Beyond Oil: The Rise of Critical Metals

Episode Description:

In this episode, Impossible Metals hosts a timely and candid conversation with Frank Fannon, one of the most prominent voices on energy geopolitics and critical mineral strategy. Drawing on his July 2025 Congressional testimony, Frank unpacks how China’s dominance in mineral refining poses a national security risk, why the U.S. needs to reframe its mineral strategy around power—not just policy—and how seabed resources could offer a game-changing solution.

Guest:

Frank Fannon – Former U.S. Assistant Secretary of State for Energy Resources; CEO of Fannon Global Advisors

Host:

Oliver Gunasekara, Impossible Metals CEO and Co-Founder

Episode Timeline:

* China’s mineral dominance as non-kinetic warfare (0:00 – 3:20)

* Why the U.S. must treat critical minerals as a security—not just economic—issue (3:20 – 6:45)

* Outlining strategic tools: tariffs, offtake agreements, and financial instruments (6:45 – 10:55)

* Building public-private alliances and performance-based international partnerships (10:55 – 15:40)

* Permitting reform and why red states are leading domestic gigafactory development (15:40 – 19:10)

* How U.S. institutional financing (DFC, EXIM, DOE) must evolve (19:10 – 23:00)

* The case for seabed minerals and what’s changing in U.S. executive action (23:00 – 26:40)

* Global perspective: Germany, Russia, and learning from past energy dependencies (26:40 – 30:25)

* How the U.S. and allies can build a diversified, stable, and ethical supply chain (30:25 – 34:45)

* U.S. legal standing on UNCLOS and what needs to happen in international waters (34:45 – 37:50)

* Audience Q&A: demand reduction, recycling myths, deep sea mining and China's role (37:50 – 47:10)

Key Takeaways:

* China’s dominance in critical mineral processing is a strategic lever, not an accident. Frank emphasizes that Beijing’s actions are deliberate tools of economic statecraft designed to reduce Western leverage without firing a shot.

* The U.S. must shift from awareness to action. Awareness campaigns and convenings are not enough—only tangible investment, stockpiling, and structural reform will close the gap.

* Permitting reform is a linchpin for competitiveness. Delays of 10+ years undermine U.S. viability. States that offer fast, low-cost energy and transparent permitting—often red states—are now winning investment.

* Public financing tools need flexibility and teeth. Agencies like EXIM and DFC should not just fund “safe” projects—they must de-risk bold, strategic ventures through offtake agreements and first-mover backing.

* Seabed mining is no longer theoretical. Executive actions now open both domestic and international waters to exploration. The U.S. cannot afford to cede leadership here to China or remain stalled by treaty inaction.

* Recycling and ‘thrifting’ are helpful, but not enough. Mineral demand is simply migrating to new sectors like AI and cloud infrastructure; substitution is not a silver bullet.

* Deep sea mining may not benefit China as much as expected. While China dominates processing, it currently holds a minimal share of seabed extraction—offering a rare strategic opening for the U.S. and allies.

* Global alliances must be performance-based. The U.S. should prioritize countries that deploy capital and build facilities—not just sign diplomatic MOUs.

* We need to reduce reliance on single-source supply chains. Just as Germany learned with Russian gas, Western economies cannot afford to depend on China for minerals without serious consequences.

* The U.S. must act regardless of UNCLOS ratification. While not a party to the treaty, America still benefits from seabed access and should assert its rights proactively.

* Domestic projects must be financially sound from the start. The U.S. should not subsidize marginal plays but invest in globally competitive ventures with scalable economics.

* Investors must consider long-term national security risks. Chasing short-term margins without factoring in geopolitics will backfire. Sustainable sourcing is a competitive advantage, not a cost.

Links & Resources Mentioned:

* Frank Fannon’s Congressional Testimony (July 2025) link

* Frank Fannon’s statement

* Impossible Metals website

Welcome to the latest episode of Beyond Oil: The Rise of Critical Metals. In this episode, Holly Nielsen from Impossible Metals Marketing presents the company’s newly released Annual Report and shares key insights. The conversation then shifts to a live Q&A with CEO and Co-Founder Oliver Gunasekara, exploring in detail topics such as environmental impact, stakeholder engagement, and economic modeling for deep-sea mining.

