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This week’s podcast guest is Joseph Margulies, an accomplished civil rights litigator, author of three books and many online articles, and Cornell University professor. Joe was counsel of record in Supreme Court litigation that established the right of Guantanamo inmates and Americans detained abroad by American forces to challenge their detentions. He describes one of his current clients as having been “imprisoned and tortured in CIA black sites.”

Joe and Fairfax criminal lawyer Jonathan Katz graduated from their respective law schools a year apart. Joe's father, Irv, was a great lawyer who was a key mentor to Jon when the litigation partner at Jon's first law firm. Detours about Irv in this interview include his sharp mind, and Joe's and Irv's commonality about the importance of strong persuasive writing skills for litigators. Jon witnessed Irv’s taking even complex issues and getting right to the heart of the persuasive matter, with appropriate word imagery and emphasis. Irv's persona shines through in his combat veteran oral history.

Starting with doing indigent criminal defense, Joe eventually shifted from mainly wanting to fight in court, to adopting a more client-focused approach that seeks to know his clients as people, as well as what happened in their life path that preceded their arrest and prosecution. That approach develops trust between a lawyer and client that cannot be substituted any other way, and enables the lawyer to persuasively advocate for their clients all the better.  

Joe aptly says on his main professional webpage: “If history and science teach us anything, it is that any of us can do monstrous things, and if all of us can be monstrous, then none of us are monsters, which is why I do not believe in the Other, that mythical creature we are so quick to find and eager to cast out.”

Asked about approaches to beating the prosecution, Joe admits that he has suffered defeats (as do all criminal defense lawyers), and focuses on the importance for a criminal defense lawyer to sharpen their writing skills, process, and re-writing. For writing excellence, Joe especially likes George Orwell, and addresses his essays, including “Politics and the English Language”.

This episode is also available on YouTube and Apple podcasts. 

This podcast with Fairfax, Virginia criminal / DUI lawyer Jon Katz is playable on all devices at podcast.BeatTheProsecution.com. For more information, visit https://KatzJustice.com or contact us at [email protected], 703-383-1100 (calling), or 571-406-7268 (text).

If you like what you hear on our Beat the Prosecution podcast, please take a moment to post a review at our Apple podcasts page (with stars only, or else also with a comment) at https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beat-the-prosecution/id1721413675

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Storytelling is a key part of persuading in court. In this Beat the Prosecution episode, Fairfax criminal lawyer Jonathan Katz interviews one of his favorite storytellers, Danny Schnitzlein,  who penned The Monster Who Ate My Peas, which was the centerpiece of hundreds of bedtime stories told to Jon's son. 

Danny gives a fascinating look at his storytelling process, the key elements to a great story, and his continued connection with his inner child that enables his addressing fear and humor. 

Jon Katz  includes addressing the feeling aspect of stories, the healing potential in stories, and the benefit of storytelling for transporting the audience into the circle of the story in the present moment. 

Check out Danny's books The Monster Who Ate My Peas, Gnu and Shrew, The Monster Who Did My Math, and Monster Street. 

This episode also is available on YouTube and Apple podcasts. 

This podcast with Fairfax, Virginia criminal / DUI lawyer Jon Katz is playable on all devices at podcast.BeatTheProsecution.com. For more information, visit https://KatzJustice.com or contact us at [email protected], 703-383-1100 (calling), or 571-406-7268 (text).

If you like what you hear on our Beat the Prosecution podcast, please take a moment to post a review at our Apple podcasts page (with stars only, or else also with a comment) at https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beat-the-prosecution/id1721413675

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Many times, Fairfax criminal defense lawyer Jon Katz  has quoted this great passage from the Kung Fu television pilot with David Carradine as a Shaolin priest (1972): “Perceive the way of nature and no force of man can harm you. Do not meet a wave head on: avoid it. You do not have to stop force: it is easier to redirect it. Learn more ways to preserve rather than destroy. Avoid rather than check. Check rather than hurt. Hurt rather than maim. Maim rather than kill. For all life is precious nor can any be replaced.” This is an ideal way to master courtroom battle and to handle any conflict. 

 The Kung Fu stand-alone pilot (Kung Fu: The Way of the Tiger, the Sign of the Dragon) blew away the nearly-nine year old me in multiple ways through multiple layers. Here I was learning both the concept and way to pursue a path other than brute force, whether through studying, verbal combat, sports or physical fighting. That is not to say that I was a quick learner, but that the path was now visible and open to me. 

