What if the secret to building a breakthrough CPG brand wasn't inventing something entirely new, but reimagining something familiar?

In this episode of Behind the Shelf, Keren Novack speaks with Sean Knecht, cofounder of Tantos, and President of PrideBites LLC,  about transforming a chef's accidental discovery into the world's first pasta chip. Sean shares how early sellout launches validated demand, why combining familiarity with novelty lowers the barrier to consumer trial, and how thoughtful branding can make all the difference in a crowded snack aisle. 

He also explains why great taste must come before health messaging, how retailers evaluate emerging brands, and why proving shelf velocity is essential to earning long-term retail placement. Beyond the product itself, Sean offers an honest look at the operational realities of building a CPG company, from inventory forecasting and production planning to managing expiration dates and fulfillment. 

What you will learn:

• How to validate product-market fit before betting the business
• Why "familiar plus novel" is the most powerful positioning in a crowded snack aisle
• The underrated role of strategic naming in shelf-stopping branding
• How to prioritize product quality over health claims in emerging food categories
• Why retail buyers cling to established giants and how to break through their risk aversion
• The hidden operational complexity behind one bag of chips

Sean Knecht is the co-founder of Tantos, the first and only pasta chip brand, transforming a casual dinner innovation into a scaled CPG business available in 1,500+ U.S. retail locations. With a background in product validation and entrepreneurship, Sean has built two revenue-generating companies while mastering the intersection of consumer psychology, operational efficiency, and retail dynamics.

Episode Resources:

• Sean Knecht on LinkedIn
• Tantos Website
• Keren Novack on LinkedIn
• Curion Insights Website
• Curion Webinars and Podcasts  
• Behind the Shelf on Apple Podcasts
• Behind the Shelf on Spotify
• Behind the Shelf on YouTube

Episode Highlights:

• [05:33] Test Demand with Limited Product Drops
  
  

Rather than relying on surveys or focus groups, Sean validated demand by releasing three small batches of 500 units that sold out in just 13, 8, and 7 minutes. More importantly, customers kept coming back. Those repeat purchases proved the product had staying power beyond initial curiosity. Sean explains why small, controlled launches can reveal genuine product-market fit while providing better insights than expensive traditional market research.

• [08:44] Great Taste Must Come Before Health Claims
  
  

Sean believes every food brand should solve one problem before anything else: make the product taste exceptional. Health benefits, clean ingredients, and nutrition matter, but they won't drive repeat purchases if consumers don't enjoy eating the product. Working with a Michelin-trained chef ensured Tantos delivered on flavor first, with healthier attributes refined later. For Sean, taste is the foundation of lasting customer loyalty.

• [09:26] Build on Familiarity to Reduce Buyer Risk
  
  

Instead of positioning Tantos as a replacement for chips like Doritos or Fritos, Sean introduced it as a new option that complements existing favorites. That simple shift reduced resistance from both retailers and consumers. Because pasta is already universally recognised and loved, the product felt familiar despite being innovative. Sean explains why expanding an established category is often easier than convincing people to embrace something entirely new.

• [00:12:39] Create a Brand Name That Wins in Seconds
  
  

Sean reveals that the name "Tantos" was carefully designed to stand out while feeling instantly familiar. Inspired by iconic snack brands ending in "-os," the name also reflects the company's Italian roots. Since shoppers often make purchasing decisions in just a few seconds, every branding element must quickly communicate confidence and credibility. Sean explains why thoughtful naming can become a powerful competitive advantage on crowded retail shelves.

• [00:17:38] Shelf Velocity Is the Metric That Really Matters
  
  

For Sean, success isn't measured by social media buzz or impressive launch-day sales. The real indicator is how quickly products move off retail shelves and whether retailers continue placing repeat orders. By closely monitoring sales velocity across more than 1,500 stores, Tantos can distinguish genuine consumer adoption from short-lived curiosity. Sean explains why repeat purchases provide the clearest signal that a brand is built for sustainable growth.

