BAD PEOPLE PODCAST // S3 EP 3 : LET'S CHAT: NARCISSISTS.

What if the perception that we can just “love people into healing or wholeness” doesn’t always apply? What if for some people, recognising their own destructive or challenging behaviour isn’t really a priority? In this episode, Christa opens up a conversation around Narcissism, drawing on the work of Dr. Ramani Durvasula. We discuss narcissistic personality disorder, the four types of narcissism and more. If our conversation sparks curiosity for you, listed below are some resources and educational materials we have found informative and helpful. As always, reach out to us if you have any thoughts or feedback about this episode!

Books referenced:

It’s Not You - Identifying and Healing from NARCISSISTIC People / Ramani Durvasula, PhD

When Narcissism Comes To Church / Chuck Degroat

Podcast episodes referenced:

WTF is on my mind?! - Mark Vicente / Episode released September 21, 2025 - “Are Narcissists Born or Made? W/ Dr. Peter Salerno”

A Little Bit Culty - Sarah Edmonson and Anthony Ames / Episode released March 11, 2024 - “It’s Not You - Dr Ramani on Post-Narc Healing”

A Little Bit Culty - Sarah Edmonson and Anthony Ames / Episode released June 7, 2026 - “Where Are They Now? Mark Vicente on The Narcissist’s Playbook”

Armchair Expert - Dax Shepard / Episode released May 23, 2024 - "Ramani Durvasula (on narcissism)"

Film:

The Narcissist’s Playbook

Director: Mark Vicente Release Date: July 24-26, 2026

Helpful websites:

https://www.narcissisticabuserehab.com

https://studio.youtube.com/video/TJ-KLO4eNIw/edit

BAD PEOPLE PODCAST // S3 EP 2 : LET'S CHAT: CULTS

In this episode we discuss: what are cults? Who is susceptible to joining one? What are some signals of cultish behaviour? How do culty groups typically operate? There are no black and white answers to these questions, but according to our research, there are definitely patterns and “red flags” that can be identified when it comes to coercive and controlling behaviour— such as thought control, shaming, building an “us and them” view of the world, omitting necessary information etc. Christa and Micah discuss some of these things in the context of Church systems, religion and everyday relationships. Information quoted at the beginning of the episode comes from the book Cultish - The Language of Fanaticism by Amanda Montell (a linguist, author and podcaster). They also chat through some key points of Steven Hassan’s BITE model of authoritarian control. Hopefully you find this conversation helpful/insightful, and as always— DM us if you would like to contribute to the conversation!

Below is a list of resources I’ve found insightful as I (Micah) have sought to explore the topic of cults/spiritual abuse in greater depth:

Web:

Freedom of Mind Resource Center - Dr Stephen Hassan https://freedomofmind.com/

Books:

Cultish, The Language of Fanaticism - Amanda Montell

Inspired - Rachel Held Evans

Unfollow - Megan Phelps-Roper

When Religion Hurts You - Dr. Laura Anderson

A Well Trained Wife - Tia Levings

Educated - Tara Westover

Holy Hurt - Hillary L. McBride

Podcasts:

Sounds like A Cult - Host: Amanda Montell

A Little Bit Culty - Hosts: Sarah Edmonson and Anthony Ames

The Turning, Seasons 1&3 - Host: Erika Lantz

The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill - Host: Mike Cosper / Christianity Today

Holy Hurt - Host: Hillary McBride

Heaven Bent - Host: Tara Jean Stevens

The Liturgists - Host: Michael Gungor and friends

The Bible For Normal People - Host: Jared Byas and Peter Enns

Documentaries:

Shiny, Happy People / A Teenage Holy War (Seasons 1 & 2)

Hillsong: A Megachurch Exposed

Secrets of Hillsong

Keep Sweet, Pray & Obey

Trust Me: The False Prophet

Dancing for the Devil

The Cult of Nature Boy

Escaping Twin Flames

The Ruby Franke Story

Disciples - The Cult of TB Joshua

BAD PEOPLE CORDIALLY INVITE YOU TO SEASON THREE...

Our warmest welcome back as we return for our newest release... OR – if you’re joining us for the first time, we’re so glad you’re here. In this episode we discuss intentions for third season and why we’ve decided to keep talking, exploring, and making space for “bad” conversations… We chat about feminist approaches to research and discuss questions such as “what counts as knowledge?” and “what are the power dynamics at play when it comes to sharing/gaining knowledge?”

We hope you enjoy the greyscale and as always... let's do some GOOD while acknowledging the BAD.

