The Unscripted SEO Interview Podcast

Benas Leonavicius on AI Search Optimization, Scaling Freelance SEO, and Why Keynote Speakers Need Basic SEO

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Benas Leonavicius
Freelance SEO Consultant & Agency Builder
Website | LinkedIn | Substack

Benas Leonavicius has spent 10 years in the SEO trenches—from working with large e-commerce sites to navigating the bureaucratic nightmare of enterprise SaaS SEO. Now he's building an agency focused on keynote speakers, authors, and coaches, where basic SEO fundamentals deliver outsized results.

In this conversation, we dive deep into:

  • Why AI search optimization is the new frontier (and why tracking is nearly impossible)
  • How to actually appear in ChatGPT and AI overviews
  • The shift from website-centric to entity-centric SEO
  • Why SaaS companies are terrible clients for freelance SEO scalability
  • The #1 thing keynote speakers get wrong (hint: they don't mention their keywords)
  • Whether new people should enter SEO in 2025

    • If you're a freelancer trying to scale, a speaker trying to get found, or anyone wondering how AI is changing search—this episode is for you.

    Key Topics Discussed
    AI Search Optimization (11:11 - 21:03)
    • The biggest challenge with AI search: tracking is nearly impossible
    • How ChatGPT and Perplexity source their answers (training data + tiered Google searches)
    • Why speaker bureaus and listicles dominate AI search results for keynote speakers
    • The 25% consistency problem: AI gives different answers to different users
    • Backlinks, PR, mentions, and social media as the foundation of AI visibility
    • How to reverse-engineer AI sources by simply asking ChatGPT what it referenced
      • The SaaS SEO Nightmare (03:47 - 07:34)
      • Why SaaS companies limit freelancer scalability (1-2 clients max per month)
      • The JIRA ticket trap: submitting tickets just to edit meta descriptions
      • Managing multiple stakeholders with competing priorities
      • How product changes constantly disrupt long-term SEO strategy
      • Why Benas stopped taking SaaS clients despite their lucrative budgets
        • Keynote Speaker SEO Opportunities (02:14 - 03:47, 25:19 - 28:10)
        • Why 90% of speakers have zero SEO optimization
        • The differentiation trap: avoiding keywords to sound unique
        • The highest ROI fix: adding proper meta titles with target keywords
        • Why speakers already have strong websites—they just don't know it
        • Talk Thrive Agency: Benas's keynote speaker SEO service
          • Content vs. Links vs. Technical SEO (07:34 - 09:07)
          • Why Benas focuses on on-page content optimization
          • Link building feels "solved" and basic in 2025
          • Technical SEO's limitations for most businesses
          • Finding the middle ground between all three domains
            • AI Content Creation Reality Check (09:07 - 11:11)
            • ChatGPT as "your most popular but least trained customer support rep" (Matt Brooks, SEOteric)
            • Why Benas doesn't jump on new AI tools immediately
            • Using AI as a brainstorming and first draft tool, not a final solution
            • The hallucination and authenticity problem with over-reliance
              • Entity SEO vs. Website SEO (15:21 - 20:08)
              • How LLMs use training databases and tiered search results
              • Getting third-party content ranked, even when it's not on your site
              • Why digital visibility is shifting from website-centric to entity-centric
              • Direct traffic increasing as people find brands through AI, not clicks
              • Impressions mattering more than clicks (the Instagram-ification of search)
                • Should You Freelance in SEO Today? (21:03 - 23:24)
                • Why the future of SEO is uncertain but potentially opportune
                • The "SEO is dead" fear that didn't materialize
                • Learning LLM optimization now as a 5-7 year bet
                • Why established SEO pros have an easier path than newcomers
                • The risk of learning a skill that becomes hard to monetize
                  • Common SEO Mistakes (23:24 - 25:19)
                  • Most clients haven't done any SEO at all
                  • Websites that accidentally built authority over a decade
                  • Not knowing what to do with existing SEO strength
                  • Little details that make a huge difference
                    • Best Quotes

                    On SaaS Scalability:

                    "Although I can provide a lot of value to SaaS companies, at the end of the day, I might only have one or two clients like that per month, and then I cannot scale."

                    On AI Search Sources:

                    "For you to be on ChatGPT, you basically need to be on either the speaker bureau's websites or you need to be on those listicles because that seems to be one of the primary sources."

                    On AI's Future:

                    "I think what we're playing with is probably the worst version AI will ever be. I feel like we're still going upwards, not downwards."

                    On Keynote Speaker SEO:

                    "Imagine you're a speaker that wants to target keywords such as 'leadership keynote speaker.' They don't even have 'leadership' anywhere mentioned on their website because they want to differentiate themselves."

                    On Entity-Centric SEO:

                    "Digital visibility is less centric just to the website, but more towards the entity." - Jeremy Rivera

                    On SEO Fundamentals:

                    "Do you actually mention the keywords in the titles and the text? That's probably the highest ROI thing I do for my clients."

                    ...more
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                    The Unscripted SEO Interview PodcastBy Jeremy Rivera