Beyond the Uniform

“And I think sometimes that was hard to admit to ourselves and to others in the military: it was a little scary looking out there at the job market and trying to figure out how am I going to make this work and make this happen? It is not that bad - and I would encourage folks to be confident in themselves and their skills. You've been equipped with the skills to land pretty much any job out there."
 – John Vardaman

John Vardaman is a Senior Construction Manager at Tesla. He started his career in the Construction Industry at DPR Construction, where he served as a Project Manager. While at DPR Construction, he earned his Masters in Sustainable Design and Construction at Stanford University. In the military, John served as a Human Intelligence Officer in the Marine Corps, and graduated from the US Naval Academy.

In this conversation, we cover a lot of topics, including:

• How John used multiple recruiters over the course of a year to find his ideal job
• What it's like to be a Project Manager, and how the military prepares you for this role
• The benefits of pursuing advanced education once you have civilian working experience
• How to explain your background to an employer in terms that will resonate with them
• How to approach the job search with confidence and humility
• And much, much more…

• Listen to it on iTunes.
• Stream by clicking here.
• Download as an MP3 by right-clicking here and choosing “save as.”

QUESTION OF THE DAY: How can I make these episodes more valuable to active duty military personnel considering transitioning to the civilian world? Please let me know in the comments.

Scroll below for links and show notes…

• DPR Construction
• John mentions working with three recruiting groups, one of which is the Lucas Group

• [2:00] John's Background
• [2:48] Making the decision to leave the Marine Corps
• [4:54] Evaluating whether or not to join the Reserves
• [6:30] Choosing his first job, and working with Recruiters (and the pros and cons of Recruiters)
• [9:18] Starting to work with Recruiters one year from separation and the advantages of more time for interviews
• [12:30] What drew John to Construction and Project Management
• ** [13:20] John does an amazing job explaining his past as it would help in a Project Management role. I thought this was a great, tangible example of how to sell your background for ones desired role
• [16:20] John explains how he would explain his military background in a Project Management role
• [19:27] Day-to-day life of a Project Manager in the Construction industry
• [22:40] Where John felt ahead of his peers based on his military service... and where he felt behind
• [25:48] The most surprising aspect of John's transition to life as a civilian
• [31:23] How leadership outside of the military differs from leadership in the military
• [34:18] Pursuing a Master's at Stanford while working, and how John benefited from having experience before pursuing advanced education
• [39:37] John's experience working at Tesla, and how great it is to work at a company aligned with your values
• [44:44] Final words of advice for military personnel and other veterans

"We underestimate the incredible experience and leadership skills that we bring to the table, and I think that veterans don't appreciate the magnitude of it when they're in the thick of it."
– Tom Spahn

Tom Spahn has spent time in his civilian career as both a Corporate Lawyer at Sullivan & Cromwell, as well as a Management Consultant at McKinsey & Co. He has a collection of degrees - he received his JD from Stanford Law School while also obtaining MS in Management Science & Engineering at Stanford at the same time. He also holds a Masters in Engineering Management from Old Dominion University. Tom graduated from the Naval Academy, served on submarines with the crew of the USS Chicago (SSN 721).

In this interview we discuss:

• Why Tom chose to remain in the Navy Reserves
• Advice for veterans considering Law School
• What day-to-day life is like as a Corporate Lawyer and as a Management Consultant
• What the typical career path looks like for both Corporate Lawyers and Management Consultants
• How the military prepared him for Corporate Law work... and where he had to catch up
• What it's like to interview for a Management Consulting firm
• Signs that you may like a career in Management Consulting... and indications that you might not enjoy it
• And much, much more…

• Listen to it on iTunes.
• Stream by clicking here.
• Download as an MP3 by right-clicking here and choosing “save as.”

QUESTION OF THE DAY: How can I make these episodes more valuable to active duty military personnel considering transitioning to the civilian world? Please let me know in the comments.

