Banking on Digital Growth

Everyone is racing to put AI inside their apps. We did too, and then we decided it was the wrong approach.

I sat down with my co-founder, Ryan Harmon, to talk about why we changed direction at MetriFi. Instead of trying to recreate the experience of ChatGPT or Claude inside our software, we asked a different question: Why not put our software directly into the AI people are already using?

That shift has changed the way we think about building software. I’m increasingly convinced AI isn’t just another feature. It’s becoming a new operating system for work. Our new rule at MetriFi is simple: don’t build a user interface unless a human actually needs to be in the loop.

Ryan and I also explore what this could mean for banks and credit unions. What if the next generation of digital banking isn’t won by building the best banking app, but by making your institution accessible to the AI your members already use every day?

Timestamps

00:00 Two approaches to AI
03:06 Put AI in your app or put your app in AI?
06:53 Why AI inside every app is changing
10:30 The connector-first approach
16:03 Working across apps without leaving AI
20:43 AI as the new operating system
22:22 Why we changed MetriFi’s AI strategy
23:36 GEO and the future of financial institutions
26:20 Rethinking how we build software
29:03 Our new rule for user interfaces
39:50 From 27 GEO interfaces to one
44:28 What this means for banks and credit unions
48:06 Banking directly inside ChatGPT
51:24 A leapfrog opportunity for community institutions
56:31 Can AI just use websites instead?
1:00:39 Where I’d invest if I ran a credit union
1:01:19 Why we’re making this bet with MetriFi

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Growing deposits has become one of the biggest challenges facing banks and credit unions today. But what if the answer isn't better rates or new products?

In this episode of the Banking on Digital Growth Podcast, I sit down with Bill Bloom, founder of Diane Money, to discuss why helping members become better savers may be one of the most overlooked growth strategies in financial services.

They explore how spending habits impact long-term financial health, why measurement is the foundation of behavior change, and how financial institutions can shift from simply selling products to helping people build better financial habits. Along the way, Derik shares personal stories about health, analytics, and why measuring the right things has transformed both his personal life and his business.

If you're interested in deposit growth, financial wellness, consumer behavior, or building stronger member relationships, this conversation is full of practical ideas.

⏱️ Timestamps

00:00 Why measurement changes behavior (personal story)

04:23 How better analytics changed Derik's health decisions

05:04 Why website analytics inspired the creation of Metrify

07:42 Meet Bill Bloom and the story behind Diane Money

10:41 What Diane Money actually does

11:26 Growing up with 45 credit cards in the house

12:44 Why Bill chose a career in financial planning

14:00 Savers vs. spenders: the two financial personalities

15:05 Helping spenders become better savers

15:37 The pilot program inside a bank that changed employee finances

17:00 How one banker saved over $3,000 in two months

18:00 Why financial institutions should start with their own employees

19:00 The problem with selling instead of serving customers

22:00 Why awareness is the first step toward saving more money

23:54 The surprising spending habits hurting consumers most

25:07 Automating savings after identifying spending opportunities

26:01 Moving from product-focused banking to savings-focused banking

29:19 Why helping people save creates a competitive advantage

30:20 Why deposits are often spread across multiple institutions

31:00 Competing on service instead of rates

33:00 How financially stressed employees impact member experience

35:20 Helping members eliminate debt instead of creating more of it

38:18 Why previous budgeting tools failed to gain traction

39:00 The cultural shift banks need to embrace

41:08 Technology isn't the solution—leadership is

43:27 Creating a culture focused on financial wellness

44:05 Finding $400 of savings for every member

45:07 Why institutions must be willing to change

46:03 Measurement drives better financial decisions

49:00 Envelope budgeting and building better financial habits

50:40 Analytics only matter if people take action

51:17 The connection between personal finance and website analytics

53:00 The universal principle of measurement and improvement

53:53 Final thoughts

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In this episode of the Banking on Digital Growth Podcast, I sit down with Mike Lawson of CU Broadcast to discuss what Mike calls the industry's "member succession plan", the urgent need for credit unions to replace an aging membership base by winning over younger generations.

Together, we explore why fintechs like Chime, SoFi, and Ally have become so appealing, the role digital experiences play in attracting new customers, and why simply having great rates is no longer enough. We also discuss the Innovator's Dilemma, the challenge of balancing branch investments with digital transformation, and how AI could fundamentally change the future of banking experiences.

⏱️ Timestamps

00:00 Welcome and episode introduction

00:40 Why credit unions need a "member succession plan"

02:24 Meet Mike Lawson and the story of the rescued pigeon

08:03 Why attracting younger members has become critical

10:25 What's causing credit unions to lose younger generations?

