Transcript
Avi Stopper (00:00)
Welcome to Bike Networks Now. I'm Avi Stopper, the founder of Bike Streets. Through a series of conversations with leaders in bike transportation and beyond, we're trying to answer a question: Why is bike transportation still not possible for most people in American cities, and how can we make it a reality? Despite voter support and billions of dollars of investment, there's no city in America where biking is a practical reality for people of all ages and abilities. Why is that? And how can we fix it so anyone can ride to the places they want to go today? These aren't just freewheeling conversations. We're in search of an answer. And that answer—a modern approach to innovation—is the topic of a book we're writing on how cities can make bike transportation possible today.
Avi Stopper (00:48)
My guest is Elizabeth Adams, deputy director of public affairs at Transportation Alternatives, the juggernaut advocacy powerhouse in New York City, where she's been involved in everything from bike transportation to bus rapid transit to congestion pricing. I should note as a quick aside that a study just came out in the last few days indicating that since congestion pricing kicked in, air quality in New York City has improved by 22%.
What we're here today to talk about, however, is something almost absurdly specific. We're going to go deep on a specific bike facility that I am obsessed with. It's in Brooklyn on Berry Street near the Williamsburg Bridge. I don't know if a podcast episode has ever been devoted to a somewhat nondescript bike facility, but as you'll hear, this is amazing transformational bike infrastructure. It has potential to scale quickly and inexpensively beyond anything else that I have seen anywhere.
Before joining Transportation Alternatives, Elizabeth was the legislative director for New York City Council member Stephen Levin in the 33rd district. It's a city council district with a mere 170,000 people that is right along the waterfront in Brooklyn. So Elizabeth had a front seat to the development of the bike infrastructure on Berry and may be as well positioned as anyone to describe the history of its development. And that's what we're going to go deep on today. Elizabeth, welcome. How did I do with that intro?
Elizabeth Adams (02:25)
That was great, thanks. Yeah, great to be here.
Avi Stopper (02:27)
So to start, if you'll indulge me, I want to tell you the story of how I discovered and became obsessed with Berry Street. Earlier this year, I was traveling on the East Coast and the folks at the Boston Cyclist Union gave me an awesome tour of Greater Boston. And then I rode in Brooklyn with Jon Orcutt, the former director of policy at the New York City Department of Transportation. As I flew back to Denver later that day, I played back our ride in my mind and one section of infrastructure on the ride stuck out. It was puzzling. I had never seen this kind of thing before. I just kept wondering what was that?
I checked my ride track in the Bike Streets app when I got home and found that it was Berry Street right next to the Williamsburg Bridge. I then pulled up Google Street View on my computer and again, was just like, even as I was confronted with what it looked like, what is this? And in the Street View images, the proof is actually in the pudding. There are bicyclists in the Street View images. There are people pushing strollers in the middle of a New York City street. It's astonishing. So let's start there. In the most literal terms, can you please answer my question? What is the bike infrastructure on Berry Street?
Elizabeth Adams (03:51)
Berry Street is an Open Street. It was an open street from the pandemic that has been made permanent and serves really as a bike boulevard. So it's now a two-way cycling route. It has traffic calming measures up and down the corridor with a number of intersection enhancements, pedestrian safety measures like daylighting, and it also has vehicle loading zones for truck loading at the end of each curb so that we are reducing traffic volumes and trucks in the neighborhood still allow for kind of local delivery in and out for businesses on the corridor.
It serves really as a public space, an open green space for a lot of residents in Brooklyn. It is frequented by, as you said, people pushing strollers with their kids, older adults who are using walkers or people with wheelchairs, and people cycling. So it is a bike boulevard as well as a shared street. Cars are not allowed to go more than five miles per hour on it. If they go up, they have to turn kind of off of it. So really trying to keep the traffic flowing towards other streets. And it's really just a lovely space.
I lived over there a number of years and you know, going to restaurants or you're going to have a drink and hang out on the street—you're kind of walking up and down the corridor. It works really well for as well as pedestrian space and that really is the vision, right? You can get around in multiple ways and feel really safe doing so and it has been really great for safety improvements in the neighborhood.
Avi Stopper (05:42)
And so this bike boulevard set of conditions is accomplished through what I found to be a truly astonishing bit of design, which is a series of alternating one-way streets. So Berry itself is one way, but it is not one way in the same direction for a protracted stretch of blocks. Instead, every two or three blocks, the direction of the one way changes. And that is—I think the foundational condition that prevents or precludes almost entirely through traffic. Am I right in understanding that that is the key design element that takes what was probably a collector? I think I've looked at it in the historical Street View and it was a mid-sized street and turns it into this bike boulevard.
Elizabeth Adams (06:31)
Yes, exactly. So the idea really is that you're continually moving cars off of it rather than having it be just a major through route for vehicles, especially cars coming off the bridge or going up into Queens. This really keeps vehicles going to other streets and then kind of slows the flow of traffic everywhere. So it keeps the whole neighborhood moving better.
Avi Stopper (07:02)
How would you describe what Berry was like before this temporary Open Streets initiative at the beginning of the pandemic?
