In this episode, I share some big news.

For more information on Gift of Life and to join the registry, please visit https://www.giftoflife.org/swab

In this episode, I open by talking about the big decision to “pull the goalie,” as we called benching our pregnancy defensive line (my birth control pills). It was a momentous moment! And then… the score remained 0-0 for a long, long time. In fact, it still is.

A global pandemic, a foster pup, a couple of job changes, and more… all of that was going on while I undertook both big steps and baby steps (see what I did there?) towards pregnancy and parenthood… As I got to know my body and navigated both feelings and logistics.

So, this episode is a bit of a winding one, all about what 3 years of open-ended “trying” has felt like, emotionally and physically. 

Things to think about as you listen: 

• What are some assumptions you have around the decision to “try”? 
• Have you experienced — or considered the possibility of — “trying” while still feeling ambivalent … and what does that bring up for you: recognition? judgment? confusion? something else?

If you’ve also experienced infertility, or are in the midst of it right now, how did that affect your desire to be a parent?

“I definitely miss the old me a lot … the freedom, the ability to just go… [but] I’ve gained so much [by being a dad] - perspective is number one … I have gained an excitement for the future that I didn’t have before.”

Matthew has come a long way from a childhood in the Denver suburbs to (literally) freewheeling around Canada to touring the American South with a rowdy group of musicians to—now—being the primary caregiver to an 18-month old son in [where he lives]. And somewhere in there was… yep ... also a period of ambivalence, for both him and his wife, about whether or not to have children.

Matthew shares about his journey through these shifting identities, including about how politics and worldview played into his ambivalence in the past (hello, diaper-filled ocean garbage patch!), and his honest feelings about settling comfortably into the role of Dad, from joy and newfound optimism to frustration at the way having procreated can get in the way of his artistic creative practice.  

Along the way, we chat about what made him and his wife change their minds to a definite “yes” on kids… some thoughts on going through the IVF process as the not-pregnant, supporting partner… and you can listen in real time as I have an a-ha (or maybe uh-oh) moment about what IVF could potentially be like for me. 

So, thank you for coming along on this chat-adventure with Matthew and me as we consider what might be lost — and gained — on the tender and exciting and wild journey of parenthood.

Things to think about as you listen: 

• How do you, personally, describe your identity now? How has this description shifted over your different life phases thus far, and how might it change in the future? What future changes do you think would excite you? What future shifts do you think would disappoint or frustrate you?
• How do your political, environmental, religious, or other views inform your feelings about being a parent—whether you are, aren’t, want to be one, don’t, or aren’t sure?
• What is the #1 thing you have gained, or hope to gain, by having children? What is something you have lost or are afraid you’ll lose? (If you don’t want to be a parent, you can ask yourself these questions as: what is the #1 thing you have gained by not having children, and what is something you're afraid you’ll miss out on by not having them?)

“So I was really accepting of the idea of not having kids, and I was settled and happy with that. And when he was the one who brought [the idea of starting to try] up, I was like: “Ooh, it’s my in.” And that’s how I knew… It was like, ooh, Look at your reaction; you do want this.” - Ellie Bernstein

Ellie didn’t realize she was cockblocking her own feelings about having kids. Yes, you heard that correctly. I said cockblocking. Let me elaborate: 

A decade into a satisfying marriage to a partner who didn’t want kids, Ellie was pretty sure she was happy with her childfree life. Then, her husband surprised her by saying, “Let’s try.” Her instant emotional reaction in that moment gave her a long-debated and awaited answer. 

In addition to that moment of — um, emotional un-cock-blocking — Ellie opens up about the whole range of feelings she’s had over her journey towards and through parenthood… from loving  ambivalence to certainty … to her WOW identity shift upon giving birth… to the paradox of being a head-over-heels mom while not being a baby person... and to her current ambivalence about whether or not to have a second child.

And as two only children who happen to be married to only children(!) — we talk about how the feelings and experiences of our partners and peers have informed our own decision-making about parenthood. 

Ellie can be found @elliebernstein on Instagram.

I mention “vagina economist” Emily Oster at the beginning of the episode. She can be found on Instragram at @profemilyoster. The books she has written are called Expecting Better, Cribsheet, and The Family Firm.

In this episode, my husband Joe and I do a visualization exercise going through the decades of our lives, imagining what it would be like in each decade to have children any to not have children.

When my friend and previous podcast interviewee, Evan, did this exercise with his wife, he had a clear answer at the end of it: life with kids is the way forward for him.

