus

03:57 Hartley’s Career Origins

04:44 Hamilton Lane’s Consulting Roots

05:21 Outsourcing Partner Today

05:53 Scaling Changed the Job

07:13 Private Markets Explosion

08:25 Mega Managers and Complements

09:32 Why Middle Market Matters

11:32 GP Skillset Evolves

12:18 Underwriting in the Data Era

13:01 Data Advantage in Secondaries

13:51 Secondaries Enable Evergreens

14:25 Evergreen Works Across Strategies

15:01 Why Wealth Needs Evergreens

16:04 Deal Flow and Diversification

17:10 How Allocators Use Evergreens

18:08 Evergreen vs Drawdown Balance

19:12 Evergreens Like ETFs

20:22 Structures Still Early Days

21:09 Who Gets What Exposure

22:28 What Defines Manager Edge

23:48 Commitment and Alignment Test

34:51 Misconceptions and Closing Picks

Editing and post-production work for this episode was provided by The Podcast Consultant.

Join over 15,900 Substack subscribers & followers who are thought leaders and executives from top private markets firms and wealth management like Blackstone, Apollo, Ares, KKR, EQT, Carlyle, Blue Owl, CVC, TPG, Brookfield, Vista, Goldman Sachs, J.P. Morgan, BlackRock, Fidelity, iCapital, Franklin Templeton, Nuveen, Hg, Permira, Stonepeak, Hamilton Lane, StepStone, Partners Group, General Atlantic, Hightower, Focus Financial, Corient, Cerity Partners, and more.

Welcome back to the Alt Goes Mainstream podcast.

Today’s episode dives into the nuances of the numbers to discuss valuations, underwriting, and the state of private markets.

We sat down with Brian Garfield, Managing Director and Global Head of the Portfolio Valuations practice within Lincoln International’s Valuations and Opinions Group.

Brian provides valuation and transaction opinion services to public and private alternative asset managers. He leads a team of over 225 professionals, providing strategic oversight for the Global Portfolio Valuation practice which includes both our Portfolio Valuation and Asset Backed Finance teams situated across North America, EMEA and APAC. Brian’s team also produces the Lincoln Private Market Index, Lincoln Senior Debt Index, and Lincoln Default Index.

Brian and his team specialize in estimating the fair value for an array of financial instruments, including direct investments in senior, unitranche and subordinated loans, as well as preferred equity, common equity, option and warrants. His expertise also includes valuing secondary fund interests, co-investments, and GP stakes.

Prior to joining Lincoln, Brian spent more than six years at Duff & Phelps, LLC, where he advised a wide range of alternative asset managers.

Brian and I had a fascinating conversation about the current state of valuations and underwriting in private markets. We discussed:

How is AI impacting SaaS company valuations?

Taking stock of the current fundamentals of private companies.

Is the “iceberg of deals” melting?

How indices and benchmarks are bringing a “deeper level of transparency than price” to a market.

How is continuation vehicle activity impacting private markets?

How has the growth of evergreen funds impacted the world of valuations?

Thanks Brian for sharing your expertise, insights, and passion about private markets and valuations.

Thanks for reading Alt Goes Mainstream! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work - writing and podcasting about the convergence of private markets and private wealth since December 2020.

A word from AGM podcast sponsor, Ultimus Fund Solutions

This episode of Alt Goes Mainstream is brought to you by Ultimus, the full-service fund administrator and transfer agent powering asset managers in private and public markets. As alts go mainstream, you need real expertise to handle complex fund structures, connect with key distribution partners, and handle sophisticated compliance, reporting, and transparency demands.

That’s Ultimus: high-tech, high-touch solutions for over 450 clients and 2,500 funds with $775B in assets under administration. Backed by an expert team of over 1,200 employees, they place client service at the core of their business, helping you navigate complexity during your fund structuring or launch and then supporting you through every stage of growth. Whether you’re already in the market or thinking about entering private wealth, you can trust their team’s deep expertise in retail alternatives to help you reach your goals.

Learn more: ultimusfundsolutions.com or email [email protected].

We thank Ultimus for their support of alts going mainstream.

