Entertainment law is not quite as glitzy or glamorous as you may have heard. That’s especially the case for music industry lawyers who work with up and coming hip hop artists.

On our weekly legal news podcast, On The Merits, we learn what it’s really like behind the music from lawyers Desiree Talley, Gerard Anthony, Karl Fowlkes, and Tiffany Ballard. They say attorneys who represent artists must be hawk-like in guarding their clients’ intellectual property rights.

The attorneys talk about fending off predatory executives and educating their own clients’ on the legal issues they face. They also explain how racial issues are never far from their minds, especially given the music industry’s legacy of mistreating black artists.