Joey and I had a different experience. And, this conversation was only the starting point.

• What if I don't have a good relationship with my kids?
• What will parenting do to my relationship with my spouse… and our careers and lifestyle?
• What if there's never a right time?

 And now as the dad of a young daughter, Evan gets real in retrospect about vision vs. reality, trade-offs, and how parents can cope during those less-than-dreamlike moments.

Questions to ask as you listen:

• What beliefs about the kind of parent you might be are influencing your thoughts on parenting?
• How were you raised? What beliefs about the ways to raise children were instilled in you? If you thought about raising children from scratch and not from the starting point of those ingrained beliefs, how would you do it?
• Who are the people around you that you can lean on for support now, as you’re thinking about parenthood, as well as if you decide to become a parent or don’t.
• Intention. Evan talks A LOT about being intentional - as a parent, as a spouse, as a communicator. What are you being intentional about vs. what are you reacting to?

Resources:

Enneagram - https://www.truity.com/

The Wright Foundation for the Realization of Human Potential - wrightfoundation.org - this is where I do my group emotional intelligence coaching, as well as individual coaching. They also have a year-long program called the Year of More that was transformational for me. 

I am available as a resource (and a coach), always! @krissmac on Instagram.

In this episode, I share a series of moments throughout my life that stand out as pivotal moments in my ambivalence: 

• The shocking thing I learned at 6 and my executive decision at that early age.
• My role model for becoming a mother late in life.
• My twenties and the time of avoiding pregnancy like the plague.
• My 29th birthday and the expiration date I stickered on myself.
• How a conversation with a stranger on a hike opened my eyes to the idea I didn’t HAVE to be a parent to lead a fulfilling life.
• Ongoing checkpoints with my husband and the moment we were no longer on the same page.
• How a book, a visit to Poland, and spending time with children all came together with a clear “I could do this” about motherhood.

In this episode, I also share the pregnancy goal I set at the beginning of 2022, some of my emotional journey over the last two weeks, and what’s happening with me right now on this journey.

“It’s hard to quantify a feeling you haven’t experienced yet. So much of deciding to have kids is deciding to let go and have faith you will love these little humans and it’s going to be worth all of the sacrifice and effort.” - Alissa

Alissa was ambivalent about children, until she started trying to have one and the process didn’t work out as expected. Then she got competitive.

Alissa talks about how acknowledging she did, in fact, want children meant she was admitting something was missing in her well-rounded, friend-filled, full life. And that meant a big change. 

We talk about how working with a therapist helped her get clear on her feelings, then how a conversation with a French stranger in Norway challenged her thinking and gave her the confidence to move forward with ‘trying’ (the unprotected sex kind of trying). And when that didn't work, all the steps she took and the competitiveness she felt during her journey.

Finally, she talks about how once her daughter was born, she tried to protect herself from getting too attached to her daughter, not believing it had actually happened. 

This conversation is about her decision to dive into the unknown to have children and all the feelings that accompany that.

In this co-interview with my good friend, Caitlin Nisos, Caitlin talks about her big aspirations, how social change and impacting the world has been at the top of her to-do list, how she sees herself as a spiritual mom or community mom. But now, at almost 40, she’s looking at whether she wants to experience the incredible life experience that people with uteruses can have - carry and birth a child.

We talk about her ambivalence around motherhood, the voices that made her question her mothering, and how having someone around when we’re older could be really nice.

We also talk about how I’ve been courting this idea of motherhood, building trust with it and my body (and listening to my body!), and mothering myself along the way.

We dive into the ways we can really live the lives we want regardless of whether we have children or not, how it’s up to us to meet our greatest yearnings, and to create a satisfying as hell life.

In our very binary society, we've got the women who have always wanted to be mothers and the women who have made the decision not to be. We don't talk a lot about the ambivalent, questioning, on-the-fence women. I am one of those women. And I'm 38 (almost 39) and I have been on a 3-year journey moving towards motherhood. This episode kicks off a whole season of my very personal story: how my identity is changing as I pursue this thing (motherhood) I'm still figuring out.

It sets the stage for the entire season: who am I? Why am I telling my story about my journey towards motherhood? What will this podcast be and what won't it be? What are some of the topics I'm considering covering in future episodes? And, I make a call to you all to tell me what YOU want to hear about. Yes, learning about vag juice is on the list. 

If there are specific topics you want to hear about, reach out on Instagram @krissmac!