Blank on Blank

Clark Hewitt Galloway interviewed Fidel Castro in Havana in 1959 in the midst of the Cuban revolution. His story ran in U.S. News & World Report.

Galloway’s granddaughter, Laura Galloway, held on to her grandfather’s interview tape and asked us to bring it to life.

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Laura Galloway: When I was a little girl growing up in Indiana, there was a photo of my grandfather sitting on a sofa with his tape recorder interviewing a man with a beard and a funny hat. And as I got older I came to understand that this was Fidel Castro that my grandfather was interviewing.

Fidel Castro: And if this Revolution falls, what we will have here in Cuba is a hell. Hell itself. Because by the time there will be a million, a million and a half people with no work, people who will not believe in anybody anymore, then it will be a chaos. Trust me, gentleman.

Fidel Castro: Y si esta revolución se precipita lo que vamos a tener aquí es un infierno en Cuba. Un verdadero infierno. Porque cuando haya un millón, un millón y medio de gente sin trabajo, y ya no crean en nadie aquí, entonces va a ser el caos –créame caballero.

Laura Galloway: My grandfather died before I was born, and this is my picture of him in my head. This photo has traveled with me to every city I’ve ever lived in, and has been in every office I’ve worked in, and in my house.

Clark Galloway: So, do you see in this any possible danger for Cuba?

Fidel Castro: The revolution that we are making offers…

Laura Galloway: You’ve got my grandfather leaning in with Castro in a very animated discussion…

Fidel Castro: The Cuban people things that no other social regime in the world can offer today. Do you understand? I have no fear at all of any other ideology. The ideology of the Twenty-sixth of July Movement…

Fidel Castro: Al pueblo de Cuba lo que ningún régimen social en el mundo le ofrece actualmente. ¿Comprende? Yo no tengo ningún temor a ninguna ideología del 26 de julio…

Laura Galloway: …and you can see the plush velvet curtains behind them and imagine them stiff with cigar smoke.

Fidel Castro: …which is the ideology of social justice within the limits of the over-arching democracy, liberty and human rights, is the most beautiful thing that can be promised to a man.

Fidel Castro: … que es la ideología de un sistema social dentro del más amplio concepto de la democracia, de la libertad y de los derechos humanos. Es la promesa más hermosa que se le puede hacer al hombre.

Laura Galloway: And maybe there’s a scotch somewhere sitting on a side table.

Clark Galloway: As you may have heard, rumor has it that your brother, Maj. Raul Castro, and Maj. Ernesto Guevara are communists or communist enthusiasts. Those are the rumors. I’d like you to comment on this.

Clark Galloway: Como usted debe haber oído ha habido rumores de que el mayor Raúl Castro y el mayor Ernesto Guevara son comunistas o simpatizantes del comunismo. Esos son los rumores. Quisiera que usted haga algún comentario sobre eso.

Fidel Castro: The Twenty-sixth of July Movement is a party of radical ideas, but it is not a Communist movement and it differs from communism in several respects. In a series of essential respects. Do you understand? And in the Twenty-sixth of July Movement there are men like Raul and like Guevara who are very much in agreement with my political thinking.

Fidel Castro: El Movimiento 26 de Julio es un movimiento de ideas radicales. Pero no es un movimiento comunista. Y difiere fundamentalmente del comunismo en una serie de cuestiones. En una serie de cuestiones esenciales. ¿Comprende? Y el Movimiento 26 de Julio, los hombres, tanto Raúl como Guevara, como todos son hombres que están muy de acuerdo con el pensamiento político mío. No es un pensamiento comunista.

Laura Galloway: A few years ago, beneath piles and piles of articles and stories and letters that my grandfather had written, under the albums and more albums of calling cards from ambassadors and presidents. All of people that he had met and interviewed throughout his life. I found a single cassette tape that simply said “Galloway-slash-Castro.”

Clark Galloway: As a Prime Minister, you have an important work to do.

Clark Galloway: Como primer ministro usted tiene un gran trabajo.

Laura Galloway: I’d actually never heard my grandfather’s voice before. So to hear his voice doing this interview was just absolutely incredible to me.

Clark Galloway: How are you going to put the Government’s matters in order? Would it be possible to delegate some of your responsibilities?

Clark Galloway: ¿Cómo usted va a ordenar los asuntos del gobierno? ¿Sería posible delegar algunas de sus responsabilidades?

