Bid Out with Peter Haynes

In the first of a two-part podcast series, Brett Redfearn joins for a discussion on the emerging high-profile topic of tokenization of equity trading, a direction of travel that represents the most significant market structure change in the past 20-30 years. Brett is arguably the world's pre-eminent thought leader on tokenization, marrying his expertise from his time as global head of market structure for JP Morgan and at the SEC as Head of Trading and Markets with his more recent consulting work with crypto technology providers on the evolving space of tokenization. In this episode, we work through the basics of crypto technology including important terminology and use cases for investors and issuers beyond the surface examples of custody, 24-7 trading and ability to trade notional rather than fixed share amounts. In the latter part of this episode, we dig into the definition of a security, who regulates the various products in the US and how it might be possible for secondary market rules to differ between de-fi activity in equity tokens and traditional financial markets. Part 2 will follow in the next few days.

This podcast was recorded on November 26, 2025

Chapter Headings:

04:46    Crypto Products vs Crypto Technology

07:08    Stablecoins and Tokenization

15:56    Use Cases for Investors and Issuers

27:36    Determining What is a Security -The Howey Test

32:53    Who Regulates Tokenization in the US?

36:22    How Can Secondary Trading in Defi and Trad-fi Have Different Rules?

43:05    The Nasdaq-DTCC Announcement

For relevant disclosures, visit: tdsecurities.com/ca/en/legal#PodcastDisclosure. To learn more about TD Securities, visit us at tdsecurities.com or follow us on LinkedIn @tdsecurities.

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In Episode 75 of Bid Out, we take another peak inside TD's recent Portfolio Management and Market Structure Conference to a fireside chat with Grant Vingoe, CEO of the Ontario Securities Commission.  In this wide-ranging discussion, Grant provides his perspective on the role of the regulator in Canada's fight for global capital and listings, steps the CSA has taken to help Canada's capital markets, the Commission's approach to market structure in light of the SEC's libertarian agenda and finally its oversight of digital assets, prediction markets and tokenization of securities including equities.

This podcast was recorded on November 6, 2025.

Chapter Times:

01:23    The SEC's Libertarian Agenda

05:28    CBOE Views Canada as Non-Core

13:29    Responding to Trump's America First Agenda

21:00    Addressing Critical Views on ESG's Mission Creep

25:04    What Canada Can Do to Make IPOs Great Again?

33:54    Digital Asset Regulation in Canada

37:23    Tokenization, Sports Betting and Prediction Markets

43:07    When Does A Regulator Need to Protect Retail Investors?

For relevant disclosures, visit: tdsecurities.com/ca/en/legal#PodcastDisclosure. To learn more about TD Securities, visit us at tdsecurities.com or follow us on LinkedIn @tdsecurities.

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Episode 74 comes at you from inside the 26th Annual TD Securities Portfolio Management and Market Structure Conference held in Toronto in early November.  In this episode, we replay a panel discussion with executives from the leading benchmark providers MSCI, S&P and FTSE-Russell alongside an index manager from State Street Investment Management. Topics discussed include the difficulty of reconciling domestic and global benchmark policies, evolving rules on domicile, concentration and capping rules and the emerging issue of eligibility for companies around the world running crypto treasury operations inside operating companies, so-called Digital Asset Treasury Companies.

Chapter Headings

02:54 Domestic Benchmark Overlap

06:52 What It Would Take to Make Canadian Names Eligible for S&P 500?

14:51 FTSE 100 Eligibility for non-UK Incorporated Issuers

27:38 Mag 7 Concentration

31:48 Eligibility of Digital Asset Treasury Companies

36:44 MSCI/FTSE Split on Viet Nam and South Korea

48:15 Implications of 24-hour Trading

This podcast was recorded on November 6, 2025 

For relevant disclosures, visit: tdsecurities.com/ca/en/legal#PodcastDisclosure. To learn more about TD Securities, visit us at tdsecurities.com or follow us on LinkedIn @tdsecurities.

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In Episode 73, we recap the recent SEC Roundtable on Rule 611 (aka the Trade Through or Order Protection Rule).  SEC Chair Paul Atkins has long been opposed to the rule that forces linkages between exchanges to ensure investors always receive the best price.  In his view, Atkins believes 611 stifles innovation and limits competition.  Joining us for the discussion are two of the roundtable participants, Hubert DeJesus of Blackrock and Professor James Angel from Georgetown University, both market structure experts, along with the TMX's Head of Product Doug Clark, an interested observer from his perch in Toronto. The group discusses the need for the rule, the lack of apparent opposition to its removal, the likelihood the rule disappears and market structure implications if it does get eliminated. The group also discusses the elephant in the room, tokenization of equity trading, and how the crypto market might benefit if 611 is removed.

This podcast was recorded on October 2, 2025.

Chapter Headings

02:00    Why Rule 611 is Like Scaffolding?

06:08    Why No Market Participants Spoke Out in Support of the Rule?

16:57   What is An IBBO And EBBO?

