Before You Quit

When I heard the news of Steve Lawson’s sexual sin, I threw up my hands and said, “I give up! Is there anyone we can look up to anymore? Who is next?” If you need to find out who Steve Lawson is, he was right up there with giants like RC Sproul and John MacArthur. Lawson was a board member and teaching fellow of R. C. Sproul’s Ligonier Ministries. Lawson also served as the dean of the Doctor of Ministry program at The Master’s Seminary, founded by John MacArthur.

Dan and I discuss what happened, how it could happen, and, more importantly, what lessons we can learn from it. One of our takeaways is how much more we should look up to our small-town local pastor than to famous pastors who we don’t know well and do not know us.

We want to remind you that if you are looking for ways to direct your end-of-the-year giving, Fruitful Vine Ministry needs your help. You can go to our support page here and follow the directions.

For helpful resources on the Steve Lawson story, check out these resources.

https://truthscript.com/church/the-fall-of-a-leader-lessons-from-steve-lawsons-removal/

https://banneroftruth.org/us/resources/announcements/2024/when-a-christian-leader-falls/?srsltid=AfmBOorfFqnoeZ6Iw-nElkQp00WrUGQXN_kqCdr8xU-Br-BfYczO4mnd

https://www.equip.org/articles/a-christians-response-to-pastor-lawsons-moral-failure/

https://pastoral-theology.com/2021/02/22/a-response-to-the-fall-of-ravi-zacharias/ 

The post PODCAST 142: The Story of Steve Lawson (Dan and Mitch) appeared first on Before You Quit.

The nation of India has over 1.4 billion people. There are 2,289–2,554 groups that are considered unreached, meaning that less than 2% of the people in those groups follow Jesus. In this podcast, I interview Dan (last name withheld) to discuss his ministry of training pastors in India. Dan and the ministry he serves travel to India regularly and holds online training sessions for thousands of pastors across India. Many of these pastors have no biblical education. It’s a vital ministry. Dan and I also talk about how the church can see itself as missionally involved in the world without having to go. Training and equipping are becoming a large part of our missional commitment. 

As part of my prayer discipline, I pray each morning for the persecuted church across the globe. India is one of those nations where the freedom to worship Jesus is severely limited. According to Voices of the Martyr, “Christians in India are facing increased opposition from Hindu nationalists who seek to eradicate their witness for Christ and establish a “pure” Hindu nation. Despite beatings, arrests and even the murder of loved ones, persecuted Christians in India continue to faithfully advance God’s Kingdom.” Despite the persecution, the church is rapidly growing in India thanks to pastors like Dan and his ministry.

The post Podcast Ep.141 The Church in India (Daniel) appeared first on Before You Quit.

Many of us get stuck when we see contradictions in the Bible. Pastor John Fogal argues that exceptions in the Bible are never contradictions. This podcast interview will open a window to worship an amazing God who made the greatest exception ever when he extended to us redemption. John W. Fogal lives in Ft. Wayne, IN. He pastored for twenty years and served as a district superintendent with the Christian and Missionary Alliance for 18 years. He has also served as a coach for pastors and churches. John is also the author of Living The Beatitudes.

EXCEPTIONS and CONTRADICTIONS

The God who is revealed in Scripture is so great that He can make exceptions but never so small that He is guilty of contradictions. He can make exceptions without contradicting the foundational truths. We need spiritual discernment to know the difference. We need faith to see that God is always all His Word claims Him to be. And we need strong discipline to never turn one of God’s exceptions into an official human policy that ultimately contradicts and invalidates God’s foundational rule. He is God. We are not. The more I see of God’s exceptions the more I see the greatness of His sovereign authority and the grandeur of His radiant glory.