Fidel Castro: I have a lot of work. Because mine is an administrative function, but it is also a political one. I have to talk to the people, guide them, encourage them…

Fidel Castro: Yo tengo mucho trabajo. Porque la función mía es administrativa, pero también es política. Tengo que hablar con el pueblo, orientarlo, animarlo…

Laura Galloway: What’s really fascinating about this tape are all the sounds that you can hear in the background. Matches being struck. Cigars being smoked. You can hear the ding of a typewriter in the background. And just a lot of ambient noise that lends color to what the moment in time actually looked like.

Clark Galloway: What is your position in regard to the United States base in Guantanamo?

Clark Galloway: ¿Cuál es su parecer acerca de la base naval de los Estados Unidos en Guantánamo?

Fidel Castro: There have been some minor conflicts arising from the fact that sailors always let them disembark, to go to Guantanamo for example. Of course, it was economically convenient because they spent money. But they were thousands of sailors and they were going to certain places for entertainment. And they did not know their way around well and would often come by the houses of decent people and knocked at any home. It is a problem. I am highly concerned about preventing even the slightest incident from happening. Do you understand?

Fidel Castro: Ha habido algunos pequeños conflictos originados en el hecho de que los marinos los dejaban siempre desembarcar, ir a Guantánamo por ejemplo. Claro que económicamente convenía porque compraban. Pero iban miles de marinos e iban a ciertos sitios de diversión. No conocían bien y muchas veces llegaban a las casas de las personas decentes y tocaban a cualquier casa. Es un problema. Sobre todo a mi me preocupa mucho que no vaya a ocurrir ni el menor incidente. ¿Usted se da cuenta?

Clark Galloway: Well, it seems that there are no issues of whether or not the United States continues to occupy the base on the present terms.

Clark Galloway: Pues parece que no hay problemas de sí o no los Estados Unidos siga ocupando la base en los términos actuales.

Fidel Castro: We have other problems which are of more interest for us. If we can maintain friendly relations with the United States. I see no reason why conflicts can arise.

Fidel Castro: Nosotros tenemos otros problemas que nos interesan más. Si nosotros mantenemos relaciones podemos mantener relaciones amistosas con Estados Unidos. Pues, yo no veo peligro de que se produzcan conflictos.

Laura Galloway: What’s remarkable is at the end of the interview, and that’s when Fidel Castro actually asks somewhat of a rhetorical question about my grandfather. He says: maybe people will think that you’re a communist…?

Fidel Castro: Perhaps they call you communist because you wrote an article favorable to the Cuban Revolution and they want to investigate you in the Senate of the United States.

Fidel Castro: Posiblemente a lo mejor a usted le dicen comunista porque ha hecho un artículo a favor de la Revolución cubana y le quieren hacer una investigación en el Senado en Estados Unidos.

Clark Galloway. No, señor. [Laughter]

Laura Galloway: My grandfather did this interview in 1959 and he actually died in January 1961. He was really deeply surprised by the fact that Castro became an overt communist. And he had not really anticipated that at the time. He thought that Batista was a terrible sadist and this would be a very positive change for Cuba. But things turned out very differently of course.

So my grandfather served as a colonel in army intelligence for Latin America during World War II. And after the war he returned to journalism. And he was purely a newsman as far as I know. But he was a really good intelligence officer. And I wouldn’t know today in the year 2013 whether or not he had a double life. But I don’t think so.

CLARK GALLOWAY: So, what are the changes you want to make in Cuba up next?

FIDEL CASTRO: Well, fundamentally the problem of Cuba is a problem of creation in the country more than one of change. It is as if we have been fenced in for many decades.

Our most serious problem [is] that population grows constantly and, by contrast, the sources of employment do not increase. And, to the same extent in which industry adopts new technology and needs fewer and fewer workers, our population grows, and we find ourselves in a vicious circle from which there is no escape –men who have no work and who, therefore, cannot consume. And [there is] an industry that cannot be developed if it does not have consumers.

We cannot compete with the European industry in machinery, in manufactured products; nor with the U.S. industry. Our industry has to be an industry of consumption –mainly of domestic consumption. And it is not possible to develop an industry unless you have buyers.

However, how is it possible to give work to the people by other means than by industrializing the country? Our big problem is the hundreds of thousands of men who are out of work.

CLARK GALLOWAY: What kind of industries? Which kind do you think of , for instance?