20:23    Laundry List of Issues to Address if Rule is Eliminated

37:02    How Changes to SIP Fees are Implemented

42:23    Can Trad-Fi and De-Fi Co-exist in a Global Equity Ecosystem?

46:03    Using Exemptive Relief "Sandbox" For Equity Tokens and Potential For Litigation

For relevant disclosures, visit: tdsecurities.com/ca/en/legal#PodcastDisclosure. To learn more about TD Securities, visit us at tdsecurities.com or follow us on LinkedIn @tdsecurities.

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In Episode 72 we cross the pond to meet with a couple European market structure experts for a deep dive on local market on close mechanisms.  This podcast is part two of a three-part discussion which launched in the Americas and will conclude in APAC next month.  Joining the podcast for a return visit is James Baugh, head of European Market Structure from TD Securities and Evan Canwell, Equity Trader and Market Structure Specialist at T Rowe in London.  The two experts discuss pivotal differences in the structure of closing auctions in Europe compared to North America, namely the fact that in Europe the end of day auctions occur standalone following the end of continuous trading, whereas in North America, closing auction price discovery takes place prior to the end of the regular trading session. This key difference impacts how traders use the facilities and how liquidity forms at the end of the regular trading session.   James and Evan also touch on the pros and cons of structural differences with auctions in Europe where larger marketplaces covered by the LSE and Euronext offer fully transparent facilities, whereas smaller markets use mostly non- transparent auction models.  The two cross the finish line with some quick hits on current market structure hot buttons in the region including the latest on a consolidated tape, the debate over high market data fees, the possibility of an Order Protection Rule and the timing of T + 1 settlement.

This podcast was recorded on June 26, 2025.

Chapter Headings:

8:25 - Dissecting the LSE"s Closing Auction

16:00 - How T Rowe Uses the MOC facility?

21:48 - Unique Features of MOCs on the Continent – Closing Times and Transparency

30:15 - Closing Auction Volume Metrics and Trends

34:24 - Alternative Closing Facilities – Do they Harm Price Discovery?

40:17 - The Impact of a Post Continuous Closing Auction on End of Day Liquidity?

48:05 - Market Structure Quick Takes – Consolidated Tape, Market Data Costs, OPR and T1

For relevant disclosures, visit: tdsecurities.com/ca/en/legal#PodcastDisclosure. To learn more about TD Securities, visit us at tdsecurities.com or follow us on LinkedIn @tdsecurities.

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In Episode 71, Peter is joined by two market on close experts from Vanguard, portfolio managers Nick Birkett and John Kraynak. Nick has been trading the US close for the past eight years from his perch in the Scottsdale office. Prior to moving to the US, Nick was with the portfolio trading team at JP Morgan in London for 14 years. John is based out of Malvern and has been with Vanguard for 15 years. He manages portfolios for the international team and is active in trading closing order flow for Vanguard in Canada and Brazil and is involved in working with Mexican officials on the potential creation of a MOC auction modeled off the new relatively new, and very well received, TSX MOC facility. Nick and John go through the nuances of each model and order type important to closing auctions and debate the pros and cons of various features of each MOC facility. The two PMs finish up with tips for traders navigating on close risk in the Americas, a process that requires local knowledge that takes into consideration unique trading conventions in each market. 

This podcast was recorded on May 5, 2025.

Chapter Headings:

01:11 - Does Concentration of Flow on Close Lead to Higher Intra Day Trading Costs?

07:24 - Model Preferences – Europe Style or American Style Closing Auction

16:30 - MOC Deep Dives – Canada, Mexico (work in progress), Brazil

33:56 - NYSE Allows Early Floor Look, Late Imbalance Flip Flops – Does That Cause Fairness Issues?

41:08 - Understanding Accessible MOC Volume – Case Study – Canada

45:22 - Broker Sponsored Closing Facilities – Good or Bad

48:25 - Advice for Traders Navigating the Close

For relevant disclosures, visit: tdsecurities.com/ca/en/legal#PodcastDisclosure. To learn more about TD Securities, visit us at tdsecurities.com or follow us on LinkedIn @tdsecurities.

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In Episode 70, we invite back two Bid Out podcast veterans, Jim Toes, President of the Security Traders Association, and Jaret Seiberg, TD Cowen's Washington Research Group Financial Services Policy Expert, for a discussion on the next SEC Administration, likely to be led by Paul Atkins. Jim and Jaret start with an explanation for the low key, zero drama nature of the Atkins confirmation hearing for SEC Chair, citing the limited pushback expected on the nomination, and the fact that the confirmation process has been streamlined post the GFC. That said, Minority Ranking Member Elizabeth Warren published a 34-page letter of issues and questions for the Chair-Designate covering a wide range of current and historic SEC issues, including many about the time Atkins spent as an SEC Commissioner prior to the GFC. Jim and Jaret discuss several of the topics raised by Senator Warren, including potential conflicts for the Chair, gamification of markets, the future of FINRA and the CAT, and crypto oversight.  The pod finishes with Jim's look into his crystal ball to answer the question "will Atkins reverse NMS during his tenure?"

