Stephen Toub is a Partner Software Engineer at Microsoft. Stephen has been at Microsoft for almost 24 years and has done it all. If it has to do with .NET, he’s been in it. And today, he looks after all the .NET libraries making sure .NET continues to be the fastest platform on the planet.  He ran the MSDN Magazine before it morphed into the docs and blogs of today. He was a leader in the concurrency and async and parallel programming developments, and now he’s turned his attention to pushing the AI envelope with .NET.

Topics of Discussion:

[4:37] Stephen morphed a few of his many interests into the role he has today. 

[6:04] How moments like the push for parallel computing, the open-sourcing of .NET, cross-platform support, and performance goals shaped Steven’s current focus. [7:37] Steven highlights the two major AI tracks: (1) AI-augmented tools that improve developer productivity, and (2) building AI capabilities into applications themselves.

[10:37] The future of user interfaces. 

[12:43] Why “agents” are basically advanced actor-based systems empowered by large language models and tool calling, enabling reasoning and orchestration beyond simple Q&A. [23:22] Model context protocol. 

[24:08] A paradigm shift in system integration. 

[30:24] How Stephen and the .NET libraries team factor out common AI abstractions for the ecosystem, so that different frameworks (Semantic Kernel, Onnx Runtime, Olama, etc.) can interoperate.

[32:15] Steven gives examples of how minimal C# code, combined with locally hosted LLMs or cloud endpoints, can solve real tasks. 

Mentioned in this Episode:

Clear Measure Way

Architect Forum

Software Engineer Forum

Programming with Palermo — New Video Podcast! Email us at [email protected].

Clear Measure, Inc. (Sponsor)

.NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer’s Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo

Stephen on GitHub

Stephen on LinkedIn

Demystifying Retrieval Augmented Generation with .NET

Suno

csharp-sdk

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Bruno Capuano is a Principal Cloud Advocate at Microsoft where he empowers teams to build AI solutions with Azure using programming languages like C#, Python, and C++. His approach is to solve complex problems with minimal effort, delivering simple and efficient solutions in today’s fast-paced AI landscape. Bruno has led innovation in teams at Avanade across Canada and Europe, transforming cutting-edge technologies into practical business solutions. He is passionate about working with teams, helping them grow, achieve high productivity, and foster collaborative, positive environments. As an international speaker, he advocates for making AI accessible to everyone, empowering teams and organizations to harness its transformative potential. Outside of tech, he is a runner, a lifelong learner, and always looking for his next challenge—whether it’s mastering new skills or tackling a marathon.

Topics of Discussion:

[5:08] Bruno explains how his passion for learning and community engagement led him to a role where he could dedicate himself to education and advocacy.

[7:17] Why data scientists and new AI tools often favor Python first, and how Bruno and his team work to ensure .NET developers also have immediate access to modern AI capabilities.

[10:31] The progression of getting developers into AI.

[11:20] Starting with familiar tools like Notepad.

[13:39] The “must have’s” for developers who want to start writing AI code.

[17:20] The benefit of GitHub models.

[23:47] Vector Databases & Retrieval-Augmented Generation (RAG).

[25:17] How vector databases store information using numerical representations and enable semantic search.

[31:25] Bruno highlights how AI “skills” or “functions” can call external APIs to fetch real-time data.

Mentioned in this Episode:

Clear Measure Way

Architect Forum

Software Engineer Forum

Programming with Palermo — New Video Podcast! Email us at [email protected].

Clear Measure, Inc. (Sponsor)

.NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer’s Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo

Bruno LinkedIn

Generative AI for Beginners

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Per is an experienced software architect and developer with more than 19 years of experience in designing, developing, and testing software. He is currently serving as a Distinguished software developer at Delegate, a Microsoft Partner in Denmark.

Topics of Discussion:

[3:02] More about Per’s background in nearly two decades in .NET and Azure consulting.

[6:11] The concept of a boutique consultant.

[7:00] Founding ATC-Net to share common .NET libraries and avoid duplicative coding.

[10:02] Building trust with customers by open-sourcing “generic” components.

[11:50] Creating a connector to run Olama (local LLMs) with Semantic Kernel.

[20:08] Why Per “fell in love” with Semantic Kernel’s abstraction layers and extension possibilities.

[21:44] The role of vector stores (like Azure Cognitive Search) in retrieval-augmented generation.