FIDEL CASTRO: Mainly, foodstuff industries, textile industries and also industries to produce manufactured products for nationwide consumption. Our industry cannot hope to compete, particularly with foreign industry; therefore it must be developed on the basis of domestic consumption; to produce the largest possible quantity of articles and goods to be consumed within the country.

CLARK GALLOWAY: Then, how much time do you think you will need to develop that program?

FIDEL CASTRO: First of all I have to tell you that our first step must be to create consumers. We ourselves have to create consumers. Today, [our goal is] to make possible that a considerable part of our people become consumers. Only from there you can develop the industry of our country. And then…

CLARK GALLOWAY: For that you need money…

FIDEL CASTRO: Well, yes, but no. We first need consumers. Even if we had capital to establish industries, if we do not have people who buy, that industry will not be able to develop. It would be anti-economic. The first issue is not to have mon… to have capital. The main problem is to have consumers for the industry. And then, have the capital to set those industries. But the essential point, the basics, is to have a population who consumes industrial products. And we are going to get that through the agrarian reform.

CLARK GALLOWAY: How much will such a program cost?

FIDEL CASTRO: Well, that depends, because you have to distinguish between the industrialization program and the public works program that should be carried out to meet many needs.

Any Cuban town, out of the 200 or 300 towns that are more or less important, has a series of pressing needs that never have been satisfied.

You go to the towns and they ask you for school centers, they ask for hospitals, they ask for sewers, they ask for street paving, they ask for waterworks, they ask for schools, they ask for public health, they ask for trucks to use in cleaning the streets, they ask for squares, they ask for marketplaces—buildings where they could sell their produce, and all kind of works. For instance, they ask you for water-purification plants.

They demand so much—I am making a census of all their needs. I have asked all the active citizens in each town to tell me what things do they need and in what order they would like to have the Government provide them. I estimate that, to meet all these needs, it will be necessary to invest at least 2 billion pesos in public works. To meet the needs in all these towns. The needs for roads, for highways …

CLARK GALLOWAY: Where will the money come from?

FIDEL CASTRO: Well, that money comes from within, from the increase in tax collection –from the increase in the Government’s income in the same measure in which the standard of living is raised. I think that, in three years, we shall have doubled our budgets.

CLARK GALLOWAY: Oh, really?

FIDEL CASTRO: Nowadays, already after two months there is a surplus of 40 million –no, of 25 million pesos as the result of the increase in tax collection. So, the capital for industries [will be] partly national and partly from abroad, foreign. Now, we do not want this capital to come in on the basis of … Basically, we want to have capital loaned to us so that we can invest it through the credit agencies of the country. Because if capital comes from abroad and is invested directly, we have to pay interest, which is the cost of capital, interest. We have to amortize the capital. And yet after we have amortized the borrowed capital, there is nothing left for ourselves. Do you understand?

CLARK GALLOWAY: Yes, of course.

FIDEL CASTRO: We want to have capital loaned to us. Then, we return the capital plus the interest. But by the time we had amortized the loaned capital, what is left remains here for us. We amortize the capital for ourselves, not for somebody else. Do you understand?

CLARK GALLOWAY: You do not want…

FIDEL CASTRO: Because we pay back the capital, return it, and therefore the capital remains here. Do you understand? Otherwise, we would have to amortize it one time, two times, ten times. We would have to keep on amortizing for the rest of our lives. Just like if you borrowed 100 pesos and you would have to be paying the 100 pesos back for the rest of your life. Do you understand? [Laughter] Plus interest.

CLARK GALLOWAY: Where would this capital come from?

FIDEL CASTRO: It could come from the United States, it could come from England, it could come from France, it could come from Germany.

CLARK GALLOWAY: … from governmental banks of these countries or from commercial banks?

FIDEL CASTRO: There seems to be an abundance of capital in the world at this moment, because we have received many offers of loans and investments. Many offers from elsewhere. Especially because they see that our Government is honest. And upon seeing that our Government is honest they feel great confidence. Besides, because they see that we have decided to repay the pending debts of the dictatorship. So, we have not refused to pay them.

CLARK GALLOWAY: Which countries do you receive money from?

FIDEL CASTRO: The United Sta… I want to explain to you, that [they are] many. The Government, the Batista dictatorship, incur in debt for 1.2 billion pesos . We could have denied it, because the Government was not legitimate. But we understood that this would unsettle too much the economy of the country. It was more convenient to accept the responsibility of that debt. That would create high confidence in those willing to invest money. If we do not neglect those debts, then everybody can be sure that they can invest here, that they can lend us, that nobody will neglect debts by any means, even if the Government fell. Do you understand?

