In this episode we speak with Joachim De Vos, Co-chair and Managing Partner of Living Tomorrow, founder of TomorrowLab, and professor of scenario planning at Ghent University.

Since the early 1990s, when the first House of the Future opened its doors, Joachim has helped organizations and policymakers prepare for what’s next through foresight, scenario planning, and innovation strategy.

He is also the author of Why Innovation Fails, which examines the pitfalls of innovation and how companies can become “future fit.” The book features a deep dive into the Kodak case, developed with Steven Sasson, the inventor of the digital camera.

We talk about the lessons of innovation success and failure, how to keep a strong vision alive inside complex organizations, and the future shifts Joachim believes will change how we live and work.

Show notes:

Living Tomorrow (https://www.livingtomorrow.com/nl/)

TomorrowLab (https://www.tomorrowlab.com/)

Joachim De Vos (https://www.linkedin.com/in/joachimdevos/?originalSubdomain=be)

Frank Belien (https://www.linkedin.com/in/frank-belien-66a6b815/?originalSubdomain=be) 

Joachim De Vos - Why Innovation fails (https://www.lannoo.be/nl/why-innovation-fails-0) 

Evi Gruyaert - Waarom luisteren gelukkig maakt (https://www.pelckmansuitgevers.be/waarom-luisteren-gelukkig-maakt.html) 

Time stamps:

00:00 Intro

03:35 Bill Gates at the opening of the house of the future

9:00 About the first house of the future

13:00 About the second house of the future

14:45 About the current evolutions

30:30 How does not being CEO anymore shift your focus? 

39:30 What are good tools to better handle organizations?

45:30 Thinking about the future is art

48:00 Outro

In episode 41, we speak with Steven Van Passel, Professor in Environmental Economics and Vice-Rector for Valorisation and Sustainability at the University of Antwerp.Steven leads the EnvEcon group, a multidisciplinary research team focused on sustainability assessments in energy, food systems, and the circular economy. With a background in agricultural economics and years of experience advising climate and nitrogen panels, Steven offers a grounded, systems-level view on how to move from research to real-world impact.We talk about how to translate science into societal value, why systems thinking is essential, and what role technology should play in the sustainable transition of our built environment.Show notes:

Steven Van Passel’s research + contact👉 https://www.uantwerpen.be/nl/personeel/steven-vanpassel/ENV‑ECON Research Group👉 https://www.uantwerpen.be/en/research-groups/env-econ/Planetary Boundaries (Stockholm Resilience Centre)👉 https://www.stockholmresilience.org/research/planetary-boundaries.htmlProgramma Aanpak Stikstof (PAS) – Nederland👉 https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/natuur-en-biodiversiteit/stikstofIEA – Solar PV Market Report👉 https://www.iea.org/reports/solar-pvEllen MacArthur Foundation – Circular Economy & Plastics👉 https://ellenmacarthurfoundation.org/plasticsNature‑based Solutions (Oppla – EU-database)👉 https://oppla.eu/nature-based-solutionsGrand Hotel Europa – Ilja Leonard Pfeijffer👉 https://www.standaardboekhandel.be/p/grand-hotel-europa-9789029526227 Voorbij duurzaamheid – Op weg naar een ecorechtvaardige samenleving – Shivant Jhagroe👉 https://www.walburgpers.nl/nl/book/9789464564259/voorbij-duurzaamheidTimestamps:

[00:00] Intro [02:00] How Steven became an environmental economist [03:03] What markets get wrong about sustainability [13:35] Nitrogen, farming, and the housing crisis [19:15] Trade-offs in climate policy and why timing matters [21:50] The real impact of solar panels and tech optimism [32:02] How oil prices affect recycling and circularity [32:55] Can Europe lead if others lag behind? [48:30] What gives Steven hope (and concern) [50:10] Why adaptation is no longer optional [55:50] Book tip & dream dinner guest [01:04] Outro

For Episode 40 of the Bao Podcast, we welcome Noor Huitema-Hellemans, co-founder of Copper8, a consultancy helping organizations rethink value, governance, and collaboration.Based in Amsterdam, Copper8 challenges businesses to move beyond short-term profit and focus on long-term impact. Their work bridges research and practice, supporting clients in sectors like construction, finance, and manufacturing to drive systemic change.In this episode, we explore what it takes to lead a purpose-driven company, how to align financial and environmental value, and why true transformation starts with asking the right questions.

Copper8 (https://www.copper8.com/)

LinkedIn Noor Huitema-Hellemans (https://www.linkedin.com/in/noorhuitemahelleman/)

Ellen MacArthur Foundation (https://ellenmacarthurfoundation.org/)

Planetary Boundaries Documentary on Netflix (https://www.netflix.com/)

CSRD - Corporate Sustainability Reporting Directive (https://finance.ec.europa.eu/capital-markets-union-and-financial-markets/company-reporting-and-auditing/company-reporting/corporate-sustainability-reporting_en)

Mahatma Gandhi (https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahatma_Gandhi)

Time stamps:

0:00 Intro

1:55 Noor’s motivation for systemic change

4:30 From traditional consultancy to founding Copper8

8:50 Choosing impact over growth: the 15-person team limit

13:00 Bridging research and practice to accelerate change

26:20 Circularity beyond materials: financial and environmental value

34:10 The role of legislation and market awareness

38:15 Who should reach out to Copper8?