Scroll below for links and show notes…

• Kaplan Law School prep

• [1:44] - Background
• [3:22] - Deciding to leave the Navy
• [4:08] - Choosing to remain in the Reserves
• [6:37] - Choosing to get another Master's Degree, and choosing Law School
• [8:12] - How the military prepared him for Law School... and where he had to catch up
• [10:45] - Advice for those considering Law School
• [12:15] - Why Tom chose Corporate Law
• [14:31] - Applying to Law School, and applying to a Corporate Law Firm
• [19:15] - Day-to-day life as a Corporate Lawyer
• [23:00] - How the military prepared him for Corporate Law work... and where he had to catch up
• [23:47] - What a typical career path looks like for a Corporate Lawyer
• [25:40] - Choosing to switch to Management Consulting
• [27:10] - What it's like to interview for a Management Consulting firm
• [32:45] - Day-to-day life as a Management Consultant
• [37:43] - What a typical career path looks like for a Management Consultant
• [41:18] - Signs that you may like a career in Management Consulting... and indications that you might not enjoy it
• [46:34] - The biggest surprise about the transition to civilian life
• [48:18] - Don't sell yourself short as a veteran

"I think military people assume that when they get out the military their skills and abilities are going to put them in a job that is paying them more than when they were in the military. I think that's a misconception - once they get out they have to realize they have to prove themselves again. That could take one month or four jobs, but you have to realize that your'e starting fresh."
– Noel Gonzalez

Noel Gonzalez - grew up in Cuba, emigrated to the United States, and eventually became the Commanding Officer of the USS Cheyenne (SSN 773), where he was awarded the Meritorious Service Medal. While on Active Duty, Noel founded three different startups. The most recent - and one we discuss most during the interview - is a company built to help Veterans in their transition to civilian life (SkillMil). In this interview we discuss:

• The mistakes Noel made and learned from in starting his first two companies
• Steps that active duty military personnel can do right now to fill in their business knowledge gaps
• What day-to-day life is like as an entrepreneur
• The importance of mentors and coaches as part of the transition process
• How leadership outside of the military differs from leadership within the military
• And much, much more…

• Listen to it on iTunes.
• Stream by clicking here.
• Download as an MP3 by right-clicking here and choosing “save as.”

QUESTION OF THE DAY: How can I make these episodes more valuable to active duty military personnel considering transitioning to the civilian world? Please let me know in the comments.

Scroll below for links and show notes…

• Stanford Ignite - also there is a Veterans Ignite every summer
• Sloan MIT Online Courses - all online courses, easy to understand
• SkillMil - help veterans translate their experience in the military to employers in the civilian world
• SRI International - helping make lives healthier, better, and more productive
• Jimmy Sopko interview - I reference this as an example of a veteran who rolled up his sleeves, took a pay cut, and worked his way up in an organization

• [2:15] - From Cuba to Commanding Officer of the USS Cheyenne, Noel's background
• [4:13] - The mistakes Noel made and learned from in starting his first two companies
• [5:42] - Where Noel felt he was most behind his civilian counterparts in starting a company
• [7:02] - Advice on ways to fill in business knowledge gaps while in the military
• [10:37] - How Noel started his third company, SkillMil
• [12:28] - How SkillMil helps veterans
• [17:48] - What day-to-day life is like as an entrepreneur
• [20:55] - Common misconceptions about civilian life
• [25:00] - The importance of mentors and coaches as part of the transition process
• [27:21] - How leadership outside of the military differs from leadership within the military
• [28:24] - Final advice to those on active duty

“As you start to make this transition, -asking for advice is the smart move. Thinking that you have everything figured out or that you're going to be bothering someone learning about what they're doing that's the fool's road. I would urge people to not be scared of reaching out to people - if you don't, you're hurting yourself."
 – Taylor Justice

Taylor Justice is the Co-Founder and Chief Business Officer at Unite Us, a start-up that connects citizens with local coordinated services. Based in New York, Unite Us has raised over $6M in venture funding, and over 20 employees. After attending the U.S. Military Academy and serving for over a year as an Infantry Officer in the Army, Taylor was unexpectedly military disqualified from the Army. He faced his transition to civilian life years before he expected it, with no peers or classmates from whom to seek advice. Through a meticulous approach to reaching out to others, Taylor landed his first job in the Medical Devices industry, and then transitioned to the world of tech. While attending Columbia Business School he met his co-founder, and launched Unite Us.

