Bee Formless™ Flow Driven CEO

In this episode of the Bee Formless™ Flow Driven CEO Podcast, I connected with Lana Hailemariam, CEO of StandUP and Co-creator of The Flourish Lab, and somewhere between leadership, leaking roofs, creativity, success and her decision to stop complaining, we landed on something many of us are wrestling with: have we become so consumed by what demands our attention that we are losing sight of what could actually move us forward?

Lana sees leadership as something we continually become rather than a role we eventually arrive at, which opened up an interesting conversation about the loops we fall into when everything feels urgent. We can answer emails, hit deadlines, put out fires and keep proving how busy we are, while leaving almost no space to challenge our thinking or imagine something different.

Her own path into leadership was anything but linear. A graduate career plan disappeared when the market shifted, sales taught her that money alone wasn’t enough, and an unexpected opportunity inside a church became one of the places she learned the most about people, purpose and what leadership asks of us.

What I loved was how often Lana brought the conversation back to choice. As she put it, “when the octopus is on your face, it really limits your perspective.” When everything feels hard, do we stay inside the complaint and whatever is immediately on fire, or pull back enough to see what else is possible?

That same question followed us into creativity and success. Lana believes we need people and environments that interrupt familiar patterns, challenge how we think and remind us that possibility still exists. If we never define success for ourselves, we can spend years acquiring things from the outside without asking whether they are creating anything meaningful within.

THE SHAPE SHIFT IN MOTION

Leadership evolves when we stop mistaking motion for growth and become more intentional about what we are actually creating.

LEARN (LETTING GO)

✨ Let go of busy as proof that we are doing meaningful work.

✨ Release the belief that leadership has one shape or personality.

✨ Notice when complaining is keeping us inside the problem.

UNLEARN (CREATE, REIMAGINE & RESHAPE)

✨ Reimagine leadership as something we continually become.

✨ Create space for perspectives that challenge our own.

✨ Reshape success around what matters from the inside out.

RELEARN (TEST & IMPLEMENT)

✨ Protect time to reflect before automatically reacting.

✨ Surround yourself with people who expand what feels possible.

✨ Interrupt familiar patterns before they become unconscious loops.

ACTIVE RECOVERY (REFLECT & RESET)

✨ Where has busy become a substitute for progress?

✨ What are you complaining about that may be asking you to change something?

✨ Are you living your definition of success or somebody else’s?

🔗 https://www.linkedin.com/in/lanahailemariam/

🔗 https://www.linkedin.com/company/teamstandup/

💭 What changes when you stop proving you are busy and start asking whether you are growing?

Book a Strategic Shape Shift Diagnostic to illuminate what needs to shift across leadership, business and brand, from the inside out.

🔗 https://calendly.com/beeformless/strategicshapeshiftdiagnostic

#beeformless #flowdrivenceo #leadershipdevelopment #creativity #growthmindset #success #intentional #busy

In this episode of the Bee Formless™ Flow Driven CEO Podcast, I reconnected with Vaishali James, Co-Founder of Sangatna Angels, as they celebrated their first investment into a female-led agritech business in India.

Fittingly, our conversation began with improvisation. When our original recording platform didn't work, Vaishali connected the moment to Bee Formless™ herself: water takes the shape of whatever holds it. Sometimes we have to leave one form without knowing what the next will be.

Vaishali knows something about that. After 19 years in one organisation, she realised she was “running very hard on a treadmill and going nowhere.” She left without another job or a mapped next move.

That journey led to Sangatna Angels and a question she could no longer ignore: why are more women becoming entrepreneurs while so little investment capital reaches them?

Vaishali has watched female founders be questioned about marriage, pregnancy and risk while male founders are asked about revenue, growth and scale. What happens when we absorb those expectations and become harder, louder or more aggressive because we think that is how we need to compete?

Her answer was one of my favourite parts of our conversation: compete, absolutely, but compete from your strengths.

We discussed the same tension through patient capital: investing for change that takes time while still demanding immediate growth and returns. And another question founders don't always ask soon enough: what happens when the capital you wanted begins changing the DNA of the business you built?

