Better Sign Shop Podcast

Rick McDonough of Typestries (Long Beach Island, NJ) joins Bryant and Michael for a long-overdue conversation about three decades in the sign business. Rick walks through the unlikely path from a lifeguarding magazine to a college dorm sign shop, the wholesale boom that nearly broke him, and the EFI walk-out moment that made him scrap the contract and rebuild the company around work he actually wanted to do. They get into why AI has Rick more energized than he's been in years, from the food truck cop who designed his entire wrap in ChatGPT, to the Claude-built inventory system that finally solved his missing-bin problem, to the $15K monument signs AI is now pre-selling before the client walks in the door. Plus: why "no ugly signs" is a business strategy, why presentation quality wins bids even when your design is worse, and the workforce cliff that should terrify every shop owner.

In this episode:

• Rick's accidental path into signs (lifeguarding magazine, yearbook, first sandblasted wood sign)
• The "sald" menu disaster and why proofing is sacred
• Starting up in 1996 next to a cocaine distribution ring
• Three decades of equipment chases: Gerber Edge, the In CAD conversion fiasco, Gandy Innovations going bust overnight
• Walking out on a million-dollar EFI contract when he saw Four Over's order on the floor
• Why he intentionally scaled the business down to four people
• The wholesale vs. retail trap and how to outsource the right way
• Burnout, almost selling, and the headmaster who talked him out of it
• The food truck cop who changed Rick's mind on AI
• AI slop vs. good prompting
• Using AI to pre-sell $15K signs before the client walks in
• When AI becomes a problem: the 5-vehicle wrap committee
• What AI can't do: shop drawings, codes, wind load, soil conditions
• The lawn care guy to $3,500 truck wrap pipeline
• Building a Claude-powered inventory system for the shop
• Why presentation wins bids (even when the design is worse)
• "No ugly signs" and why the industry shoots itself in the foot
• Speaking the language of 20-something entrepreneurs when you're 52
• Why your sign shop website matters more than ever
• The coming workforce cliff and the overseas outsourcing question
• Rick's pitch for getting young people into the trade

Chapters:

01:30 Introducing Rick and a 20-year Facebook friendship

03:30 From lifeguarding magazine to first sandblasted wood sign

07:00 The "sald" disaster and the gospel of proofing

10:30 Starting up next to a cocaine distribution ring

12:00 Gerber Edge, NYC film & TV, and the start of wholesale

14:30 In CAD conversions and Gandy Innovations going bust overnight

17:00 Walking out on the EFI contract

19:00 Right-sizing on purpose: today's four-person shop

22:00 Outsourcing the right way and the referral economy

27:30 Wholesale burnout and missing the local work

30:30 Almost selling: the headmaster who talked him out of it

33:00 Making the work fun again

36:00 The food truck cop and Rick's AI conversion moment

42:00 AI slop vs. good prompting

44:00 How AI is pre-selling $15K signs

47:00 When AI becomes a problem: the 5-vehicle wrap committee

51:00 What AI can't do: shop drawings, codes, wind load

58:00 The lawn care guy to $3,500 wrap pipeline

1:06:00 Claude-built inventory and shop operations

1:11:00 Why presentation wins bids

1:18:00 "No ugly signs" and the industry's self-inflicted wounds

1:21:00 Using AI to connect with younger entrepreneurs

1:25:00 Why your website matters more than ever

1:33:00 The coming workforce cliff

1:39:00 China factories and overseas outsourcing

1:43:00 Rick's pitch for getting young people into signs

Resources & links:

• Typestries: https://typestries.com
• Sign A Day (Rick's photo blog): https://signaday.com
• GCI Digital (TJ's wholesale shop): https://gcidigital.com
• ShopVox: https://shopvox.com
• FireSprint: https://firesprint.com
• Signs 365: https://signs365.com
• ChatGPT: https://chatgpt.com
• Claude: https://claude.ai

Bryant and Michael are back after over a year away from the mic. They catch up on life — Mike's transition to full-time caretaker for his mom, Bryant's work at Directus, and their shared obsession with AI.

They answer listener questions about energy and reinvention as a small business owner, share spicy takes on why "we treat our employees like family" is a red flag, and tease a new software project for the sign industry. Plus: why your sign shop website matters more than ever in the age of AI.

In this episode:

• Catching up after a year away
• Mike's journey as a full-time caretaker
• Restarting the podcast and newsletter
• Teasing a new software project for sign shops
• Listener Q&A: How to keep your energy up
• Burnout, passion, and delegation
• Why your website matters more than ever (AI and SEO)
• Spicy take: Stop treating employees like family

Peter Guba spent 8 years working inside Google with over 1,000 different accounts before starting his own paid ads agency, Profit Mill. In this episode, he reveals why most sign shops are burning money on Google Ads and shares the simple strategy that actually works.

