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Nathan and Nat dive deep into the intricacies of book cover design and the evolving publishing landscape. They share their personal experiences working with different designers and publishing houses, from DIY approaches to traditional publishing partnerships. Nathan details his current journey working with an art director to create the perfect cover brief, while Nat offers insights from his experiences with both Penguin Random House and independent publishing.

The discussion explores the importance of clear communication with designers, understanding genre expectations, and the surprising realities of how book covers are actually created. They also touch on some fascinating industry challenges, including the complexities of rights management and merchandising in traditional publishing deals.

The conversation wraps up with an interesting tangent into the world of AI and coding, highlighting how technology is rapidly changing both the writing and software development industries.

TIMESTAMPS

[00:04] The cover design process
[02:30] Finding and selecting cover designers
[05:23] Conveying genre through cover design
[07:44] Working with an art director
[10:31] Components of a creative brief
[16:18] Cover design directions
[28:51] Penguin Random House cover process
[33:15] Scribe's cover design process
[36:24] Using stock images in book cover design
[39:52] Cover art licensing and merchandise rights
[42:43] Changes in publishing deals and author revenue streams
[46:17] Updates on our books
[51:16] Wrap-up and next episode preview

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Nathan shares his experience working with Michael Braff, a seasoned editor known for his work on the Red Rising series. He walks through his methodical approach to finding the right editor, what the actual editing process entails, and the substantial investment of both time and money ($7,000) required for high-quality developmental editing.

The conversation dives deep into the specific feedback received, from enhancing world-building through precise word choice to the importance of "setting the stage" in each scene using dimension, direction, duration, and detail. Nathan and Nat discuss how this professional feedback not only improves the current manuscript but provides valuable insights for future writing projects. The episode also touches on the subsequent steps in the publishing process, including copy editing, proofreading, and interior book design.

Between writing updates, Nat shares some exciting news about recent positive reviews for his book Husk from both BookLife (Publishers Weekly) and Kirkus Reviews, offering a glimpse into the parallel journeys of two writers at different stages of their publishing careers.

TIMESTAMPS

[00:04] Nat announces having a new baby during podcast break
[02:19] Discussion begins about developmental editing process
[03:31] Introduction of editor Michael Braff and Red Rising series
[05:10] Decision process for investing in developmental editing
[07:13] Finding and selecting the right developmental editor
[10:15] Breakdown of developmental editing deliverables and pricing
[13:12] Editor's assessment of story structure and strengths
[16:05] Detailed feedback on word choice and descriptions
[18:35] The four D's of scene setting: dimension, direction, duration, detail
[22:39] Prioritizing editing work and revision strategy
[27:55] Discussion of copy editing and proofreading importance
[30:23] Decision on additional beta readers
[33:28] Book sales updates and marketing discussion
[34:57] Review feedback from BookLife and Publishers Weekly
[37:14] Timeline update for upcoming book releases

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Nathan and Nat tackle one of the biggest challenges facing aspiring authors: how to financially sustain yourself while pursuing a writing career. They explore various strategies writers use to make ends meet before their books become profitable, drawing from their own experiences and those of successful authors.

They discuss the realities of the publishing industry, including the daunting statistics about author earnings and the fierce competition in the market. They share practical approaches like maintaining a day job while writing nights and weekends, building multiple revenue streams through consulting and newsletters, and strategically saving money to take time off for writing. The conversation also delves into the differences between fiction and nonfiction publishing, including their distinct paths to profitability and marketing strategies.

TIMESTAMPS

[00:00] Affording a writing career
[01:28] Publishing contracts and financial realities of writing
[02:43] Writing while working a full-time job
[05:44] Managing multiple revenue streams as a writer
[07:23] Client work and consulting
[11:02] Writing as a parent
[15:19] Saving money first to focus on writing full-time
[22:04] Balancing writing for work vs creative writing
[29:20] Fiction vs nonfiction writing income potential
[31:28] Sales conversion differences between fiction and nonfiction
[33:14] Book marketing and bulk purchase strategies
[37:05] Getting stuck on your first book
[39:33] Writing multiple books before success
[42:41] Updates on current writing projects

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Dive into a mind-bending exploration of memory, time, and identity with Blake Crouch's "Recursion." Nat and Nathan dissect this thrilling sci-fi novel that pushes the boundaries of what's possible when memories become more than just recollections. They examine how Crouch masterfully expands the scope of his story from an intimate character study into a global crisis, while maintaining the emotional core that keeps readers invested.

