Today I sit down with Leo Lok, a retired practitioner of Chinese medicine who now teaches and consults with practitioners treating difficult cases of meditation sickness. Together, we discuss how to think about the challenging side-effects of meditation through the lens of the ancestral Chinese arts of qi regulation. Along the way, we discuss the surprising power of ocular alignment, how to gradually condition oneself for spiritual heavy lifting, and medieval Chinese emergency treatments for meditation practice gone wrong.

If you want to hear scholars and practitioners engaging in deep conversations about the dark side of Asian religions and medicines, then subscribe to Black Beryl wherever you get your podcasts. Also check out our members-only benefits on Substack.com to see what our guests have shared with you. Enjoy the show!

Resources mentioned in this episode: 

• Leo's chapter on Chinese physicians will appear in Pierce's forthcoming book, Meditation Sickness: An Anthology on the Dangers of Meditation Practice. (Get notified when this is published.)
• Zhiyi's (538–597) magnum opus on meditation in the Chinese Buddhist tradition, translated by Paul Swanson
• Pierce discusses medieval Chinese approaches to meditation sickness, including Zhiyi's advice for meditators, in an open access article in Journal of Buddhist Ethics.
• See Leo's recommended YouTube instructional video on the six healing breaths.
• Leo's new website is under construction

Become a paid subscriber on blackberyl.substack.com to unlock our members-only benefits, including downloading:

• Pierce's 2017 translation of the complete "Chapter on Illness" from Zhiyi's Shorter Treatise on Śamatha and Vipaśyanā. 

Today I sit down with Susannah Deane, a scholar of Tibetan medicine, Buddhism, and psychiatry. Together, we delve into her work on Tibetan concepts of "wind disorders" and Tantric practice gone wrong. Along the way, we talk about losing control of spirits, becoming a deity, and how Tibetans choose between religious and medical specialists when spiritual practice goes off the rails.

If you want to hear scholars and practitioners engaging in deep conversations about the dark side of Asian religions and medicines, then subscribe to Black Beryl wherever you get your podcasts. Also check out our members-only benefits on Substack.com to see what our guests have shared with you. Enjoy the show!

Resources mentioned in this episode: 

• Susannah Deane, Tibetan Medicine, Buddhism and Psychiatry: Mental Health and Healing in a Tibetan Exile Community (2018).
• Salguero, Cheung, and Deane (eds.), Buddhism and Healing in the Modern World (2024).
• Susannah Deane, Illness and Enlightenment: Exploring Tibetan Perspectives on Madness in Text and Everyday Life (2025).
• Susannah's Academia.edu profile

Become a paid subscriber on blackberyl.substack.com to unlock our members-only benefits, including downloading:

• High resolution image of the Tibetan subtle body system 
• Susannah's chapter “For This Kind of Thing, the Lama Is Better: Religion, Medicine, and the Treatment of 'Madness' among Tibetans in Amdo," from Buddhism and Healing in the Modern World

Today I sit down with Richard Saville-Smith, an independent scholar of madness, religion, and psychiatry. We discuss Richard’s book Acute Religious Experiences (2023), which argues that frameworks from Mad Studies can get us out from under the academy’s current habit of either pathologizing or sanitizing religious experiences. Along the way, we talk about the power struggle between psychiatry & the humanities, the influence of Queer Studies on Richard’s work, and his reinterpretation of Jesus as a madman.   

If you want to hear scholars and practitioners engaging in deep conversations about the dark side of Asian religions and medicines, then subscribe to Black Beryl wherever you get your podcasts. Also check out our members-only benefits on Substack.com to see what our guests have shared with you. Enjoy the show!

Resources mentioned in this episode: 

• Acute Religious Experiences: Madness, Psychosis and Religious Studies (2023)

Become a paid subscriber on blackberyl.substack.com to unlock our members-only benefits, including downloading:

• Chapter 10 from Richard's book, which presents his D.R.E.A.D. framework for acute religious experiences.

Today I sit down with Willoughby Britton and Jared Lindahl, the interdisciplinary team from Brown University that is responsible for the “Varieties of Contemplative Experience” study on the challenges and adverse effects of meditation. We talk about the design, findings, and outcomes of the study, and how it opened up a new field of interdisciplinary investigation. Along the way we ask: if someone suffers harm from practicing meditation, whose fault is it? What is the ultimate cause? And who gets to interpret the experience? 

If you want to hear scholars and practitioners engaging in deep conversations about the dark side of Asian religions and medicines, then subscribe to Black Beryl wherever you get your podcasts. Also check out our members-only benefits on Substack.com to see what our guests have shared with you. Enjoy the show!