For Vaishali, this comes back to the why; brand begins with why the business exists, creating an anchor as the business, capital and world around it change.

THE SHAPE SHIFT IN MOTION

How do we grow without allowing outside expectations to reshape what matters on the inside?

LEARN (LETTING GO)

✨ Let go of the belief that funding automatically means aligned growth.

✨ Release the need to perform someone else’s version of success.

✨ Recognise when speed is pulling us away from the problem we came to solve.

UNLEARN (CREATE, REIMAGINE & RESHAPE)

✨ Reimagine capital around patience, alignment and longer-term impact.

✨ Create space for women to compete from their strengths, not borrowed behaviours.

✨ Reshape growth around the why rather than allowing growth to reshape it.

RELEARN (TEST & IMPLEMENT)

✨ Choose capital that aligns with the business you actually want to build.

✨ Build brand from purpose before trying to retrofit the story later.

✨ Stay with the entrepreneurial journey long enough to learn what it can become.

ACTIVE RECOVERY (REFLECT & RESET)

✨ Where are outside expectations changing how you show up?

✨ Is your growth still aligned with why you began?

✨ What might need more patience before you decide it isn't working?

🔗 https://www.linkedin.com/in/vaishali-james-25066815/

🌐 https://www.sangatna.com/

💭 Where are you trying to fit the room instead of competing from your strengths?

Book a Strategic Shape Shift Diagnostic to illuminate what needs to shift across leadership, business and brand, from the inside out.

🔗 https://calendly.com/beeformless/strategicshapeshiftdiagnostic

#beeformless #flowdrivenceo #sangatnaangels #femalefounders #patientcapital #impactinvesting #insideouttransfromation #womeninvc

In this episode of the Bee Formless™ Flow Driven CEO Podcast, I connected with Hailey Mason, Founder & CEO of evatto™, whose 25-year career has taken her inside some of the world’s most complex events, from Red Bull to international sporting events and the FIFA Women’s World Cup.

What happens when you know an industry deeply enough to recognise that the way it has always worked can no longer carry where it is going?

For Hailey, that meant questioning an events ecosystem still held together by spreadsheets, PowerPoints, email approvals and knowledge living inside people’s heads. Engineering has JIRA, sales has Salesforce, yet events still have no real system of work. When a process taking her team 20–30 hours suddenly took minutes, another form started to become possible.

I loved where this took our conversation, because building that next form has also meant Hailey reshaping herself. Startmate pushed her harder than an already intense career in events ever had, while the roadmap beneath her kept changing. As a single mum to twin boys, she worked extraordinary hours, but kept mountain biking, listened when her body needed rest and leaned on the community around her. Moving fast didn’t mean doing everything alone.

We explored what happens when new ways of working collide with decades of experience, why people need trust to let go of what they know, and whether removing more of the work that weighs us down might actually create more space for what makes us human: creativity, critical thinking, connection and extraordinary experiences.

When, I asked Hailey what she would tell a founder at the beginning of the journey, her answer felt wonderfully aligned with everything we had explored: “Don’t try to be perfect. Just try to move quickly.”

THE SHAPE SHIFT IN MOTION

What happens when an industry has outgrown the systems that helped build it?

LEARN (LETTING GO)

✨ Let go of ways of working we keep simply because they are familiar.

✨ Release the need to perfect something before putting it into motion.

✨ Recognise when complexity is taking people away from the work they are there to do.

UNLEARN (CREATE, REIMAGINE & RESHAPE)

✨ Reimagine an event ecosystem designed for where the industry is going.

✨ Create systems that capture knowledge rather than losing it with individuals.

✨ Reshape technology around human creativity, critical thinking and connection.

RELEARN (TEST & IMPLEMENT)

✨ Test the problem deeply before scaling the solution.

✨ Move, learn and adapt while the environment around you is changing.

✨ Bring people through transformation with champions, education and trust.

ACTIVE RECOVERY (REFLECT & RESET)

✨ Where has the way you work outgrown the systems supporting it?

✨ What are you trying to perfect that would be better tested?