• [20:17] Turn Supply Chain Challenges into an Advantage
  
  

Sean shares how managing inventory, production schedules, supplier relationships, forecasting, and expiration dates became just as important as developing the product itself. While these operational challenges are often overlooked, they create a significant competitive advantage for brands that master them. Sean explains why disciplined supply chain management enables sustainable growth and makes it harder for much larger competitors to successfully replicate your success.

Quotes:

1. "For me, if I'm gonna bring something to life, it has to be new and it has to be different. The fact that we could say we are the first and only of something, to me, that was like, okay. That is good enough for me to go down this rabbit hole." - Sean
   
   
2. "I'm not gonna do this unless it tastes good. Like, first and foremost, because all these new brands are coming out where it's ingredients you don't even know, you've never even heard of, can't even pronounce, and they don't taste good." - Sean
   
   
3. "The snack aisle is stale. Right? Figuratively, literally. There's been no innovation in the last thirty years." - Sean
   
   
4. "We're not trying to replace Doritos, Cheetos, and Fritos, but when you're going to buy your Cheetos, Doritos, and Fritos, we wanna be that extension." - Sean
   
   

What if the real barrier to healthier food isn't what consumers want, but how they shop?

In this episode of Behind the Shelf, host Keren Novack sits down with Jacob Trumbull, founder of Roaring Fork Mill, to explore the hidden forces shaping the future of food brands. Jacob reveals why the biggest challenge facing healthier, more sustainable food products isn’t consumer demand; it’s consumer behavior. Together, they unpack the “say-do gap,” where shoppers express interest in better ingredients and sustainable practices but often choose based on convenience, price, and availability. 

Jacob shares lessons from behavioral science, regenerative agriculture, and building a scalable grain ecosystem, explaining why accessibility, shelf placement, and frictionless purchasing matter more than education alone. From redefining the role of transparency to understanding what turns niche products into everyday habits, this conversation reveals how food innovators can build brands that truly connect with consumers and create lasting category change. 
What you will learn:

• The "Say-Do Gap" in Food Retail
• How to Win with Accessibility Over Perfection
• Why Regenerative Organic Certification Is the Next Big Shift
• The Principle of Least Effort in Every Touchpoint
• How to Bridge the Education-to-Action Gap
• Why Transparency Isn't Enough Without Distribution

Jacob Trumbull is the Founder of Roaring Fork Mill, a Colorado-based stone mill dedicated to rebuilding local grain systems through regenerative agriculture, heritage grains, and behavioral science-informed food innovation. With a unique background spanning environmental studies, behavioral science, and regenerative farming, Jacob brings a distinctive perspective to why consumers make the food choices they do and how to shift those behaviors at scale. 

Episode Resources:

• Jacob Trumbull on LinkedIn
• Roaring Fork Mill Website
• Keren Novack on LinkedIn
• Behind the Shelf on Apple Podcasts
• Behind the Shelf on Spotify
• Behind the Shelf on YouTube

Episode Highlights:

• [05:12] The Gluten Sensitivity Myth Explained

Jacob reveals the surprising gap between perception and reality: while 32% of Americans believe they are gluten sensitive, only around 3% actually are. He explains that the issue often comes from highly processed, bleached flour rather than gluten itself. By focusing on better processing methods and heritage grains, Jacob shows how brands can solve real consumer problems, create healthier alternatives, and transform restrictive eating habits into sustainable food choices.

• [09:21] Why Accessibility Drives Food Brand Growth

Jacob explains why accessibility, not just product quality or marketing claims, is what separates niche products from mainstream success. He shares how pricing, availability, and shelf placement determine whether consumers actually adopt better food choices. For brands looking to scale, Jacob emphasizes that the distribution strategy must be considered from the beginning. A great product cannot change behavior if shoppers cannot easily find it, afford it, or fit it into their everyday routines.

• [11:09] How Shelf Placement Shapes Buying Decisions

Jacob explores the power of choice architecture and how retail environments influence consumer decisions. He explains that shelf placement is more than a logistical detail, it is a behavioral science tool that directly impacts discovery and sales. From eye-level positioning to retailer strategy, Jacob reveals why brands must think beyond product development and understand how physical placement affects purchasing behavior, especially when trying to move from specialty markets into mainstream retail.