Show Notes

00:00 AI Hype Reality Check

01:01 A Message From Our Sponsor, Ultimus

01:57 Introducing Brian Garfield

04:16 Art Versus Science in Valuations

05:00 Tech And Automation

06:15 Valuation For New Investors

07:45 Anchoring To Purchase Price

09:03 Entry Versus Exit Nuance

10:23 Private Versus Public Multiples

11:03 Lincoln Private Market Index

12:17 AI And Software Bifurcation

17:13 Key Market Health Signals

18:34 2021 Vintage Leverage Logjam

20:42 Exit Delays And Continuation Vehicles

22:05 Winners, Losers, And CVs

23:28 Iceberg of Exits

24:41 Private Credit Yields Shift

27:10 Underwriting Gets Scrubbed

30:18 AI and Specialist Edge

32:15 Energy Shock Valuation Risk

36:48 Public Private Convergence

41:47 Evergreen Valuation Cadence

43:16 Tech Standards and AI Queries

45:41 Backtesting and Transparency

48:23 Closing Thoughts

Editing and post-production work for this episode was provided by The Podcast Consultant.

Join over 15,800 Substack subscribers & followers who are thought leaders and executives from top private markets firms and wealth management like Blackstone, Apollo, Ares, KKR, EQT, Carlyle, Blue Owl, CVC, TPG, Brookfield, Vista, Goldman Sachs, J.P. Morgan, BlackRock, Fidelity, iCapital, Franklin Templeton, Nuveen, Hg, Permira, Stonepeak, Hightower, Focus Financial, Cerity Partners, and more.

Welcome back to the Alt Goes Mainstream podcast.

Today’s episode unpacks the nuances of the middle market investing landscape with an industry expert who spearheads one of the leading middle market investment platforms.

We sat down in Bridgepoint’s London office with Partner and Chief Investment Officer Xavier Robert.

Xavier is a Partner of Bridgepoint and Chief Investment Officer, where he’s been a member of the firm for almost 28 years. He is a member of the Firm’s Group Management Committee and Investment Advisory Committee. He currently sits on the boards of MiQ, Kyriba, and Qualitest. He was previously a Board Member and Chair of the Remuneration Committee at eFront, which the firm sold to BlackRock. Prior to joining Bridgepoint, he worked at Total and Ernst & Young.

Xavier and I had a fascinating and nuanced discussion about why the middle market is a compelling segment in the market and how Bridgepoint has expanded across asset classes. We discussed:

How Bridgepoint’s origins as part of NatWest Banking Group helped to shape the firm’s early days as an independent investment platform.

The “entrepreneurial story” of Bridgepoint.

The story of Bridgepoint’s IPO and how everyone from the CEO to the receptionist all had shares in the company pre-IPO.

The importance of being local in markets across Europe but operating as a single team.

The expansion of Bridgepoint’s platform across credit, infrastructure, and secondaries.

Why Europe, why now.

Why the middle market is an attractive segment for investment.

Sizing up the middle market investment opportunity and how the size and scale of middle market companies provides investors with more control of exit outcomes.

What drives returns in the middle market.

Why and how Bridgepoint has approached working with the wealth channel.

Thanks Xavier for coming on the show to share your wisdom, expertise, and passion for private markets, investing, and the European mid-market.

Show Notes

00:00 Welcome and Setting

00:36 Bridgepoint Origins

02:14 Ownership Culture

03:33 Full Circle Platform

04:25 Partnering Values

06:06 Why Middle Market

08:29 Exits and Liquidity

10:12 Value Creation Playbook

12:06 Bridgepoint Edge

14:05 Europe Local Advantage

16:15 Europe vs US Returns

18:29 Geopolitics and Expansion

19:39 Middle East Growth

20:45 Wealth Channel Shift

21:25 Wealth Channel Thesis

22:23 Responsible Access Design

23:11 Evergreen Platform Needs

25:40 Why Combine Infra

28:35 Evergreen Deal Allocation

30:40 Fund Growth Performance

32:41 Kyriba Deal Lessons

36:34 Middle Market Opportunity

37:45 Building Asset Manager

40:36 Closing Vision Goal

*Note: This episode was recorded in January 2026.

Editing and post-production work for this episode was provided by The Podcast Consultant.

Join over 15,700 Substack subscribers & followers who are thought leaders and executives from top private markets firms and wealth management like Blackstone, Apollo, Ares, KKR, EQT, Carlyle, Blue Owl, CVC, TPG, Brookfield, Vista, Goldman Sachs, J.P. Morgan, BlackRock, Fidelity, iCapital, Franklin Templeton, Nuveen, Hg, Permira, Stonepeak, Hightower, Focus Financial, Cerity Partners, and more.