✨ What do you need to protect so moving faster doesn’t come at the expense of yourself?

🔗 https://www.linkedin.com/in/haileymason/

🌐 https://evatto.ai

💭 What old way of working are you ready to stop carrying into what comes next?

Book a Strategic Shape Shift Diagnostic to illuminate what needs to shift across leadership, business and brand, from the inside out.

🔗 https://calendly.com/beeformless/strategicshapeshiftdiagnostic

#beeformless #flowdrivenceo #evatto #eventtech #events #founders #innovation #futureofwork #insideouttransformation

In this episode of the Bee Formless™ Flow Driven CEO Podcast, I connected with Cathryn McLauchlan, Experimentation Manager at News Corp, Co-Founder of Vizall and mum of three boys, to explore what changes when we stop trying to get everything right.

Experimentation is part of Cathryn’s working life: test something small, learn from what happens and use that insight to shape what comes next. I really loved how naturally that thinking flowed into our conversation about motherhood, creativity, identity and the pressure we place on ourselves to have things figured out.

Cathryn is writing a book about innovation in motherhood, born partly from her own experience of moving from work into maternity leave and missing the intellectual stimulation and creativity that had always been part of her. We explored who we are when a role or identity shifts, and how we stay connected to ourselves while still embracing what we are becoming.

Perfection became a big part of our conversation too, as Cathryn talked about giving herself more grace when she gets things wrong and teaching her boys that mistakes are normal: “the most interesting stories in our lives… are usually shaped around our mistakes.”

That feels particularly relevant when careers, technology, education and work are changing so quickly. None of us has perfected what comes next. Being willing to experiment, learn and reshape may be far more useful than waiting until we know exactly what we’re doing.

I also enjoyed hearing the analogy Cathryn shared about knowing which balls we are juggling are glass and which are plastic, some need protecting, others can drop and bounce. Then, when creativity disappears, sometimes the answer is not to push harder, instead to step away, get outside and give our minds space to reset.

THE SHAPE SHIFT IN MOTION

Experimentation isn’t simply a business tool. It can change how we move through uncertainty, creativity and change.

LEARN (LETTING GO)

✨ Let go of the pressure to perfect something before allowing it to exist.

✨ Release the belief that everything we are carrying has equal importance.

✨ Give ourselves grace when life, work or motherhood refuses to follow the plan.

UNLEARN (CREATE, REIMAGINE & RESHAPE)

✨ Reimagine mistakes as information rather than evidence that we failed.

✨ Create space for creativity beyond the roles and identities we carry.

✨ Question linear ideas of career, progress and what we should have figured out.

RELEARN (TEST & IMPLEMENT)

✨ Test small before committing big.

✨ Build, observe, learn and reshape what comes next.

✨ Protect the glass balls and allow some of the plastic ones to bounce.

ACTIVE RECOVERY (REFLECT & RESET)

✨ What are you trying to perfect that could simply be tested?

✨ Which ball could safely be allowed to drop?

✨ Where could stepping away help you see differently?

🔗 https://www.linkedin.com/in/cathrynmclauchlan

🌐 https://vizall.com.au

💭 What could you learn if you stopped waiting to get it right?

Ready for your next shape shift? Book a Strategic Shape Shift Diagnostic.

🔗 https://calendly.com/beeformless/strategicshapeshiftdiagnostic

#beeformless #flowdrivenceo #experimentation #creativity #innovation #motherhood #workingmums #lifeleadershipbusiness #grace #storytelling #flowstate

In this episode of the Bee Formless™ Flow Driven CEO Podcast, I connected with Rhiannon Simcocks, CEO of James Home Services Australia, whose first taste of business transformation came at 19. Halfway through a business degree, she stepped into a struggling hospitality business and helped turn it profitable within three months.

Years later, Rhiannon was brought in to assess James Home Services and her recommendation was clear: don’t buy it. The business needed transformation. Today, she is the CEO leading it.

I loved where our conversation went from there, because Rhiannon is challenging what franchising, entrepreneurship and even the word “franchisee” can mean. She is trying to remove it from her own language: “They are business owners.” Her focus is less on leveraging a brand and more on helping everyday people build something of their own with the systems, skills and support around them.