Elizabeth Adams (07:10)
Yeah, so it was really congested and very crowded. And the history of Williamsburg is an industrial neighborhood with a lot of truck traffic, with a lot of cars. That has shifted over the last decade, several years, to be much more of a vibrant residential neighborhood, yet the infrastructure and the street design has not caught up. Neighbors have been calling for a redesign and a restructuring of Berry Street for years because it was—because of the focus on car infrastructure and truck design—it made it really unsafe, made it clogged if you're trying to get out and shop and kind of walk around the neighborhood. It was really not suited for that or really designed with that in mind.
So, you know, there have been years of people kind of calling for changes and for better bike infrastructure and pedestrian space overall. And then when the pandemic hit, it really kind of opened up this opportunity in an entirely new way that was just extremely organic in the way that people were looking for more public space.
Avi Stopper (08:23)
Can you describe what happened in the early days of the pandemic and how it started this evolution into its current state?
Elizabeth Adams (08:30)
At the start of the pandemic, New Yorkers were looking for a lot more space, space to get outside, to get outside safely, to be able to breathe fresh air, get together with friends, family. And Open Streets really popped up as a response to this, as people saying, look, the way that we have prioritized our streetscape does not make sense. It does not work. And there was just kind of a really natural push for corridors frankly and big ones to be used in a different way.
Berry Street section is 1.1 miles of a street that was turned into an open street and so that was kind of off of Broadway getting off of the bridge towards up towards McCarren Park. And it was just kind of a really wonderful time, I have to say, in terms of how the community came together for this. I was part of that with some neighbors who were fighting to get like those sawhorse, A-frame police barricades that you kind of just put out in the street. It was very low resource and just like, we're just gonna put some markers in the street and close them off and get outside. And it worked.
Really, you instantly saw Berry Street come alive. Restaurants that were at risk of closing put some chairs outside. People kind of sat in the street. There was activation throughout the day and evening and night that Berry Street just hadn't seen in years and years and years. It became part of people's routines. And honestly, it became part of my routine during the pandemic. You know, I go to Berry Street to like go for a walk or get some exercise.
Avi Stopper (10:30)
So this process that you just described, you're putting out sawhorses. I have a lot of questions about the mechanics of how this worked. Were you literally putting sawhorses in the street every day?
Elizabeth Adams (10:40)
Yes. So it was volunteer-led. The city had a program called Open Streets that allowed for the application for sections of streets to be closed during certain hours. But the implementation was left to volunteers and community groups. So we would literally go out there in the morning—there was a core group of maybe five to seven neighbors who were really committed to this—and we would set up the barricades at the entry points to the street, usually around 8 or 9 AM.
And then we would take them down in the evening, usually around 8 or 9 PM. So it was a 12-hour operation every single day. And it was a lot of work, but it was also really rewarding because you could see immediately the impact it was having on the neighborhood and on people's daily lives.
Avi Stopper (11:20)
That is remarkable. And so this was happening seven days a week?
Elizabeth Adams (11:25)
Initially it was happening on weekends and then it expanded to seven days a week, yes. During the height of the pandemic when everyone was home and people really needed this space, it was operating daily. And I think that daily operation was really key to its success because it allowed people to incorporate it into their daily routines and really see it as part of the neighborhood rather than just a special event.
Avi Stopper (11:50)
And how long did this volunteer operation continue before it became permanent?
Elizabeth Adams (11:55)
The volunteer operation continued for about two years. So from the spring of 2020 through early 2022. And during that time, there was a lot of advocacy work happening to try to get the city to make it permanent. We were working with Transportation Alternatives, we were working with our city council member Stephen Levin, we were working with DOT directly to say, look, this is clearly working. People love it. It's improving safety. It's creating community space. Let's figure out how to make this permanent.
And the city was pretty receptive to that, but it took time to figure out the logistics and the funding and the design elements that would be needed to make it work permanently without volunteers having to set up barricades every day.
Avi Stopper (12:35)
Can you describe what the permanent implementation looks like? How is it different from the temporary version?
Elizabeth Adams (12:41)
So the permanent implementation has much more substantial infrastructure. Instead of temporary barricades that we were putting out every day, there are now permanent bollards and planters and other fixed infrastructure that creates the traffic calming and the direction changes that prevent through traffic.
The city also installed permanent signage to make it clear to drivers that this is a shared space with very low speed limits. They improved the intersections with better crosswalks and daylighting to improve visibility and safety. And they created those permanent loading zones that I mentioned earlier so that businesses can still receive deliveries but in a way that doesn't interfere with the bike and pedestrian space.
Avi Stopper (13:20)
One of the things that strikes me about this is the level of community engagement and the sustained commitment that was required. Can you talk about what made that possible? What were the conditions that allowed for this kind of sustained volunteer effort?
Elizabeth Adams (13:35)
I think there were a few key factors. One was that the pandemic created this moment where people really understood viscerally the value of public space and the problems with our car-centric street design. People were stuck at home, they needed places to go outside safely, and Berry Street provided that.
Second, Williamsburg has a pretty engaged and organized community. There were already neighborhood groups and networks that could be activated around this issue. And third, the benefits were so immediate and obvious that it created its own momentum. Once people experienced what it was like to have this kind of space, they didn't want to go back.