• [14:11] The Say-Do Gap in Consumer Choices

Jacob breaks down the disconnect between what consumers say they value and what they actually purchase. While shoppers express interest in healthier ingredients and sustainable products, convenience, price, and availability often determine the final decision. He explains why transparency and education alone are not enough to change habits. Brands must remove friction and make better choices easier through accessible pricing, wider distribution, and smarter retail strategies.

• [16:39] Removing Friction to Increase Food Sales

Jacob applies the principle of least effort to both online and physical shopping experiences. He explains how small barriers, like a slower checkout process or poor shelf placement, can significantly reduce conversions. For brands, every consumer touchpoint matters, from website design to retail positioning. Jacob highlights that reducing friction is a competitive advantage because even the best products struggle when customers have to work harder to discover, evaluate, or purchase them.

• [23:01] The Hidden Challenges of Scaling Distribution

Jacob reveals why national expansion creates unexpected challenges for growing food brands. Moving from local sales to major retailers introduces complex distribution systems, longer approval cycles, database requirements, and increased operational costs. He explains that scaling requires more than a great product—it demands strong business models, careful margin planning, and strategic partnerships. Brands that overlook distribution complexity risk losing profitability even after achieving retail success.


Quotes:

1. "Thirty-two percent of people in the US think they're gluten sensitive, and only three percent actually are. It's because we've created in a food item, an ingredient, white over-processed and bleached flour that is more chemically based than a natural ingredient. Our bodies can't digest it, but it's not that you can't have flour, you can't have this over-processed flour."
2. "One is accessibility. If a product is too special or too pricey, it's not accessible. If it's only available to a certain subset of people, it's not gonna change larger norms around how we view that item or that vertical within food. If it's not accessible in conventional stores, you're not having as big of an impact as you could."
3. "Choice architecture is the layout of where your product is on the shelf. Our eyes are drawn to certain areas of shelves in stores. If you can work with the retailers that you're in and have your product at eye level, you're gonna sell a lot more product. Getting a good placement on a store shelf could mean the difference between your dream retailer succeeding or failing."
4. "If you can get something to somebody and lessen the barriers to that purchasing, you're winning. If your website's confusing to navigate, you're gonna lose so much conversion because people will click out if checkout takes three seconds longer than they want. That's how short people's attention span is these days."
   
   

What if the secret to building a cult-following brand wasn't fancy manufacturing or massive marketing budgets, but genuine human connection?
In this episode of Behind the Shelf, Keren Novack sits down with Maggie Schmieder, founder of Bitty Balm, to explore how a simple kitchen experiment evolved into a thriving clean beauty brand with an impressive 55% repeat customer rate. Maggie shares the lessons she learned from building products by hand, listening closely to customer feedback, and prioritizing relationships over traditional marketing tactics. The conversation dives into product innovation, brand positioning, consumer trust, and the challenges of standing out in the crowded beauty industry. 
Maggie explains why simplicity can be a competitive advantage, how transparency builds loyalty, and why understanding customers on a personal level creates lasting growth. This episode offers valuable insights for founders, marketers, and anyone interested in building brands that customers genuinely love. 
What you will learn:

• Why "products made for girls" fail with Gen Z consumers
• How to build a 55% repeat customer rate as a solopreneur in a saturated market 
• The formula-first approach to brand building 
• How to reframe product limitations as brand differentiation
• The underrated power of consumer education in building trust and repeat purchases.
• Why the beauty industry still has a credibility problem

Maggie Schmieder is the founder of Bitty Balm, a clean beauty brand revolutionizing multi-use cosmetics for health-conscious consumers. A special education teacher and lifelong maker by nature, Maggie identified a critical gap in the beauty market: the near-total absence of dye-free, ingredient-conscious makeup options safe for both kids and adults. Since launching Bitty Balm in February 2024, she has hand-formulated and manufactured every product, earning recognition including a Clean Beauty Award in her first year and placement in premium retail locations across the North Shore of Chicago.

