Beyond GDP: The Social Progress Podcast

Brazil is ranked 52nd in the world for social progress but behind that number are 5,570 municipalities each fighting their own hidden crises. In this episode, Michael Green sits down with Melissa Wilm from IPS Brasil to uncover four on-the-ground stories of what happens when data meets real communities.

From two rival Brazilian capitals turning competition into collaboration, to a small Amazon town where malnutrition had nothing to do with healthcare, to a health secretary who changed one thing and transformed his entire community, to a city that discovered its data had been wrong all along this is what evidence-based policymaking actually looks like in practice.

The 2026 IPS Brasil Social Progress Index launches in May. Explore the full data tool at ipsbrazil.org.br

00:00:00 Introduction — Brazil's place in global social progress
00:01:11 Meet Melissa Wilm & IPS Brasil
00:01:36 Brazil's social progress profile: success and unfulfilled potential
00:02:33 How the index works across 5,570 municipalities
00:05:15 Case Study 1: Curitiba vs Belo Horizonte — healthy competition
00:10:15 Case Study 2: Capinzal do Norte — the food crisis hiding in the farmland
00:13:19 Small town, global relevance — the ultra-processed food crisis
00:15:47 Case Study 3: Água Azul do Norte — the clinic that changed everything
00:17:46 Case Study 4: Abaetetuba — when the data was wrong all along
00:20:59 The 2026 IPS Brasil index — what's coming in May
00:21:30 Prediction
00:24:10 Wrap-up & where to find IPS Brasil

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Is the loneliness epidemic a policy failure?

In this episode of the Beyond GDP Podcast, Michael Green speaks with Kim Samuel, founder of the Belonging Forum, about the growing crisis of social isolation, and why belonging may be the missing metric in public policy.

While GDP measures economic output, it tells us little about whether people feel included, represented, or connected. 

New data from the Belonging Barometer shows:

• 21% of people don’t feel they belong
• 41% of people with disabilities report frequent loneliness
• Young women report the highest levels of isolation

We explore:

• The difference between loneliness and belonging
• Why social isolation is rising globally
• Climate anxiety, geopolitics, and generational uncertainty
• Whether technology strengthens or weakens belonging
• Why belonging may become a policy priority within five years

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Most of our societal problems stem from an outdated dominance-based system and the solution isn’t more of the same. For episode 1 of season 2 of Beyond GDP: The Social Progress Podcast, our host Michael Green sits down with Riane Eisler, President of the Center for Partnership Systems, and distinguished scientist, futurist and author of The Chalice and the Blade and The Real Wealth of Nations. 

In this episode, we discuss the overlooked sectors that traditional economies ignore, including the household, natural, and volunteer economies, and how neglecting them perpetuates inequality and chaos. 

Perfect for leaders, change-makers, educators, and anyone interested in understanding the deep roots of societal change. Ancient societies, long erased from our history books, demonstrated partnership models that promoted peace and cooperation, so what can we learn about this? The stakes couldn’t be higher: If we ignore these insights, we risk ongoing regression into violent, hierarchical systems that threaten our survival. But if we embrace a partnership-centered approach, we unlock the potential for resilient communities, gender equality, and social progress.

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Michael Green, CEO of the Social Progress Imperative, explains the fundamental distinctions between the Social Progress Index and the Human Development Index, shedding light on how social and environmental factors are measured differently from traditional economic metrics.

Michael shares the origin and purpose of the Human Development Index introduced in 1990, its indicators, and its limitations. He provides insight into why the Social Progress Index assesses societal progress.

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Over the past year, Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) efforts have faced severe backlash, especially in the United States, prompting many organizations to quietly abandon their initiatives. Some claim “mission accomplished.” The data says otherwise.

In Episode 5 of Beyond GDP: The Social Progress Podcast, host Michael Green sits down with Elmira Bayrasli, former diplomat, author, professor, and CEO of Interruptrr, to challenge the notion that DEI was simply a fleeting trend. They explore why inclusion is one of the world’s weakest areas of progress and why abandoning it now poses a severe risk to business and society.

Key takeaways:

• Shocking real-world examples, including failures during 9/11 and October 7th, where the deliberate rejection of women’s perspectives led to catastrophic outcomes.
• Why Elmira thinks the US has made it uniquely difficult for women to rise to the presidency compared to other countries.
• How diverse teams are better at lowering risk and anticipating what could go wrong.
• Elmira shares data on women’s representation in media and policy. 
• Elmira details why she started Interruptrr.

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The world got Ukraine wrong. Why was Ukraine underestimated and Russia overestimated for decades? It’s not just a military question, it's a social progress story.

In this episode of Beyond GDP: The Social Progress Podcast, host Michael Green sits down with Orysia Lutsevych, Head of the Ukraine Forum at Chatham House, to reveal the surprising civic strength that has defined Ukraine's identity and fueled its resilience.

Before the invasion, data from the Global Social Progress Index showed Ukraine was performing well in translating economic growth into strong social outcomes. Lutsevych explains the historical and institutional secrets behind this success, and why the outcome of this war is foundational for shaping our entire global system.

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Let's explore Costa Rica's remarkable social progress and the factors contributing to its success. Our special guest, Jaime Garcia, discusses the historical context, the role of institutions, and the importance of education and health in driving social welfare. The conversation also addresses current challenges and the need for a more equitable distribution of social progress across the country. 

The insights shared highlight the significance of political stability, sustainability, and the potential lessons other countries beyond Latin America can learn from Costa Rica's experience.

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In this episode, we challenge the foundational purpose of modern business, asking a provocative question: Is your hard-earned pension money funding the very companies that undermine your long-term health and the stability of the planet? Michael Green, CEO of the Social Progress Imperative, is joined by Catherine Howarth, CEO of ShareAction, to expose this ultimate investment paradox, where the shareholders, the true owners of the world’s largest companies, are often not taken into consideration in the business decisionmaking process. 

We explore the "democratic gap" that prevents shareholders from enforcing accountability on issues like climate action and fair wages, discuss the collective failure of the financial community to shift capital away from polluting industries, and explore Catherine's confident prediction about the capitalist system for the coming decade. 

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What are the successes and challenges of Philanthrocapitalism? We highlight the evolving role of wealthy individuals and businesses in addressing social and environmental issues, the impact of political changes on philanthropy, and the future of social progress in a rapidly changing world. The conversation focuses on the need for a shift away from GDP-centric thinking towards a more holistic approach to societal well-being. 

What will happen to the United States with Trump’s new economic policies? Is America close to social breakdown? As the world deals with pressing challenges such as geopolitical risks and the climate crisis, could we still rely on philanthrocapitalists to make a change? Special guest: Matthew Bishop, distinguished journalist, author, and social entrepreneur.

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Learn the shifting perspectives on economic growth and the limitations of GDP as a measure of national success. Discover the origins of GDP, Gross Domestic Product,  its role in guiding global economic development, and the reasons why it falls short in capturing true societal progress.

From the historical context of the Great Depression and Simon Kuznets to the modern challenges of sustainability and equity, Michael Green discusses why the global conversation is moving beyond GDP. Join us as we discuss the need for new metrics, like the Social Progress Index, that better reflect the values and well-being of our societies.

Find out more about how we collaborate with decision-makers and researchers to advance social progress across communities. Visit socialprogress.org

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Please follow and rate our show! 

Explore our work at https://www.socialprogress.org/

Interested in the Social Progress Index? Learn more. 

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