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Key Points Discussed:

• Why Google Ads fail: The real reasons 90% of sign shop advertising campaigns don't work (and it's not what you think)
• The $500 test: How to start Google Ads the right way without betting the farm
• Unit economics breakdown: The math every sign shop owner needs to know before spending a dollar on ads
• Local vs. product ads: Which Google ad types actually work for sign shops
• The attribution problem: How to track if your ads are actually generating sales
• Website optimization: Why your Google Ads success depends more on what happens AFTER the click
• Closing the loop: The simple question every sign shop should ask every customer

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Links:

• Profit Mill: https://profitmill.io

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Timestamps:

• 00:00 - Intro
• 01:27 - Why Peter left Google after 8 years
• 04:40 - The agency problem: Why 90% don't deliver
• 09:12 - When sign shops should (and shouldn't) use Google Ads
• 13:55 - The only ad strategy sign shops actually need
• 22:12 - Local campaigns vs. search ads
• 28:07 - Biggest mistakes sign shops make
• 31:12 - Budget recommendations and unit economics
• 38:18 - Tracking results and attribution
• 43:20 - Website optimization for ad traffic
• 52:30 - How to avoid getting burned by agencies
• 57:05 - The future of Google Ads for sign shops

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Are you a sign or print shop owner? Join the Better Sign Shop Community - our exclusive Facebook group for shop owners and managers. Connect and learn from peers at https://www.facebook.com/groups/bettersignshopmastermind.

In this episode, Bryant and Mike continue their deep dive into the ever-evolving world of AI, building on the discussion from the previous episode. They explore the rapid growth of AI models, highlighting both their incredible benefits and the challenges they pose within the sign industry.

Beyond discussing the impact of AI, Bryant and Mike showcase some of their favorite AI-powered tools that they use daily, offering insights into how these innovations are reshaping workflows and creativity.

Tune in for an engaging and thought-provoking conversation as we navigate the fast-paced changes AI is bringing to our world—and what the future might hold!

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In this episode...

00:00           Intro
00:32            "AI" Models Rapid Growth
07:48            Tools We Use 
12:23            TypingMind
18:53            AI for SEO
25:43            Tools for Text Generation
36:27            Current AI Situation 
47:20            "AI" in Everyday life
53:35            Deepseek
58:00            "AI" Thinks
01:00:25       Directus
01:02:25       Replicate
01:08:00       NotebookLM
01:12:00       Clay
01:14:15       Perplexity
01:17:50       Loveable
01:21:45       Replit
01:28:50       Takeaways
01:34:04      Outro

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Are you a sign or print shop owner?
Join the Better Sign Shop Community - our exclusive Facebook group for shop owners and managers. Connect and learn from peers at https://www.facebook.com/groups/bettersignshopmastermind.

In this episode, Bryant and Michael take a deep dive into how AI is reshaping the sign and design industry. They explore its growing impact on the creative process, discussing whether AI is a helpful tool for designers or a force that could potentially harm the industry as a whole.

From automating routine tasks to enabling innovative design solutions, AI offers exciting possibilities, but it also raises critical questions about originality, ethics, and the future role of human designers. To bring theory into practice, Bryant and Michael put one of Michael’s banner designs to the test, leveraging AI tools to see how they measure up against traditional methods.

Join the conversation as they weigh the pros and cons of AI, debate its long-term implications, and consider how designers can adapt to thrive in an increasingly AI-driven landscape.

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In this episode...

00:00           Intro
00:32           Catching Up
08:05           Last year's learnings
12:25            Creative but uninterested in the business side
15:11             The Ominous AI
16:25            Takes on AI
21:00            AI on a daily basis
25:40           AI Impact on Creativity
36:18            Dangers of AI
39:29           Dangers for Designers 
42:20           Shift of designers 
46:00           Using Claud to replicate Mike's design
51:40            Tool For Creativity
01:00:39       AI for younger generation
01:05:03       Takeaways 
01:07:00       Outro

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Are you a sign or print shop owner?
Join the Better Sign Shop Community - our exclusive Facebook group for shop owners and managers. Connect and learn from peers at https://www.facebook.com/groups/bettersignshopmastermind.

In this engaging podcast Series, Peter shares his 10 Sign Shop Commandments—a comprehensive set of principles designed to drive your sign shop's financial success. 

These commandments aren’t just generic advice; they are presented in a unique percentage-based format, offering clear and actionable insights to help you stabilize, optimize, and elevate your business operations.