43:50 Outro

Episode 39 of the Bao Podcast is a special episode - first, because it’s the first podcast recorded at an external location. And second, because of our guest: a man who needs no introduction... but I’ll give him one anyway - Thomas Rau!

As founder of RAU Architects, Turntoo and Madaster, Thomas is a visionary thinker who challenges the way we design, build, and use materials. His concept of material passports and circular construction is reshaping the industry, proving that buildings should be seen not just as structures but as resource banks for the future. 

His innovative approach has not gone unnoticed - he has received numerous awards, including the ARC13 Oeuvre Award, the Circular Economy Leadership Award, and the World Green Building Council Chairman’s Award. 

Get ready for an inspiring conversation about innovation, responsibility, and the architecture of tomorrow!

RAU Architects (https://anewdawn.rau.eu/) 

Turntoo (https://turntoo.com/) 

Madaster (https://madaster.com/) 

Time stamps:

0:00 Intro

01:30 How Thomas started his career

07:30 Stories about accidents and diseases and how it changed his vision and motivation

17:30 Sustainability vs circularity

21:30 Changing mindset is the only way to make an impact

28:45 Conflict cost - change

39:00 Advising to the king of Bhutan

48:30 Material passports

57:30 Outro

For episode 38 of the Bao Podcast, we welcome 2 people: Kostas Anastasiades & Ben Moins. Both are senior researchers at the faculty of Applied Engineering at the University of Antwerp.

They are also linked to the service platform B.Cycle where Kostas serves as an expert on circularity and Ben is the program manager focussing on sustainability.

Both of them are writing and doing a lot of research on circularity, recycling and waste management, sustainability assessment and much more.

At Bao Living, all these issues are close to our hearts, and we also try to do our part to find solutions to these problems. So we’re very curious to hear more from their insights!

Ben’s research + contact (https://www.uantwerpen.be/nl/personeel/ben-moins_19251/) 

Kostas’ research  + contact(https://www.uantwerpen.be/nl/personeel/kostas-anastasiades/) 

Circular value institute (https://www.circularvalueinstitute.com/team) 

B.CYCLE (https://bcycle.be/)

Constantine The Great (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_the_Great)

Leonardo da Vinci (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonardo_da_Vinci) 

Time stamps:

0:00 Intro

1:30 Ben’s research

9:30 Kostas’ research

18:30: Implementation of research

30:15: About B.CYCLE

34:45 Are there historical practices in construction that we can learn from today?

39:30 Price vs sustainability

47:45 Where do we see the construction industry in a couple of years?

51:25 What are the barriers of today’s society to increase circularity in construction?

54:20 Outro

Lieven is the CEO of Lito and has already participated in the Bao Podcast almost 2 years ago, and is now back for part 2.

He and his team managed to develop the ‘Litobox’: which contains every component you need for heating and cooling your house and for making domestic hot water. It combines a ventilation system that guarantees air quality, a rainwater purification system, the indoor components for a photovoltaic installation and an electrical switchboard with internet equipment. Optionally, a battery pack can be added as well.

Thanks to off-site assembly and testing, your building process is enormously speeded up, as it can be installed, connected, and commissioned in a few hours.

Show notes:

Lito (https://lito.be/en/) 

Lito & Bao Living collaboration for ION (https://www.baoliving.com/projecten/moderne-nieuwbouw-appartementen-in-brussel) 

Time stamps:

0:00 Intro

1:30 Three biggest milestones since previous episode

21:15 Biggest challenges since previous episode

32:25 Surprising/Inspiring customer feedback

42:20 Lessons learned in entrepreneurship

52:00 Outro

For Episode 36 of the Bao Podcast, we introduce you to Pieter-Jan Loyens, the Managing Director of Encon. This is an agency, based in Bilzen, that supports businesses with creative and innovative solutions in their transition toward becoming more sustainable.

They distinguish themselves through their unique combination of ecology and economy, linking environmental awareness with cost savings and profitability for their clients.In recent years, they have built a strong market position with this approach. 

One of their most remarkable projects might be their own headquarters in Bilzen, Infinity. It is considered one of the most sustainable office buildings in Europe. With several sustainability certificates as LEED and BREEAM, the design serves as a showcase for innovative technologies and sustainable architecture.