But I do want to acknowledge that this level of volunteer commitment is not realistic or sustainable everywhere. It requires people who have the time and capacity to do this kind of work, and not everyone has that privilege. So while I think the Berry Street model is replicable in many ways, the volunteer implementation model probably isn't.
Avi Stopper (14:35)
That's a really important point. So if we're thinking about scaling this approach, what would need to be different?
Elizabeth Adams (14:42)
I think cities need to be prepared to do the implementation themselves rather than relying on volunteers. The volunteer model worked for Berry Street because it was during the pandemic when people had different schedules and priorities, and because we had a very committed core group. But that's not something you can count on in every neighborhood.
So if cities want to replicate this approach, they need to have the staff capacity and the resources to do the daily setup and maintenance, at least initially. And they need to be prepared to move relatively quickly to permanent implementation so that the volunteer burden doesn't become unsustainable.
Avi Stopper (15:15)
What role did political leadership play in this process? You mentioned working with Council Member Levin—what was that relationship like?
Elizabeth Adams (15:23)
Stephen was really crucial to this. He understood immediately the value of what we were doing and he was willing to advocate for it at the city level. He helped navigate the bureaucratic process of getting approvals and funding for the permanent implementation. And he provided political cover when there was pushback from some community members or business owners who were concerned about the changes.
Having that political support was essential because it gave the DOT confidence that this was something the community really wanted and that there was political will behind it. Without that, I don't think we would have been able to make the transition to permanent implementation.
Avi Stopper (16:00)
Were there opponents to this project? How did you handle pushback?
Elizabeth Adams (16:05)
There was some pushback, mostly from people who were concerned about losing parking or who were worried about emergency vehicle access. We tried to address those concerns proactively by making sure there were still loading zones for businesses and by working with the fire department to ensure emergency vehicles could still get through.
But honestly, the opposition was pretty minimal compared to what you often see with bike infrastructure projects. I think that's partly because the benefits were so visible and immediate, and partly because it grew out of a genuine community need during the pandemic rather than being imposed from above.
Avi Stopper (16:40)
Looking back on this whole process, what do you think are the key lessons for other cities or other advocates who might want to try something similar?
Elizabeth Adams (16:50)
I think the biggest lesson is the importance of community organizing and having neighbors who are willing to fight for this kind of infrastructure. The volunteer effort wasn't sustainable long-term, but it was crucial for demonstrating that there was real community support and for showing what was possible.
The second lesson is about timing. The pandemic created this unique moment where people were more open to thinking differently about how we use our streets. That window may not always be there, so advocates need to be ready to act when those moments arise.
And the third lesson is about partnerships. Working with DOT, working with our council member, working with Transportation Alternatives—having those relationships and that institutional support was crucial for moving from a temporary experiment to permanent infrastructure.
Avi Stopper (17:35)
What about the design itself? The alternating one-way sections seem like such a simple but brilliant solution. Had you seen that approach used elsewhere?
Elizabeth Adams (17:45)
The alternating one-way design was really DOT's innovation. They looked at the street configuration and the traffic patterns and figured out that this would be the most effective way to prevent through traffic while still allowing local access. I hadn't seen it used exactly this way before, but it's such an elegant solution because it doesn't require a lot of expensive infrastructure—just some signage and bollards at key points.
The beauty of it is that it makes the street essentially useless for through traffic while keeping it fully functional for people who actually live or work in the neighborhood. Cars can still get where they need to go, but they can't use Berry Street as a shortcut to avoid traffic on other streets.
Avi Stopper (18:25)
How has this affected the broader transportation network in the neighborhood? Did traffic just move to parallel streets?
Elizabeth Adams (18:33)
That's always the concern with traffic calming measures, and DOT did study this carefully. There was some increase in traffic on parallel streets, but it wasn't as dramatic as people feared. I think that's partly because of the way the alternating one-way design works—it doesn't just divert traffic, it actually discourages some car trips altogether by making driving less convenient than walking or biking.
And the benefits on Berry Street itself were so significant—not just for cyclists and pedestrians, but also for the businesses and residents along the corridor—that I think most people felt it was a worthwhile trade-off.
Avi Stopper (19:10)
What's the current status of Berry Street? How is it working now that it's been permanent for a while?
Elizabeth Adams (19:17)
It's working really well. It's become a really integral part of the neighborhood transportation network and the community space. You see families using it, commuters using it to get to and from the Williamsburg Bridge, people just hanging out and socializing. It's exactly what we hoped it would become.
The businesses along the corridor have generally been happy with it because it's brought more foot traffic and created a more pleasant environment for their customers. And the safety improvements have been significant—we've seen a real reduction in crashes and injuries.
Avi Stopper (19:50)
Have there been any unexpected challenges or benefits since it became permanent?
Elizabeth Adams (19:55)
One challenge that we didn't fully anticipate was maintenance. With all the increased foot traffic and bike traffic, the street surface needs more frequent attention. And the planters and other infrastructure require ongoing care.
But on the benefits side, it's been amazing to see how it's changed the character of the neighborhood. It's created this spine of community space that connects different parts of Williamsburg in a way that didn't exist before. And it's inspired other streets improvement projects in the area—I think it's shown people what's possible when we prioritize people over cars in our street design.
Avi Stopper (20:30)
How replicable do you think this model is? What would it take for other cities to do something similar?