In this conversation, we cover a lot of topics, including:

• An unexpected departure from the Army, and navigating a career search before his peers
• Using a systematic email process to gain information and his first job
• The advantages of client support functional roles and sales roles
• What it's like to start and grow a startup
• Advice for other veterans seeking to start their own business
• Not being afraid to ask advice from anyone and everyone as a means of learning
• And much, much more…

• Listen to it on iTunes.
• Stream by clicking here.
• Download as an MP3 by right-clicking here and choosing “save as.”

QUESTION OF THE DAY: How can I make these episodes more valuable to active duty military personnel considering transitioning to the civilian world? Please let me know in the comments.

Scroll below for links and show notes…

• Higher Echelon
• Columbia Business School
• Unite Us

• [1:38] Background
• [2:40] An unexpected separation from the Army
• [8:40] The most helpful resources in his initial job search
• [14:07] Advice for structuring an outreach process as part of a job search
• [15:48] How the military most prepared and least prepared him for an Account Executive and Sales role
• [18:50] The starting point of founding Unite Us
• [22:25] Advice on finding and vetting a potential co-founder
• [24:15] Whether to gain experience prior to starting a company, or do it straight out of the military
• [29:12] The day-to-day life of starting a company
• [33:30] Common misconceptions that military personnel have about starting a company
• [38:25] How military personnel can benefit from Unite Us
• [44:05] Biggest advice - don't be afraid to ask for help

Timothy Avery faced his transition to civilian life much earlier than anticipated, and found himself - far ahead of his peer set - having to decide what to do. Initially, he found his way to Management Consulting, where he worked with both BearingPoint and Booz Allen Hamilton. However, after further consideration, he navigated his way to a doctoral program in clinical psychology (i.e., Doctorate of Psychology, or PsyD). In all my interviews, one of the most commonly cited pieces of advice from veterans is to make sure that "you know yourself as you prepare for your job search." Tim does an exceptional job of breaking down practical ways in which you can do this.

In this conversation, we cover a lot of topics, including:

• How Tim unexpectedly found himself transitioning to civilian life...twice
• An overview of the Management Consulting industry and the key players
• What day-to-day life is like as a consultant
• How he transitioned into a PsyD/PhD program
• What day-to-day life is like as a PsyD student
• His advice for how to better understand what will make you happy
• And much, much more…
  • Listen to it on iTunes.
  • Stream by clicking here.
  • Download as an MP3 by right-clicking hereand choosing “save as.”

QUESTION OF THE DAY: How can I make these episodes more valuable to active duty military personnel considering transitioning to the civilian world? Please let me know in the comments.

Scroll below for links and show notes…

Selected Links from the Episode

• Recruiters Mentioned: The Lucas Group, Cameron-Brooks
• Consulting Firms mentioned: Ernst & Young (EY), Deloitte, KPMG, McKinsey & Co., Bain & Co., Boston Consulting Group, Booz Allen Hamilton
• Book recommendation: What Color is Your Parachute
• American Psychology Association conference
• The Yellow Ribbon Program
• If any veteran ever feels in distress, please call:800-273-TALK, 1 if military / veteran
  • Can text as well

Show Notes

• [2:23] Background
• [3:58] An unexpected transition to civilian life...twice
• [5:45] How the Consulting industry supported the Naval Reserves
• [8:34] Researching possible careers and deciding on Management Consulting
• [13:25] Management Consulting firms where Veterans should consider applying
• [15:53] A day in the life of a consultant
• [21:18] Travel and Consulting Work
• [22:29] How life compared between BearingPoint and Booz Allen Hamilton
• [22:59] Switching to advanced education in Psychology
• [27:47] The process of starting a PsyD/PhD
• [33:15] Planning ahead for transitions...they take longer than you'd think
• [36:40] A day in the life of a PsyD student
• [40:50] Advice for increasing self-knowledge as you approach your job search
• [52:50] Advice for all veterans

