Andy Brown's Exploring Emotional Overdraft

This episode is a masterclass in ambition without burnout.

Andy Brown sits down with Circuit of Success host and Visionary Wealth Advisors CEO, Brett Gilliland, for an unfiltered, energising conversation on goals, habits, leadership, family, and what it really means to achieve success without draining your emotional reserves.

Brett’s got the kind of clarity and conviction that’s contagious – and he’s living proof that you can design a life of impact, fulfilment, and balance. This episode is packed with practical advice for anyone feeling stretched, overwhelmed, or caught in a cycle of “over work and under living.”

🎯 Key Topics Covered:

• The danger of goal-setting (and how to avoid becoming a slave to the goal)

• F to the Sixth Power: Brett’s powerful framework to keep life in balance – Faith, Family, Fitness, Firm, Fun, and Finances

• Emotional Overdraft – what it looks like and how Brett narrowly avoided it

• Journalling for success: Brett’s 90-day habit that has shaped his mindset, leadership and wellbeing

• Progress > Perfection: The small daily habits that lead to big change

• Guilt-Free Golf: Why recharging is productive, not indulgent

• Leading with mission and meaning – from personal assistants to charitable foundations

• Why writing things down beats any productivity app

• How to create your own personal “game” to stay on track

• Redefining success: from childhood ambitions to CEO mindset shifts

Standout Quotes:

🟡 “The only person who’ll remember you worked late in 10 years is your child.”

🟡 “If you think you can, you can. If you think you can’t, you’re right.”

🟡 “Write your goals down every day – it’s not discipline, it’s habit. That’s your brain tattoo.”

🟡 “We plug in our phones every night, but forget to recharge ourselves.”

🟡 “When I play golf now, I call it guilt-free golf – because I’ve earned it.”

📌 Why You Should Listen:

If you’re a leader, founder, business owner – or simply someone who feels constantly under pressure – this episode offers a rare window into how high achievers stay high-performing without running themselves into the ground.

Brett’s tools aren’t just for the boardroom. They’re for the kitchen table, the sidelines at your child’s football match, and the quiet moments you carve out to reflect. This episode will help you:

• Rethink what productivity really means

• Prioritise what matters most

• Create healthy, energising habits that last

• Avoid (or recover from) emotional overdraft

📚 Brett’s Journal: Achieving a Future Greater Than Your Past is available now on Amazon.

In this powerful episode of Exploring Emotional Overdraft, Andy Brown sits down with Vicki Young, award-winning entrepreneur and founder of Nalla, to explore the highs and lows of building a business.

From burnout and grief to pregnancy discrimination and the hidden cost of ambition, Vicki opens up about the emotional overdraft she fell into while growing her agency. Her journey is a must-listen for leaders and foundersnavigating the pressures of business, success, and personal wellbeing.

What You'll Learn in This Episode

💡 Burnout is sneaky—until it isn’t.
"I was addicted to the rush of it. I was giving my all to something… banking that it would give back. It didn’t."
→ Why pushing through exhaustion without reflection can cost you your wellbeing, relationships, and clarity.

💡 Pregnancy prejudice is real—and brutal.
"As soon as I started showing I was pregnant, we couldn't win anything. The tap of luck turned off."
→ Vicki shares the harsh reality of pitching while pregnant and how bias against female founders affected her business.

💡 You can’t be the only one holding it all together.
"I naturally take ownership of everything. I creep into people’s workloads. It’s baked into my personality."
→ The danger of making yourself indispensable and why founders must let go to grow.

💡 You will never be ‘ready’ to take a break. Take one anyway.
"For the first time ever, I went on holiday with no laptop, no phone… And guess what? The team stepped up."
→ Vicki reveals how stepping away gave her team room to rise—and why you need to take all your annual leave.

💡 Tiny changes can stop the cycle of burnout.
"I used to unload the dishwasher first thing in the morning. Now, I stop myself. It’s about breaking those automatic ‘busy’ habits."
→ How small mindset shifts can help you reclaim your time and energy.

Why This Episode is Essential for Leaders & Founders

🚨 If you're constantly pushing, always ‘on’, and struggling to switch off, this episode is for you.
🚨 If you think your business can’t function without you, this episode will change your perspective.
🚨 If you find it hard to take breaks, Vicki’s story will inspire you to prioritise yourself without guilt.