CLARK GALLOWAY: Yes.

FIDEL CASTRO: Even if it changes, it does not matter. If there has been such a change now and we [accept] the debts…

CLARK GALLOWAY: What you want are loans, not stockholders.

FIDEL CASTRO: Well, it does not mean that it is an exclusivist policy. We prefer, we prefer to receive the loans and pay them back. To pay the capital back and the interest. That way, when we have amortized the capital, it remains here for us… when we cancel the debt the factories and the industries are left. The other way, we would be paying for those factories forever. And it would be a constant outflow of currency. You know that the currency issue is essential to every country nowadays.

CLARK GALLOWAY: Yes.

FIDEL CASTRO: A smart policy should be one that tends to receive the capitals, pays the price for that capital –which is the interest– returns the capital and in the end the factories, the industries, are left here to remain in the country.

CLARK GALLOWAY: Is it true that some of the North American firms in Cuba are going to be nationalized?

FIDEL CASTRO: Nothing has been said here about nationalization.

CLARK GALLOWAY: Actually?

FIDEL CASTRO: Yes, nothing has been said– is the gunshot of nine o’clock, do not worry. Yes, yes, there is… No, nothing has been said here about nationalization. We have not raised that question. We can revise some of the concessions made by the Batista dictatorship because they are onerous concessions and they are against the economy of the country.

We haven’t spoken here of nationalizations because our economic problems are different, they are fundamental, such as, for example, carrying out our agrarian reform and develop the country, industrially wise. As far as public services are concerned, they are diversified. For example, some of them are furnished by several companies and ourselves at different prices, different rates. This is a problem that we have to study and solve, but we haven’t raised the nationalization of any public service as a key issue.

CLARK GALLOWAY: Can you explain, in a few words, your agrarian reform program?

FIDEL CASTRO: The agrarian reform program is as follows: Here in Cuba we have about 200,000 –200 no, between 200,000 and 300,000 families who are farmers and who own no land. Those farmers work two or three months a year, during the sugar season only. They have no work for the rest of the year. They have no land to sow or to produce the most necessary goods for consumption. Many of those farmers come to the city looking for jobs, and they increase the number of unemployed people in the city. This rural population is who we have to try turn into consumers.

More than half of the country is rural, so we have to convert those farmers into consumers. Those farmers will never become consumers until they do not have land to produce goods. The agrarian reform will increase many times the purchasing power of the farmer, and it will be the base for the industrial development in Cuba. We think… There are the lands of the State and the private lands, and we think that there should be set a maximum limit to the farms devoted to each different kind of production.

CLARK GALLOWAY: For example, sugar?

FIDEL CASTRO: We are studying this matter. I am favorable to setting a limit on sugar lands as well. Now, that would be good for sugar factories because there has been a law for many years which prohibits sugar-mill owners and sugar factories from having cane land of their own. So what they did to evade the law was: They established a company which was the owner of the sugar factory, and another company which was the owner of the sugar-cane plantations, and it was the same thing; they evaded the law. An industrial company must be industrial and not agricultural and industrial at the same time.

The sugar factories cannot compete in the world market with a good price for sugar nowadays because of their high costs. It is very expensive because the sugar mills are obsolete. If the sugar mills tried to modernize with technology, to improve, the result would be that there would be too many workmen unemployed, or, they would have to work half the time a year. That is, it would create a serious social conflict.

The only way the sugar industry can be technologically improved is through the agrarian reform, which will draw off from that industry the excess of personnel who is demanding work. Do you understand? They have to modernize themselves through the agrarian reform.

What are they going to lose? They are not going to lose anything, because they are going to have the sugar cane to grind, more sugar cane to grind, and better conditions for improving their machinery.

Otherwise, there would be an eternal argument between an increasing number of workmen asking for work and an industry that has not progressed at all during the last 30 years, and an industry which cannot progress if is not improved. Thus, the agrarian reform does not mean any loss.

We will indemnify them for the land. If we have no cash –and we will probably not have enough to indemnify them for all that– we can indemnify them in bonds. Bonds which will have the guarantee of a honest Government, which can be sold on the market. Bonds with interest, at the shortest possible term. I am thinking today, unless people who are more expert than I am in this matter would differ from my opinion, that we could make the bonds run 10 or 15 years. These could be traded, and then we could ask the industrial businessmen, the sugar-mill owners, and the great producers of sugar cane and cattle to invest those bonds in industries, because we are willing to give all guarantees to industries, with the condition that they pay high wages.

