Show Notes
Psychodrama in Criminal Defense: How Storytelling Creates Better Trial Lawyers
Can a lawyer become more persuasive by becoming more authentic?
In this episode of Andrew & Andrew on Texas Criminal Defense, Andrew Herreth and Andrew Decker sit down with Fort Worth criminal defense attorneys Phillip Hall and Veronica Veyhl to discuss one of the most fascinating approaches to trial advocacy: psychodrama.
Both attorneys trained through the Trial Lawyers College and have incorporated psychodramatic techniques into their felony trial practice. Rather than focusing exclusively on legal arguments, they explain how discovering a client's authentic life story helps build credibility with juries, strengthens attorney-client relationships, and often produces better outcomes in court.
The conversation explores the philosophy behind psychodrama, what actually happens during a psychodrama session, why vulnerability matters in trial advocacy, and how storytelling—not theatrics—can transform the way criminal defense lawyers prepare for trial.
Whether you're an experienced trial lawyer, a young attorney preparing for your first jury trial, or someone interested in the psychology of persuasion, this episode provides practical insights into one of the most unique methods of criminal defense advocacy.
In This Episode
What psychodrama actually is—and what it is not
The Trial Lawyers College and Jerry Spence's philosophy of trial advocacy
Why authenticity matters more than courtroom theatrics
How attorneys discover a client's emotional truth
The importance of vulnerability in front of juries
Why jurors trust lawyers who acknowledge difficult facts
Building empathy instead of making excuses
Practical psychodrama techniques including:
Doubling
Role reversal
Reenactments
Mirroring
Why Phillip Hall uses psychodrama in every felony jury trial
The emotional toll of truly understanding your clients
Where lawyers can learn psychodrama techniques
Advice for younger criminal defense attorneys entering trial practice
Resources Mentioned
Trial Lawyers College
Founded by legendary trial lawyer Jerry Spence, Trial Lawyers College teaches trial lawyers how to discover and present authentic client stories through psychodramatic techniques and advanced trial advocacy. Phillip Hall attended the three-week flagship program, while Veronica Veyhl completed the criminal-defense-focused "Defense of the Damned" program.
Texas Criminal Defense Lawyers Association (TCDLA)
Phillip recommends TCDLA's Round Top Criminal Defense Trial College, a shorter weekend program introducing many of the same storytelling and psychodrama concepts for attorneys unable to attend the full Trial Lawyers College.
Local Psychodrama Work Groups
Phillip Hall and Veronica Veyhl regularly host psychodrama work groups for criminal defense attorneys interested in observing or participating in the process. They encourage attorneys to attend, even if only to observe how psychodrama sessions unfold.
Books Mentioned
How to Win Friends and Influence People — Dale Carnegie
Phillip recommends this classic book on communication, negotiation, and relationship building as one of the most influential books for lawyers and professionals.
Before We Were Yours — Lisa Wingate
Veronica recommends this historical fiction novel inspired by the real-life Tennessee Children's Home Society adoption scandal, discussing how the story highlights empathy, family, and resilience.
Cases Cited
Unlike many of our legal episodes, this discussion focuses primarily on trial advocacy rather than appellate case law.
No judicial opinions or statutes were substantively analyzed during this episode.
Key Takeaways
Jurors remember stories far longer than legal arguments.
Authenticity builds credibility.
Credibility builds trust.
Trust often determines verdicts.
Good trial lawyers explain bad facts instead of hiding them.
Every defendant has a story worth understanding.
Psychodrama helps attorneys uncover emotional truths unavailable in police reports.
Human connection can influence punishment even when acquittal is unlikely.
Great criminal defense lawyers advocate for people—not just legal theories.
Developing empathy ultimately makes attorneys more effective advocates.
Frequently Asked Questions
What is psychodrama?
Psychodrama is a structured process, typically led by a licensed mental health professional, that helps individuals revisit important life experiences through role-playing, reenactments, and guided exploration. Criminal defense attorneys use the insights gained from psychodrama to better understand and communicate their clients' stories.
Is psychodrama acting?
No.
The purpose of psychodrama is authenticity—not performance.
Rather than inventing a story, attorneys work to uncover the emotional truth behind real events so they can present their clients honestly and credibly to a jury.
What is "doubling" in psychodrama?
Doubling is a technique where another participant voices emotions or thoughts the protagonist may be feeling but has not yet expressed. The client can accept, reject, or modify those statements, helping uncover deeper emotional truths.
Does every criminal case need psychodrama?
Not necessarily.
However, Phillip Hall explains that he now uses psychodrama preparation in every felony jury trial because it consistently uncovers valuable information that traditional case preparation often misses.
Can psychodrama change the outcome of a trial?
Psychodrama does not change the facts of a case.
It changes how attorneys understand and communicate those facts.
That improved understanding can strengthen voir dire, direct examination, cross-examination, opening statements, closing arguments, and sentencing presentations.
Where can lawyers learn psychodrama?
Attorneys interested in psychodrama should consider:
Trial Lawyers College
Trial Lawyers College regional programs
TCDLA's Round Top program
Local psychodrama work groups hosted by experienced practitioners such as Phillip Hall and Veronica Veyhl.
About Our Guests
Phillip Hall
Phillip Hall is a Fort Worth criminal defense attorney and Trial Lawyers College graduate whose practice focuses heavily on felony jury trials. He regularly incorporates psychodramatic techniques into trial preparation and mentors other attorneys interested in storytelling-based advocacy.
Veronica Veyhl
Veronica Veyhl is a Fort Worth criminal defense attorney and Trial Lawyers College alumna who emphasizes authentic storytelling, vulnerability, and client-centered advocacy in serious felony cases. She regularly collaborates with Phillip Hall on psychodrama work groups and jury trial preparation.
Memorable Quotes
"Discover your client's story and share that story with the jury."
"Do you want to be right, or do you want to get your way? Pick one—but you can't have both."
"Be brave."
Veronica Veyhl
Phillip Hall
Trial Lawyers College