🎧 Listen now and take control of your emotional overdraft.

In this candid conversation, Andy Brown talks with Antony Mayfield, CEO of Brilliant Noise, about navigating business transformation during crisis, maintaining emotional wellbeing as a leader, and finding clarity in decision-making. Antony shares his journey of pivoting his digital transformation agency through COVID-19 and emerging stronger in the AI consulting space.

Key Points:

• The importance of making conscious decisions, even when choosing not to change
• How crisis can bring clarity to leadership purpose and decision-making
• The challenge of balancing business success with emotional wellbeing
• The value of setting clear deadlines for tough decisions
• The role of self-awareness and metacognition in leadership
• Managing the emotional cost of protecting team members during crisis
• The dangers of making assumptions about what others are thinking

"You really know what you're for in a crisis. You know who you need to be. Sometimes when things are OK or meddling along, you're spinning lots of plates. But if you're dealing with really tough decisions, then you have a deep sense of purpose." - Antony Mayfield

"The only way to be absolutely sure that nobody thinks negatively about you and nobody disagrees with you is not to do anything ever and meet anyone ever." - Antony Mayfield

Thoughts for Leaders:

1. Set clear deadlines for difficult decisions and make the hardest option the default
2. Don't assume you know what others are thinking - have direct conversations
3. Success can mask emotional overdraft as much as crisis can create it
4. Regular habits and routines are crucial for maintaining emotional wellbeing
5. Being aware of when you're dipping into emotional overdraft is the first step to managing it

Practical Takeaway: Antony shares how he uses AI as a "cognitive mirror" for daily reflection, creating a morning routine of answering questions that help set priorities and prepare mentally for the day ahead.

Business Insight: The episode highlights how financial discipline (like maintaining cash reserves) learned during tough times can create resilience for future growth, and how the same principle applies to emotional resources.

Connect with Antony:

• Website: https://www.brilliantnoise.com/
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/antonymayfield/ 

Take the free Emotional Overdraft Self Assessment: https://emotionaloverdraft.com/self-assessment/ 

Episode Summary:
In this episode of Exploring Emotional Overdraft, host Andy Brown talks to Ken Eslick—entrepreneur, author, podcaster, and founder of the Leaders Lab—about the delicate balance of leadership and personal well-being. 

Ken shares his journey from a young, carefree college student to a thriving entrepreneur and corporate leader, offering practical tools and hard-won lessons for managing time, prioritisation, and emotional energy. This conversation is packed with actionable insights for leaders striving to build sustainable businesses without sacrificing their mental or physical health.

Key Takeaways:

1. The Power of Planning: Discover why pausing to plan is critical for reducing overwhelm and driving success.
2. Burn Down Your Calendar: Ken’s unique method for revitalising his schedule to stay aligned with his goals and values.
3. Duty and Delegation: Understand how leaders can manage their sense of responsibility while building a sustainable, self-sufficient team.
4. Productivity Techniques: How focused, distraction-free time blocks can dramatically boost efficiency and effectiveness.

Memorable Quotes:

• "You’re only going to rise to your level of overwhelm." – Ken Eslick
• "If you don’t have time for Netflix, you don’t have time for your kids or your health either." – Ken Eslick
• "Open door policy doesn’t mean people can walk in whenever they feel like it—it means you’re accessible with intention." – Ken Eslick

Connect with Ken:

• LinkedIn: Ken Eslick
• Podcast: The Leaders Lab Podcast
• Website: The Leaders Lab

Further Listening:
Check out Andy Brown’s guest appearance on The Leaders Lab Podcast for more on emotional overdrafts and leadership strategies.

Episode Summary:

In this insightful episode of Exploring Emotional Overdraft, Andy Brown is joined by Dr Nicole DeKay, a data scientist and industrial-organisational psychologist with a passion for workplace wellbeing. Together, they unpack the intersections of resilience, burnout, and emotional overdraft, exploring how systemic issues, workplace trauma, and individual habits shape our professional lives.

Nicole shares her journey from counselling in a lockdown facility to developing workplace trauma assessments and pioneering research on the absence of negatives in workplace wellbeing. Andy reflects on the origins of the emotional overdraft concept, the power of words like "burnout", and the challenge of building healthier habits.