Resources mentioned in this episode: 

• Complete Varieties of Contemplative Experience study publications list
• Willoughby on the Mind & Life Podcast
• Willoughby & Jared on The Trauma-Sensitive Mindfulness Podcast
• “The Varieties of Contemplative Experience: A Mixed-Methods Study of Meditation-Related Challenges in Western Buddhists” (2017)
• “The Roles and Impacts of Worldviews on the Onset and Trajectory of Meditation-Related Challenges” (2022)
• “The Teacher Matters: The Role and Impact of Meditation Teachers in the Trajectories of Western Buddhist Meditators Experiencing Meditation-Related Challenges” (2025)
• “Progress or Pathology? Differential Diagnosis and Intervention Criteria for Meditation-Related Challenges: Perspectives from Buddhist Meditation Teachers and Practitioners.”
• CheetahHouse.org

Become a paid subscriber on blackberyl.substack.com to unlock our members-only benefits, including downloads of these PDFs:

• “Challenging and Adverse Meditation Experiences: Toward A Person-Centered Approach” (2021)
• “Prevalence of meditation-related adverse effects in a population-based sample in the United States” (2021)

Today I sit down with Dr. Daniel M. Ingram, a retired ER physician, co-founder of the Emergent Phenomena Research Consortium, CEO of Emergence Benefactors, and a noted adept in Buddhist meditation. Together we explore “emergent phenomena,” or the spiritual, mystical, magical, energetic, and psychedelic possibilities at the deep end of human experience. Along the way, we discuss dark nights of the soul, ontological fruit salad, brain scans of peak meditation states, and warning labels on spiritual practice. 

If you want to hear scholars and practitioners engaging in deep conversations about the dark side of Asian religions and medicines, then subscribe to Black Beryl wherever you get your podcasts. 

Resources mentioned in this episode:

• Links to all Daniel's stuff
• Emergent Phenomena Research Consortium
• Emergent Benefactors 
• Daniel M. Ingram, Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha (2018) website | book
• DharmaOverground.org
• Olivier Sandilands & Daniel M. Ingram, Documenting and defining emergent phenomenology: theoretical foundations for an extensive research strategy (2024)
• Avijit Chowdhury et al., Investigation of advanced mindfulness meditation “cessation” experiences using EEG spectral analysis in an intensively sampled case study (2022) 
• Malcolm J. Wright et al., Altered States of Consciousness are Prevalent and Insufficiently Supported Clinically: A Population Survey (2024)
• Pierce Salguero, The Secret Spiritual Lives of Buddhist Studies Scholars (2024)

Become a paid subscriber on blackberyl.substack.com to unlock our members-only benefits, including PDFs of these resources. 

Today I sit down with Josh Schrei, storyteller, sound artist, and host of The Emerald Podcast. Josh helps us to embrace and center the spirit world in our understanding of contemporary Buddhism. Along the way, we talk about Tibetan weather makers, shamanic battle, the trance-inducing effect of stories, and how to diplomatically negotiate with animistic forces.

If you want to hear scholars and practitioners engaging in deep conversations about the dark side of Asian religions and medicines, then subscribe to Black Beryl wherever you get your podcasts. Enjoy the show!

Resources mentioned in this episode:

• The Emerald Podcast: Animism is Normative Consciousness
• The Emerald Podcast: For the Divine Mother of the Universe
• The Emerald Podcast: Why Mindfulness Isn’t Enough
• The Emerald Podcast: Guardians and Protectors!
• Josh's Website: The Mythic Body
• Josh's Patreon

Become a paid subscriber on blackberyl.substack.com to unlock our members-only benefits, including a video lecture by Pierce with a detailed introduction to Thai animist culture and healing practices. For other videos, see courses.piercesalguero.com. 

Today I sit down with Mary Shutan, a spiritual teacher specializing in awakening and shadow work. Our conversation focuses on the weirdness, emotional volatility, darkness, and other challenges that inevitably accompany serious spiritual practice. Along the way, we talk about the diverse range of awakenings, the difficulties of managing kundalini energy, and what to do in the case of a spiritual emergency.

If you want to hear scholars and practitioners engaging in deep conversations about the dark side of Asian religions and medicines, then subscribe to Black Beryl wherever you get your podcasts. You can also check out our members-only benefits on blackberyl.substack.com. Enjoy the show!

Resources mentioned:

• Lan Li, Body Maps: Improvising Meridians and Nerves in Global Chinese Medicine (2025) 
• Pierce Salguero, A Lamp Unto Yourself (2025).
• Mary Shutan, Shadow Work for the Soul: Seeing Beauty in the Dark (2024).
• Mary Shutan, The Spiritual Awakening Guide (2015).
• Mary Shutan, The Body Deva: Working with the Spiritual Consciousness of the Body (2018).
• Mary Shutan, Working with Kundalini: An Experiential Guide to the Process of Awakening (2019).
• Mary's website: maryshutan.com
• Mary's YouTube channel: @MaryShutan 

Resources provided on blackberyl.substack.com:

• Chapter 23 of Mary's new book ("Engaging the Deep Wild")
• Preface & Chapter 1 of Pierce's new book ("Preparing for the Journey")
• Plus, sign up with a paid subscription before the end of the month to receive a bookmark in the mail from Lan Li!   