God  made it clear from the start that when a human being sins, he/she will die. Read the genealogies in Genesis 5 and you will see the number of years that each man lived, “and he died.” Except for verse 24 which reads, “And Enoch walked with God; and was not, for God took him.” Before the 10 commandments were given to Moses everyone (including Cain) instinctively knew that it was wrong to kill another human being. Yet God told Abraham to sacrifice his son Isaac on the alter. When Abraham passed the test, God provided a ram, so Isaac did not die prematurely. (However, when it came time for God the Father to sacrifice His only begotten Son, “He spared not His own Son but freely gave Him up for us all.”) God told Hosea to marry a harlot (an exception) to teach him and Israel and us about His love for all of us who are “harlots” in His sight.

True miracles are, by definition, exceptions that do not conform to the general rule. They transcend the general laws of nature and accomplish exceptional and unusual and rare events. The iron ax head floated on the water. The sun stood still. The bush burned but was not consumed. The Red Sea parted. Jonah was swallowed by a great fish. The three Hebrew children miraculously came out of the fiery furnace. God shut the lions’ mouths. Extraordinary miracles happened throughout the Old and New Testaments. The Virgin birth of Jesus was a miracle. So was His resurrection. None of these exceptions negated the overriding, foundational laws of God. We must remember that God’s ways and thoughts are higher and better than ours and are beyond our finding out (Isaiah 55:8-9). 

From our human perspective, the best of God’s “exceptions” is our great salvation. Every human being is “already condemned” and deserves the wrath of God. In His loving sovereign will He chooses us. The Bible calls it “election.” He draws us to His Son; brings us to a place of godly sorrow that leads to repentance; declares us to be justified in His sight; forgives and cleanses us when we confess our sins; makes us new creatures in Christ; calls us to be His children; and Christ is coming soon to take us to be with Him! That makes the “few” exceptional! PRAISE THE LORD! Universalists want to make this exception into a rule and conclude that, in the end, everyone will be saved and go to heaven. That is not what the Bible teaches. “But when He saved my soul, cleansed and made me whole, it took a miracle of love and grace.”

THREE APPLICATIONS

God’s Word makes it clear that He instituted marriage and unites a man and a woman in “one flesh” and that union is to last “until death us do part.” When the Pharisees asked Jesus about divorce He said, “a man shall leave father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh. So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.” They said to him, “Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce?” He said to them, “Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.” (Matthew 19:4-8) He then gave clear teaching for the restrictions on the exception called divorce. Add to the large number of marriages that end in divorce all the people who co-habit without being married and it almost seems like the exception has become the rule and the rule has become the exception.. 

What we call a “miscarriage” is one of God’s exceptions. There may even be times when a husband and wife and doctor need to prayerfully decide (with godly, biblical counsel) to end the pregnancy as the only way to save the mother’s life. But that is not the motivation for more than 99% of the millions of abortions. When the sperm and egg are fertilized, a new life, with its own special, individual, unique DNA is formed, and God knits that new body together in the mother’s womb (Psalm 139:13-16 NLT) until the baby is born and the umbilical cord is cut. We are “fearfully and wonderfully made” “in the image of God.” God gives the mother the supreme privilege of providing life for that new life throughout the gestation period, but that new life is distinct from the mother’s body. Abortion is clearly the terminating of the work of God. Shouldn’t we think twice before committing such a crime?

God made us “male and female.” He made us equal but different because He has designed different functions for us to fill. When it comes to the leadership roles in the home and church, it seems to me that God gave us a foundational principle in 1 Corinthians 11:2, “I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.” There are further details found in verses such as Ephesian 5:22-33, 1 Timothy 2:9-15, and I Corinthians 14:33-35. We need to think foundationally, based on God’s Word, not man’s word. So what about the story of Deborah as a judge in the book of Judges (and all the other places where you may think there are exceptions to the rule.) Remember, they are exceptions, not the rule. Think about all the rest of the judges, and priests, and kings, and prophets, and apostles, and elders, and pastors, and bishops. I believe there can still be exceptions today. But we must know that it is God’s exception and not a man-made human policy. We cannot blur these gender distinctive in leadership without “unintended consequences” such as ultimately negating God’s foundational law, causing confusion, and displeasing and offending the God who created us male and female. He is God. We are not.

The post Podcast 140: Contradictions in the Bible (John Fogal) appeared first on Before You Quit.