This is a conversation filled with actionable insights, thought-provoking ideas, and practical advice for anyone navigating the complexities of modern work.

Key Takeaways:

• Burnout vs. Tiredness:
  Nicole explains that burnout isn’t just feeling tired—it’s emotional exhaustion tied specifically to the workplace. Studies show a striking 87% correlation between burnout and depression, making it essential to address the root causes.
• The Trouble with Resilience:
  Resilience is a valuable quality but has been weaponised in the workplace. As Nicole says, "Resilience is meant for extraordinary situations, not daily chaos. If your workforce is constantly required to be resilient, the system is broken."
• Workplace Trauma and Wellbeing:
  Nicole adapted trauma questionnaires to create workplace-specific assessments, revealing that 25% of respondents qualified for PTSD related to their job. This highlights the need for systemic change, not just individual coping strategies.
• Changing Habits, Not Just Systems:
  Andy emphasises the importance of small, sustainable habit changes to reduce emotional overdraft. As Nicole adds, "Give yourself grace. Developing new habits is hard, and self-compassion is key to making lasting changes."
• The Power of Movement:
  Nicole’s simple change: Incorporate movement into your day. "A five-minute walk or stretching at your desk can help release built-up stress and improve overall wellbeing."

Quotes Worth Sharing:

• "Resilience has become a trauma response. I’d rather not be called resilient—give me peace instead." – Dr Nicole DeKay
• "Burnout isn’t just tiredness—it’s emotional exhaustion. And a depressed workforce is not an effective workforce." – Dr Nicole DeKay
• "We subsidise the success of our business at the cost of our mental and physical wellbeing—that’s what I call an emotional overdraft." – Andy Brown
• "Changing habits is simple, not easy. Be kind to yourself—relapse is part of the process." – Andy Brown

Mentioned in This Episode:

• Nicole’s website: humanalists.com
• Follow Nicole on LinkedIn: Nicole DeKay on LinkedIn
• The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel van der Kolk
• Maslach Burnout Inventory

Connect with Us:

• Explore more episodes of Exploring Emotional Overdraft on emotionaloverdraft.com
• Take the free Emotional Overdraft self-assessment: Self-Assessment
• Follow Andy on LinkedIn: Andy Brown on LinkedIn

Steve George is the Head of Learning at the Chartered Institute of Personnel and Development (CIPD). He’s a Chartered Member of the CIPD, a Fellow of the Royal Society of Arts, and a Graduate Member of the British Psychological Society. With a background in psychology and learning development, Steve has consulted on learning projects for some of the world’s leading brands. He co-authored the book Adjacent Learning (2023) and is deeply passionate about mental health, wellbeing, and sharing his personal journey with burnout and recovery.

Andy Brown speaks with Steve George about the personal toll of burnout and emotional overdraft, as well as his experiences with resilience, mental health, and how to be intentional about wellbeing. 

Key Topics:

1. Defining Emotional Overdraft:

• Steve shares his experience of burnout and how it led him to reevaluate his approach to work and wellbeing.

1. Steve's Burnout and Breakdown:
   • Steve recounts the moment of his breakdown: "One morning I woke up, my whole body was just shaking, and I couldn't stop it... I physically couldn't open my laptop to check my emails because I was trembling so much."
2. The Importance of Intentional Living:
   • Steve talks about the importance of being intentional with his time and decisions: "I realised I was drifting... I didn’t know why I was doing what I was doing and being intentional, and starting to think about why I'm doing what I'm doing."
3. Managing the Inner Gremlin:
   • Steve explains how he deals with the inner voice of self-doubt and imposter syndrome, which he refers to as his “gremlin”: "I've named it... and I just set it to shut up so I just park it to one side."
4. Re-sensitising to Stress After Personal Loss:
   • Steve shares a personal story about his father’s terminal illness and the overwhelming responsibility he felt to support others: "I found that I was feeling very much the obligation to support as many people as I possibly could... which in hindsight was partly my coping mechanism to avoid dealing with my own emotions."
5. Creating a Safe and Open Work Environment:
   • Steve highlights the importance of fostering psychological safety in teams: "If you've created that space where people are comfortable being vulnerable, you've also created an environment where people don't mind saying, 'I've messed up' or 'I don't know how to do this, can you help?'"
   • "Vulnerability is not just personal, it's professional... it's being able to say what you're thinking and being able to hear what people are thinking."
6. Trust, Feedback, and Holding the Mirror Up:
   • Steve shares how his previous boss helped him identify his priorities and hold up a “mirror” to reflect on his actions: "She very much held the mirror up and said, 'You're trying to do absolutely everything... you need to stop and take more responsibility towards driving the things that you want to get.'"