And she is equally clear that support doesn’t remove personal responsibility. “There ain’t nobody coming to save you.” James Home Services receives hundreds of enquiries each month and starts only a handful, looking for people with financial readiness, ownership and something meaningful they are running towards, not simply something they are escaping.

Rhiannon described business as “a series of systems and processes repeated to get an outcome over time.” We explored why those foundations matter, how more women could recognise the transferable skills they already have, and why a simple service business can become a stepping stone into something much bigger.

When I asked what CEOs should focus on amid all the noise and complexity, Rhiannon brought it back to something refreshingly simple: double down on what works, protect the culture, keep good people and focus on what actually drives the business.

THE SHAPE SHIFT IN MOTION

This conversation reshapes entrepreneurship from something we have to endure alone into something that can be supported, structured and built alongside others.

LEARN (LETTING GO)

✨ Let go of the belief that asking for support makes you less entrepreneurial.

✨ Release outdated assumptions about what franchising represents.

✨ Stop mistaking more activity, tools and complexity for progress.

UNLEARN (CREATE, REIMAGINE & RESHAPE)

✨ Reimagine franchising as supported business ownership.

✨ Create models that build capability, confidence and independence.

✨ Open more pathways for women and first-time founders to step into business ownership.

RELEARN (TEST & IMPLEMENT)

✨ Build repeatable systems before trying to scale.

✨ Double down on what drives revenue, strengthens culture and supports people.

✨ Know what you are running towards, not only what you are trying to escape.

ACTIVE RECOVERY (REFLECT & RESET)

✨ What is already working that deserves more of your attention?

✨ Where are you making business harder than it needs to be?

✨ What support would help you move forward without carrying everything alone?

🔗 https://www.linkedin.com/in/rhiannon-simcocks-7051a3120/

🌐 https://jameshomeservices.com.au/

💭 What could change if you didn’t have to build alone?

Ready for your next shape shift? Book a Strategic Shape Shift Diagnostic.

🔗 https://calendly.com/beeformless/strategicshapeshiftdiagnostic

#beeformless #flowdrivenceo #jameshomeservices #systems

In this episode of the Bee Formless™ Flow Driven CEO Podcast, I connected with Evan Szu, Founder and CEO of Gamma Prime, for a conversation about what happens when the financial systems we have always relied on begin to loosen their grip.

Evan has spent more than three decades across AI, trading, entrepreneurship and financial markets, so I was intrigued by the way he framed decentralisation: not simply as a crypto story, but as a shift in who holds the keys. His comparison to the early internet made it tangible. What once felt technical and inaccessible can eventually disappear beneath everyday life until we barely notice the infrastructure at all.

Evan challenged the idea that owning different stocks necessarily makes us diversified, pointing to areas such as private credit, reinsurance and litigation finance that can behave very differently when public markets move together.

We also explored AI as an amplifier. Evan’s view was to run towards it, learn what it changes and use it to expand what we are capable of creating. Yet the more digital everything becomes, the more he believes trust, storytelling, relationships and real-world connection matter.

I loved our conversation around the next generation of entrepreneurs too. Evan mentors younger founders and believes one of the smartest ways to prepare for entrepreneurship is to learn inside someone else’s early-stage business first: watch what breaks, see how decisions are made and build judgement before opening your own Pandora’s box.

THE SHAPE SHIFT IN MOTION

At the heart of this conversation was a shift in how we think about ownership, capital and what becomes possible when technology opens up different ways to learn, invest and build.

LEARN (LETTING GO)

✨ Let go of the belief that diversification simply means owning different stocks.

✨ Separate blockchain infrastructure from the speculation often associated with it.

✨ Release the instinct to retreat from technology simply because it feels unfamiliar.

UNLEARN (CREATE, REIMAGINE & RESHAPE)

✨ Reimagine how capital could move with fewer traditional intermediaries.

✨ Explore what greater financial ownership and decentralisation could make possible.

✨ Consider how AI could expand what the next generation of entrepreneurs can learn and create.