Host:

* Oliver Gunasekara, CEO & Co-Founder of Impossible Metals

🕒 Episode Timeline

* Intro & Agenda Overview (00:00–00:00:18)

* Annual Report Highlights & Vision (00:00:18–00:01:20)

* Core Values & Responsible Metals (00:01:20–00:02:43)

* Year in Review: 2024 Company Milestones (00:02:43–00:06:31)

* ESG Focus: Environmental Impact (00:06:31–00:10:27)

* Minimizing Sediment Disruption (00:10:27–00:12:53)

* Technology & Biodiversity Protections (00:12:53–00:14:27)

* Social Responsibility & Stakeholder Engagement (00:14:27–00:17:20)

* Governance & Transparency Practices (00:17:20–00:18:48)

* Technology Roadmap: Eureka I to III (00:18:48–00:20:27)

* Live Q&A: (00:20:27–00:59:32)

* Environmental Impacts & Plume Modeling (00:20:27–00:24:00)

* Scalability & Economic Model Discussion (00:24:00–00:27:08)

* Stakeholder Representation Strategy (00:27:08–00:30:14)

* U.S. Policy & American Samoa Mining Context (00:30:14–00:36:01)

* Carbon Neutral Commitment & Offsetting (00:36:01–00:44:00)

* Market Dynamics & Geopolitics in Critical Metals (00:44:00–00:57:06)

* Programmable Robotics & Responsible Harvesting (00:57:06–00:59:32)

* Closing & Wrap-Up (00:59:32–End)

✅ Key Takeaways

* Mission-Driven Mining: Impossible Metals will harvest critical seabed metals sustainably using robotic technology that minimizes ecological disruption.

* Environmental Leadership: The Eureka system avoids sediment plumes, uses hovering robots, and leaves 60% of nodules undisturbed to protect biodiversity.

* Strong ESG Commitment: Their approach integrates transparency, stakeholder engagement, and rigorous governance.

* Scalable and Cost-Efficient: The Eureka system is modular and designed for efficient scaling, with lower costs than traditional land-based mining.

* Open to Scientific Oversight: Ongoing environmental baseline studies and programmable collection methods allow adaptive, cautious development.

* Regulatory Navigation: The team discusses upcoming opportunities and challenges with U.S. offshore mineral licensing and global geopolitics.

🔗 Links/Resources Mentioned

* 2024 Annual Report (Impossible Metals)

* Blog Post: How the Environmental Impact Assessment is a Keystone of Decision-Making in Deep-Sea Mining

* Public Data Repository (Google Drive)

* Economic Model & Cost Comparison

Episode Description:

Welcome to another episode of Beyond Oil: The Rise of Critical Metals. Join us as Tom LaTourrette and Fabian Villalobos from RAND Corporation review their report on seabed mining, covering the drivers, study design focused on nodule extraction, and potential implications, especially concerning battery metal demand and China's supply chain dominance. They also discuss seabed mining's potential supply, barriers compared to terrestrial mining, impact on terrestrial mining income for some countries, geopolitical workshop findings, the US government's limited influence in the ISA, and implications of the recent US executive order, culminating in recommendations for the US government.

Guests:

* Tom LaTourrette, Senior Physical Scientist at RAND, with expertise in energy, infrastructure, and public safety.

* Fabian Villalobos, Senior Researcher at the RAND Corporation, focused on US-China techno-economic competition, supply chains, the defense industrial base, and emerging technologies.

Host:

* Oliver Gunasekara, CEO & Co-Founder of Impossible Metals

Episode Timeline:

* Introduction to Seabed Mining (0:00 – 03:40)

* Study Design (03:40 – 07:55)

* Demand for Battery Metals and China's Dominance (07:55 – 10:31)

* Seabed Mining's Potential Supply and Barriers (10:31 – 19:11)

* Impact on Terrestrial Mining Income (19:11 – 21:47)

* Geopolitical Implications Workshop (21:47 – 30:57)

* US Government's Limited Influence in ISA (30:57 – 32:27)

* Potential Implications of the Executive Order (32:27 – 36:26)

* Recommendations for the US Government (36:26 – 42:18)

* Q&A Session (42.18 - 1:08:06)

Key Takeaways:

* Introduction to RAND’s Seabed Mining Study: The RAND Corporation has been studying seabed mining and geopolitical implications, focusing on polymetallic nodule extraction and processing.