Elizabeth Adams (20:37)
I think the model is very replicable, but cities need to be thoughtful about adapting it to their specific context. The alternating one-way design might not work everywhere, but the basic principle of using simple, inexpensive interventions to prevent through traffic while creating space for bikes and pedestrians—that can work in a lot of places.
The key is having the political will to try it and the community engagement to make it work. Cities also need to be prepared to act quickly when opportunities arise, like during the pandemic, rather than getting bogged down in years of planning and process.
Avi Stopper (21:10)
What role do you think the pandemic played in making this possible? Could this have happened without that catalyst?
Elizabeth Adams (21:18)
The pandemic was absolutely crucial. It created this moment where everyone understood the need for public space and where the normal political and bureaucratic barriers were temporarily lowered. The city was willing to try things on a temporary basis that they might never have approved as permanent projects.
Without the pandemic, I think we would have needed years of traditional community planning processes, environmental reviews, all the usual bureaucracy. And by the time we got through all that, the momentum and community energy might have been lost.
So while I hope we can learn to be more nimble and experimental even without a crisis, I do think the pandemic created a unique opportunity that allowed this to happen much faster than it otherwise would have.
Avi Stopper (22:00)
How has your experience with Berry Street influenced your work at Transportation Alternatives?
Elizabeth Adams (22:06)
It's been hugely influential. It's given me a really concrete example of how community organizing and smart street design can come together to create something that works for everyone. And it's shown me the importance of being ready to act when opportunities arise rather than waiting for perfect conditions.
At Transportation Alternatives, we're always looking for ways to support community-led initiatives like this and to help scale successful models to other neighborhoods. Berry Street has become a really powerful example that we can point to when we're talking to other communities about what's possible.
Avi Stopper (22:40)
Are there other examples of streets in New York that have been transformed in similar ways?
Elizabeth Adams (22:46)
There are several other Open Streets that have become permanent or are in the process of becoming permanent. Each one has its own unique design solution based on the specific street configuration and community needs, but they all share this basic principle of prioritizing people over cars.
I think the Open Streets program during the pandemic really demonstrated to the city that there's a lot of appetite for this kind of infrastructure and that it can work in many different contexts. So we're seeing more experimentation and more willingness to try innovative design solutions.
Avi Stopper (23:15)
What advice would you give to advocates in other cities who are interested in trying something like this?
Elizabeth Adams (23:22)
Start by building community support. The infrastructure is only as strong as the organizing behind it. Get your neighbors involved, build relationships with local businesses, and make sure you have a core group of people who are committed to making it work.
Second, build relationships with the relevant government agencies before you need them. Get to know the planners and engineers who would be involved in implementing this kind of project. Understand their constraints and their priorities.
And third, be ready to act when opportunities arise. Whether it's a crisis like the pandemic or just a change in political leadership, there are moments when the normal barriers are lowered and bold ideas become possible. You want to be ready for those moments.
Avi Stopper (24:00)
What are Transportation Alternatives' priorities going forward? How does street design fit into the broader advocacy agenda?
Elizabeth Adams (24:08)
Street design is absolutely central to our work. We're focused on creating a transportation system that prioritizes safety, equity, and sustainability, and that means fundamentally rethinking how we design and use our streets.
We're working on Vision Zero to eliminate traffic deaths, we're advocating for more and better bike infrastructure, we're pushing for better bus service and bus lanes, and we're supporting communities that want to create more people-centered streets like Berry Street.
The pandemic showed us that change is possible much faster than we thought, and I think that's given us more ambition about what we can accomplish in the next few years.
Avi Stopper (24:45)
Looking to the future, how do you think street design in New York will evolve over the next decade?
Elizabeth Adams (24:52)
I think we're going to see a lot more experimentation and innovation. The success of projects like Berry Street has shown that there's public support for bold changes and that they can work really well when they're designed thoughtfully.
I expect to see more bike infrastructure, more bus lanes, more pedestrian space, and more creative solutions that prioritize people over cars. The challenge will be scaling these innovations and making sure they're implemented equitably across all neighborhoods, not just the ones with the most political power or organizing capacity.
Avi Stopper (25:25)
Is there anything we haven't covered about Berry Street that you think is important for people to understand?
Elizabeth Adams (25:32)
I think one thing that's really important to understand is that Berry Street works because it's part of a broader network. It connects to the Williamsburg Bridge, it connects to other bike infrastructure in the area, and it serves multiple types of trips—commuting, recreation, local errands.
Too often we think about bike infrastructure in isolation, but the most successful projects are the ones that connect people to the places they actually want to go. Berry Street works because it's not just a nice amenity—it's actually useful transportation infrastructure that makes it easier for people to get around without a car.
Avi Stopper (26:05)
Before we wrap up, I want to ask about the maintenance and operations of Berry Street. Who's responsible for keeping it clean and functional?
Elizabeth Adams (26:14)
That's handled by the city now, which is a huge improvement from the volunteer model. The Department of Transportation is responsible for maintaining the infrastructure—the bollards, the signage, the street markings. Parks Department handles the planters and green infrastructure. And Sanitation handles the regular cleaning.