By now, it all comes together. The wu wei of acting in harmony with the universe's natural flow. The path of zero, with no chasing while fully engaging with the opponent. The cleaning with self identity through Ho'oponopono. Finding internal peace no matter what is happening around me and beyond. 

Kung Fu's initial creator Ed Spielman did not spearhead this story from an armchair, but instead studied Mandarin at Brooklyn College, and conducted research for instance in New York's Chinatown while also being influenced by Akira Kurosawa's Seven Samurai,  

My guest and Kung Fu chronicler Herbie J Pilato sent me his extensive Retro Fan Magazine article "Kung Fu and the Eternal Spring of 'Grasshopper'- A Look Back at TV's Classic Eastern Western."

UPDATE- I raise my concerns (min. 37:00) that even if David Carradine was justified to play Caine, why the absence of Asian people in Caine's flashbacks scenes, and why the use of Asian-looking makeup on Carradine. Herbie says in this interview there was not even eye makeup, but David Carradine instead said in 1991: "Yeah. They put a little tiny corner at the inside of my eyes. It made my eyes look slightly more Oriental, and they painted me yellow." https://www.npr.org/transcripts/104959308?storyId=104959308

This episode is on YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7gjVGd-q0Q

This podcast with Fairfax, Virginia criminal / DUI lawyer Jon Katz is playable on all devices at podcast.BeatTheProsecution.com. For more information, visit https://KatzJustice.com or contact us at [email protected], 703-383-1100 (calling), or 571-406-7268 (text).

If you like what you hear on our Beat the Prosecution podcast, please take a moment to post a review at our Apple podcasts page (with stars only, or else also with a comment) at https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beat-the-prosecution/id1721413675

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Psychodrama plays a major role at the Trial Lawyers College that Fairfax criminal defense lawyer Jonathan Katz attended for a full month in 1995. Psychodrama was founded by Jacob L Moreno and taught and pursued in depth by him and his wife Zerka. 

Jon Katz is delighted in this Beat the Prosecution episode to be joined by J.L. Moreno's son Jonathan, and Jon Katz's fellow criminal defense attorney Christopher Flohr, also a TLC alum and a proponent of psychodrama. 

Here, Jonathan Moreno addresses the roots of psychodrama in working with actors, and proceeding to its use in mental health settings. Interspersed are great anecdotes about J.L. Moreno's apt quip to Sigmund Freud, his friendship with Peter Lorre, and his connection to Martin Buber. 

Read Jonathan Moreno's Impromp­tu Man: J.L. Moreno and the Ori­gins of Psy­chodra­ma Encounter Cul­ture and the Social Network. Hear my 2024 talk with J.L. Moreno's student Don Clarkson and Chris Flohr. Visit Jonathan Moreno's biographical page at the University of Pennsylvania website. Visit Chris Flohr's website.

This podcast with Fairfax, Virginia criminal / DUI lawyer Jon Katz is playable on all devices at podcast.BeatTheProsecution.com. For more information, visit https://KatzJustice.com or contact us at [email protected], 703-383-1100 (calling), or 571-406-7268 (text).

If you like what you hear on our Beat the Prosecution podcast, please take a moment to post a review at our Apple podcasts page (with stars only, or else also with a comment) at https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beat-the-prosecution/id1721413675

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Fairfax criminal lawyer Jonathan Katz's go-to lawyers for referrals for District of Columbia criminal defense are Michael Bruckheim and Sweta Patel at Bruckheim & Patel. Sweta and Mike regularly refer potential Virginia criminal and DWI defense clients to Jon Katz. Jon's confidence in Michael and Sweta arises from their consistently strong defense work, caring for their clients, and powerfully optimistic zeal. 

In this Beat the Prosecution podcast episode, you will hear Jon, Sweta and Mike talk in unvarnished terms about the strengths and weaknesses of the criminal justice system, and how to pursue criminal defendants' best defense no matter the hurdles on that path. Mike Bruckheim is our second former prosecutor guest, with previous guest Tony Serra having prosecuted for a short period before switching to criminal defense. Not all prosecutors automatically take to the transplant from prosecution to defense, but Mike has done great with that transition. 

The positive energy of Sweta and Mike is like a great contagion. Prosecutors, police and others in the courthouse can try all they want to beat down on criminal defense lawyers, but what matters in the end is not any bluster, but what happens on the wrestling mat of the courtroom. What this conversation boils down to is winning with powerfully optimistic zeal. 