Episode Timeline:

• [00:00] Intro
• [00:48] From Teacher to Maker: The Creator Behind Bitty Balm
• [01:28] The Glittery Eyeshadow Moment That Started It All
• [03:57] From Pink Pots to Colorful Sticks: How Customer Feedback Shaped the Product
• [05:06] Why "Makeup for Girls" Failed (And What Worked Instead)
• [09:30] Imposter Syndrome, Cancer Survivors, and Real Customer Stories
• [12:52] The Relationship Hack That Built 55% Repeat Customers
• [16:27] Why Hand-Making Everything Is Your Competitive Advantage
• [17:48] The Beauty Industry's Big Problem (And Your Opportunity)
• [20:19] Less Is More: The Real Innovation Strategy
• [21:02] The Shelf Check: Rapid-Fire Wisdom
• [23:04] Key Takeaways & Final Thoughts

Episode Resources:

• Maggie Schmieder on LinkedIn
• Bitty Balm Website
• Keren Novack on LinkedIn
• Behind the Shelf on Apple Podcasts
• Behind the Shelf on Spotify
• Behind the Shelf on YouTube

Episode Highlights:

• [05:06] Build Aspirational Brands That Cross Generations

Maggie learned that positioning Bitty Balm as “makeup for girls” limited its appeal because younger consumers aspire to use the same products adults use, not simplified versions designed specifically for them. By shifting from age-based marketing to aspirational, lifestyle-focused positioning, she broadened the brand’s reach and attracted loyal repeat buyers. The experience highlights how values-driven branding can outperform demographic segmentation and create stronger connections across multiple generations of consumers.

• [07:33] Remove Small Frictions to Create Lasting Customer Loyalty

Maggie discovered that seemingly minor inconveniences can have a major impact on customer satisfaction and retention. Bitty Balm redesigned packaging so customers could quickly identify colors and transitioned from pots to sticks to improve usability, even though it required significant reformulation and extra production work. By treating small customer frustrations as important product opportunities, she improved the overall experience and strengthened loyalty, proving that repeat business is often earned through thoughtful details rather than large marketing initiatives.

• [09:30] Turn Customer Complaints Into Loyalty-Building Opportunities

Rather than viewing complaints as problems to resolve quickly, Maggie treats them as opportunities to deepen customer relationships. When a customer questioned product variability, she explained the hand-crafted process behind Bitty Balm and provided personalized guidance to help find the ideal product match. This combination of education, transparency, and individual attention transformed skepticism into trust. Her approach demonstrates how thoughtful service recovery can create stronger loyalty than a frictionless experience and generate powerful word-of-mouth advocacy.

• [12:52] Make Relationships Your Most Powerful Growth Channel

Operating in a crowded beauty market, Maggie built strong repeat purchase rates by prioritizing genuine human relationships over traditional customer acquisition tactics. She invests time in remembering customers, engaging personally at events, and creating meaningful community connections that extend beyond transactions. These authentic interactions frequently lead to referrals, partnerships, and repeat purchases. Her experience challenges brands to view relationship-building not as a supplemental activity but as a primary growth strategy capable of outperforming expensive paid marketing channels.

• [17:48] Use Simplicity as Innovation in Crowded Categories

Maggie argues that many beauty brands rely on complex ingredient stories and exaggerated claims that often confuse consumers. Bitty Balm takes the opposite approach by emphasizing streamlined formulas, transparency, and realistic product benefits. Rather than adding more ingredients or promises, the brand focuses on creating effective products with fewer components and greater clarity. As consumers increasingly value authenticity and regulatory scrutiny rises, simplicity becomes a meaningful form of innovation that helps build trust and differentiation.