11:06 Does the term "credit union" create a marketing challenge?

12:52 What Chime and SoFi get right about marketing

14:07 Digital experience vs. traditional banking experiences

15:00 Why Derik switched from Wells Fargo to Ally Bank

18:00 The digital experience gap facing financial institutions

19:07 Can community involvement actually drive growth?

22:25 What website heat maps reveal about member behavior

24:17 The Patagonia effect: purpose as a brand differentiator

28:00 Why fintechs continue to outperform traditional institutions

30:02 The Innovator's Dilemma: branches vs. digital investment

31:18 Why branches aren't disappearing—they're evolving

32:34 How AI could reshape banking experiences

34:00 The future of AI agents and banking interfaces

35:00 MCP servers and AI-powered banking transactions

37:15 Will AI eventually complete loan applications?

38:30 AI's growing role across financial services

39:00 How AI can actually make banking more human

40:04 Can AI help credit unions better fulfill their mission?

40:45 Final thoughts and wrap-up

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In this episode of the Banking on Digital Growth Podcast, Derik sits down with Melanie Draheim to explore one of the most important conversations happening in marketing today: the relationship between creativity and performance.

The discussion starts with a surprising lesson from a backpacking trip through Death Valley and quickly evolves into a deeper conversation about why marketers are so quick to declare things "dead" whenever technology changes.

Together, Derik and Melanie unpack the tension between art and science, brand and performance, creativity and analytics. They discuss why marketing fundamentals still matter in an AI-driven world, how data can strengthen creativity rather than limit it, and why understanding real human behavior remains one of the most powerful competitive advantages available to marketers.

Whether you're focused on branding, digital marketing, AI, website optimization, or member growth, this episode offers practical insights on balancing creativity with measurable results.

⏱️ Timestamps

00:00 Introduction and a surprising lesson from Death Valley

01:00 Melanie's backpacking adventure and the value of disconnecting

05:30 Why everyone keeps declaring marketing channels "dead"

07:00 Is SEO dead? Is brand dead? The danger of marketing eulogies

08:00 Technology as a delivery mechanism, not the destination

10:00 How AI is changing the way people experience brands

12:00 Influencing people vs. influencing what influences people

13:00 Fear vs. opportunity in times of technological change

15:00 SEO, GEO, and what marketers are really talking about

17:00 Creativity and performance: a false choice

18:00 Why great marketing requires both art and science

20:00 Purpose, performance, and measuring success

22:00 The importance of starting with "why"

23:00 What usability testing reveals that analytics can't

25:00 The biggest website optimization mistake credit unions make

27:00 Why A/B testing requires humility

29:00 Intuition, creativity, and validating ideas with data

30:00 A real marketing test: rates vs. monthly savings messaging

32:00 Why customers care about outcomes, not calculations

32:45 The story of selling $9,000 worth of bacon

36:00 Why creativity becomes more meaningful when tied to results

37:00 A broken pen, social media, and unexpected marketing success

39:00 Using member research to improve digital experiences

41:00 What members really want from mobile banking experiences

42:00 Talking to people vs. relying solely on dashboards

43:00 ChatGPT, Claude, and the evolution of AI tools

44:00 AI browsers and expanding AI capabilities

47:00 AI personalities, digital assistants, and the future of interaction

48:00 OpenClaw and what comes next for AI agents

49:00 The future of AI operating systems and digital experiences

01:00:00 Final thoughts and key takeaways

If you enjoyed this conversation, be sure to subscribe for more discussions on banking, credit unions, AI, marketing, digital growth, and the future of financial services.

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In this episode of the Banking on Digital Growth Podcast, Derik sits down with Kelly Hellickson of EmpowerFi to explore the future of AI-native websites, the agentic web, and why traditional content management systems may not be the best way to build digital experiences moving forward.

During the conversation, Derik demonstrates a real-world prototype where AI designs, builds, and deploys a fully functional credit union website, including creating an entirely new youth checking page live during the episode.

The implications for financial institutions are massive: faster development, lower costs, better user experiences, and a future where AI becomes the content management system itself.

⏱️ Timestamps

00:00 Introduction and the future of AI-built websites

01:12 Meet Kelly Hellickson and EmpowerFi

03:00 Building modern MarTech stacks for financial institutions

06:00 Why many financial institutions still restrict AI tools

09:28 The conversation that sparked this episode

10:53 Could AI replace traditional CMS platforms?

