"As an artist I began to feel that I was making collectibles for wealthy people…with apex I turned into more of an educator…and the fellowship is the program that I would have liked, that I think I should have gone on." -Steven Rand As part of a series of events related to the exhibition, Light in Wartime, curated by Rola Khayyat (ep.68), I was invited to speak to Steven Rand, the Founder of apexart. It was a panel discussion with Steven, Rola, Margaret Ewing, Director of Programs, and former board member, Jon Kessler. We talked about apexart's history and the its unique models for inviting curators and accepting fellowship candidates. We also talk about it's "art-avoidance" fellowship program which Steven created, in part, from what he thought was missing during his own development as an artist. Special thanks to Rola for offering me this chance to be part of her show and a big thank you to Ryan Soper, Director of Production, and Elizabeth Larison, Director of Operations for all of the setup and work they did to make the show happen.