This podcast was recorded on April 2, 2025.

Chapter Times:

00:55 - The Zero Drama Atkins Hearing and Next Steps

08:30 - Senator Warren's 34 Page History Lesson

13:22 - The Future State of Completely Partisan Commissioners

23:34 - Will Atkins Reverse Policy Decisions from Gensler Administration?

31:10 - How Can Atkins Manage Conflicts Including with Trump?

35:31 - 0DTE, Gamification, 24 Hour Trading and Crypto – Protecting Retail Investors

For relevant disclosures, visit: tdsecurities.com/ca/en/legal#PodcastDisclosure. To learn more about TD Securities, visit us at tdsecurities.com or follow us on LinkedIn @tdsecurities.

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In Episode 69, two Canadian market structure experts, Doug Clark, Head of Equity Product Design for TMX Group, and Rob Gouley, Equity Trading Principle, OMERS, join the podcast to dig in on all things Canadian equity market structure. The conversation starts with a quick elevator pitch on what are the key differentiating features about trading in Canadian shares versus other market models, including the troublesome growth in F Class trading of Canadian shares in the US OTC market. Rob provides his perspective on venue innovation in Canada, and also gives a positive take on the TSX's revised market on close mechanism, which now looks and feels a lot like Nasdaq's US MOC mechanism. Doug provides a 411 on both Alpha X in Canada, and the recent launch of AlphaX US, and Rob outlines the better late than never CSA response to the SEC's market structure rule changes. The two speakers end up in a thought exercise on what Canada's market would look like if Canada banned OPR and Fair Access.

This podcast was recorded on January 24, 2025.

Chapter Times:

05:45 - The Elevator Pitch on Trading in Canada

10:00 - Canadian Trading Volume on F Class Shares in US

13:50 - The Pros and Cons of Transparent Broker IDs

17:30 - New Marketplace Innovations in Canada

28:58 - TMX Dips its Toes into US Ocean

35:50 - Canada's Reboot on Market on Close

39:52 - Canadian New Issue Market in Atrophy

43:55 - Canada's Response to SEC on Ticks and Access Fees

50:43 - A Case for Canada to Ban OPR and Fair Access

For relevant disclosures, visit: tdsecurities.com/ca/en/legal#PodcastDisclosure. To learn more about TD Securities, visit us at tdsecurities.com or follow us on LinkedIn @tdsecurities.

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In Episode 68, we are joined by Allison Bishop, President of Proof Trading, for a discussion on market data in the US, a topic that is a front burner item with market structure followers.  Allison provides her firm's experience as a start-up small broker required to purchase market data and the choice between subscribing to the faster but more expensive prop feeds from exchanges or using publicly available data feeds known as SIPs.  Her firm chose the SIPs which put her front and center as a stakeholder in the on-going debate over content and governance of the public data feeds, a contest that began in 2018, included multiple lawsuits and remains in limbo and awaiting direction from the SEC.   This podcast is a great resource for any market participant wanting to understand the history of the debate over market data and what might happen next with the incoming Atkins Administration at the SEC.

Chapter Headings:

04:50 - The Choice between the SIP and Prop Feeds

07:15 - Guiding Principles of Market Data Reform

13:36 - The Final Rules on SIP Content and Governance

15:29 - Making Sense of the Initial Cost Proposal for the Enhanced SIP

25:40 - Why Data Should be a Utility like Water or Electricity?

29:09 - Will Smaller Exchanges Fight Incumbents to Lower Data Fees?

For relevant disclosures, visit: tdsecurities.com/ca/en/legal#PodcastDisclosure. To learn more about TD Securities, visit us at tdsecurities.com or follow us on LinkedIn @tdsecurities.

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As has become tradition, each year at our annual portfolio management and market structure conference we include a panel with index providers from the Big 3, FTSE-Russell, MSCI and S&P Dow Jones.  In our recent event held November 7th, we added a portfolio manager from Vanguard's International Team, Michael Perre, to the discussion to provide a user's perspective on some of the hot button items for index benchmark providers.  Topics covered in this discussion include recent consultations on domicile and capping, South Korea's status as a split country and the possibility it moves either to Emerging for FTSE or Developed for MSCI and accountability for index provider errors that leave a footprint in the market.  The panelists also discuss whether indexing is a crowded trade.  Other participants include Catherine Yoshimoto from FTSE, Jean-Maurice Ladure from MSCI and Louis Bellucci from S&P.

Chapter Headings

1:00 - Who Do Indexers Sell to if the Bubble Bursts?

12:54 - S&P's Domicile Consultation

29:00 Accountability for Index Provider Errors

36:53 - South Korea's Split Status

44:47 - Is Indexing a Crowded Trade Yet?

48:15 - Capping Benchmarks and RIC Rules

For relevant disclosures, visit: tdsecurities.com/ca/en/legal#PodcastDisclosure. To learn more about TD Securities, visit us at tdsecurities.com or follow us on LinkedIn @tdsecurities.

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