Steve’s key takeaway: "Find someone who you trust to hold the mirror up and tell you the things that you don't necessarily want to hear but need to. It will help you grow and develop."

Resources Mentioned:

• Steve George’s book: Adjacent Learning (2023)
• Andy Brown’s book: Emotional Overdraft: 10 Simple Changes for Balancing Business Success and Wellbeing
• Emotional Overdraft Self-Assessment: [Link to emotionaloverdraft.com]

Connect with Steve George:

• LinkedIn: [Steve George LinkedIn]

Next Steps: Subscribe, rate, and review the podcast! Share your feedback with us on social media or reach out directly if you have any questions for future episodes.

Why Listen? In this deeply engaging episode, Andy Brown sits down with ER nurse, relationship expert, and podcast host Jillian Riddell to explore the concept of emotional overdraft and the profound impact it can have on our lives. Through personal anecdotes and professional insights, Jillian shares her journey from being a hidden child to a teen mother, and how these early experiences shaped her approach to life and relationships. This episode is packed with practical advice, emotional exercises, and inspiring stories that will resonate with anyone looking to build emotional resilience and find balance in their lives.

Key Topics and Insights:

• The Origin of Emotional Overdraft: Jillian opens up about her challenging childhood, revealing how being a “secret” child shaped her self-worth and drove her to overachieve in an attempt to fill emotional voids. "I was almost addicted to achievement, not for my internal purpose, but for an external result."
• Self-Awareness and Emotional Health: Jillian discusses the importance of understanding our emotions and their origins. "If we don't know how we feel, then we don't know what we need." She introduces practical exercises like her “Clarity Sessions” and the "Emotional Playlist" to help listeners manage stress and build emotional resilience.
• Overcoming Personal Adversity: From being a teen mum to becoming an ER nurse, Jillian's story is one of perseverance. She shares the impact of societal judgements and how she defied expectations to build a successful career and a fulfilling life. "I had my son on a Monday when I was nine months pregnant in college, went back the next Monday, and became valedictorian."
• Emotional Overdraft in Relationships: Jillian dives into how unresolved emotional baggage can strain relationships and shares how she and her husband worked through their own challenges. "If we don’t know how to unpack those grief cases together, we end up just being each other's source of grief."
• Practical Tools for Emotional Resilience: The episode is rich with practical advice, including the importance of regular self-check-ins, deep breathing exercises, and the creation of an “Emotional Playlist” to maintain a positive mindset. "Emotions are primary energy drainers, but they can also be our primary energy drivers."

Personal Anecdotes:

• Jillian’s Secret Childhood: Jillian candidly shares how being hidden from her father’s family until she was 18 affected her sense of self-worth and led to a lifelong struggle with people-pleasing and achievement addiction.
• Andy’s Reflection on Adoption: Andy connects with Jillian by sharing his own experience of being adopted at a young age and the impact it had on his need to prove his worth. "I spent years, probably still do at 59, trying to prove that I was worthy."

Further Resources:

• Life Without Secrets Podcast: Hosted by Jillian Riddell, this podcast dives into personal growth, relationships, and emotional resilience.
• Emotional Overdraft Book by Andy Brown: For more insights on managing emotional overdraft, Andy’s book is available on Amazon in various formats.
• HeartMath Institute: Explore the science behind emotions and heart rate variability, as discussed by Jillian in this episode.

Follow Jillian Riddell:

• Instagram: @LifeWithoutSecretsPodcast
• Website: Life Without Secrets

Connect with Andy Brown:

• LinkedIn: Andy Brown on LinkedIn

"Burnout isn't something that happens for a day. It is physical, emotional, mental, and spiritual exhaustion."

"All of my self-worth was coming from work. So I'd got myself into a situation where I felt useless and worthless except when I was getting accolades from work or recognition from work."