12:13 Derik's AI workflow and being a top 1% ChatGPT user

16:21 Building AI-powered tools and website experiences

18:00 The concept of an AI-native website

22:25 Why AI can finally build complete websites

24:20 Live demo: an AI-generated credit union website prototype

25:25 How 140 A/B tests influence website design decisions

30:13 Introducing Claude Design and AI-first website creation

33:07 Using A/B testing data to guide AI-generated pages

35:15 How conversion optimization and A/B testing work

41:00 Training AI with proven website performance data

43:00 AI generates a youth checking page in real time

45:04 Why AI-generated design rationale is a game changer

47:04 Updating website experiences on demand with AI

49:31 When could AI-native websites become mainstream?

50:27 The vision for a fully agentic website platform

52:23 Claude Design → Claude Code workflow explained

54:09 How AI could make websites 10x faster and cheaper

56:01 Viewing the completed AI-generated page

57:44 Deploying the page live with Vercel

59:13 From AI design to a live website in minutes

01:00:00 Final thoughts on the future of AI-native websites

If you're interested in AI, digital marketing, website strategy, or the future of financial institution websites, this episode offers a firsthand look at what's possible today and where things are headed next.

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In this episode of the Banking on Digital Growth Podcast, Derik sits down with Jeffrey Kendall, CEO of Nymbus, to explore the future of AI-powered banking. The conversation starts with a simple question: Why can’t AI help manage personal finances yet?

From there, Derik and Jeffrey unpack how AI agents can transform customer support inside financial institutions and help users analyze spending, automate financial workflows, and even conduct financial transactions.

They also explore the bigger picture: Will banks embed AI into their own apps, or will customers increasingly interact with banks through ChatGPT, Claude, and other AI platforms? If you’re thinking about AI, banking, digital transformation, or what the future of customer experience looks like, this episode is packed with insights.

Timestamps:
00:00 Introduction and why Derik started looking for AI banking tools
02:00 What an MCP server is (and why it matters)
05:30 APIs vs. MCP servers explained
08:00 Why current banking apps frustrate AI workflows
11:00 Could ChatGPT become your next banking app?
15:00 Why AI-powered banking experiences are inevitable
18:00 Power users vs. mainstream AI adoption
21:00 Why many financial institutions are falling behind on AI
25:00 Vendor lock-in and the AI challenge for banks
29:00 How AI is transforming software development
33:00 Why technology alone isn’t a differentiator anymore
36:00 Internal AI use cases at Nymbus (call centers, support, operations)
42:00 The future of AI-powered customer banking experiences
46:00 Open banking, AI, and what regulation could look like
50:00 Embedded AI vs. ChatGPT as the banking interface
55:00 Where Nymbus is taking MCP next
58:00 Why differentiation matters more than technology
01:03:00 Community banking, niches, and competitive advantage
01:09:00 Jeffrey’s advice for bank and credit union leaders on AI
01:12:00 Final thoughts and wrap-up

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Why do so many banks and credit unions struggle to execute strategy- even when leadership agrees on the vision?

In this episode, Derek sits down with Shawnette Rochelle, founder of Excellence Unbounded, to unpack the “messy middle”, the gap between strategic alignment and successful execution. Drawing from her military leadership experience, Shawnette shares why unclear decision ownership, unresolved trade-offs, and slow decision-making often become the real bottlenecks to progress.

Listen to learn how financial institutions can move faster, create better alignment, and turn strategy into action.

⏱️ Timestamps

00:00 Introduction and why strategy often breaks down

03:00 Shawnette’s background and lessons from travel & leadership

09:00 Strategy problem vs. execution problem in banking

12:30 What the “messy middle” really means

16:00 The decision layer: where execution succeeds or fails

21:00 Metabolizing trade-offs and avoiding stalled initiatives

28:00 Why decision ownership matters

35:00 Military leadership lessons on execution and autonomy

43:00 How unclear decisions slow organizations down

49:00 Strategy, speed, and AI-driven change in banking

56:00 Real-world examples of fixing execution bottlenecks

01:05:00 The three questions leaders should ask

01:10:00 Final thoughts and key takeaways

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n this episode, I sit down with my co-founder Ryan Harmon to break down the results of our latest AI traffic study and what it reveals about how the internet is fundamentally changing.

For years, banks and credit unions have focused on driving human traffic to their websites. But what happens when AI agents become the primary way people find information? Ryan and I dig into what we discovered after tracking millions of AI bot visits across financial institution websites, and why traditional analytics tools like Google Analytics are missing most of the picture.

We walk through how AI bots actually interact with websites, the difference between user bots, search bots, and training bots, and why “visibility” inside tools like ChatGPT may matter more than clicks. We also share real data showing that AI bot traffic is already rivaling human traffic—and what that means for your digital strategy. Listen to learn how AI is reshaping search, why content strategy needs to evolve, and what financial institutions should do right now to stay visible in an AI-driven world.