Having that professional maintenance is crucial for the long-term success of the project. During the volunteer phase, we were constantly worried about things like snow clearance in the winter or making sure the barriers were properly positioned. Now that's all handled systematically by the city.
Avi Stopper (26:45)
How do you think the success of Berry Street has influenced other transportation projects in New York?
Elizabeth Adams (26:52)
I think it's been really influential in showing that community-led projects can work and that temporary experiments can lead to permanent change. It's also demonstrated the value of simple, low-cost interventions that can be implemented quickly and adjusted as needed.
We've seen that approach applied to other projects across the city—trying things out on a temporary basis, gathering community feedback, and then making them permanent if they work. That's a much more nimble and responsive approach than the traditional model of spending years planning something and then implementing it all at once.
Avi Stopper (27:25)
What would you say to someone who argues that resources spent on bike infrastructure like this could be better used for other transportation priorities?
Elizabeth Adams (27:34)
I think the great thing about projects like Berry Street is that they're actually very cost-effective. The infrastructure is relatively inexpensive compared to something like a new subway line or highway expansion, but the benefits are significant—improved safety, better air quality, more physical activity, stronger communities.
And it's not an either/or situation. We need better subway service AND better bike infrastructure AND better bus service. A truly sustainable transportation system requires multiple options that work together, and bike infrastructure is a crucial part of that.
Avi Stopper (28:05)
How important do you think it is for advocates to have deep expertise in transportation planning and engineering?
Elizabeth Adams (28:13)
I think it's important to understand the basics, but you don't need to be an expert. What's more important is understanding your community's needs and being able to communicate those effectively to the experts who do the detailed design work.
The Berry Street project succeeded because we had strong community organizing combined with good technical expertise from DOT. Neither one would have been sufficient on its own, but together they were really powerful.
Avi Stopper (28:40)
What's your sense of how quickly this kind of infrastructure can be implemented in other places? Is the Berry Street timeline replicable?
Elizabeth Adams (28:49)
I think the timeline can be much faster in places where there's already political support and community engagement. The pandemic created this unique situation where we had to prove demand through two years of volunteer work, but in a normal situation, a city could probably implement something similar much more quickly.
The key is having the political will to try it and the flexibility to adjust as you learn what works and what doesn't. That requires a different approach to planning than what most cities are used to, but I think Berry Street has shown that it's possible and effective.
Avi Stopper (29:20)
How do you think about the relationship between temporary and permanent infrastructure in transportation advocacy?
Elizabeth Adams (29:28)
I think temporary infrastructure is a really powerful tool for demonstrating what's possible and building public support for permanent change. But it's important to have a clear path from temporary to permanent, because the temporary phase can be exhausting for communities and it can create uncertainty that makes it harder to build lasting support.
The ideal is probably what we saw with Berry Street—a relatively short temporary phase that allows you to test and refine the design, followed by quick implementation of permanent infrastructure. The temporary phase shouldn't go on indefinitely.
Avi Stopper (30:00)
What metrics do you use to measure the success of a project like Berry Street?
Elizabeth Adams (30:06)
We look at a lot of different things—safety data, usage counts, community feedback, economic impact on local businesses. But honestly, sometimes the most important metric is just watching how people use the space. When you see families with young children using the street confidently, when you see older adults who feel comfortable walking there, when you see local businesses thriving—those are the indicators that tell you the project is really working.
The quantitative data is important for making the case to policymakers, but the qualitative experience is what really matters for people's daily lives.
Avi Stopper (30:40)
Are there aspects of the Berry Street design that you would change or improve if you were starting over?
Elizabeth Adams (30:47)
I think the basic concept is really solid, but there are always small improvements you could make. Better wayfinding signage, more comfortable seating areas, maybe some weather protection. And I think we could have done more to engage local artists and make it feel more like a unique neighborhood space rather than just transportation infrastructure.
But overall, I'm really happy with how it turned out. It's accomplished what we hoped it would accomplish, and it's become a model that other communities can adapt to their own needs.
Avi Stopper (31:15)
How do you balance the needs of different users—cyclists, pedestrians, families with strollers, people with mobility devices?
Elizabeth Adams (31:24)
That was definitely a challenge in the design process, but I think the key was making the space flexible rather than trying to designate specific areas for specific uses. The street is wide enough that people can share it comfortably, and the low-stress environment means that conflicts between different users are rare.
We also made sure that the intersections and access points are designed to work for people with different mobility needs. That's something that requires careful attention to detail, but it's absolutely crucial for making the space truly accessible to everyone.
Avi Stopper (31:55)
What role did local businesses play in the development and implementation of Berry Street?
Elizabeth Adams (32:02)
Local businesses were generally supportive, especially once they saw how much foot traffic the Open Street was generating. During the pandemic, when many businesses were struggling, the additional customers who came to Berry Street because it was a pleasant place to walk and hang out were really valuable.
We made sure to include loading zones in the permanent design so that businesses could still receive deliveries, and I think that helped address any concerns about the changes affecting their operations. Most businesses now see Berry Street as an asset that makes their location more attractive to customers.
Avi Stopper (32:35)
How has Berry Street changed your own relationship with your neighborhood?
Elizabeth Adams (32:41)
It's made me feel much more connected to the community. During the volunteer phase, I got to know neighbors I never would have met otherwise, and that sense of shared ownership of the space has continued even now that it's permanent.