"I remember a conversation with my new line manager... And I was being like I don't need help. If I have to ask for help, it means that I can't cope. And then everybody knows that I'm not able to do my job. So there was some imposter syndrome as well."

Show Notes for "Exploring Emotional Overdraft" Podcast Episode with Andy Brown and Hannah Holden

Background and Burnout Story (01:37):

Hannah Holden (01:50): Shares her background in IT and consulting, detailing her experience with burnout 10 years ago. She emphasises the high demands and unmanageable workload that led to her burnout.

Understanding Burnout (05:05):

Hannah Holden (05:34): Explains what burnout means to her, describing it as physical, emotional, mental, and spiritual exhaustion akin to depression. She clarifies that burnout is not a temporary state of tiredness.

Signs and Reactions to Burnout (07:52)

Hannah Holden (07:52): Discusses her reluctance to seek help due to imposter syndrome and the misinterpretation of her boss's empowerment as lack of support

Low Point and Turning Point (10:14):

Hannah Holden (10:14): Recalls the moment she realised she was severely depleted, both emotionally and spiritually, leading to a breakdown on her kitchen floor. This low point became her turning point.

Recovery and Identity-Based Change (12:31):

Hannah Holden (12:31): Describes how she used her desire to become a mother as motivation to change her lifestyle and habits. Emphasises the importance of aligning actions with personal values.

Navigating Stress (23:10)

Hannah Holden (23:10): Suggests that understanding and navigating stress, rather than managing it, is crucial. Recommends finding support from others to help see and address issues that may not be apparent to oneself.

Values and External Help (28:21):

Andy Brown (28:21): Highlights the importance of understanding personal values and getting external help to navigate stress and avoid burnout.

Practical Advice (33:40):

Hannah Holden (33:40): Advocates for intentional decision-making based on what is truly valuable, using examples from her own experience and those of her clients

Connecting with Others (37:03):

Andy Brown (37:03): Shares a personal story about reconnecting with friends and the power of maintaining a supportive network.

Simple Change for Reducing Stress (43:40):

Hannah Holden (43:40): Introduces the "physiological sigh" technique to quickly reduce stress. Demonstrates how to do it effectively.

Hannah Holden: "Getting to know your values is helpful... but working with somebody else makes it so much easier and faster."

Call to Action:

• Listen to Hannah Holden's podcast, "Burnout Isn't Necessary," available on Apple and Spotify.
• Connect with Hannah on LinkedIn or visit her website at hannahholden.co.uk.
• Practise the "physiological sigh" technique to manage stress effectively.

Additional Resources:

• Hannah Holden's LinkedIn: Hannah Holden on LinkedIn
• Website: hannahholden.co.uk
• Podcast: Burnout Isn't Necessary on Apple and Spotify

Thank you for listening!

In the latest episode of "Exploring Emotional Overdraft," host Andy Brown engages in a thought-provoking conversation with Alex Price, a former agency owner who reflects on his journey from freelance web designer to the founder and eventual seller of a digital marketing agency. Alex shares his candid insights on the highs and lows of building a business, including the challenges of managing a growing team and the personal toll it took on him.

Alex recounts his early days, starting as a freelancer at 16, and how he scaled his agency to 35 employees before selling it in 2022. He touches on the imposter syndrome he faced, especially as a young entrepreneur managing older employees, and the constant pressure of balancing business growth with personal well-being. Throughout the discussion, Alex emphasizes the importance of delegating effectively and trusting his team, which allowed him to focus on strategic growth rather than micromanagement.

A key theme of the episode is Alex’s realization of the concept of "overworking and under living." He discusses how his relentless focus on work often led to neglecting other aspects of life, such as relationships and personal interests. This imbalance, he notes, can lead to an emotional overdraft where the success of the business comes at the expense of one's mental and physical health.

Alex offers valuable advice for other entrepreneurs facing similar challenges: avoid overworking by ensuring you continue to live fully and engage in activities outside of work. He highlights the importance of maintaining a healthy work-life balance and staying connected with friends, family, and personal interests.

To conclude, Alex shares his current endeavors, which include traveling, consulting, and exploring new opportunities while finding a better balance in life. Listeners can connect with him on LinkedIn or through his website, alexprice.co.uk, to learn more about his journey and gain further insights.