[24:33] What do we mean by “vector” in the AI space?

[26:39] What is a “text chunker”?

[31:43] Azure AI search.

[34:07] Finding the right tool for the right task.

Mentioned in this Episode:

Clear Measure Way

Architect Forum

Software Engineer Forum

Programming with Palermo — New Video Podcast! Email us at [email protected].

Clear Measure, Inc. (Sponsor)

.NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer’s Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo

atc-net GitHub

Per Kops LinkedIn

Per Kops GitHub

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Patrick Escarcega is the Chief Technology Officer (CTO) at Meserow Design, a company known for its excellence in developing and maintaining custom software solutions. His background is in software engineering and has been leading software teams for many years. His technical focus has been on Microsoft development and cloud technologies. 

Topics of Discussion:

[3:30] Patrick recalls the moment he transitioned from individual software developer to leading teams, highlighting the importance of understanding how software adds business value beyond just code.

[5:00] Patrick describes the joy he rediscovered in coding when starting his own company, emphasizing the delicate balance between hands-on coding and leadership responsibilities.

[7:50] The head chef and food scientist analogy.

[9:26] The importance of creating a safe environment, a “pit of success,” so developers can naturally follow best practices without feeling constrained.

[10:36] Why readable, maintainable code is crucial, especially for senior leaders whose time is spent reading code more than writing it. [13:27] Comparing software engineering creativity to building an engine from “invisible Lego bricks," emphasizes the hidden creativity involved in engineering solutions. [15:08] The importance of leaders giving developers space and freedom to craft innovative solutions, rather than overly prescribing methodologies.

[17:00] Running integration tests.

[20:41] Accessibility and WCAG compliance explained: Why accessibility should be an integral part of software development and testing workflows. [23:14] EqualWeb accessibility checker and Chrome browser extension.

[25:02] Practical everyday use of AI in software development, especially GitHub Copilot, and why developers should embrace AI tools regularly to remain productive and competitive.

[31:10] Patrick encourages developers to embrace AI and keep learning, emphasizing that continuous adaptation will keep careers vibrant over the next decade.

Mentioned in this Episode:

Clear Measure Way

Architect Forum

Software Engineer Forum

Programming with Palermo — New Video Podcast! Email us at [email protected].

Clear Measure, Inc. (Sponsor)

.NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer’s Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo

Patrick Escarcega

Meserow Design

Engineering Practices for LLM Application Development

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Daniel Roth is a Principal Product Manager on the ASP.NET team working on ASP.NET Core, Blazor, and other web features. He has previously worked on various parts of .NET, including System.Net, WCF, XAML, and ASP.NET. His passions include building frameworks for modern Web frameworks that are simple and easy to use.

Topics of Discussion:

[3:15] Daniel shares his journey from back-end services to front-end development and his role in making .NET open-source and cross-platform.

[6:10] Blazor and its impact on development.

[8:32] A few of the strengths we get with .NET.

[9:24] .NET 9 and performance improvements.

[12:45] .NET 10 Preview 1 and new features.

[17:32] Architectural guidance for Blazor applications.

[30:17] The importance of handling state persistence to avoid memory bloat and security issues.

[32:32] Observability and telemetry in Blazor.

[36:28] Is the nature of the UI web user interface changing as we integrate AI technology and large language models and agents?

[37:12] Integration of AI and Generative AI in Blazor.

[37:38] The new Microsoft Extensions AI library for interfacing with chat services in .NET applications.

Mentioned in this Episode:

Clear Measure Way

Architect Forum

Software Engineer Forum

Programming with Palermo — New Video Podcast! Email us at [email protected].

Clear Measure, Inc. (Sponsor)

.NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer’s Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo

Ep 274 with Daniel Roth

Daniel Roth LinkedIn

What's New for ASP.NET Core Blazor in .NET9

Daniel Roth — Author in .NET Blog

Performance Improvements in .NET9

.NET Preview 1 is now available!

ASP.NET Core in .NET 10 Preview 1 — Release Notes

ASP.NET Core Roadmap for .NET 10 #59443

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Dustin is a Principal Software Engineer at Microsoft. He works on enhancing .NET tooling and contributing to the design of the next version of C# as part of the language design team. Prior to his current role, he spent several years working as a program manager on Project Roslyn. He also contributed in a strong way to the Razor UI framework. He recently presented a session at .NET Conf 2024 on What's new in C# 13.