It's also changed how I move around the neighborhood. I bike more, I walk more, and I feel safer doing both. It's given me a much deeper appreciation for what's possible when we design streets for people instead of just for cars.
Avi Stopper (33:10)
What would you say to critics who argue that projects like this primarily benefit affluent neighborhoods?
Elizabeth Adams (33:17)
That's a really important concern, and it's something we think about a lot at Transportation Alternatives. The truth is that safe streets and good transportation infrastructure benefit everyone, but too often they get implemented first in neighborhoods that have more political power.
I think the answer is to make sure we're actively working to implement these kinds of improvements in all neighborhoods, especially those that have been historically underinvested in. Berry Street shouldn't be unique—every neighborhood should have safe, comfortable streets that work for everyone.
Avi Stopper (33:50)
How do you think about the role of car storage—parking—in projects like this?
Elizabeth Adams (33:57)
Parking is always a challenge because there's never enough of it to satisfy everyone, but I think Berry Street shows that you can remove some parking without causing major problems if you're providing good alternatives.
The key is being strategic about it—keeping loading zones where businesses need them, making sure there are other transportation options available, and being responsive to legitimate concerns from residents and businesses. But ultimately, I think we have to acknowledge that we can't prioritize car storage over safety and mobility.
Avi Stopper (34:30)
What's your sense of how Berry Street has influenced transportation planning practice in New York?
Elizabeth Adams (34:37)
I think it's been really influential in showing DOT and other agencies that community-led projects can work and that temporary experiments can be a valuable tool for testing new ideas. We're seeing more willingness to try things out on a pilot basis and more openness to community input in the design process.
It's also demonstrated the value of simple, flexible design solutions that can be implemented quickly and adjusted as needed. That's a different approach from the traditional model of doing years of planning and then implementing a fixed design.
Avi Stopper (35:10)
Looking back, what surprised you most about this whole process?
Elizabeth Adams (35:16)
I think what surprised me most was how quickly people adapted to using the space and how normal it became. I expected it would take time for people to feel comfortable walking in the street or letting their kids play there, but it happened almost immediately.
It really reinforced for me that people want these kinds of spaces—they're just not usually available. When you create them, people know how to use them and they value them immensely.
Avi Stopper (35:45)
How do you think about the relationship between infrastructure and community building?
Elizabeth Adams (35:52)
I think good infrastructure can be a catalyst for community building, but it's not automatic. Berry Street worked because there was already a strong community that was ready to take ownership of the space and because we had ongoing organizing and engagement around it.
The infrastructure creates the conditions for community interaction, but the community building happens through the relationships and the shared investment that people have in making the space work for everyone.
Avi Stopper (36:20)
What are you most excited about for the future of transportation in New York?
Elizabeth Adams (36:26)
I'm excited about the momentum that projects like Berry Street have created. There's a growing understanding that we can do things differently and that change can happen much faster than we thought. I'm excited to see that applied to bigger challenges like improving bus service and creating more connected bike networks.
I'm also excited about the next generation of advocates and planners who are coming up with even more creative and ambitious ideas about how our streets can work for everyone.
Avi Stopper (36:55)
How do you maintain momentum and energy for this work when progress can sometimes feel slow?
Elizabeth Adams (37:02)
Projects like Berry Street are actually a big part of how I maintain momentum, because they show that change is possible and that the work we're doing really does make a difference in people's daily lives. When I'm having a frustrating day dealing with bureaucracy or politics, I can ride down Berry Street and see families using the space and remember why this work matters.
And I think building those small victories creates energy for bigger changes. Every successful project makes the next one a little easier and builds more support for the broader vision of better streets for everyone.
Avi Stopper (37:35)
Is there a particular moment from the Berry Street project that stands out to you as especially meaningful?
Elizabeth Adams (37:43)
There was a day during the early volunteer phase when I was setting up barricades in the morning and I saw this older gentleman who I'd seen walking in the neighborhood for years, but he always looked really stressed and hurried because he was trying to navigate around cars and trucks. That morning, he was just strolling down the middle of Berry Street with this completely relaxed expression, taking his time, enjoying the morning.
That moment really crystallized for me what this project was about—it wasn't just about bike infrastructure or traffic calming, it was about giving people the space and the freedom to move through their neighborhood comfortably and safely. That's something everyone deserves, regardless of whether they drive or bike or walk.
Avi Stopper (38:25)
How do you think about equity in the context of bicycle infrastructure?
Elizabeth Adams (38:31)
Equity has to be central to this work. Too often, bike infrastructure gets implemented first in neighborhoods that already have resources and political power, while communities that would benefit most from safe, affordable transportation options are left out.
I think the answer is to be intentional about prioritizing investments in neighborhoods that have been historically underinvested in, and to make sure that community voices are centered in the planning process. But we also have to recognize that good infrastructure benefits everyone—it's not a zero-sum game.
Avi Stopper (39:05)
What advice would you give to someone who wants to get involved in transportation advocacy in their own community?
Elizabeth Adams (39:12)
Start by talking to your neighbors and finding out what their transportation challenges are. Build relationships with people who use the streets in different ways—people who walk, people who bike, people who drive, people who use transit. Understanding those different perspectives is crucial for building broad support for change.
