In this week’s episode of The Autism Mums Podcast, we welcome back Carl Draper for part one of a two-part conversation.

His last episode, learning to hear a child who doesn't speak, sparked so many questions from listeners, that we invited Carl back to talk more about the topic of challenging behaviours and autism.

In this first part, Carl shares his personal experiences as a parent, how his understanding of behaviour has changed over time, and why unmet needs and stress responses are so often misunderstood.

Biography

Carl Draper was born in a North Nottinghamshire mining village and moved to Bournemouth at 19, where he served as a beach lifeguard and discovered his love for surfing. Accepted into the Royal Marines, his plans changed after a serious leg injury during a heroic rescue, an event that earned him a Local Hero Award and a feature on BBC’s 999 Rescue. He later became RNLI head trainer for lifeguards across Dorset, then served over a decade with Dorset Ambulance Service. Shifting to education, he trained firefighters and police nationwide before retraining as a mental health nurse. Carl is currently studying at Bournemouth University. In 2015, he founded Waveslider, winning the Bournemouth Tourism Award in 2017, and began documenting life with his son Bodhi in 2020.

Key Takeaways

• Emotional regulation in parents plays a crucial role in reducing escalation
• Challenging behaviour is often a stress response linked to unmet needs
• Changes in routine and adult stress can significantly impact a child’s ability to cope
• A balance between boundaries and flexibility helps create emotional safety
• Children learn regulation by observing the behaviour of those around them
• Letting go of social judgement and outdated expectations allows families to parent with confidence

Connect with Carl Draper

Follow Carl’s journey with his son Bodhi on the Waverslider Photography Facebook Page

Follow Carl on Instagram

Connect with The Autism Mums

https://theautismmums.com/

Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/theautismmums

Follow us on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/theautismmums

Transcript

Victoria Bennion: [00:00:00] Today we're joined once again by our

friend Carl Draper, who many of you will remember from episode nine. For those

who don't know Carl, he is currently training to be a mental health nurse and

is the founder of Wave Slider, where he shares his brilliant photographs and

documents life with his son Bodhi.

Victoria Bennion:

Frank Bodie's Assistance Dog is also a regular on wave slider. Carl's last

appearance on the podcast really struck a chord, and after that episode went

live, he received an overwhelming number of messages from parents and carers

wanting to know more about how he supports his son through moments of distress.

Victoria Bennion: And

what's often labeled as challenging behavior. So today, Carl is back with us to

talk honestly and openly about exactly that we could talk to Carl for hours. So

we've split our conversation into two episodes. In this first part, Carl shares

his personal journey as a parent. How his understanding of [00:01:00] behavior has changed over time.

Victoria Bennion: The

powerful impact of learning to regulate his own emotions and what it really

looks like to meet chaos with calm, even in the most public and confronting

situations. This is a really raw, reflective, and incredibly insightful

conversation about unmet needs, stress responses, and the reality of parenting

autistic children in a world that doesn't always understand.

Natalie Tealdi:

Welcome to the podcast, Carl. It's great to have you back.

Carl Draper: Hi, how

are you?

Natalie Tealdi: Good.

Thank you. So can we start by explaining how you define challenging behavior in

the context of autism, and can you also give us some examples of what you've

encountered?

Carl Draper: Okay, so

I guess our definition of challenging behavior is. Changing at the moment in

terms or context of autism? I think the one thing to remember where the child

liked Bodhi is that he [00:02:00] is equally

profoundly autistic and a DHD. So you have that autism side where, he likes his

routine.

Carl Draper:

Everything has to be perfect. Everything's good. And then you've got the A DHD

side, which is a constant clash, which is like letting a hand grenade off in

the middle of everything. I quite often think of Bodhi as pizza. He's perfectly

round cut into perfect triangles and comes in a square box.

Natalie Tealdi: I

love that.

Carl Draper: He just

doesn't, it doesn't fit, but it's perfect, the challenging behavior, it all

comes with an unmet need and an inability to communicate his needs. So going

back to prior to when he was medicated for his A DHD, we had daily challenging

behavior where every evening at bedtime he would.

Carl Draper: Go from

settle to completely challenging, pinning you against the wall, pulling your

hair, grabbing your [00:03:00] face. And what I

realized is I think I was the biggest cause of this challenging behavior

because I come from a world where, I grew up in a pit village. Old social norms

in that world where, you know.

Carl Draper: A lot of

people would say, oh, slap never did me any harm. And the way that I was

brought up, I couldn't regulate my own emotions. So when he got challenging, if

that's the word, which is actually a stress response because of an unmet need,

I would then shout, get angry and become stressed, slam a door and display all

the wrong behaviors.

Carl Draper: And do

the wrong thing. And then after a while you realize that I'm teaching him how

to respond in these situations. So then he would slam a door shout and get

angry. And I had, it's not a light bulb moment, but there was certainly a

moment where I just thought, that's me. He's not listening to what I say, but

he's [00:04:00] mirroring what I do.