BAD PEOPLE PODCAST // S2 EP 9 : BE BRAVE

In the final episode of season 2, Christa and Micah recap on the conversations they’ve had with podcast guests, and recall some of their favourite insights and takeaways from each conversation. They also discuss the new chapters in their personal life and the career changes that are taking place as well as where the podcast is headed for season three.

BAD PEOPLE PODCAST // S2 EP 8 : JUST RACE

In our episode this week, we talk with Hannah about themes of race, identity and advocacy. Hannah is a Korean-Canadian educator and marathon runner, and in this conversation she shares some pivotal experiences from her youth which led into deeper exploration of her own identity, and subsequently heightened her awareness around racial injustice and discrimination.

The subject of racism/anti-racism can be an uncomfortable one to broach for various different reasons. So with this conversation we wanted to provide an entry point to the discourse for both ourselves and our listeners. If you’re curious about learning more, the books/resources mentioned in this episode are listed below!

The Four Pivots by Shawn A. Ginwright - Reimagining Justice. Reimagining ourselves

The Wake Up by Michelle Mijung Kim - Closing the gap between good intentions and real change

White Women by Regina Jackson - Everything You Already Know About Your Own Racism and How to Do Better

Holy HurtPodcast, Episode 8, Unsettling Ourselves by Dr Hillary McBride

BAD PEOPLE PODCAST // S2 EP 7 : CERTAIN MEN WOULD

This week on the podcast, we chat with Grant Klassen, Micah’s husband of 12 years. Grant is the owner of Goodwood Audio, a company he started in 2013 with a friend which caters to touring musicians - mainly guitarists.

In this episode we discuss:

Finding a career path that feels right Metrics & Tensions: the realities of running a small business

Marriage dynamics, parenting & gender roles

Questioning Christian Certainty Success & Masculinity: how would/wood you define them?!

We hope you join us for this conversation! We really enjoyed it.

You can check out Goodwood Audio on instagram, @goodwoodaudio

BAD PEOPLE PODCAST // S2 EP 6 : FOR ART'S SAKE

This week on the podcast, Christa and Micah chat to DJ, or dwi - a local independent artist and musician. In their conversation they explore the context surrounding dwi’s album ‘Zoo Life’, the song-writing process and some key experiences that shaped DJ’s childhood. They also dive into topics like church music, the idea of God as a loving father, art as an avenue for processing trauma, parenting, self-perception and a whole lot more!

Note: please excuse some of the audio quality - as we had some technical difficulties - we appreciate you listening to this great conversation!

BAD PEOPLE PODCAST // S2 EP 5 : BAD THOUGHTS

In this episode, we continue a conversation around engaging with the world - both on a personal level and technological level; we talk about some of the themes in our lives that feel complex, extremely polarized, and often plain confusing (ie politics, social and cultural dynamics) and discuss questions like

“Where does our responsibility lie in all of this?” “What should we take responsible for?” “How - and why - should we seek to use our voices?” “Should we even care about politics?”

This is an honest check-in for both of us which took place about 6 months ago, and though some of the views and opinions expressed in this episode have since changed, or have been further informed, we believe this conversation is still relevant and reflective of topics we believe are important to talk about.

BAD PEOPLE PODCAST // S2 EP 4 : LIGHT THE TORCH

This week on the podcast, Christa and Micah talk with Shannon - a lunar mentor, plant medicine facilitator, and entrepreneur.

She shares memories and pivotal moments from her spiritual journey, reflecting on:

Growing up immersed in evangelical Christianity

Questions that were always present but never fully answered

Working for YWAM and participating in overseas missionary trips

Leaving Church altogether

The importance of paying attention to your intuition

Jesus, the ultimate shaman?

The spiritual benefits of plant medicine

Facilitating plant circles and helping others heal

Shannon can be found online @themodernhustle.ca

BAD PEOPLE PODCAST // S2 EP 3 : GOOD SOUL

What is the difference between a Pastor and a Spiritual Director? What could it look like to engage with our spirituality outside of a church system and all the politics that come with it? How do we cultivate a nourishing spiritual community, or companionship, when we may have been harmed by a previous religious community?

This week on the podcast, Christa and Micah chat with Samuel Fagan, a spiritual director, husband, father, and ex-pastor from Sydney, Australia.

In this conversation, we reflect on the following:

Sam’s upbringing and family dynamic

His years as a pastor at Hillsong Church

How both Micah and Sam felt when their Senior pastor suddenly resigned

How Sam found his way into Spiritual Directing

Navigating church trauma and evolving belief systems