Quotes:

1. "I realized that while I had made the product and it's really great for everybody, a product for everybody was really kind of a product made for no one. It turned out that women who are busy and educated are the Bitty Balm buyers, those that are at the store grabbing the dye-free Cheetos off the shelf. They want to look great, but they also want to make better choices for themselves."
2. "I started out with small pots, but I quickly learned that girls don't want makeup made for girls. Consumers were asking for a stick; I listened, and that came with challenges because I had to tweak the formula to be a different consistency. Each of these little tweaks was directly related to what the consumer wanted."
3. "The press and the accolades are wonderful, and they give me social proof, but really the thing that's special is the actual customers. When someone tells me they bought it because they're a cancer survivor, or a woman with rare breast cancer who can't use anything with hormone-disrupting ingredients, it's those stories that make it all worth it."
4. "Just in the last thirty days, as I look at our data, 55% of sales were from repeat customers. That's a pretty big number, and it really comes down to building those connections and finding personal relationships that solidify Bitty Balm as a brand."

What if the biggest mistake food brands make is assuming consumers want innovation more than great taste?

In this episode of Behind the Shelf, Keren Novack sits down with Jason Burke, founder and CEO of New Primal, to explore the realities of building a food brand that survives, and thrives, on crowded retail shelves. Drawing from his journey of growing New Primal from a homemade jerky business into a brand carried in more than 10,000 stores, Jason shares why consumer behavior is often misunderstood and why repeat purchases matter far more than initial curiosity.

The conversation dives into product development, retail strategy, consumer trust, and the economics of shelf space. Jason explains why familiar products often outperform flashy innovations, how brands should think about expansion, and why authentic credibility is difficult for legacy companies to recreate. He also reveals why taste remains the ultimate competitive advantage, regardless of trends, health claims, or marketing campaigns.
What you will learn:

• Why "Just Vanilla" Wins at Scale
• The "Narrow and Deep" Paradox: Landing 100 doors across multiple retailers 
• How to Distinguish Movements from Trends
• The Hidden Cost of Shelf Space Nobody Talks About
• Why Consumer Surveys Lie (But Taste Never Does)
• The Trust Tax on Legacy Brands Trying to Pivot

Jason Burke is the founder and CEO of New Primal, a leading clean-label food company whose products are sold in more than 10,000 stores nationwide. Inspired by his parents' health challenges, Jason transformed a homemade jerky recipe into an eight-figure business with multiple #1-selling product lines across jerky, kids' snacks, sauces, and seasonings. Known for challenging industry norms, he has helped prove that clean ingredients can succeed at scale while influencing legacy brands to rethink their products. Jason regularly shares insights on building category-defining consumer brands.
Episode Timeline:

• [00:00] Intro
• [01:53] Why "Healthy" Products Failed Before They Even Tasted Good
• [04:46] Taste and Trust: The Two T's That Make or Break Brands
• [06:36] How Authenticity Defeats Legacy Brands Trying to Pivot
• [10:08] The "Vanilla Strategy": Why Boring Wins Over Adventurous Flavors
• [12:19] The Rotisserie Chicken Principle: Lead With Familiar, Then Innovate
• [15:03] Narrow and Deep Beats Door Count Every Single Time
• [19:47] Stop Chasing Trends: Spot Movements by Looking Ancestral
• [25:06] Gen Z Is Reading Labels at 15: Consumer Consciousness Is Irreversible
• [30:11] The Hidden Economics of Shelf Space Nobody Talks About
• [31:07] One Ingredient Consumers Claim to Care About But Never Act On

Episode Resources:

• Jason Burke on LinkedIn
• New Primal Website
• Keren Novack on LinkedIn
• Behind the Shelf on Apple Podcasts
• Behind the Shelf on Spotify
• Behind the Shelf on YouTube

Episode Highlights:

• [04:46] Great Taste Drives Repeat Purchases, Not Marketing Claims

Jason explains that while consumers often claim to prioritize health benefits, certifications, and clean ingredients, their purchasing behavior tells a different story. Taste remains the single most important factor behind repeat purchases. He advises brands to build products around exceptional flavor first and use nutritional benefits as supporting proof points. New Primal succeeded by offering familiar, enjoyable flavors while improving ingredient quality, proving that authenticity and great taste create stronger loyalty than health-focused marketing alone.

• [12:19] Familiar Flavors Create a Path to Innovation

Jason shares how New Primal introduced chicken meat sticks by anchoring them to the familiar taste of rotisserie chicken rather than leading with novelty. Consumers are more willing to try something new when they can connect it to a flavor they already understand and enjoy. He argues that successful innovation starts with familiarity, allowing brands to build trust and trial before expanding into more adventurous offerings. Winning the basics first creates the foundation for long-term product innovation.