The hosts compare "Recursion" to Crouch's previous work "Dark Matter," discussing how this new novel showcases his evolution as a writer and his ability to handle complex scientific concepts without losing the human element. They explore the book's unique take on time travel, its handling of consequences and causality, and how it differs from typical entries in the genre. Whether you're a fan of sci-fi thrillers or simply enjoy well-crafted narratives that make you think, this spoiler-free discussion (with a clearly marked spoiler section) will help you decide if "Recursion" should be your next read.

TIMESTAMPS

[00:00] Recursion by Blake Crouch
[01:53] Time travel stories
[03:31] Improvements from Dark Matter to Recursion
[04:23] Analysis of antagonists
[04:57] Character development and emotional core
[06:03] Philosophical elements in time travel plot
[07:08] Critique of scientific resolution and story ending
[08:41] Analysis of opening hook and False Memory Syndrome setup
[09:54] How time travel mechanics are introduced
[11:38] How the story grows
[15:04] Examining Slade's motivations and character inconsistencies
[22:28] Critique of romance subplot development
[25:39] Impact of Barry's death on narrative structure
[28:03] Final recommendations and comparison to Dark Matter
[30:03] Updates on our writing projects

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Nat takes us behind the scenes of launching his new novel "Husk," sharing detailed insights about the realities of self-publishing. From navigating Amazon's complex ranking system to experimenting with different sales channels, Nat breaks down the numbers and strategies that went into his launch week, which saw over 500 copies sold across multiple formats.

The conversation explores the intricate balance between direct sales and Amazon distribution, the impact of pre-orders, and the vital role of early reader reviews. Nat and Nathan dive deep into the various marketing approaches available to indie authors, from professional review services to social media advertising, while discussing the challenges of building long-term momentum beyond the initial launch spike.

TIMESTAMPS

[00:00] Intro
[00:25] Launch sales numbers
[01:37] Kindle vs physical book sales ratio
[02:56] Kindle Unlimited pages read and royalties
[05:08] Breakdown of profits
[06:14] Hardback bundle pre-orders and early reviews
[07:29] Amazon category rankings and launch challenges
[11:18] Goodreads 100-book giveaway campaign
[13:25] Professional review services
[15:14] Getting reviews post-publication
[18:59] Amazon and social media advertising
[23:20] TikTok account hack and social media challenges
[27:36] Pre-order strategy effectiveness
[29:02] Key lessons learned about book marketing
[32:05] Fiction vs nonfiction launch experiences
[34:53] Balancing writing and marketing

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With Nat's sci-fi novel "Husk" just days from release, Nathan and Nat explore the strategic decisions and emotional rollercoaster of bringing a book into the world. From choosing the right Amazon categories to maximize visibility, to the delicate balance of pricing and promotion strategies, the episode offers fascinating insights into modern book marketing.

The discussion reveals the careful thought that goes into every aspect of a book launch - from pre-order bundles and signed copies sold directly through the author's website, to timing social media posts and newsletter campaigns for maximum impact. The hosts also touch on broader industry trends, including the evolving relationship between traditional and self-publishing, and how authors can leverage different platforms and formats to reach readers.

TIMESTAMPS

[00:00] Husk book launch timing
[00:16] Recursion by Blake Crouch
[07:02] Altered Carbon
[10:14] Preorder sales for Husk
[11:31] Book pricing to maximize profit margins
[13:24] Marketing strategies for a self-published launch
[14:28] Analysis of successful book marketing
[22:38] Amazon category optimization strategy
[31:44] Launch week marketing and email strategy
[38:33] Future projects and Nat's paternity leave plans

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Nathan and Nat dive deep into Christopher Ruocchio's epic science fantasy novel "Empire of Silence." They explore the book's unique blend of science fiction and fantasy elements, comparing it to works like "Dune" and "Name of the Wind." The hosts discuss how the novel's deliberate pacing and rich world-building may challenge some readers, but ultimately leads to a compelling payoff.

The conversation touches on key aspects of the novel's construction, from its intricate use of language and religious themes to its character development and narrative structure. The hosts highlight how the story truly comes alive in its final third, when the protagonist's journey takes a dramatic turn. They also explore the broader implications of writing a series opener that requires patience from readers, and how this affected the book's initial reception.