Show notes:

Encon (https://www.encon.eu/nl-BE) 

Pieter-Jan Loyens (https://be.linkedin.com/in/pieter-jan-loyens/en) 

Robin Bruninx (https://www.linkedin.com/in/robinbruninx) 

Hasco Invest (https://hascoinvest.be/nl/home)

Jean Jacques Velkeniers (https://www.linkedin.com/in/jean-jacques-velkeniers-1053b11/)  

BREEAM (https://breeam.com/)

LEED (https://www.usgbc.org/leed/)

Tectum Group (https://www.tectumgroup.be/) 

HNST Jeans (https://www.supergoods.be/blogs/supergoods-news/welkom-bij-supergoods-de-belgische-duurzame-jeans-van-hnst)

Vario Food (https://variofood.be/)

Upgrade Estate (https://upgrade-estate.be/)

Wanaka Partners (https://wanakapartners.com/)    

Ellen MacArthur (https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellen_MacArthur) 

Ignace van Doorselaere, ‘De essentie’ (https://4-f.be/publicaties/de-essentie)

Daniel Kahneman, ‘Thinking Fast & Slow’ (https://www.bol.com/be/nl/f/thinking-fast-and-slow/9300000043254613/)

Michael Lewis, ‘The Undoing Project’ (https://www.bol.com/be/nl/f/the-undoing-project/9200000065157549/)   

Time stamps:

0:00 Intro

2:00 Founding story of Encon

10:30 Examples of how Encon are helping companies 

19:30 Pieter-Jan’s key learnings throughout his career 

26:15 Work of Encon in construction industry

29:30 Sustainability certificates: how do you achieve them?

34:30 Promising methodologies in construction

38:30 Good business cases for big battery installations

43:45 Cost of batteries dropping

45:00 Circular frontrunners in Belgium

48:10 Reach out to Pieter-Jan or Encon via the information in the show notes!

49:00 Outro

For episode 35 of the Bao Podcast, we invited Anneleen Desmyter, the CEO of Yally. This is an innovative company based in Antwerp that’s redefining property management with a future-focused approach.

Yally’s mission centers around buying homes and transforming them into energy-efficient, tenant-friendly spaces. As a forward-thinking landlord, Yally prioritizes both comfort and affordability for tenants, using smart technology to cut down on energy costs and provide an all-inclusive service through their online platform, MijnYally.be.

Yally (https://yally.be/) 

Quares (https://quares.be/nl/)

The 4-Hour Workweek by Timothy Ferriss (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/368593.The_4_Hour_Workweek) 

Time stamps:

0:00 Intro

01:00 About Anneleen and Jally

05:50 Opportunities they saw when founding Yally

10:40 Meaning behind the name 

13:15 Yally's activities and insights in the market

55:00 Outro

For episode 34 of the Bao Podcast, we invited once again a familiar face. He was one of our first guests, and is back today: Arne Allewaert. Arne is a co-founder and Managing Partner at AMAVI Capital. 

AMAVI is a fully independent investment fund with a pan-European scope, established to support the growth of the leading and most promising scale-ups active in the PropTech industry. AMAVI bridges the traditional real estate industry on the one hand and European PropTech scale-ups on the other.

AMAVI Capital (https://amavi.capital/)

YouStock (https://www.youstock.com/)

Casafari (https://www.casafari.com/)  

Team.blue (https://team.blue/) 

Enpal (https://www.enpal.de/) 

Cintoo (https://cintoo.com/) 

Shayp (https://www.shayp.com/) 

Hydraloop (https://www.hydraloop.com/) 

‘The Last Dance’ on Netflix (https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Dance) 

‘The Man Who Solved the Market’ - Gregory Zuckerman (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/43889703-the-man-who-solved-the-market) 

Time stamps:

0:00 Intro

1:30 Biggest changes and lessons since previous episode

19:55 Looking for opportunities in certain verticals

31:00 Companies on the forefront of sustainability

39:00 Some of the companies in the AMAVI portfolio 

42:00 Water investments

45:30 Outro

After a nice summer break we’re back with a new episode with a familiar face: Chris Van de Voorde! Chris is the founder of JuuNoo, a company based in the Kortrijk area, but which is already active on the other side of the ocean. 

Chris runs Belgium's fastest-growing sustainable company. With JuuNoo, he develops demountable walls, a beautiful story of Belgian circularity that is now also being sold in America. The company has grown tremendously since Chris’ last visit to the Bao Podcast. Therefore, we’re very excited to hear more about it.

Show notes:

Hannah Ritchie - Not the End of the World: How We Can Be the First Generation to Build a Sustainable Planet (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/145624737-not-the-end-of-the-world) 

The Circular Value Institute (https://www.circularvalueinstitute.com/) 

Everyday Astronaut: First look inside SpaceX’s Starfactory w/ Elon Musk (https://youtu.be/aFqjoCbZ4ik?si=su73p5mIrCtfghIj) 

Walter Isaacson - Elon Musk (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/122765395-elon-musk) 

Lex Fridman Podcast - Elon Musk: Neuralink and the Future of Humanity (https://open.spotify.com/episode/1seRMg5Zdg5nBuw0W4Q3WB?si=93588340b4b94ea8) 

Ash Maurya - Running Lean (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13078769-running-lean) 

Ben Horowitz - What You Do Is Who You Are: How to Create Your Business Culture (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/44063692-what-you-do-is-who-you-are) 

Time stamps:

0:00 Intro

1:20 About JuuNoo + changes since previous episode

8:35 Learnings from expanding  to the USA

18:50 Looking ahead: future ambitions

25:20 About combining growth and circularity

39:15 Which market would you like to enter next?

41:00 Exciting new technologies

43:30 Outro