Welcome back to the Alt Goes Mainstream podcast.

Today’s episode dives into the nuances of private markets with one of the industry’s leaders.

We sat down with HarbourVest CEO John Toomey, where he leads a firm that has over $160B in AUM and has over 43 years of experience across primary funds, secondary transactions, direct co-investments, and building customized programs for LPs.

John has been at HarbourVest for almost 30 years, joining the firm in 1997 as an Analyst in the Direct team. He spent 10 years as one of the leaders of the Secondary business before serving on Global Investment Committees for nearly a decade. He also served as the original CFO for the HarbourVest Global Private Equity vehicle, which went public in 2007 on Euronext Amsterdam.

John is also a member of the Firm’s Conflicts Committee, Sustainable Investing Council, and DEI Council. He received a BA (cum laude) in Chemistry and Physics from Harvard University and an MBA from Harvard Business School.

John and I had a fascinating and thought-provoking conversation about the evolution of private markets as an industry. We covered:

The biggest differences between private markets in the 1990s and private markets today.

How private markets has evolved over the past 30 years.

What LPs are looking for today in their manager relationships.

Do LPs want more choice or less?

Why LPs, both institutions and wealth investors, might outsource private markets capabilities.

How the institutionalization of private wealth platforms is shaping how alternative asset managers partner with the wealth channel.

Where scale matters for alternative asset managers.

Where allocators should be “narrow and limited” with their GP relationships and where allocators should be diversified.

What is required for managers that launch and manage evergreen vehicles.

The why and the how behind launching a private wealth solutions business.

Thanks John for coming on the show to share your wisdom, expertise, and passion for private markets.

Thanks for reading Alt Goes Mainstream! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work - writing and podcasting about the convergence of private markets and private wealth since December 2020.

A word from AGM podcast sponsor, Ultimus Fund Solutions

This episode of Alt Goes Mainstream is brought to you by Ultimus, the full-service fund administrator and transfer agent powering asset managers in private and public markets. As alts go mainstream, you need real expertise to handle complex fund structures, connect with key distribution partners, and handle sophisticated compliance, reporting, and transparency demands.

That’s Ultimus: high-tech, high-touch solutions for over 450 clients and 2,500 funds with $775B in assets under administration. Backed by an expert team of over 1,200 employees, they place client service at the core of their business, helping you navigate complexity during your fund structuring or launch and then supporting you through every stage of growth. Whether you’re already in the market or thinking about entering private wealth, you can trust their team’s deep expertise in retail alternatives to help you reach your goals.

Learn more: ultimusfundsolutions.com or email [email protected].

We thank Ultimus for their support of alts going mainstream.

Show Notes

01:17 Message from our Sponsor, Ultimus

02:12 Meet John Toomey

04:36 HarbourVest’s Early Days

05:34 LP Needs Then Versus Now

07:37 Why Outsource Private Markets

09:27 Program Approach Explained

11:00 Earning LP Trust

12:53 Building Blocks And Scale

14:20 GP Needs And Access Points

17:35 Co-Invest Partnership Model

18:54 Middle Market Diversification

21:26 Punching Above Weight

24:22 Big Or Niche Debate

27:25 Investing In Data And AI

28:27 Evergreens And Wealth Channel

30:34 Scale Needed For Evergreens

31:43 Multi Manager Future

32:39 Wealth Platform Consolidation

33:08 Who Can Build Evergreens

34:45 Evergreen Deal Flow Mix

36:58 How Wealth Wants Access

38:20 Centralized CIO Trend

39:21 Manager Selection Matters

40:56 Diversification Versus Alpha

42:41 Funding From Public Markets

45:16 Starting Private Equity Today

46:54 Institutional Program Evolution

51:13 Institutions Using Evergreens

53:16 Liquidity And LP Transparency

55:40 What Creates Manager Edge

58:54 Non-Obvious Data Insights

01:01:05 Closing Thoughts

Editing and post-production work for this episode was provided by The Podcast Consultant.

Join over 15,600 Substack subscribers & followers who are thought leaders and executives from top private markets firms and wealth management like Blackstone, Apollo, Ares, KKR, EQT, Carlyle, Blue Owl, CVC, TPG, Brookfield, Vista, Goldman Sachs, J.P. Morgan, BlackRock, Fidelity, iCapital, Franklin Templeton, Nuveen, Hg, Permira, Stonepeak, Hightower, Focus Financial, Cerity Partners, and more.