In the five previous podcasts we reviewed Dr. Rob Reimer’s Soul Care Ministry and teachings. It is appropriate that we follow those up with a discussion of spiritual abuse in the church. I had the honor of interviewing Dawn Hill for this podcast on this subject.

Dawn Hill is a Christian blogger known as The Lovesick Scribe, and the host of The Lovesick Scribe Podcast. She is passionate about sharing the truth and pointing others back to Jesus Christ through the written Word as the standard of authority for Christian living and instruction while being led by the Holy Spirit into maturity. She is the author of NonProphet Woke: The Reformation of a Modern-Day Disciple. She writes articles for Christianity.com, Servants of Grace, and her blog posts have been shared by individuals such as Tim Challies. She will be featured in the upcoming docuseries, American Gospel: Spirit and Fire. She co-leads a women’s support group with Emily Massey called Snatched from the Flames, where they minister to women who have come out of the hypercharismatic and New Apostolic Reformation movement. She is a wife to Nicholas and a mother to Anabel and Ephraim. You can follow her on The Lovesick Scribe and Instagram.

The post Podcast 139: Spiritual Abuse in the Church (Dawn Hill) appeared first on Before You Quit.

In this final podcast reviewing Dr. Rob Reimer’s Soul Care Ministry, Rev. Mark Barnard of Blessing Point Ministry joins the conversation with Dan Stegeman and me. We discuss Dr. Reimer’s teachings that Christians can be indwelt by demons and we offer a biblical response.

To listen to the first podcast on Soul Care, click here. To listen to the second podcast on Soul Care, click here. To listen to the third podcast on Soul Care, click here. 
For a full written review I wrote on Dr. Reimer’s Soul Care teaching, click here.
For Mark Barnard’s paper on Reimer’s teaching on demon occupation, click here.
For Testimonies from those who left Soul Care teaching, click here. 

For Jonathan and Brooke Gangi’s testimony of attending a Soul Care conference click here. 

The post Podcast 138: Christians and Demons (Dr. Rob Reimer’s Soul Care Ministry) appeared first on Before You Quit.

For the past few weeks, we have been doing an in depth critique of Rob Reimer’s Soul Care ministry. We have attempted to show why this ministry is unbiblical and even dangerous.  In this podcast, we want to continue our review with a first hand account of an individual who attended a Soul Care Conference and had a traumatic experience. In this powerful testimony, Dan interviews Brooke and Jonathan Gangi.

Jonathan and Brooke Gangi have been married for 17 years and are proud parents of four girls. Jonathan is a professor at Penn State University and Brooke is a homemaker and homeschooling mom. They are members of Oakwood Presbyterian Church (PCA) in State College, PA

To listen to the first podcast on Soul Care, click here. To listen to the second podcast on Soul Care, click here. To listen to the third podcast on Soul Care, click here.
For a full written review I wrote on Dr. Reimer’s Soul Care teaching, click here.
For Mark Barnard’s paper on Reimer’s teaching on demon occupation, click here.
For Testimonies from those who left Soul Care teaching, click here. 

The post Podcast 137: Attending a Soul Care Conference (The story of Brooke and Jonathan Gangi) appeared first on Before You Quit.

Dan and I continued our conversation reviewing Dr. Rob Reimer’s Soul Care Ministry, today discussing his chapter on Inner Wounds. How does healing really happen? You’re deeply affected by childhood trauma, or abused as a child. This has left you struggling through life, often unable to trust others. Relationships are hard, and marriages affected.You find yourself anxious and lacking confidence. Where do you turn? Do you take a journey, by the guidance of an experienced healer, into your inner self, or does the Holy Spirit take you back to the finished work at the cross of Jesus? What difference does sound theology have on our understanding of faith, and how to overcome, or just endure, the hard stuff we face in life? Let’s find out! 

We hope to receive feedback and even welcome critical responses. You can email me with questions or comments at [email protected], or comment in the comment section below this page. 

To listen to the first podcast, click here.