This episode is on YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hv-Ow12-4Qs

This podcast with Fairfax, Virginia criminal / DUI lawyer Jon Katz is playable on all devices at podcast.BeatTheProsecution.com. For more information, visit https://KatzJustice.com or contact us at [email protected], 703-383-1100 (calling), or 571-406-7268 (text).

If you like what you hear on our Beat the Prosecution podcast, please take a moment to post a review at our Apple podcasts page (with stars only, or else also with a comment) at https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beat-the-prosecution/id1721413675

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Fairfax criminal lawyer Jonathan Katz last month joined several hundred attendees at the Boone, NC, Ram Dass mountain legacy retreat. The experience was wonderful, with people connecting at the heart and soul level, in the beautiful mountains and clean air. Our last podcast episode features Raghu Markus, the executive director of the Ram Dass Love Serve Remember Foundation. 

Among those on stage at this Boone mountain retreat was Nina Rao, who with a beyond beautiful voice chants mantra, sings, and shares her essence. Nina is the yin to the yang of dharma teacher and kirtan star Krishna Das (whom Jon Katz also met at this retreat), with whom she has been closely connected for years. 

Jon loves the voices and music of both Nina Rao and Krishna Das. In this podcast episode, Nina shares her essence, experiences, ideas and voice. Hear her chant at minute 44:00, and get her great CD's "Anubhav" and "Antarayaami: Knower of All Hearts". Krishna Das's great music includes "Trust in the Heart" and much more. 

What does Nina Rao have to do with beating the prosecution? Winning in court in important part involves finding and expressing one's voice. In fact, at the Trial Lawyers College, each attendee was expected to sing solo before the group at one point or another. Jon believes strongly in finding calm in the eye of the storm, and he has attended lawyers' mindfulness retreats and previously joined with numerous gatherings of a once active local contemplative lawyers group. Hear Nina talk about living a meaningful life no matter the turmoil, about universal love, wisdom, the gifts of her teacher Sri Siddhi Ma, clarity, and giving voice to our souls. 

This episode is also available on YouTube. 

Deeply thanking and bowing to Nina Rao. 

This podcast with Fairfax, Virginia criminal / DUI lawyer Jon Katz is playable on all devices at podcast.BeatTheProsecution.com. For more information, visit https://KatzJustice.com or contact us at [email protected], 703-383-1100 (calling), or 571-406-7268 (text).

If you like what you hear on our Beat the Prosecution podcast, please take a moment to post a review at our Apple podcasts page (with stars only, or else also with a comment) at https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beat-the-prosecution/id1721413675

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After attending a great mid-August mountain retreat celebrating Ram Dass (born Richard Alpert) with several hundred people -- complete with kirtan with Krishna Das (lead singer of the precursor to Blue Oyster Cult), Nina Rao, David Nichtern (who wrote "Midnight at the Oasis", for starters) and more; talks by Robert Thurman and more; and a deep rapport with many -- Fairfax criminal defense lawyer Jonathan Katz returned from the mountains and found himself repeating old patterns in dealing with such challenges as tailgating drivers. 

Three weeks later, Jon Katz joined his friend and peace teacher Jun Yasuda for a whole weekend at her battery-recharging peace pagoda in upstate New York, where the days were filled with mindful eating, doing concrete work, stacking wood, driving through the beautiful mountains to Bennington, VT for supplies, and repeatedly chanting the Odaimoku and sections of the Lotus Sutra. By then, Jon got back on track with the importance of focusing on both an open heart and internal peacefulness -- together with keeping touch with like-minded people -- as the way to integrate this practice in dealing with challenging people and situations, where sometimes the most challenging people are really ourselves. This applies well both to his personal life and life as a criminal defense lawyer. 

Blessing us in joining this Beat the Prosecution episode is Raghu Markus, a friend of the late Ram Dass and executive director of the Ram Dass Love Serve Remember Foundation (donate here and subscribe here to the foundation's extensive learning material). Raghu talks about connecting with Ram Dass and their mutual guide Neem Karoli Baba (Maharaji), how Raghu's father's joining Raghu and Maharaji in India marked a turning point in their father-son relationship, and how Raghu also can be challenged in fully applying his lessons from Maharaji in dealing with challenging situations. This is about constant daily practice, work, and connecting with like-minded people. 

This episode is also on YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHm_v0Ddab0

This podcast with Fairfax, Virginia criminal / DUI lawyer Jon Katz is playable on all devices at podcast.BeatTheProsecution.com. For more information, visit https://KatzJustice.com or contact us at [email protected], 703-383-1100 (calling), or 571-406-7268 (text).