“Being able to work with deadlines and under pressure, attention to detail...these little things add up dramatically to put you in a position to do well [in the Civilian world]."
 – Alex Chivers

Alex Chivers served as a Non-Commissioned Officer in the US Army, where was part of the elite Army Rangers. During his time in the Army, Alex deployed multiple times to Afghanistan as part of Operation Enduring Freedom. After leaving the Army, Alex was accepted to Dartmouth College, routinely ranked as one of the top ten colleges in the country. While at Dartmouth, Alex held internships in the Investment Banking world with both Barclays and Perella Weinberg Partners, as well as an internship at the US House of Representatives. Alex has also worked as an Ambassador for Service 2 School, helping other veterans get into college.

In this conversation, we cover a lot of topics, including:

• His decision to leave the Army.
• How a conversation on Reddit helped him get into Dartmouth
• His work with Service 2 School, and advice on applying to college
• Common mistakes he sees veterans make in their transition to civilian life
• An overview of the Investment Banking world
• And much, much more…

• Listen to it on iTunes.
• Stream by clicking here.
• Download as an MP3 by right-clicking here and choosing “save as.”

QUESTION OF THE DAY: How can I make these episodes more valuable to active duty military personnel considering transitioning to the civilian world? Please let me know in the comments.

Scroll below for links and show notes…

• Service 2 School - FREE coaching for any military veterans to get into your ideal undergrad or graduate institution
  • Veritas Prep Complete GMAT Course Set - 12 Books
  • Complete GMAT Strategy Guide Set (Manhattan Prep GMAT Strategy Guides)
• Service 2 school's MBA application guide
• American Corporate Partners: free assistance to pair veterans with someone in a desired career field

• [2:10] Army Rangers, Darthmouth, and Alex's background
• [3:10] Deciding to leave the Army
• [4:31] How far in advance Alex started to plan
• [6:35] Deciding between college vs. straight to industry
• [7:45] Preparing financially for the transition to civilian life
• [9:55] How Alex get into Dartmouth
• [13:10] How a Reddit forum helped him get into college
• [15:35] Advice for college applications
• [18:36] Common misconceptions Alex sees when people are applying to college and transitioning to civilian life
• [23:15] How the Army put Alex ahead... and where he felt behind his classmates
• [27:20] Additional resources to consider
• [28:31] Interning in the Investment Banking world
• [30:50] Interning at the US House of Representatives
• [32:22] What's next for Alex after Dartmouth
• [35:30] Final advice to those on Active Duty

“In terms of the highest tangible ROI, an MBA is hard to beat as a veteran, especially for someone like me coming from a non-technical background."
 – David Lee

David Lee will be attending the Stanford Graduate School of Business next September after over six years of service in the US Marine Corps. He has served as the Director of MBA and Other Graduate Programs at Service 2 School, a free resource to help veterans get into their dream education program. As a result, he has's got a wealth of knowledge for veterans considering going to school once they get out of the military. A NROTC graduate of the University of Michigan, David was academically #1 of 600 at the Officer Candidate School.

In this conversation, we cover a lot of topics, including:

• His decision to leave the Marine Corps
• Analyzing grad school problems, their fit, and potential return
• How Service 2 School provided free help in his application process
• Surprises in the grad school admission process
• Advice to those considering applying to schools once they leave the military
• And much, much more…

• Listen to it on iTunes.
• Stream by clicking here.
• Download as an MP3 by right-clicking here and choosing “save as.”

QUESTION OF THE DAY: How can I make these episodes more valuable to active duty military personnel considering transitioning to the civilian world? Please let me know in the comments.