Carl Draper: We

realized that we needed to change our parenting behaviors and styles and get

some education. Yes, those differences with the autism and the A DHD, but a lot

of it was based on how we reacted to Bodhi. When he had an unmet need. So

number one, I had to learn to regulate my own emotions.

Carl Draper: Now,

learning to hear a child who doesn't speak is the easiest thing I've ever

learned to do, and he was totally silent until seven. Learning to regulate my

own emotions is by far the hardest thing I've ever tried to do, but we are

getting there and we are now seeing the results. So for every night, for nearly

a year.

Carl Draper: At

bedtime, I had to take Frank German shepherd. out the house and go and sit in

the car until Charlie settled him down to bed. And during that time, you're

learning to regulate your own emotions. You're learning new parenting styles,

new behaviors. You're changing the way [00:05:00]

you are. The way you see, the way you think.

Carl Draper: Learning

to put, his needs first. But you do still get other challenging behaviors or a

stress response, which can cause embarrassment. So for example, he might do

that in a shop. You know, some people call it a meltdown and a lot of times I

used to get embarrassed 'cause I was aware that people were watching.

Carl Draper: During

the summertime we went to a superstore Very hot day. So we didn't take Frank,

it was too hot to take. Frank. We went to this superstore and going to a shop

with Bodhi is very difficult. I dunno if you've ever seen supermarket sweep,

Carl Draper: He wants

everything at everything times 10. So he went to this shop and he had a

fixation at the time over bottles of water. Dunno why he's been through the

same with pick and mix sweets. He'll always have a pick and mix tub of sweets,

but never eats them. He just wants to look at them and touch them.

Carl Draper: He is

never eaten one. But this occasion we [00:06:00]

got to the checkout and he wanted a bottle of water from next to the counter

and, the car was full of bottles of water. The house was full of bottles of

water. Every time we went to the shop, he wanted a bottle of water. So I

decided on this day that I was gonna stand my ground and say no, because at

some point we, need to teach him boundaries and that you can't always have what

you want.

Carl Draper: Rather

than he is going to sort of have a meltdown get him a bottle of water for an

easy exit. So he, he had a full on stress response and it ended up on the

floor. I sat on the floor with him and I was now doing the right behaviors. I

was meeting this chaos with calm. So rather than getting embarrassed, rather

than getting angry and raising me voice, I was calm and I was validating and I

was explaining to him that, you know that daddy can't afford a bottle of water

today.

Carl Draper: We don't

have the coins 'cause we need to teach him value and things like this with

money. And it went on for probably [00:07:00]

15 minutes. And in my mind I'm like, stay calm. You're gonna get there. You're

gonna win today. This is the winning day, Cole. But while I'm doing this,

there's two women stood nearby me. One is filming me, and the other lady

standing next to her who's filming me is saying something along the lines of,

when I was brought up, I was brought up with discipline.

Carl Draper: Not this

woke shit that this idiot here is doing, because obviously it's not the norm,

is it?

Carl Draper: Bringing

a child up like Bodhi or any child should be brought up with a slap or with

fear or with punishment. So we're doing it right and we're doing it with pride.

Carl Draper: So

anyway, I'm there and I'm winning and it's working. And then the security guard

comes over. He wants to know what's going off, and I sort of stood up and I

explained bodie's severely autistic, I'm sorry if you give us a little bit of

time and space, we'll we'll be out of here. And he was a bit [00:08:00] hesitant, but he left. So Bodhi regulated

and then I got him out to the car and it was like it never happened. And me

probably one of the best days of my life. 'cause this is like a huge win, a

huge victory. And I've now started to believe in these new behaviors. Um, it's

working. A little while ago we went back to the same Superstore.

Carl Draper: This

time we got Frank and the same thing happened again. We get to the checkout, he

wants a bottle of water, and here we go again. We get this full stress

response. He's on the floor and then he's grabbing at me, Frank is sat next to

Bodhi on the floor, and Frank is leaning on him.

Carl Draper: Frank

leans on him like a. Like a big weighted blanket. Frank's leaning on him and

Frank obviously is a big German shepherd. He's getting quite big now and

there's like a 10 foot gap around us. 'cause Frank's just staring at everybody.

And although he can't speak, [00:09:00] he's

very expressive with his nonverbal communication. His face is saying to people,

keep walking, stay back. And everybody's just doing that. There's carrying on.

There's no filming, nothing. And the same security guard appears. So again, I

stand up and he's like, you again? I'm so sorry. Yes, it's me again. We're

having the same thing as before, but again, if you give us a little bit of time

and space, I really appreciate your support. It won't take long, but this time

he said well, I'm sorry. Uh, I've been told I've got to remove him from the

store. and I'm like, well. I'm not quite sure what you mean by that, but you

need to rethink what you're thinking. 'cause no one's putting a finger on him.