⏱️ Timestamps
00:00 Welcome back and introduction to the AI traffic study
01:00 How AI changed the way people search (basketball shoe example)
04:30 The shift from human browsing to AI agents as intermediaries
06:00 What “AI visibility” means and why it matters
07:30 Case study: going from 0% to 100% visibility with targeted content
09:00 The big question: does AI visibility actually drive traffic?
10:00 Why Google Analytics can’t see most AI traffic
12:00 Tracking AI referrals vs. actual AI bot activity
14:00 Why AI referral traffic appears so small (and misleading)
17:00 Discovering AI bots in server logs
18:00 Building tools to track AI traffic (WordPress plugin + Cloudflare)
20:00 Why pixel tracking doesn’t work for AI bots
23:00 How the AI traffic study was conducted (40+ institutions)
25:00 Millions of AI bot visits: what the data revealed
26:30 The three types of AI bots: user, search, and training
29:00 What user bots tell us about real human intent
30:30 How AI search bots index and retrieve content
34:00 How AI agents actually search (Bing queries + deep crawling)
41:30 What training bots are and why they matter
44:00 Do you actually want training bots on your site?
46:00 Benchmark data: AI bot traffic vs. human traffic (almost equal)
48:30 Breakdown: 88% training, 7% search, 4% user bots
50:00 Why AI citations don’t always result in bot visits
52:00 The connection between AI visibility and AI traffic
53:00 Real example: content driving top AI traffic pages
54:30 Why AI traffic is the new form of website engagement
55:30 What kind of content performs best for AI vs. humans
57:00 Final thoughts and what to watch next (AI optimizing for AI)

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In this episode, I interview Chris Allen, CEO of Fox Communities Credit Union, about how credit unions and banks can stay flexible amid disruption. He explains Fox’s strategy of building three growth engines: retail branches, commercial lending, and virtual banking, each designed to adapt as market conditions change. Allen discusses why steady growth is essential for credit unions to remain sustainable, how commercial lending creates differentiation and supports local economic development, and why branches are evolving into service and marketing centers as digital banking adoption grows.

00:00 Welcome and Guest Intro

01:11 Why Innovation Matters Now

04:12 Innovators Dilemma Framework

06:11 Fox Three Growth Bets

09:27 Designing for Flexibility

11:55 Why Credit Unions Need Growth

15:47 Grow or Die Mindset

22:35 Reinvesting Surplus for Stakeholders

29:26 Commercial Banking Differentiation

35:56 Fair Pricing Edge

36:38 Proving Commercial Expertise

37:15 Cost Barrier for CUs

38:05 Why Relationships Win

39:56 Commercial as Development

43:24 Branches Dead or Alive

49:29 Branches as Service Hubs

53:25 Planning for Uncertainty

58:59 Standalone Growth Channels

01:03:26 Funding Digital vs Branches

01:09:23 Flexibility as Strategy

01:11:21 Closing Thoughts

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In this episode, Ryan Harmon and I dig into a question we’re hearing more and more from banks and credit unions: how much AI traffic are financial institution websites actually getting and is it worth optimizing for yet?

AI search is projected to overtake Google search within the next few years, and that shift comes with a major implication: the primary users of FI websites won’t just be humans anymore, they’ll be AI agents. The problem is, popular analytics tools like Google Analytics aren’t built to measure this kind of traffic. They’re designed to filter bots out, not help you understand what AI agents are doing on your site.

In this conversation, we break down the difference between AI visibility and AI traffic, explain the three types of AI bots interacting with websites today, and share what we’re learning as we launch a new research study to measure real AI traffic across credit union and bank websites. If you want to understand how the Agentic Web is changing analytics, SEO, and digital strategy for financial institutions, this episode is for you.

00:00 Welcome back and episode overview
01:00 Why AI traffic matters for banks and credit unions
02:30 The difference between AI visibility and AI traffic
04:00 How AI answers questions vs. how Google search works
06:30 Why visibility doesn’t equal traffic
08:30 Why financial institutions started asking for AI traffic data
10:00 What it means when AI agents visit your website
11:30 The three types of AI bots (user, indexer, training)
14:00 Seeing AI agents visit your site in real time
16:30 Why Google Analytics can’t measure AI traffic
18:00 Clicks vs. “intent hits” in the AI era
20:00 Why most AI interactions don’t result in website visits
22:00 How AI agents use content differently than humans
24:00 Long-form content vs. modular content for AI
27:00 The tradeoffs of content structure for AI agents
29:30 What this research study aims to uncover
31:00 How to participate in the AI traffic research study
33:00 Final thoughts and next steps

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