This episode provides a deep dive into the emotional aspects of entrepreneurship, offering practical advice for managing stress and maintaining a healthy work-life balance.

Introduction of Alex Price: Former digital marketing agency owner who scaled his business from freelancing to a 35-employee agency.

Early Career: Started freelancing at 16 and quickly transitioned into running an agency by his early twenties.

Imposter Syndrome: Faced challenges managing older employees and the pressure of transitioning from freelancer to CEO.

Business Growth: Importance of delegating tasks and trusting team members for effective business scaling.

Personal Toll of Entrepreneurship: Discussed the emotional and physical impact of running a business, including constant stress and difficulty detaching from work.

Overworking vs. Under Living: Highlighted the need to balance work with personal life to avoid emotional overdraft and maintain overall well-being.

Hiring and Managing People: Focused on hiring for attitude and soft skills over technical skills, and the importance of creating a supportive work environment.

Post-Sale Reflection: Reflected on selling his agency and the mixed emotions of detaching from the business.

Current Endeavors: Engaging in consulting, traveling, and exploring new opportunities while maintaining a balanced lifestyle.

Advice for Entrepreneurs: Encouraged listeners to live fully outside of work to prevent burnout and maintain mental and physical health.

 Balancing Empathy and Urgency: Leadership Lessons with Julie Smith

 In this insightful episode of "Exploring Emotional Overdraft," host Andy Brown is joined by Julie Smith, founder of Talent Sprout and author of the Amazon bestseller, "Coach Yourself Confident." Together, they delve into the intricacies of emotional overdraft in leadership, discussing the challenges and strategies for maintaining mental and physical well-being while striving for business success.

Key Talking Points:

1. Introduction to Julie Smith
   • Julie's corporate background with Mars and PepsiCo.
   • Founding Talent Sprout and her leadership coaching journey.
   • Writing "Coach Yourself Confident."
2. Understanding Emotional Overdraft
   • Definition: Subsidizing business success at the cost of personal well-being.
   • The concept of resilience as the currency of emotional overdraft.
3. The Role of Self-Assessment
   • Julie's experience with the emotional overdraft self-assessment.
   • The value of identifying habits that contribute to emotional overdraft.
4. Empathy and Overcommitment
   • Julie on empathy leading to overcommitment: "There is so much in there that just shines a light on habits that don't serve me well."
   • The impact of empathy and duty on leadership and personal boundaries.
5. Urgency and Its Magnetic Pull
   • The contagious nature of stress and urgency in organizations.
   • Andy on urgency: "I wonder if urgency is magnetic. You kind of get drawn to it like a North, North and South magnet."
6. Procrastination and Accountability
   • Julie on procrastination: "It's really about trying to get underneath the surface of what is getting in the way."
7. Self-Doubt and the Self-Doubt Tax
   • Julie's concept of the self-doubt tax and its two forms: missed opportunities and overwork leading to exhaustion.
8. Humble Confidence
   • The balance of capability and confidence.
   • Julie's mantra: "I am good enough and I can be better."
9. Practical Strategies: To-Do Lists and Done Lists
   • The tyranny of to-do lists and faulty calibration.
   • The concept of a "done list" for acknowledging accomplishments.
10. Emotional Intelligence in Leadership
    • The importance of recognizing and managing emotions in leadership.
    • Andy on feelings as a measure of thinking quality: "Your feelings are a measure of the quality of your thinking."

Quotes:

• Julie Smith: "Empathy is a wonderful thing, but when it tips into putting other people's needs before your own, it's no longer a strength."
• Andy Brown: "Stress is contagious, and I think urgency is magnetic."
• Julie Smith: "The self-doubt tax is the cost of oversized self-doubt."
• Andy Brown: "Your feelings are a measure of the quality of your thinking."

Connect with Julie Smith:

• Website: Talent Sprout
• LinkedIn: Julie Smith on LinkedIn
• Book: Coach Yourself Confident

Call to Action:

• Subscribe to "Exploring Emotional Overdraft" for more insightful episodes.
• Take the emotional overdraft self-assessment on Andy Brown's website.
• Connect with Julie Smith on LinkedIn and explore her coaching services.