RELEARN (TEST & IMPLEMENT)

✨ Learn new financial models before feeling pressure to participate in them.

✨ Build entrepreneurial judgement through proximity, mentorship and real-world experience.

✨ Use technology alongside human trust, relationships and storytelling.

ACTIVE RECOVERY (REFLECT & RESET)

✨ Where are you holding onto a familiar system because it feels safer?

✨ What could you explore without needing to immediately act on it?

✨ Are you creating enough space to understand change before deciding what it means for you?

🔗 https://www.linkedin.com/in/evanszu/

🔗 https://www.linkedin.com/company/gamma-prime-com/

💭 What would ownership of your financial future look like?

Book a Strategic Shape Shift Diagnostic to illuminate what needs to shift across leadership, business and brand, from the inside out.

🔗 https://calendly.com/beeformless/strategicshapeshiftdiagnostic

#beeformless #flowdrivenceo #gammaprime #decentralisation #blockchain #investing #nextgeneration

In this episode of the Bee Formless™ Flow Driven CEO Podcast, I connected with Micki Persky, CEO of Talent.Realised, at a strange moment for work: talented people are sitting in the market while others are staying in jobs they are ready to leave because moving feels too risky.

Micki calls part of this “The Great Stay”, and it made me think about what happens inside businesses when people stay through fear rather than genuine engagement. What happens to energy, creativity and innovation when someone has one foot out the door, yet feels safer remaining exactly where they are?

After almost 19 years running Talent.Realised, Micki has navigated the GFC, COVID and enormous shifts in recruitment, yet she believes this period is harder. I was particularly interested in her concern around AI: if we keep removing the junior work technology can now perform, where do tomorrow’s experienced leaders come from? We become senior through experience, and that experience has to begin somewhere.

At the other end of the workforce, Micki is seeing ageism affecting experienced people who may have mortgages, families and years of capability behind them, yet can be dismissed through assumptions about adaptability or technology. We also explored the rise of fractional work and why more fluid teams may become part of what emerges next.

Through all of this change, Micki said matching skills is the science; understanding the human being, the business and what both could become is the art.

And for anyone looking for work right now, her advice was reconnect with people, use your network, have a point of view and build your personal brand. Because as Micki put it, “humans will always help humans first.”

THE SHAPE SHIFT IN MOTION

As work becomes more fluid, our human relationships may become even more important to how careers and businesses evolve.

LEARN (LETTING GO)

✨ Staying in a role does not necessarily mean someone is engaged.

✨ Removing junior work can also remove experiences future leaders need.

✨ Recruitment is as much about understanding people as matching skills.

UNLEARN (CREATE, REIMAGINE & RESHAPE)

✨ Stop assuming AI automatically removes the need for human capability.

✨ Challenge age-based assumptions about adaptability and technology.

✨ Move beyond rigid organisational structures as work itself changes.

RELEARN (TEST & IMPLEMENT)

✨ Explore more fluid combinations of permanent and fractional talent.

✨ Build relationships before you need something from them.

✨ Develop a visible point of view and personal brand, not simply a CV.

ACTIVE RECOVERY (REFLECT & RESET)

✨ Are you staying somewhere because it is right, or because leaving feels risky?

✨ What capabilities could disappear if we remove the pathways people once used to learn them?

✨ Who in your network could you reconnect with today?

🔗 https://www.linkedin.com/in/micki-persky-%F0%9F%8C%9F-8748b412/

🌐 https://talentrealised.com.au

💭 As AI reshapes work, what human capabilities do we need to protect rather than automate away?

Book a Strategic Shape Shift Diagnostic to illuminate what needs to shift across leadership, business and brand, from the inside out.

🔗 https://calendly.com/beeformless/strategicshapeshiftdiagnostic

#beeformless #flowdrivenceo #talentrealised #thegreatstay #futureofwork #recruitment #connection

In this episode of the Bee Formless™ Flow Driven CEO Podcast, I connected with Kartik Swaminathan, Founder of Demether, to explore a question sitting underneath the future of investing: why should everyday people have less access to the tools, information and opportunities available to sophisticated institutions?