Then get to know your local transportation agency and your elected officials. Understand how decisions get made and where there are opportunities for community input. And don't be afraid to start small—sometimes a simple project like a bike rack or a better crosswalk can build momentum for bigger changes.
Avi Stopper (39:45)
How important is it to have professional support from organizations like Transportation Alternatives?
Elizabeth Adams (39:52)
Professional advocacy organizations can be really valuable because they have the expertise and the resources to navigate complex policy and technical issues. But I think the most powerful advocacy happens when you have strong community organizing combined with institutional support.
Transportation Alternatives was helpful with Berry Street because we could provide technical expertise and help navigate the city bureaucracy, but the project succeeded because there was genuine community ownership and investment. You need both pieces.
Avi Stopper (40:20)
How do you think about the role of volunteers in sustaining transportation advocacy?
Elizabeth Adams (40:26)
Volunteers are absolutely essential—they bring passion and community knowledge that you can't get any other way. But I think we have to be careful not to rely too heavily on volunteer labor, especially for ongoing maintenance or implementation.
The Berry Street project required an enormous amount of volunteer time and energy, and that's not sustainable long-term. It worked as a way to demonstrate community support and test the concept, but I'm glad the city took over the permanent implementation. We need to find ways to harness volunteer energy for advocacy and organizing while making sure the actual infrastructure work is professionally supported.
Avi Stopper (41:05)
What role has social media and digital organizing played in your advocacy work?
Elizabeth Adams (41:11)
Social media has been really important for building awareness and mobilizing support, especially during the pandemic when we couldn't have in-person meetings. We used it to share updates about Berry Street, to organize volunteer shifts, and to celebrate successes.
But I think digital organizing works best when it's combined with face-to-face relationship building. The core organizing for Berry Street happened through neighbors talking to neighbors, attending community meetings, and working together on the daily setup. Social media amplified that work, but it couldn't replace it.
Avi Stopper (41:40)
How do you balance the immediate needs of your community with longer-term advocacy goals?
Elizabeth Adams (41:47)
I think projects like Berry Street are great because they address both. It met an immediate need for public space during the pandemic, but it also advanced longer-term goals around creating better bike infrastructure and more people-centered streets.
The key is finding opportunities where short-term wins can build toward bigger changes. Sometimes you have to be strategic about which battles to fight and when, but I think there are usually ways to make progress on immediate concerns while keeping the bigger vision in mind.
Avi Stopper (42:15)
What do you think advocates need to understand about working with government agencies?
Elizabeth Adams (42:22)
I think it's important to understand that most people who work in government agencies want to do good work and create positive change, but they're operating within institutional constraints that can make it hard to be innovative or responsive.
Building relationships with agency staff, understanding their priorities and limitations, and finding ways to make their jobs easier can be really effective. Sometimes that means bringing technical expertise, sometimes it means organizing community support, sometimes it means providing political cover for bold decisions.
Avi Stopper (42:50)
How has your perspective on transportation planning evolved through this work?
Elizabeth Adams (42:56)
I think I've become much more appreciative of the value of experimentation and iteration. The traditional planning model of spending years studying something and then implementing a fixed design doesn't leave room for learning and adaptation.
The Berry Street project showed me that you can learn a lot by trying something, seeing how it works, and then making adjustments. That requires a different mindset from planners and agencies, but it can lead to much better outcomes.
Avi Stopper (43:25)
What would you say to people who are skeptical about the benefits of bike infrastructure?
Elizabeth Adams (43:32)
I would invite them to spend some time on Berry Street and see how it actually works. I think a lot of skepticism comes from people imagining what bike infrastructure might be like rather than experiencing what good bike infrastructure actually is.
Berry Street isn't just a bike lane—it's a community space that happens to be really good for cycling. It's safer for everyone, it's more pleasant for everyone, and it's better for local businesses. Once people see that, it's hard to argue against it.
Avi Stopper (44:00)
How do you measure your own success as an advocate?
Elizabeth Adams (44:05)
For me, success is about seeing real changes in people's daily lives. Projects like Berry Street are incredibly rewarding because you can see the impact so directly—families using the space, people biking who never biked before, businesses thriving, crashes and injuries reduced.
But I also think success is about building the foundation for future changes. Every project that works well makes the next one easier. Every person who has a positive experience with bike infrastructure becomes an advocate. That cumulative impact is just as important as the immediate benefits.
Avi Stopper (44:40)
What questions do you think we should be asking about the future of urban transportation?
Elizabeth Adams (44:47)
I think we need to be asking how we can create transportation systems that work for everyone, not just people who can afford cars. How do we design streets that are safe for children and older adults? How do we make sure that new infrastructure benefits communities that have been historically excluded? How do we address climate change while also improving people's quality of life?
And I think we need to be asking how we can be more experimental and responsive in our planning processes. How do we learn faster? How do we fail faster when things don't work? How do we scale up the things that do work?
Avi Stopper (45:20)
Any final thoughts on the Berry Street project or lessons for other communities?
Elizabeth Adams (45:27)
I think the most important lesson is that change is possible much faster than we often assume, but it requires both strong community organizing and institutional support. You can't do it with just one or the other.