And he said, I'm sorry, I've been told to, so I said to the guard, I'm like, do

you mind just stepping forward?

Carl Draper: He

couldn't see Frank. Frank was sat behind the back of the checkout. He could

only see sort of bowed his legs if you like. So he steps forward and I said,

you see that? That's Frank. If you've got a [00:10:00]

problem, you go and speak to Frank. And Frank. staring at this security guard

and they're sort of staring at eg.

Carl Draper: Just

turned around and walked away.

Natalie Tealdi:

Brilliant.

Carl Draper: we have

a German Shepherd as an assistance dog, because you do go through things like

this and I've seen people in supermarkets where their kids having, you know, a

stress response or meltdown you can see the fear and embarrassment on their

face and the look on others as they're going past that judgment, you know?

Natalie Tealdi: Yeah.

Carl Draper: I'm

prepared for it in the daytime. I've had sleep, we've had food, but like the

other night, he woke up at one, one half, one in the morning screaming

emergency.

Carl Draper:

Emergency, emergency. So I'm ripped outta my sleep. I jump outta bed to see

what's going off. I tread on a plane, I tread on a train track. You tread on

Lego. I'm falling over 'cause it bloody hurts. I'm naked. I need a wee, I

haven't got my eyes open yet. He's screaming emergency [00:11:00]

and he, for some reason, he's woken up.

Carl Draper: He's on

the plane tracker and there's a plane doing at Bournemouth Airport at 10 48.

It's like one in the morning. He doesn't understand the time, but he's seen

this plane come in. Now he's getting dressed, he wants to leave. Now we're

leaving, we're going to the airport. So that, that can be very challenging

because you've gotta immediately regulate your own emotions first before you

can deal with the situation. So a, put some clothes on other week, get rid of

the Lego that I keep. Bloody stepping on and going down over he's, leaving. And

again, we are getting much better at it. So it's becoming short-lived because

I'm not slamming doors getting angry

Carl Draper: and that

social norms response.

Victoria Bennion:

That's good. Not easy in the middle of the night.

Carl Draper: and that

can happen [00:12:00] on the way out the door

in the morning to work or uni. All of a sudden he's gotta take a wheeler bin

for a walk. 'cause he'd been learning at school about refuse and garbage and

And a lot of the time it is your own stress response to what's going off. And I

think a lot of times that's what we refer to as challenging behavior.

Carl Draper: But

looking back to when I was sitting in the car every night, it was my behaviors.

And I've always said nothing impacts a child like Bodhi more than the behaviors

of those around him.

Natalie Tealdi: Yeah.

Carl Draper: That

started with me. Uh, learning these new parenting styles, and when I've done my

placements with cams and things, I've seen exactly the same thing where quite

often number one priority here is the parents and their parenting styles or

behaviors.

Carl Draper: If you

can't regulate your own emotions, then you're gonna get a stress response to

these unmet needs that come at. Strange times in strange

Carl Draper:

situations and places.

Natalie Tealdi: I

think it can be. Really tricky, [00:13:00]

can't it? Because when you are dealing with those challenging behaviors, your

body, your own response for myself, I've had it where I feel sad that my son's

struggling

Natalie Tealdi: and

then stressed because I dunno what to do. And then you're freaking out in your

own head. But then you know that's wrong and you have to really. Try hard to to

calm down that's the best thing for them, but it kind of goes against your

natural responses in a way.

Carl Draper: It's

like the way I was brought up, if I got up at one o'clock in the morning when I

was a kid and asked, you know, my mom take me to the airport, I'd be a very

Carl Draper: stern,

no.

Natalie Tealdi: Yeah,

different, isn't it? Because they're acting on impulse. We have that with our

son. He came home from school the other day and he wanted to go back to a beach

where he'd seen a tire and we knew that he would not rest until he'd gone and

seen this tire.

Natalie Tealdi: So my

husband had to just reorganize his afternoon to take him.

Natalie Tealdi:

'cause we knew that was what the best thing was

Natalie Tealdi: for[00:14:00]

Carl Draper: yeah.

Perfect. I, I'd

Carl Draper: same,

but there are certain times like 1:00 AM and the plane's

Carl Draper: not due

till 11. It's not gonna work. So.

Carl Draper: You

know, priority there is, right? Sort yourself out, Cole, regulate yourself.

Have a pee, put some clothes on. Then validate, then save space, then regulate,

and then at other times it, the priority can change.

Carl Draper: You just

chop and change, but. I gotta tell you being ripped outta your sleep at one two

in the morning and stepping on Lego and trains and

Carl Draper: train

tracks where he is screaming

Carl Draper:

emergency.

Carl Draper: It

Natalie Tealdi:

That's gonna trigger anyone, isn't It

Carl Draper: funny

afterwards, but at the time it's just not funny at all....