* Growing Demand for Critical Minerals: There's a projected surge in demand for battery metals like nickel and cobalt by 2040, driven by the energy transition.

* China's Dominance in Supply Chains: China currently holds a significant lead in the global supply chains for critical minerals, from mining to processing.

* Seabed Mining as a Supply Diversifier: Seabed mining could offer an alternative supply source for critical minerals, potentially reducing reliance on terrestrial mining and diversifying supply chains.

* Challenges and Uncertainties of Seabed Mining: The industry faces hurdles such as high infrastructure costs, regulatory complexities, public perception issues, and the need for new processing technologies for nodules.

* Potential Negative Impact on Terrestrial Mining Economies: Case studies suggest seabed mining could reduce income for nations like the DRC (Democratic Republic of the Congo) due to declining cobalt prices outweighing potential ISA royalty payments.

* Geopolitical Complexities and International Governance: The emergence of a seabed mining industry introduces potential geopolitical tensions, requiring careful diplomatic engagement and monitoring of international institutions like the International Seabed Authority (ISA).

* US Government's Role and Recommendations: The US government, despite not being an ISA member, needs to strategically engage with allies, clarify policies, and invest in research and mapping to navigate the evolving landscape of seabed mining.

Links/Resources Mentioned

Rand research paper overviewImpossible Metals website

Episode Description

In this episode, we take a deep dive into the newly released Version 6 of Impossible Metals’ Techno-Economic Model. Jason Gillham, Co-founder and CTO/COO, walks through how the selective harvesting system for deep-sea mining is engineered for scalability, sustainability, and economic efficiency. Learn how Version 6 compares to earlier models, the assumptions behind the data, and what it means for the future of critical mineral supply and green energy infrastructure.

Guest

* Jason Gillham – CTO/COO & Co-founder

Moderator

* Holly Nielsen

🕒 Episode Timeline

* Intro & Welcome (0:00 – 1:00)

* Overview of V6 Economic Model (1:00 – 3:00)

* System Design & Environmental Considerations (3:00 – 5:00)

* Economic Objectives & System Scalability (5:00 – 6:00)

* Global Demand & Economic Comparison Metrics (6:00 – 8:30)

* Structure of the Techno-Economic Model (8:30 – 11:30)

* Eureka 3 vs. Eureka 4 Fleet Comparison (11:30 – 13:00)

* Alternative Cost Comparisons (13:00 – 16:30)

* Representative Project Assumptions (16:30 – 18:30)

* Financial Projections & NPV Outlook (18:30 – 20:00)

* Wrap-Up & Q&A Prompt (20:00 – end)

📌 Key Takeaways

* Impossible Metals’ V6 model presents a scalable and sustainable alternative for deep-sea mineral harvesting.

* Selective harvesting using fleets of AUVs significantly reduces habitat disturbance while improving operational efficiency.

📥 Resources & Links

* Blog with presentation. Links to the model are on page 4 of the presentation.

* Learn more at impossiblemetals.com

Welcome to another episode of Beyond Oil: The Rise of Critical Metals. Today, we're sharing this episode of The Elements of Deep Sea Mining, which features host Eric Young and Impossible Metals CEO and co-founder Oliver Gunasekara discussing how Impossible Metals designed its nodule mining technology from scratch to mitigate harm and avoid costs.

Find it on Spotify (https://lnkd.in/dU_kkhFB), Substack (https://lnkd.in/du-2wkCj), Apple (https://lnkd.in/df8D-aQX) YouTube (https://lnkd.in/dtpwunxC) or wherever you get your podcasts

This episode & its supporting content below is shared with permission.

Oliver’s team is bringing in AI, robotics, and a totally new approach that could reduce environmental impact, minimize sediment plumes, and skip a lot of the heavy infrastructure.

In this conversation, Oliver Gunasekara discusses the innovative system developed by Impossible Metals aimed at addressing the environmental challenges associated with deep sea nodule mining.

Oliver emphasizes the importance of modern technology in reducing the ecological impact of mining operations while ensuring the extraction of critical minerals necessary for the energy transition. The discussion also covers the regulatory landscape, the controversies surrounding deep sea mining, and the need for transparency and trust in the industry.