Topics of Discussion:

[4:04] Fun fact: Dustin has a jazz guitar performance degree!

[3:39] The unique appeal of C#.

[5:06] Evolution of C# and its features.

[10:48] Impact of Async and Await on C#.

[13:17] The compatibility of C# 13 with older .NET versions, specifically .NET 8.

[15:04] How developers can leverage the latest C# features while still targeting older .NET frameworks, and the challenges associated with runtime support for new language capabilities.

[17:04] Hacking the C# compiler.

[17:28] The evolution of records from their initial introduction to the added features.

[18:46] Records vs. Classes in C#.

[22:51] AI’s influence on developer productivity.

[25:46] The future of AI developer tools.

[33:26] The need for better support for testing with large language models and other AI-driven dependencies.

Mentioned in this Episode:

Clear Measure Way

Architect Forum

Software Engineer Forum

Programming with Palermo — New Video Podcast! Email us at [email protected].

Clear Measure, Inc. (Sponsor)

.NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer’s Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo 

The Five Pillars: Leadership For Effective Custom Software, by Jeffrey Palermo 

Jeffrey Palermo’s Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events!

Dustin Campbell on LinkedIn

.NET Conf 2024: What’s New in C#13

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Scott Nichols is a Principal Cloud Solutions Architect at Microsoft. He works for the commercial enterprise division serving the high-tech division out of Silicon Valley. He is also the leader of the .NET and the Azure user groups in Boise, Idaho. He started his career in the IT profession in 1993 as a mainframe and web developer. Since then, he has served as a Lead Software Engineer/Solution Architect, a Software Development Engineering Manager, a Sr. Cloud Software Solution Architect, and a Sr. Enterprise Solution Architect. When not at the keyboard, he loves the outdoors hunting, camping, fishing, archery, and working in the yard.

Topics of Discussion:

[4:03] Generative AI’s turning point.

[5:52] Bridging the AI coding gap.

[6:39] Scott explains the shift in project workloads to generative AI-based projects, both customer-facing and internal.

[7:25] Networking companies using AI to analyze telemetry data and create new products.

[8:49] Azure AI Foundry is a web portal that allows developers to spin up Azure Compute and access over 1800 models.

[13:00] Although a “Cloud Guy,” Scott values his on-prem hardware as a playground for learning and experimenting with AI tools.

[15:04] The benefits of using open source or on-prem tools to start working with AI without incurring cloud costs right away.

[15:40] The rapid pace of innovation.

[20:41] An example of Khan Academy using AI to create an online tutor, requiring significant prompt engineering to ensure accurate responses.

[27:12] AI agents monitoring AI agents.

[27:59] AI’s limitations and opportunities.

[31:56] Testing strategies for AI-Integrated systems.

[35:37] The future of AI and how it’s a great time to be in AI.

[39:35] Great advice for the next generation of developers and software engineers.

Mentioned in this Episode:

Clear Measure Way

Architect Forum

Software Engineer Forum

Programming with Palermo — New Video Podcast! Email us at [email protected].

Clear Measure, Inc. (Sponsor)

.NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer’s Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo 

The Five Pillars: Leadership For Effective Custom Software, by Jeffrey Palermo 

Jeffrey Palermo’s Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events!

Ep 116 with Scott Nichols

Scott Nichols LinkedIn

Scott Nichols Twitter

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Shaun Walker is the founder and CEO of Devessence, a global technology consultancy with a boutique approach. He’s also the founder of the Oqtane and DotNetNuke web application frameworks, which have earned the recognition of being amongst the most pioneering and widely adopted open-source projects native to the Microsoft platform. He has over 30 years of professional experience in architecting and implementing enterprise software solutions for private and public organizations.

Topics of Discussion:

[4:38] While AI can be a useful tool, it won’t replace the need for traditional programming.

[8:32] The gap between mainstream AI messaging and the reality of digital transformation.

[9:22] While AI is a significant advancement, it should be seen as just another tool in a developer’s toolkit.

[9:39] The history and evolution of Blazor.

[13:31] The versatility of Blazor and its ability to adapt to various hosting models make it a powerful tool for different types of applications.

[14:06] Challenges and best practices in Blazor development.

[16:26] The decision to make Blazor official and its impact on the .NET ecosystem.