Kartik saw that divide first-hand during his investment banking career. Later, his experience with blockchain led him to question whether a different financial infrastructure could give ordinary investors greater transparency, control and access without requiring them to become experts in everything happening underneath it.

What fascinated me is that Kartik isn’t talking about replacing familiar investments with speculative digital assets. His vision is almost the opposite: bringing assets such as shares into new infrastructure where technology can potentially make them work harder while removing some of the complexity that has historically kept sophisticated strategies out of reach.

We discussed why trust and education matter when financial systems change, and why the technology itself may ultimately need to become almost invisible. If people have to understand every layer of blockchain before they can participate, the system hasn’t really become simpler.

Long-term thinking became one of my favourite threads. Kartik’s perspective is simple: “You can plan, but you can’t predict.” Rather than constantly reacting to markets, he believes wealth is built by creating a long-term plan, understanding the risk and staying the course.

We also got into Gen Z, a generation Kartik sees as financially aware much earlier and likely to expect greater transparency, access and control over how their money works.

THE SHAPE SHIFT IN MOTION

At the heart of this conversation was a shift from sophisticated investing being reserved for institutions towards making long-term wealth creation more accessible.

LEARN (LETTING GO)
✨ The financial systems we inherited are not the only systems available to us.
✨ Short-term market movement does not have to dictate a long-term investment plan.
✨ Complexity can become a barrier to participation.

UNLEARN (CREATE, REIMAGINE & RESHAPE)
✨ Question why everyday investors should have less access than institutions.
✨ Separate blockchain infrastructure from the speculation often associated with digital assets.
✨ Stop confusing constant reaction with smart investing.

RELEARN (TEST & IMPLEMENT)
✨ Plan for the future without pretending you can predict it.
✨ Understand the risk before chasing the return.
✨ Use technology to simplify decision-making rather than create more noise.

ACTIVE RECOVERY (REFLECT & RESET)
✨ Are you investing for the next headline or for the life you want years from now?
✨ Where is complexity stopping you from understanding your own financial choices?
✨ What changes when we think about wealth across decades rather than days?

🔗 https://linkedin.com/in/kartik-swaminathan
🌐 https://www.demether.io

💭 What could change if financial tools became easier for everyday investors to understand and access?

Book a Strategic Shape Shift Diagnostic to illuminate what needs to shift across leadership, business and brand, from the inside out.
🔗 https://calendly.com/beeformless/strategicshapeshiftdiagnostic

#beeformless #flowdrivenceo #demether #fintech #investing #blockchain #wealthcreation #future

In this episode of the Bee Formless™ Flow Driven CEO Podcast, I reconnected with Linda Fisk, President of CurvUp and Chairwoman of LeadHERship Global, to explore something that becomes increasingly difficult as we move through business and leadership: admitting we don’t have to figure everything out alone.

Linda believes leaders cannot reach their potential in isolation. Yet the more senior we become, the harder it can feel to share uncertainty or what we simply don’t know. I loved her perspective that openness and transparency can actually deepen respect, understanding and connection.

This led us into Linda’s idea of creating a “power tribe”: trusted relationships where we can drop the mask, challenge our thinking and be supported as we evolve. We explored cultural competence too, and becoming curious about people across different generations, backgrounds, beliefs and worldviews.

Confidence became another fascinating thread, particularly for women. Linda sees it as something we continually build, especially when adversity knocks us. We talked about bouncing forward rather than simply bouncing back, allowing difficult experiences to reshape us without defining what we believe we are capable of.

Through CurvUp, we discussed the interconnection of technology and entrepreneurship while keeping the human firmly at the centre: lived experience, judgement, relationships and our own definition of success still matter.

We finished with contribution and gratitude. Linda has observed that some of the happiest and most successful people she has known found a way to contribute value to the world while aligning it with what genuinely mattered to them.

THE SHAPE SHIFT IN MOTION

This conversation asks us to rethink strength as something we build through confidence, connection and the willingness to keep evolving alongside others.

LEARN (LETTING GO)

✨ We do not have to reach our potential in isolation.

