Following the recent discovery of the log4j bug, a wide-spread security vulnerability, the tech community once again grapples with the issue of reliance on and maintenance of core technology that is largely maintained by unpaid volunteers. In this episode Steven chats with Andrea Aime and Ian Turton, both long-time open source developers working on widely-used geospatial technologies. The three discuss the challenges of motivation, maintenance, setting expectations, and sutainable community. A timely discussion for anyone contributing to or relying upon open source technologies.