[18:12] The evolution of Blazor Server vs. Blazor WebAssembly and why both are still relevant.

[21:06] When to use Blazor Static, Blazor Server, or Blazor WebAssembly, based on project needs.

[24:17] The tendency for technologists to be critics without actually using the technologies.

[34:36] The advantages of Octane and why it streamlines Blazor development.

[39:56] The TrailBlazor Conference.

Mentioned in this Episode:

Clear Measure Way

Architect Forum

Software Engineer Forum

Programming with Palermo — New Video Podcast! Email us at [email protected].

Clear Measure, Inc. (Sponsor)

.NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer’s Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon!

Jeffrey Palermo’s Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events!

Devessence

Shaun on X

DNN Software

GitHub

Oqtane Philosophy

ErrorBoundary and Logging in Blazor

Oqtane

TrailBlazor Conference

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Matt McCleary is a Senior Product Manager at Microsoft working on observability tools to empower developers to be successful. Matt started his career in engineering and has worked in tech for 10 years, the latest 8 at Microsoft. He’s been on the Azure Monitor team for most of that time. His passion is listening to customers and finding ways to make the product better. In his spare time, he finds himself coaching his 8-year-old son’s basketball team and playing in an adult men’s basketball league.

Topics of Discussion:

[3:26] Matt recounts his early interest in engineering and a pivotal moment during a college tour, along with his transition from civil engineering to business intelligence consulting, which led him to telemetry.

[6:29] The strategy around Azure Monitor.

[10:04] The three pillars of logs, traces, and metrics.

[15:02] Recording custom metrics.

[17:29] What is a distributed trace?

[24:08] The concept of a custom event.

[27:29] Future plans for Azure Monitor.

[31:04] Integration with .NET Aspire.

[34:04] Guidance on the best practices for Azure Monitor.

[36:40] Application insights resources.

Mentioned in this Episode:

Clear Measure Way

Architect Forum

Software Engineer Forum

Programming with Palermo — New Video Podcast! Email us at [email protected].

Clear Measure, Inc. (Sponsor)

.NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer’s Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon!

Jeffrey Palermo’s Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events!

Matthew McCleary LinkedIn

Matt McCleary Twitter

Matt McCleary Github

Announcing Azure Monitor OpenTelemetry Distro

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Chris Ayers is a Senior Site Reliability Engineer on Microsoft’s AzRel Risk SRE team, drawing on years of experience in cloud architecture, software development, and DevOps practices. He’s passionate about continuous improvement, driving reliability, and sharing industry best practices. Outside of work, Chris is a devoted father, technology enthusiast, and avid gamer. Connect with him online to explore insights into cloud operations, agile methodologies, and more. He also organizes DevOpsDays Tampa Bay.

Topics of Discussion:

[2:50] Chris Ayers’s career journey and formative moments in site reliability engineering.

[3:33] The importance of being open to learning and stepping outside your comfort zone.

[8:53] Chris’s talk on Aspire, Azure, and Open AI.

[9:30] How Chris is improving Azure’s reliability through internal innovation.

[10:16] Benefits of Aspire: orchestration, integration, and abstraction for infrastructure.

[12:29] AI extensions in Aspire: how they enable developers to work with different AI models like OpenAI and local models.

[14:09] Using OpenTelemetry for seamless integration and monitoring in Azure.

[18:38] Prompt engineering: crafting prompts as part of business logic.

[20:50] Exploring agentic AI development and multi-agent chatbots.

[21:05] AI use cases in healthcare and responsible AI principles.

[29:22] Simplifying Azure resource management with Aspire and opinionated defaults.

[32:35] Using Honeycomb and other tools for effective telemetry and logging.

[33:39] Hugging Face and KAITO: enabling access to a marketplace of specialized AI models and Kubernetes AI integration.

[34:10] Running Olama models locally: balancing scale, cost, and use cases.

[39:38] AI as a tool to enhance productivity rather than replace people.

Mentioned in this Episode:

Clear Measure Way

Architect Forum

Software Engineer Forum

Programming with Palermo — New Video Podcast! Email us at [email protected].

Clear Measure, Inc. (Sponsor)

.NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer’s Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon!

Jeffrey Palermo’s Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events!

Chris Ayers Speaking

Chris Ayers Speaker Profile

Build with Aspire

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