This is a side quest for our podcast, where Ben Burns was kind enough to come on again and talk about his new Kickstarter, "The Zeta Complex" -a product I've been antsy for him to release since playing an early version at North Texas in 2020.  As a bonus, Bill Barsh talks about gearing up to launch his Kickstarter for "Tome of Quests" a remastered anthology of his company's early hits.  We talk (in general) about Kickstarting, trying to get product out, and the pitfalls of shipping.  If you are a small publisher or longing to be, there are plenty of gems of advice thrown out in this discussion.  Otherwise, you get to hear about some great RPG products you're not going to want to miss out on!