For a full written review I wrote on Dr. Reimer’s Soul Care teaching, click here.

For Mark Barnard’s paper on Reimer’s teaching on demon occupation, click here.

For Testimonies from those who left Soul Care teaching, click here. 

The post Podcast 136: Dr. Rob Reimer, Soul Care Part 3 (Healing Wounds) appeared first on Before You Quit.

Most of us are unfamiliar with the Church of Christ. There is one in our town, and from all appearance it looks like any other ordinary church. When you dig into their beliefs,  however, there are serious concerns. For a thorough review of the Church of Christ, read this article from Got Questions here. My interest in this podcast is not at all to attack the church of Christ, but to hear Pastor Gary Phillips story of pastoring a Church of Christ church and what caused him to leave.

Toccoa Christian Church minister, Gary Phillips, has been involved in Biblical ministry for over 18 years. Gary, along with wife Sandi, has served the Lord in many capacities. Married for 19 years, Gary and Sandi are loved by and cherish 5 adult children and 12 grandchildren. A well-rounded individual and lover of learning, Gary Phillips is not only well-read and educated in Biblical Scripture, but in professional studies as well. Earning 3 degrees, Gary has obtained much knowledge and real-life experience to not only teach, but to lead his congregation in a real and relevant way. (Gary has earned a Bachelor of Science degree in both Mechanical Engineering and Theology. He has also earned a Master of Divinity Degree in Counseling). Once an atheist, Gary became a follower of Christ with a strong desire to learn Scripture. Gary studied apologetics at Theology School, diligently studying the existence of God and the inspiration of Scripture. In addition to preaching over 3,000 sermons, Gary has also taught (as well as written curriculum for) many marriage classes, divorce groups, groups of parents of children, and others developed with the help of his Counseling degree. Gary explains his teaching philosophy: “90% of the sermons I preach are expository; directly from the inspired text. My illustrations, applications, videos are applicable and are up to date. I believe that if they are not, the Word of God will not be understood as relevant to our youth, our families, and it certainly will not seem relevant to our community.”

The post Podcast 135: Leaving the Church of Christ (Pastor Gary Phillips) appeared first on Before You Quit.

My cohost, Dan Stegeman and I continue our review of Soul Care Ministry by Dr. Rob Reimer. This podcast comes out of the desire to be discerning. We are instructed in scripture to test everything being taught and compare it to scripture. The apostle John writes, “Do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world” (1 John 4:1).

Soul Care is a ministry led by Dr. Rob Reimer which is hugely popular. We have deep concerns over the theology and practice of Soul Care and desire to review it with an open Bible. We are also concerned by the number of people who have been negatively impacted by Soul Care. We do this podcast because we care about the church and believe strongly in the authority of the scriptures to govern life and ministry. We are not attacking an individual, but questioning this individual’s teachings about what experiencing freedom and healing really looks like. 

We hope to receive feedback and even welcome critical responses. You can email me with questions or comments at [email protected], or comment in the comment section below this page. 

To listen to the first podcast, click here.

For a full written review I wrote on Dr. Reimer’s Soul Care teaching, click here.

For Mark Barnard’s paper on Reimer’s teaching on demon occupation, click here.

For Testimonies from those who left Soul Care teaching, click here. 

The post Podcast 134: A Review of Dr. Rob Reimer’s Soul Care Teaching (Part Two) appeared first on Before You Quit.

Soul Care is a ministry led by Dr. Rob Reimer which is hugely popular. We have deep concerns over the theology and practice of Soul Care and desire to review it with an open Bible. We are also concerned by the number of people who have been negatively impacted by Soul Care. We do this podcast because we care about the church and believe strongly in the authority of the scriptures to govern life and ministry. We are not attacking an individual, but questioning this individual’s teachings about what experiencing freedom and healing really looks like. 

We hope to receive feedback and even welcome critical responses. You can email me with questions or comments at [email protected], or comment in the comment section below this page. 

The post Podcast 133: A Review of Dr. Rob Reimer’s Soul Care Ministry appeared first on Before You Quit.