Check out their 3D Animation of the system (90 seconds video):

🔗 Resources & Links:

* Impossible Metals:

https://www.impossiblemetals.com

* FAQ : https://impossiblemetals.com/frequently-asked-questions/faqs-environmental-and-social-responsibility-for-deep-sea-mining/

* · Follow LinkedIn page for updates: https://www.linkedin.com/company/impossible-metals/

* Oliver Gunasekara on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gunasekara/

* · Blog: https://impossiblemetals.com/blog/why-will-deep-sea-mining-be-less-expensive-than-traditional-land-based-mining/

* · Blog: How the Environmental Impact Assessment is a Keystone of Decision-Making in Deep-Sea Mining

* · Impossible Metals new Podcast: Beyond Oil: The rise of critical minerals

* · Register for Webinar: Deep Dive into the Updated Techno Economic Model on Friday, March 21, 8:00 am PDT (11 am EDT)

Timestamps

00:00 – Introduction: Rethinking Deep Sea Mining01:20 – Oliver’s Background and Path to Deep Sea Mining03:09 – Why Deep Sea Mining? A Climate-Driven Pivot05:43 – Environmental Impact Starts with Technology07:28 – Designing from First Principles10:38 – The Core Architecture of Impossible Metals14:16 – The Buoyancy Engine: A New Kind of Mobility18:16 – Smart Launch and Recovery Explained20:34 – Operating in Rough Seas: More Days, Better Economics23:14 – Designing for Reduced Environmental Harm31:05 – Business Model: Partner or Operator?33:22 – Development Timeline and Readiness Level36:40 – Speed, Scale, and Collection Economics41:27 – Why the Cost Advantage is So Large46:34 – Processing Nodules: Can Existing Infrastructure Adapt?47:14 – Public Perception and Pushback50:31 – Moratorium vs Ban: Clarifying the Debate53:49 – Trade-Offs and Trust in Environmental Decision-Making57:30 – The Role of Trust and Transparency1:01:46 – Why the Spotlight on Deep Sea Mining Now?1:07:11 – Recycling, Substitution, and Demand Realities1:11:31 – Ethical Access, Global Equity, and the Climate Crisis1:13:06 – Competitors and the Long Game1:14:32 – Final Thoughts and Where to Learn More

Theme music Tamarack by Jesse Matas

Episode Description:

Welcome to another episode of Beyond Oil: The Rise of Critical Metals. Today, we're exploring the fascinating realm of seabed minerals and the complexities of onshore processing. Join us as we host Niels Verbaan, Technical Services Director at SGS, who shares his expertise on the various flowsheets, the importance of risk management, and the journey towards sustainable extraction of these valuable resources.

Guest:

* Niels Verbaan, Technical Services Director at SGS

Host:

* Oliver Gunasekara, CEO & Co-Founder of Impossible Metals

Episode Timeline:

* Introduction & Welcome (0:00 – 5:00)

* Background on Seabed Mineral Processing (5:00 – 10:00)

* Overview of Processing Flow Sheets (10:00 – 20:00)

* Challenges & Economic Considerations (20:00 – 30:00)

* Risk Factors & Pilot Testing (30:00 – 40:00)

* Material Handling & Operational Challenges (40:00 – 50:00)

* McNulty Ramp-Up Curves & Case Studies (50:00 – 1:05:00)

* Sustainability & Environmental Impact (1:05:00 – 1:15:00)

* Q&A Session (1:15:00 – 1:55:00)

* Closing Remarks & Next Steps (1:55:00 – End)

Key Takeaways:

* Nodule Composition and Processing Challenges: Niels explains the unique composition of CCZ nodules, the challenges in physical upgrading, and the need for hydrometallurgical processes.

* Overview of Processing Options: The discussion covers various chemical approaches including ammonia, chlorides, and nitrates, with a focus on smelting acid leaching (TMC), reductive acid leaching (GSR), and the cuprous ammonium leach (CUPRION) process.

* In-Depth Analysis of High-Pressure Acid Leaching (HPAL): Niels delves into the potential of HPAL as a mature technology for nodule processing, highlighting its benefits and addressing concerns around plant location and waste product management.

