What if your church's struggles aren't really about what they appear to be? In this thought-provoking second installment with Dr. Dave Miles Founder of Vital Church, we dive deep into the hidden emotional dynamics shaping church health and decline.

The conversation reveals a startling truth: beneath the surface of most church conflicts lie unaddressed emotional processes and unexamined patterns that Family Systems Theory helps uncover. "What looks like the problem is never the problem, ever," Dave shares, explaining how many church interventions fail because they never address root causes. When leaders bring unprocessed baggage from their families of origin into church leadership, reactive patterns emerge that resist true transformation.

The statistics are sobering—15,000 churches expected to close this year alone (that's 50 churches daily), another 15,000 unable to afford full-time pastors, and 25% of all American pastors retiring by 2030. But numbers tell only part of the story. The real crisis is one of identity and purpose, as churches have "lost the plot" of what it means to be Christ's body in the world. Drawing from Matthew 16, we explore how the church exists not for itself but as a blessing to all nations—a mission often obscured by institutional thinking.

Perhaps most poignant is our exploration of what people truly seek in church communities: love, acceptance, and belonging. Yet tragically, many find more genuine welcome in secular spaces than in congregations claiming to represent Christ's unconditional love. When churches misunderstand God's grace, they often extend the same conditional acceptance they believe God offers them—directly contradicting the gospel message. Join us for this challenging conversation about becoming non-anxious presences who can help churches rediscover their true calling.

Listen to the first part of our conversation with Dave

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