• [15:03] Win Core Stores Before Expanding Distribution

Jason challenges the common belief that more retail doors automatically create growth. He argues that emerging brands should focus on dominating a smaller group of stores before expanding. Strong repeat purchases and sales velocity create a flywheel that supports profitable scaling, while weak performance across many locations often leads to costly retailer exits. Since most revenue comes from existing customers, building loyalty and performance in core markets is far more valuable than chasing rapid distribution growth.

• [19:27] Build Around Movements, Not Short-Term Trends

Jason encourages brands to distinguish lasting consumer movements from temporary industry trends. He points to protein as an example of a long-term shift rooted in human nutrition rather than a recent fad. Instead of relying on trend reports or survey data, he recommends looking for behaviors connected to ancestral eating patterns, nutrient density, and real food. Brands that align with these enduring movements can create sustainable growth opportunities that last for decades rather than a few years.

• [26:31] Gen Z Expects Ingredient Transparency by Default

Jason observes that younger consumers are already highly aware of nutrition and ingredient quality. During a visit to a high school entrepreneurship class, students instinctively examined ingredient labels and nutritional information before tasting products. He believes this signals a permanent shift in consumer expectations. For brands, transparency and clean ingredients are quickly becoming standard requirements rather than competitive advantages. Companies that establish credibility early will be better positioned than legacy brands trying to rebuild trust later.

• [29:18] Why Shelf Space Economics Favor Large Brands

Jason highlights the hidden financial realities of retail distribution. Emerging brands face the same slotting fees, promotional expenses, and placement costs as major food companies, despite lacking the scale and resources of major food companies. This creates pressure to prioritize carefully and avoid launching too many products too quickly. Understanding these economics helps founders make smarter decisions about retailer partnerships, product portfolios, and expansion plans while avoiding costly distribution opportunities that fail to generate sufficient sales velocity.

Quotes:

1. "Flavor and taste are really everything. I think consumers, even if you pull them, do surveys about the badges they want on the products or the nutritional callouts or anything like that, they may be important, but taste is always paramount. The brands that really are breaking through have been doing it a long time, and they started with a very core niche consumer that they were serving before it created more mainstream broad appeal."
2. "You can have super berry, fruity, whatever all day long. You can have peach orchard. You can do all these cute fun flavors, and they may perhaps all be incremental to the category in some way, but we like vanilla ice cream. We like vanilla yogurt. And so I think sometimes brands get a little cute in how they create new items, and they create all this, like, they're attempting to create categories or create perception around ideas that are pretty niche, or too nascent."
3. "I think most of us just go very wide, whether that be in door count or distribution or in our assortment. We start to add new flavors and a bunch of new cute things, and we get too wide before we've really created a true highly loyal repeat audience. Narrow and deep is significantly better than being too wide and too shallow."
4. "If you're just knocking them down and you don't have any flywheel going, it's just gonna cost you an extraordinary amount of money. You're gonna pay us money in slotting fees. Product's not gonna move off the shelf, and a year later, they're gonna cut you. And then getting that opportunity again is three or four years down the road if you're lucky."

Behind the Shelf is where product ideas meet real-world reality. Hosted by Keren Novack and powered by Curion, this podcast goes beyond marketing claims to uncover what actually makes products succeed once they hit the shelf.

Each episode brings you inside the minds of founders, brand leaders, and product innovators across CPG, FMCG, beauty, food and beverage, and retail. From early-stage concepts to billion-dollar brands, you’ll hear field-tested insights behind the decisions, data, and consumer behavior that shape winning products.

We're jumping beyond speculative theories to talking about what real consumers do, not what we assume they do.

Through candid conversations and data-backed perspectives, Behind the Shelf reveals the gap between intention and impact, helping you build products people truly choose, use, and love.

If you’re building, testing, or scaling products, this is your shortcut to smarter decisions—and better outcomes.