* The Critical Role of Piloting and Risk Management: The discussion emphasizes the importance of pilot plants in derisking projects, understanding material handling, and ensuring operational robustness.

* Analysis of Ramp-Up Curves: Niels presents a compelling analysis of ramp-up curves for various critical mineral projects, highlighting the challenges and the significance of thorough preparation and piloting.

* Sustainable Considerations: The discussion touches on the sustainability aspects of nodule processing compared to traditional mining, and Impossible Metals' commitment to net-zero operations.

Resources:

* SGS website

Contact:

* Niels Verbaan: [email protected]

Episode Description:

Join us as we dive into the ocean's depths with Jake Russell, CEO of Orpheus Ocean. In this episode, we explore Orpheus Ocean's innovative approach to deep ocean exploration using autonomous underwater vehicles (AUVs). Discover how Orpheus is changing the game for seabed surveys, environmental assessments, and mineral exploration.

Guest:

* Jake Russell, CEO of Orpheus Ocean

Host:

* Oliver Gunasekara

Episode Timeline:

* 00:00:00 - Introduction

* 00:05:00 - Jake Russell introduces Orpheus Ocean

* 00:10:00 - Orpheus Ocean's mission and team

* 00:15:00 - The Orpheus AUV

* 00:20:00 - Orpheus AUV's capabilities

* 00:25:00 - Comparing Orpheus AUVs to ROVs

* 00:30:00 - Q&A

* 00:55:00 - Closing remarks

Key Takeaways:

* Orpheus Ocean is developing autonomous underwater vehicles (AUVs) for deep ocean exploration.

* The Orpheus AUV is designed for flexibility, agility, and cost-effectiveness.

* Orpheus AUVs can be used for seabed surveys, environmental assessments, and mineral exploration.

* Orpheus Ocean offers a "robotics as a service" model.

Resources:

* Orpheus Ocean website

Contact:

* Jake Russell: [email protected]

To fulfill the requirements for testing Eureka III within the BGR contract area in the Clarion Clipperton Zone, a plume modeling study is submitted to the International Seabed Authority as part of the Environmental Impact Statement.

Tom Foster outlines the key assumptions and methodologies behind the sediment disturbance modeling for the proposed Eureka III test and presents the results of this analysis.

Impossible Metals CEO and Co-Founder Oliver Gunasekara recaps the Eureka II Demo Day results.

We have transparently published the Demo Day presentations and video

Oliver Gunasekara, CEO and Co-Founder of Impossible Metals, launches "Beyond Oil: The Rise of Critical Metals," a podcast exploring the critical role of minerals in the 21st century's electrification revolution. He discusses the growing demand for these metals, the challenges of sustainable sourcing, and how Impossible Metals is developing innovative underwater robotics to address these issues.

Key Talking Points Discussed

The Shift to Electrification: The 21st century's transition from oil to electrification.

The Importance of Critical Minerals: How critical minerals power all aspects of the electrification value chain (generation, transmission, storage, and use).

Growing Demand: The surge in demand for critical metals driven by electrification, sustainable energy, and AI data centers.  

Energy Security: The essential role of critical metals in energy security and economic development.

Reducing Foreign Dependence: The need for the U.S. to secure its own supply of critical minerals.

Impossible Metals' Technology: Introduction to Impossible Metals' autonomous underwater robots for sustainable seabed mineral harvesting.  

Environmental Impact: How AI and innovative technology minimize environmental impact and preserve marine habitats.

Guest

Oliver Gunasekara: CEO and Co-founder of Impossible Metals.  

Links/Resources Mentioned

Impossible Metals Website

Calls to Action

Subscribe to "Beyond Oil: The Rise of Critical Metals" on your preferred podcast platform.

Visit the Impossible Metals website to learn more about their technology and mission.

Contact Impossible Metals with suggestions for podcast topics and potential guests.

Episode Time Stamps

0:00 - Introduction and Podcast Overview

0:20 - The 21st Century and Electrification

0:40 - The Importance of Critical Minerals

1:10 - Growing Demand and Energy Security

1:35 - Impossible Metals Introduction

2:00 - Underwater Robot Technology and Environmental Impact

2:35 - Podcast Content Overview

3:00 - Webinar Content Conversion and Listener Engagement

3:30 - Call to Action and Conclusion