If you like what you hear on our Beat the Prosecution podcast, please take a moment to post a review at our Apple podcasts page (with stars only, or else also with a comment) at https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beat-the-prosecution/id1721413675

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When Fairfax criminal defense / DUI lawyer Jonathan Katz joined with Ramsey Clark in defending the Plowshares activists for their 2000 criminal jury trial for their depleted uranium action, one of the group's supporters suggested getting ideas from lawyer David Walsh-Little , who served as standby trial counsel to the  Gods of Metal Plowshares Five in 1998. In the interim, Jon instead consulted with another lawyer who had defended a slew of political activists. 

Now, twenty-five years later, Jon Katz for the first time talks with David Walsh-Little, about winning with a devotion to true justice. David and his wife met in college and organized against Gulf War I when Jon was visiting peace protestors during lunchtime across from the White House, three blocks from the corporate law firm where Jon then worked, several months before Jon transitioned to his true love of criminal defense, with a nearby public defender's office. David became a public defender lawyer, and then transitioned to running a legal office from the Viva Catholic Worker House in Baltimore, followed by returning to public defender work at the state and then federal levels, and now in his solo law practice. In law school, David worked for William Kunstler and Ron Kuby. 

David does not see a secret to beating the prosecution beyond full devotion to our clients and strong experience. He makes a good point about the times that prosecutors ensnare themselves in weakness. David is a progressive lawyer and a true believer in the work he does. This episode is also available on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmJnytznE2c . 

This podcast with Fairfax, Virginia criminal / DUI lawyer Jon Katz is playable on all devices at podcast.BeatTheProsecution.com. For more information, visit https://KatzJustice.com or contact us at [email protected], 703-383-1100 (calling), or 571-406-7268 (text).

If you like what you hear on our Beat the Prosecution podcast, please take a moment to post a review at our Apple podcasts page (with stars only, or else also with a comment) at https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beat-the-prosecution/id1721413675

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Fairfax, Virginia criminal defense lawyer Jonathan Katz's teacher Gerry Spence lived until 96 years, and transitioned from his body on August 13, 2025. Gerry has had a profound and lifelong impact on Jon Katz's personal and professional lives, as he has had on thousands of people's lives. 

Great public defender lawyer Shalev Ben-Avraham in this episode joins Jon Katz in diving deep in illustrating the great gifts from Gerry and in deeply thanking and bowing to him. 

No liner note substitute exists for listening to what Jon and Shalev have to say in this episode. 

This video is also available on YouTube and on Apple Podcasts. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rk_U4BajNnI 

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/gerry-spences-gifts-live-on-talk-by-his-students-jon/id1721413675?i=1000722965208

This podcast with Fairfax, Virginia criminal / DUI lawyer Jon Katz is playable on all devices at podcast.BeatTheProsecution.com. For more information, visit https://KatzJustice.com or contact us at [email protected], 703-383-1100 (calling), or 571-406-7268 (text).

If you like what you hear on our Beat the Prosecution podcast, please take a moment to post a review at our Apple podcasts page (with stars only, or else also with a comment) at https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beat-the-prosecution/id1721413675

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Fairfax criminal lawyer Jonathan Katz started law school seeing the glass as more half empty than full when it came to protecting people's Constitutional rights and civil liberties. That situation began shifting as Jon Katz learned about the many people around him who not only were fighting like hell for the side of justice, but who refused to depart from their optimism. 

One of those lawyers is Gerald Zerkin. Jerry's name became more well known with his helping to get Earl Washington, Jr., off death row with DNA analysis. Then, Jerry became the death penalty defense-eligible lawyer on the team defending Zacarias Moussaoui against the federal death penalty, where the prosecution was unable to put him on death row. 

It is not enough to have the skill to be a criminal defense lawyer. The fire in a great criminal defense lawyer's belly, true caring for the defendant in the attorney's heart, and being a true believer can provide an attorney that oomph spelling the difference between winning or not. 

This Beat The Prosecution episode is also available on YouTube. 

This podcast with Fairfax, Virginia criminal / DUI lawyer Jon Katz is playable on all devices at podcast.BeatTheProsecution.com. For more information, visit https://KatzJustice.com or contact us at [email protected], 703-383-1100 (calling), or 571-406-7268 (text).

If you like what you hear on our Beat the Prosecution podcast, please take a moment to post a review at our Apple podcasts page (with stars only, or else also with a comment) at https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beat-the-prosecution/id1721413675