Bryant and Peter delve deep into each commandment, unpacking the strategies and steps necessary for implementation. They discuss how these rules can fix sign shop owners' challenges and difficulties. 

Whether you're just starting out or looking to take your business to the next level, these ten commandments serve as your roadmap to success.

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In this episode...

00:00     Intro.
00:50     Sign Shop Yoda.
04:40     Recap of first five commandments.
06:44     Advertising Budget Query 
11:17     6th Commandment: Total Payroll 
21:36     7th Commandment: Average Payroll
26:08     8th Commandment: Lead Conversion
33:37     9th Commandment: Hourly Rate
44:39     10th Commandment: Quote to Sales Order
53:58      Outro

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Are you a sign or print shop owner?
Join the Better Sign Shop Community - our exclusive Facebook group for shop owners and managers. Connect and learn from peers at https://www.facebook.com/groups/bettersignshopmastermind.

In this engaging podcast Series, Peter shares his 10 Sign Shop Commandments—a comprehensive set of principles designed to drive your sign shop's financial success. 

These commandments aren’t just generic advice; they are presented in a unique percentage-based format, offering clear and actionable insights to help you stabilize, optimize, and elevate your business operations.

Bryant and Peter dive deep into each commandment, unpacking the strategies and steps necessary for implementation. They discuss how these rules can fix sign shop owners' challenges and difficulties. 

Whether you're just starting out or looking to take your business to the next level, these ten commandments serve as your roadmap to success.

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In this episode...

00:00      Intro
00:32      Catching Up
06:20      Year-end and sign-shop
09:05      10 Sign Shop commandments
11:40      1st Commandment: Gross Profit Margins
15:09      2nd Commandment: Direct labor percentage
18:13      3rd Commandment: Material cost
26:10      4th Commandment: Operating expenses
32:35      5th Commandment: Advertising budget
42:20      Jason’s Question on Marketing Vendor
46:23      Ride the wave (ridethewave.info)
48:18      For Introverts
53:33      Social Sponge (socialsponge.biz)
57:03      Recap
58:32      Outro

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Are you a sign or print shop owner?
Join the Better Sign Shop Community - our exclusive Facebook group for shop owners and managers. Connect and learn from peers at https://www.facebook.com/groups/bettersignshopmastermind.

Sign Up For Shop Software Spotlight
https://lu.ma/shop-software-spotlight

In this quick announcement episode, Bryant catches up with listeners after a brief hiatus and shares three exciting updates from the Better Sign Shop team.

Key Announcements:

• - Podcast Update: The team is back after taking time to focus on work and family, with new episodes and guests lined up
• - Shop Software Spotlight Series: A comprehensive demo program featuring seven major sign shop management software vendors including Ordant, SignTracker, Onyx Align, SquareCoil, InkSoft, InkWorks, and CoreBridge
• - New Website Product: Preview of an upcoming website and marketing platform specifically built for sign shops

The Shop Software Spotlight series runs from November 14th through December 10th, featuring guided demonstrations and Q&A sessions with each vendor. Free registration available at lu.ma/shop-software-spotlight.

In this episode...
00:00 Intro & Welcome Back
01:15 Team Update
03:15 Shop Software Spotlight Announcement
13:30 Demo Series Schedule
18:15 New Website Product Preview
20:45 Closing

Are you a sign shop owner interested in being featured on the podcast or joining the website platform beta? Email [email protected]. 

For software vendors interested in participating in the spotlight series, reach out to [email protected].

Join the Better Sign Shop Community - our exclusive Facebook group for shop owners and managers at https://www.facebook.com/groups/bettersignshopmastermind.

Jim Dawson owns Synergy Sign & Graphics in Strasburg, OH. From humble beginnings in his basement 20 years ago, he has built a business that thrives on challenges and innovation. In this podcast, he shares his experiences with creative architectural signage.

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This episode is sponsored by:

GCI Digital Imaging
Your partner for large/grand format trade printing. Known for exceptional customer service, GCI Digital Imaging is the go-to for banners, coroplast signs, vehicle wraps, and other digitally printed graphics.
Discover more in Episode #9 or visit https://gci-digital.com.

Jaco Wholesale Sign Products
Looking to enhance your clients' impact and boost your profits with flat-cut acrylic letters and logos? Jaco Wholesale Sign Products delivers laser-cut acrylic letters and signage with quick turnaround times and excellent communication. They offer a wide range of mounting options, Pantone matching, several acrylic thicknesses, and nationwide shipping.
Visit https://sign.supply/bss/ for a quote and $50 off your first order.