Today I sit down with Miguel Farias, an experimental psychologist and researcher of religion, spirituality, and cognition. Together we try to get to the bottom of whether meditation is actually good for you through a comparison of Miguel's research on the adverse effects of meditation with my research on Asian notions of meditation sickness. Along the way, we discuss the limitations of modern Western understandings of consciousness, and explore whether we can develop a more expansive, multifaceted understanding of altered states both pleasant and unpleasant.

If you want to hear scholars and practitioners engaging in deep conversations about the dark side of Asian religions and medicines, then subscribe to Black Beryl wherever you get your podcasts. You can also check out our members-only benefits on blackberyl.substack.com. Enjoy the show!

Resources mentioned:

• Miguel Farias and Catherine Wikholm, The Buddha Pill: Can Meditation Change You? (2019).
• Miguel Farias, Oxford Handbook of Meditation (2022).
• Miguel Farias et al, “Adverse Events in Meditation Practices and Meditation-based Therapies: A Systematic Review” (2021).
• Pierce Salguero, “‘Meditation Sickness’ in Medieval Chinese Buddhism and the Contemporary West” (2023). 
• Peter Berger, The Homeless Mind (1973).
• Joseph Henrich et al. article on the Müller-Lyer illusion (2010).
• The source for the term “monophasic bias” is apparently Charles Laughlin’s chapter “Transpersonal Anthropology” in Roger Walsh’s book Paths Beyond Ego (1993).
• Pierce Salguero, A Lamp Unto Yourself (2025).

Resources provided by the interviewee on blackberyl.substack.com:

Introduction to the Oxford Handbook of Meditation

Today I sit down with David Gordon White, a distinguished indologist and scholar of Tantra. Our conversation focuses on David’s most recent project tracing the transregional histories of spirits, gods, demons, and their associated rituals across Eurasia. Along the way, we dive into an intellectual conversation about dog-headed men, angry goddesses, alchemical mercury, body-snatching yogis, the origins of Dracula, and much, much more. 

If you want to hear scholars and practitioners engaging in deep conversations about the dark side of Asian religions and medicines, then subscribe to Black Beryl wherever you get your podcasts. You can also check out our members-only benefits on blackberyl.substack.com. Enjoy the show!

Resources mentioned

• David Gordon White, Daemons are Forever (2021)
• David Gordon White, Myths of the Dog-Man (1991)
• David Gordon White, The Alchemical Body (1997)
• David Gordon White, Kiss of the Yogini (2006)
• David Gordon White, Sinister Yogis (2011)
• Michel Strickmann, Chinese Magical Medicine (2002)
• Michel Strickmann, Mantras et Mandarins (1996)
• David Gordon White, “Three Shades of Tantric Yoga,” in Oxford Handbook of Tantric Studies (2024)
• David Gordon White, "Were-Creatures of the Eurasian Ecumene," Journal Asiatique (2020) 
• David Gordon White, "Dracula’s Family Tree," Gothic Studies (2021)

Resources provided by the interviewee on blackberyl.substack.com:

• PDF of David's chapter in Oxford Handbook of Tantric Studies 
• PDF of David's article, "Were-Creatures of the Eurasian Ecumene"
• PDF of David's article, "Dracula’s Family Tree" 

💀💀 Warning: This episode contains potentially disturbing content! 💀💀

Today I sit down with Justin McDaniel, a scholar of Theravada Buddhist literature and art. Together we explore the darker side of Thai Buddhism, including meditation on decomposing bodies, fetus spirits, corpse oil, and the spectrum of white and black magic. We discuss the logics of rituals, their role in Thai communities, and how a misfit Catholic punk from Philly found himself in a rural Thai monastery.

If you want to hear scholars and practitioners engaging in deep conversations about the dark side of Asian religions and medicines, then subscribe to Black Beryl wherever you get your podcasts. You can also check out our members-only benefits on Substack.com. Enjoy the show!

Resources mentioned in this episode:

• Thai movie Necromancer (2005)
• Justin McDaniel, The Lovelorn Ghost and the Magical Monk: Practicing Buddhism in Modern Thailand (2011)
• Justin McDaniel, Architects of Buddhist Leisure: Socially Disengaged Buddhism in Asia’s Museums, Monuments, and Amusement Parks (2018)
• Justin McDaniel, Wayward Distractions: Ornament, Emotion, Zombies and the Study of Buddhism in Thailand (2021)
• Justin McDaniel, Cosmologies and Biologies: Illuminated Siamese Manuscripts of Death, Time and the Body (2024)
• Press coverage of monasticism course
• Press coverage of existential despair course

Resources provided by the interviewee on blackberyl.substack.com:

• PDF with introduction to The Lovelorn Ghost and the Magical Monk