And I think Berry Street shows that good transportation infrastructure isn't just about moving people efficiently—it's about creating spaces where communities can thrive. When we design streets for people instead of just for cars, we get benefits that go far beyond transportation.
That reliance on volunteer capacity can also be really harmful to sustaining this work because that's a privilege question. Like who has time in some neighborhoods? If people are like, I really like this, but I don't have the free time to kind of volunteer and keep it going and push forward myself. And they also deserve safe streets and bike infrastructure and public space. And so I think that that has to be part of this too—great and important to have neighborhood activation and pressure and expertise. And also we should not just rely solely on volunteers to have our streets working for us, right? That simply can't be the way to do it. And it just won't last. And I think Berry Street is a really incredible case of activism and community engagement and great design. I wish everyone had all that.
Avi Stopper (41:51)
In what ways do you think this has informed or changed—and to the extent that it's possible to make this about Berry Street, that's great, but shared streets more broadly or open streets as they were called there. To what degree would you say that this has changed the way advocacy in New York is done or the way people think about the path to successful projects?
Elizabeth Adams (42:15)
I think as many ways as you can reach neighbors and get people's feedback and input—to me it's a truism, but organizing gets the goods every time. DOT was really great in pushing this and had the kind of wind in their sails from us to do so.
I guess, yeah, I mean, I think partnership between everyone—I think that's a question for wherever you are is like, who are your people in government, right? Like, if your Department of Transportation is like 50 years behind, that's a whole different thing. But if you have folks there who have like a really great sense of city planning that we all want—that's not stuck in the 50s—then I think like, use them, work with them, all of that, as much as possible because a lot of people are trying to do really cool things on the street and getting people together, inside and outside of government, I think is just always key to that.
Avi Stopper (43:24)
This strikes a chord because it echoes a point that Mike Lydon, the author of the book Tactical Urbanism made in a previous conversation that I had, that there needs to be a new level of trust between departments of transportation and advocates because there's a lot of energy and a lot of enthusiasm. And it's certainly something that I have observed. And what you just described, this dependency that the DOT had on you to go out and set up these barricades day to day—it seems to me it's an incredible step forward in the level of trust to say you as a private citizen may go do this. We are so frequently admonished to not touch anything, right? And that is, it's the public right of way, the city has dominion over it, city is responsible for it, et cetera.
Do not touch it, do not change it. And that is a really remarkable departure, at least from what I've observed. And I think that that is what Mike Lydon was describing. So I want to finish with just an anecdote, if you'll indulge me here. On maybe a recent trip that you had down Berry Street and what was notable about it, or maybe what was not? What is just the kind of day-to-day mundane reality of that corridor from a pedestrian standpoint, or maybe you were riding your bike? What do you recall from a recent trip down that street?
Elizabeth Adams (44:51)
Yeah, I mean, I will say as a bike rider, it is always the route that I take, which is lovely. Just, you know, it always—so I'll say two things. One, when I'm biking down Berry, I just feel like a huge wave of appreciation for our city and for feeling really comfortable and calm. And it's a great—this sounds corny, but biking is a great way to see your city, to be in the neighborhood, the kind of ease that you can move through it and feel not stressed or at risk and to feel relaxed with the amount of space that you have. I think that's one thing—as a bike rider, we constantly can feel like pressured for space, either in a narrow bike lane or right next to a car. It's like, it's this space stress. And so that is a really incredible thing for me of just feeling that you have space and that you deserve space and are guaranteed space.
And then I will say a second kind of feeling that I've had as a pedestrian walking is sometimes I'm struck by the kind of look—like the looks that you see people have. They're just like not questioning. They're just like, yep, I'm here. And that to me just makes me think of the thing of like something is always like crazy or radical until it's done. And then it's just like normal and what it is. And so when I see people like walking down Berry with their stroller or just like something that for years would never be possible. You can't just like, walk a stroller in a street. And like, and, you know, with no stress in their mind, just like doing it like totally normal and the amount of work that goes behind and goes into that being possible for someone to just feel calm and normal about what they're doing. That look that you can see in someone just always gets me that I love.
Avi Stopper (47:00)
Maybe that is what we should be aspiring to is this sense of normalcy such that it just fades into the background and this just becomes the normal way that things work. All right, so a lot of our Bike Streets work is about local knowledge. So next time those of us who are fanboys of Berry are out there just riding idly back and forth, what is a great bakery, coffee shop, pizza shop, where should one go when on Berry? What's your favorite stop?
Elizabeth Adams (47:29)
Yeah, there's a bunch of great spots. I really love—there's like a really great Vietnamese place, Lucy's on Berry Street. I would say just pick any, pick one with people outside. Those are always fun.
Avi Stopper (47:45)
Great, well, I am looking forward to my next bike ride down Berry now that I understand it in a lot more detail. Elizabeth Adams, thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it.
Elizabeth Adams (47:55)
Yeah, great, thank you, thank you so much.
Avi Stopper (47:59)
Thanks for listening. If you have questions, comments, or suggestions for guests you'd like to hear from, drop us a line at [email protected]. Bike Networks Now is a production of Bike Streets. Anyone should be able to ride a bike to any destination in their city today. You can learn more about our work at bikestreets.com.