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Links:
Dan Sawatzky Episode: https://youtu.be/QHOBWzf-5QY

Synergy Signs Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/synergy_signs/

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Key Points Discussed:

- Business and Personal life: Jim shares his business and personal life and how he and his wife manage it all together.

- Jim's Journey: Jim shares his journey and how he ended up with signage from an animator and cabinet shop. 

-Architecture Projects: Jim shares with us his amazing architecture Projects and shows us the workflow of working with architecture Projects.

-Client Expectation: We dive deep into this conversation, discussing the importance of knowing and fulfilling clients' expectations and how to let clients know what we expect from them.

- Pricing Methods: Jim discusses his pricing method and how he decides or adjusts his pricing and profit margins.

- Changes in the industry: We discuss the positive and negative aspects of the industry's changes and how they will affect the market and the future of signage.
 
-Jim's Workshop: Jim talks about his workshop, which they conduct a few times per year. Y http://www.synergysign.com/sign-alchemy-workshops/

-Sign Shop School: Jim and Peter discuss their future plan to open a sign shop school and give back to the industry.

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In this episode...

00:00            Intro

00:38            Sponsor

01:27             Catching Up

04:40            Winning a Lottery

09:12             About Jim

10:25             Working with Wife

13:55             From Animator to cabinet shop to signage

19:12              The Progression.

22:12             Storefront walk-in traffic

28:07             Inflection Point 

31:12              Jim’s architecture projects   

33:12              Fulfilling Client Expectations

36:25             90-day Terms

38:18              Equipments

43:20             Fire Prevention

46:02             Workflow with architecture Projects.

52:30             Pricing Method

57:05             Changes in the Industry

01:02:42        Jim’s Workshop

01:12:12          Sign Shop School

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Are you a sign or print shop owner?
Join the Better Sign Shop Community - our exclusive Facebook group for shop owners and managers. Connect and learn from peers at https://www.facebook.com/groups/bettersignshopmastermind.

Interested in being a guest on the show or have questions for our team? Reach out to us at [email protected].

In this episode, we're joined by Dan Yoder - the owner of Sign Art Studio, a killer sign shop with 30 people near Madison, Wisconsin. Dan has been in the industry since 2005 and gives us valuable insights on various topics such as the business and art side of the industry, the importance of systems and processes, hiring and managing employees, and more.

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This episode is sponsored by:
GCI Digital Imaging - Your partner for large/grand format trade printing. Known for their exceptional customer service, GCI Digital Imaging is the go-to for banners, coroplast signs, vehicle wraps, and other digitally printed graphics. Discover more in Episode #9 or visit https://gci-digital.com.

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Key Points Discussed:

- Dan's Origin Story: Dan has always been interested in art and fell in love with this craft early in his life. Making mistakes, learning from them, and growing forward continuously. He started his own business in 2005 and now has a team of about 30.

- Team Management: Dan discusses Sign Art Studio, how he started the business, and how he tackled all of its problems. He tells us the structure of his team and how it works. He also shares the importance of Teamwork and how he manages his team to gain efficiency.

- Hiring Question: Dan answered one of the most asked questions about hiring. He shares his thoughts on hiring somebody with no experience or someone with some signage experience.

- Business and Art: We dive deep into this discussion where we all share our thoughts on the "Business" and "Art" side of the industry, which one has more importance, and how both can be managed.

- Processes and Systems: We discuss processes and systems, layers of processes, flexibility with systems, having processes to set or change processes, and much more. Dan shares the Sign Art Studios' way of working and how they have set up their workflow.

- Right Type of Clients: Working with the right type of clients is a different experience, as it is much more collaborative and engaging and brings out the best in everyone. Dan gives solid advice to shop owners on finding the right type of clients and shares how they qualify and classify their clients. 

- Dan's Podcast: Dan does his own Podcast, which you must listen to. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m41OxFQbSPo

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In this episode...

00:00       Intro
00:38       Sponsor
02:28       Welcoming Dan
05:30       Dan’s Journey
09:55       Sign Art Studio
16:50       Team management and working
21:30       Hiring People
25:30       Last 10-20 years of the industry
32:20       Process of onboarding a new employee    
36:00       Business and art
47:40       Focus on Entrepreneurial Operating Systems
55:25         Motive         
01:04:30    Processes and System       
01:26:30    Future for Dan
01:29:05    Working with the right type of client
01:35:30    Dan’s Podcast
01:41:50    Rapid fire takeaways
01:46:20    Outro

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Are you a sign or print shop owner?
Join the Better Sign Shop Community - our exclusive Facebook group for shop owners and managers. Connect and learn from peers at https://www.facebook.com/groups/bettersignshopmastermind.