As a bonus, the episode begins with updates about Nat's own book launch for "Husk," offering listeners a behind-the-scenes look at the self-publishing process. The hosts conclude by announcing their next book club selection, "Recursion" by Blake Crouch, setting up an intriguing contrast to their current discussion.

TIMESTAMPS

[00:00] Husk book release
[04:03] Challenges of self-publishing vs traditional publishing
[04:49] How to get book reviews
[09:17] Empire of Silence book discussion
[11:18] Empire of Silence vs. other sci-fi/fantasy series
[14:11] Character development and story structure analysis
[20:18] Science fiction vs fantasy genre elements
[35:14] Analysis of religion and the Chantry in the book
[44:10] Discussion of key characters and squad dynamics
[50:06] Target audience for the book
[54:14] Next book club selection: Recursion by Blake Crouch

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Nathan discusses his decision to launch a paid version of his newsletter Worldbuilders, drawing inspiration from George Saunders' Story Club. He shares his vision for creating valuable content focused on long-form literature analysis and storytelling, including monthly workshops featuring guest experts from various corners of the writing world.

The hosts explore the current landscape of paid newsletters, examining successful models and discussing the advantages of platforms like Substack. They dive into the challenges and opportunities of monetizing writing through subscriptions, debating different approaches to pricing and content strategy. The conversation also touches on the broader ecosystem of author platforms, book marketing, and the complexities of balancing free versus paid content.

TIMESTAMPS

[00:00] Starting a paid newsletter[02:04] George Saunders' Story Club[07:10] Subscription vs one-time payment models
[11:26] What to write about in a paid newsletter
[18:06] Winning Substack's category system
[21:34] Novella progress and word count goals
[24:04] Nat's plans to transition newsletter focus to books
[29:16] Challenges with international shipping and taxes
[33:17] Upcoming episodes

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Nat shares his experience receiving the first paperback copies of his upcoming sci-fi novel, Husk, and discusses his strategic approach to pricing across different formats - from hardcover to ebook to audiobook. The conversation explores how Amazon's various platforms, including Kindle Unlimited, shape modern publishing decisions and reader behavior.

The hosts also discuss their evolving thoughts on different marketing channels, with some surprising insights about where fiction readers actually hang out online. While Twitter may be losing its appeal, platforms like Instagram's "Bookstagram" community are proving invaluable for connecting with readers.

TIMESTAMPS

[00:00] Husk paperbacks[04:43] Discord communities for authors and readers[05:38] Sending advance book copies[07:18] Targeting different audience sizes on Instagram[11:06] Book pricing strategy[14:03] How Amazon discounts books[17:55] Kindle Unlimited strategy and benefits[22:04] Potential downsides of Kindle Unlimited[26:42] Process of sending out initial paperbacks[31:14] Marketing to the Bookstagram community[32:07] Hardcover shipping logistics for Nat's book store[35:35] Amazon's impact on independent publishing[42:14] Empire of Silence book discussion

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Nat and Nathan discuss strategies for building an audience as authors, focusing on the importance of understanding the difference between attracting writers and readers. They explore content strategies, the significance of engagement, and the role of social media in audience building.

The conversation also delves into the effectiveness of short-form video content, leveraging reviews for book success, and the challenges of converting social media followers into newsletter subscribers.

Chapters

00:00 Building an Author Audience

03:02 Cover Design Insights

03:08 Exploring Minimalism in Book Design

05:49 Navigating the Novella Writing Process

08:58 Building an Audience: Writers vs. Readers

11:35 Content Strategy and Audience Engagement

14:49 The Importance of Niche in Content Creation

17:51 Learning from Successful Authors

21:01 The Role of Social Media in Author Branding

26:08 Navigating Content Success and Audience Engagement

28:17 Creating Consistent Content for Audience Growth

29:06 Batch Recording and Efficient Video Production

32:34 Balancing Professionalism and Casual Content

33:39 Leveraging Reviews for Book Launch Success

34:49 Strategies for Building an Audience on Social Media

39:10 Adapting Successful Strategies from Other Markets

40:58 Understanding Algorithms and Content Recommendations

43:16 Funneling Social Media Followers to Book Sales