Scroll below for links and show notes…

• Service 2 School - FREE coaching for any military veterans to get into your ideal undergrad or graduate institution
  • Veritas Prep Complete GMAT Course Set - 12 Books
  • Complete GMAT Strategy Guide Set (Manhattan Prep GMAT Strategy Guides)
• Service 2 school's MBA application guide
• Warrior Scholar Project - Immersive one and two week academic workshops or "bootcamps" provided free of charge to enlisted veterans and held at some of America's top colleges and universities.
• Four Block - Military veteran resources
• Breakline - career transition resources for veterans interested in Tech
• The Honor Foundation:  Transition Readiness Institute created exclusively for Navy SEALs and the U.S. Special Operations community.
• Stanford ignite - social entrepreneruship program for post 9/11 veterans

• [1:50] Background
• [3:00] Making the decision to leave the military
• [4:30] Researching potential options
• [5:50] Choosing to remain in the Reserves
• [6:30] Choosing graduate school as a means to shortcut impact
• [8:30] Service 2 School and how they can help with college & grad school admission
• [9:54] Surprising in the MBA application process
• [11:10] Choosing schools for application...and which to accept
• [11:50] Advice on the application process
• [13:45] A timeline for applying to business schools
• [15:00] Resources for GMAT preparation
• [15:35] Life while applying to grad school
• [16:30] Extracurricular activities while on active duty
• [17:45] What he's learned from working at Service 2 School
• [19:15] Common veteran questions and misconceptions about grad school
• [22:45] Final words of advice

“Asking for help sometimes for some people implies weakness. If there's one thing I did that was semi-smart it was realizing that I wasn't going to be able to do it on my own and asking for help from those who were closest to me and had the most vested interest in my success."
 – Will Grannis

Will Grannis is the Managing Director of the Cloud CTO Office at Google. Since his time as an officer in the Army, he's had an incredible career prior to Google, including: Founding a company that was acquired after just two years; serving as the Chief Technology Officer for L-3 Communications, a company with over 38,000 employees worldwide; leading Boeing's Advanced Information Solutions team.

In this conversation, we cover a lot of topics, including:

• His decision to leave the Army.
• How he leveraged his closest relationships to land his first civilian job
• How the Army most prepared him for his first job, and where he had to catch up to his peers
• How overhearing a conversation in an adjacent cubicle changed his career
• The advantages of working in a small office environment
• How valuable industry experience is prior to pursuing an advanced degree
• What it's like to work through the first part of a week, hop on a plane and attend grad school, fly back home and start the whole cycle over again
• And much, much more…

• Listen to it on iTunes.
• Stream by clicking here.
• Download as an MP3 by right-clicking here and choosing “save as.”

QUESTION OF THE DAY: How can I make these episodes more valuable to active duty military personnel considering transitioning to the civilian world? Please let me know in the comments.

Scroll below for links and show notes…

• Comtech Mobile Datacom Corporation
• Boeing
• Wharton Executive MBA Program

• [1:45] Background info
• [3:04] Approaching the decision to leave the Army
• [5:40] Active duty to IRR... and then to the Reserves
• [7:51] The Telecom industry and a role as Program Manager
• [10:19] How Will approached his job start when he first left the Army
• [14:38] Day-to-day life in Will's first civilian job in the Telecom Industry, and why small companies are so valuable for veterans
• [20:58] How the Army was a competitive advantage for Will... and where he had to catch up
• [22:52] The biggest surprise Will faced when he transitioned to civilian life
• [25:35] Making the transition to Boeing after one year as a civilian
• [32:31] Pursuing an MBA at Wharton while working at Boeing
• [36:15] How to consider grad school or straight to industry and what degree to pursue
• [38:48] Final advice to anyone on Active Duty

“Service 2 School is a free service for Veterans; we pair you with someone from your background...and in order to get into best school possible for you, we help you TRAIN: that's taking you through Test prep, Resume review, Application & essay assistance, Interviewing and Networking."
 – Tim Hsia

Of every interview I've done so far, this it the one I would most recommend to every single military veteran - enlisted and officer. Tim Hsia received his JD and MBA from Stanford after serving as a Captain in the US Army. While at Stanford, Tim co-founded two companies; one sold to the Stanford Daily, and the second is still in operation. This organization - Service 2 School - is a free resource for all veterans to help them get into the best school (college or grad school) for them.

