In this episode we talk with Dr. Tiffany Manuel, President and CEO of TheCaseMade, a strategic consulting firm that helps leaders build the public will to intentionally tackle the issues of systems change, equity and inclusion. Dr. T, as she prefers to be called, authored an essay for the What Works Volume that argues that strategic casemaking is critical for how we engage public audiences about poverty, place and race. In our conversation we explore specific examples of shaping public narratives that engage people across different identities, backgrounds, and geographies.