✨ Confidence grows through action, adversity and our willingness to try again.

✨ Meaningful relationships can challenge our thinking as much as they support us.

UNLEARN (CREATE, REIMAGINE & RESHAPE)

✨ Drop the belief that vulnerability diminishes credibility.

✨ Challenge assumptions about people whose worldview differs from our own.

✨ Stop measuring success against someone else’s life.

RELEARN (TEST & IMPLEMENT)

✨ Build a trusted power tribe rather than simply a bigger network.

✨ Become objectively curious before judging someone’s perspective.

✨ Align what you love with the value you can contribute to the world.

ACTIVE RECOVERY (REFLECT & RESET)

✨ Who can you be completely honest with about what you are navigating?

✨ Where are you underestimating your own capability?

✨ What already exists in your life that deserves more gratitude?

🔗 https://www.linkedin.com/in/lindafisk/

🔗 https://www.curvup.io/en

🔗 leadhershipglobal.com

💭 Who is in your power tribe?

Book a Strategic Shape Shift Diagnostic to illuminate what needs to shift across leadership, business and brand, from the inside out.

🔗 https://calendly.com/beeformless/strategicshapeshiftdiagnostic

#beeformless #flowdrivenceo #leadhershipglobal #curvup #confidence #connection #womeninbusiness #insideouttransformation #power #gratitude

In this episode of the Bee Formless™ Flow Driven CEO Podcast, I connected with Cary Smith, CEO and Co-Founder of Done Desk, for a conversation that kept circling back to a question I think more founders need to ask: is the business you are building actually giving you the life you wanted when you started it?

Cary works with hundreds of dental practices and sees the same pattern repeatedly. Founders begin with the promise of ownership, then somewhere along the way the business starts owning them. Work follows them home, unfinished tasks stay open in their heads and the technology meant to make things easier can create even more noise.

I loved Cary’s language around “done” and “undone.” When people know what done actually looks like, there is clarity. When they don’t, that ambiguity travels home with them and becomes cognitive load. His view is that businesses don’t need more software simply for the sake of automation; they need systems that help people understand what success looks like and what still needs attention.

We also explored why elite sports teams don’t compete every day, while business owners often do, with little space to recover or reset. Cary believes a business should be designed to give something back: time, health, relationships, freedom and a life beyond work.

Most founders, Cary believes, do not really understand themselves or the business until several years in. The market teaches you. Customers teach you. Your people teach you. The question is whether you remain open enough to keep evolving with what you learn.

Cary put it simply: “Live for yourself.” A business will take everything you are willing to give it, so if you are going to give it that much, it should be designed to give something meaningful back.

THE SHAPE SHIFT IN MOTION

At the heart of this conversation was a shift from building a business that constantly demands more to designing one that creates clarity, capacity and a life worth living.

LEARN (LETTING GO)

✨ More software does not automatically create a better business.

✨ Constant competition without recovery eventually creates strain.

✨ A business without clarity creates cognitive load for everyone inside it.

UNLEARN (CREATE, REIMAGINE & RESHAPE)

✨ Define what “done” actually looks like.

✨ Stop assuming growth means adding more complexity.

✨ Design the business around the life you want, not simply the work you can tolerate.

RELEARN (TEST & IMPLEMENT)

✨ Give people visibility, accountability and the support to succeed.

✨ Let customers and employees teach you how the business needs to evolve.

✨ Build recovery, reflection and recalibration into the way you operate.

ACTIVE RECOVERY (REFLECT & RESET)

✨ Is your business serving your life, or consuming it?

✨ What unfinished work are you carrying home every day?

✨ What would you redesign if freedom were part of the business model?

🔗 https://www.linkedin.com/in/carysmith1

🌐 https://donedesk.com

💭 What would change if the business you built was designed to give something back to you?

Book a Strategic Shape Shift Diagnostic to illuminate what needs to shift across leadership, business and brand, from the inside out.

🔗 https://calendly.com/beeformless/strategicshapeshiftdiagnostic

#beeformless #flowdrivenceo #donedesk #businessdesign #entrepreneurship #humansystems #insideouttransformation