In this conversation, we cover a lot of topics, including:

• His decision to leave the US Army
• Why he chose to get two degrees at the same time, and which one he would recommend to other veterans
• The power of internships to help you find your ideal job
• How Service 2 School will help you find the right school for you and get in
• Common misconceptions he sees in veterans when considering schools
• What his time in the Venture Capital Industry was like
• And much, much more…

• Listen to it on iTunes.
• Stream by clicking here.
• Download as an MP3 by right-clicking here and choosing “save as.”

QUESTION OF THE DAY: How can I make these episodes more valuable to active duty military personnel considering transitioning to the civilian world? Please let me know in the comments.

Scroll below for links and show notes…

• Service 2 School - FREE coaching for any military veterans to get into your ideal undergrad or graduate institution
• Service 2 school's MBA application guide

• [1:54] Background
• [3:38] Choosing to leave the Army
• [5:18] Choosing a JD / MBA instead of directly to Industry
• [11:45] Getting an internship if you don't go to grad school
• [14:55] Taking a long-term view on your career
• [19:20] Starting Service 2 School to help veterans with college & grad school applications
• [24:45] How Service 2 School is the best free resource for Veterans on earth
• [31:57] Most common mistakes / misconceptions that military personnel have in their transition
• [36:45] Advice on whether or not to pursue education after transition from the military
• [39:43] Considering an Executive Education Program vs. a Traditional Program
• [42:11] An overview on Venture Capital from Tim's internship experience
• [47:00] The most surprising aspect about the transition from military life

“You can do an internship - not just through grad school - as a way to dip your toe in the water to see how you like that type of role and company. It’s a great way to give yourself that reflection time period if you’r not going to go to a grad school program."
 – Shaunnah Sopko

Shaunnah Sopko is a Product Quality Program Manager at Nest. She holds an MBA from the Stanford Graduate School of Business, an MS in Systems Engineering from the Naval Postgraduate School, and a BS in Systems Engineering from the US Naval Academy. Shaunnah served six years as an officer in the Surface Warfare community, where she served on the USS Shoup (DDG 86), Destroyer Squadron 9, and as the Flag Aide to the Superintendent of the US Naval Academy.

In this conversation, we cover a lot of topics, including:

• Her decision to leave the Navy
• Joining the Reserves through grad school and at work
• Advice for Business School appliations
• How the military prepared her for graduate school…and where she had to catch up  
• Overview of Product & Program Management
• Advice for Active Duty military personnel who want to pursue a career in Product & Program Management
• Recommended resources to prepare for your transition
• And much, much more…

• Listen to it on iTunes. [UPDATE WHEN LIVE]
• Stream by clicking here.
• Download as an MP3 by right-clicking here and choosing “save as.”

QUESTION OF THE DAY: How can I make these episodes more valuable to active duty military personnel considering transitioning to the civilian world? Please let me know in the comments.

Scroll below for links and show notes…

• Engineering Duty Officer (EDO)
• Nest
• Transition Assistance Program (TAP)

• [1:20] Background
• [3:15] - Weighing options on leaving the Navy
• [5:50] - Joining the Reserves through grad school and at work
• [7:15] - How Shaunnah’s company accommodated her Reserves time[10:10] - Pursuing a second master’s degree
• [11:24]  - Advice for Business School appliations
• [14:35] - How the military prepared her for graduate school…and where she had to catch up
• [18:07] - Overview of Product & Program Management
• [21:15] - Advice for Active Duty military personnel who want to pursue a career in Product & Program Management
• [24:52] - Interning at Apple
• [28:08] - Choosing Nest
• [29:38] - Advice for preparing for an interview
• [32:07] - Day-to-Day life as a Program Manager
• [40:33] - How the military prepared her for Program Management…and where she had to catch up
• [42:35] - Recommended resources to prepare for your transition
• [46:45] - Final advice for transition