CLARK GALLOWAY: And how much will it cost, the agrarian reform program?

FIDEL CASTRO: I cannot work it out exactly at this time. Because we would first have to decide on the maximum limit, the lands that would be segregated and their appraised value. But if we pay with bonds we can pay a better price than we could in cash. And yet the money that is received in bonds, bonds which are guaranteed by the Cuban state, they can be traded like those from BANDES and the National Bank have been. Cuban bonds are sold in the market and they are sold at good prices. By compensating them with bonds all that we are asking is that the indemnification received they invest in the industry here in the country. Do you understand? Then, what the big… the landowners have to do is to become industrial. Do you understand? And they can establish industries that will have an assured market. And that will mean the solution of the problem for the sugar factories. Because, I will tell you: do you think we can live in this hectic state of permanent conflict between corporations and workers? In a conflict that is getting worse. A conflict that is escalating.

CLARK GALLOWAY: Cuba depends to a great extent on its sugar exports. Do you think that this dependency should be reduced?

FIDEL CASTRO: Well, it is convenient for us to sell to the United States, and it is convenient for the United States to buy from us. Because it is also true that in the difficult times the United States has gone through it has always had a fantastic sugar produce in Cuba. It is in the interest of the United States that this source be preserved, because sugar is a basic good for the United States, and we can produce it cheaper here than they can there.

We could offer to the American people a cheaper price than today’s price. Do you understand? Yet the United States Government makes people pay a higher price because it is protecting certain sugar interests in that country. Land in the United States and produce wheat, it can produce other things that are subsidized. We could favor the American people in the future by selling them all the sugar they want, much cheaper than today.

Talk to the American people and tell them that we can if it is true that, on the one hand, United States policy benefits certain farmers with a completely artificial industry, we could benefit the whole American population by selling them sugar at a cheaper price than today’s. Americans like sweet things a lot, and we can offer them all they want and keep good relations.

Because, you see, the United States is such a rich country… so powerful industrially, agriculturally, that what they earn… what the trade with Cuba means economically in terms of money –well, it does not matter [woman: … they are waiting for you] It does not matter –in terms of money is a very small fraction of their great economic power, of their large wealth. It looks selfish to us that once we talk about our wish to produce rice, to produce [edible] oil in order to save us part of what we import, we are threatened and they say that they will not buy sugar from us. Because, ultimately, what the United States would lose in those trades is just a millionth of the United States wealth. Do you understand? It makes no sense to raise enmity with us, for 100 or 200 million pesos that would mean what we buy in foods.

We will always have to buy cars, radios, TV sets. We will always have to. But the United States does not depend on their trade with Cuba. At the same time, Cuba depends on the currency it can save to develop its industry. We don’t ask the United States to give away dollars to us. We are not saying to the United States: send us one billion pesos. With one billion pesos we solve our problems. We raise the question in terms of justice. If we do not defend our currency, if we do not develop the country industrially, where are we heading to? To a complete mess! If the Revolution does not make these laws, the Revolution will lose its authority. It will lose its morale, its reputation. And if this Revolution falls, what we will have here in Cuba is a hell. Hell itself. Because by the time there will be a million, a million and a half people with no work, people who will not believe in anybody anymore, then it will be a chaos. Trust me, gentleman.

We can start making an orderly, studied, planned revolution. I have often had to stand and tell the farmers not to occupy the land that way, because the land must be distributed in an orderly manner. We cannot make a large agricultural enterprise from the small, isolated farms, because it does not make sense economically. No, it would not yield at a low cost. We have to replace the large companies with large companies. That is to say, by gathering all farmers to have a large company as one, like having a corporation. And then by having them use equipment, expensive equipment, and use the best techniques in the world. Have you seen Bohemia nowadays? Bohemia has now launched an appeal for a fund for me to handle. Do you know what I will be into? Tractors. Everything about tractors and irrigation equipment, springs, everything. So then we will produce in Cuba under the best technical conditions possible in the world.

The most modern equipment in the world we are going to buy it for agriculture. As good as those which exist in the United States. And our land has an advantage over the land in the United States: it produces two to three crops a year because there is no cold. With fertilizers, with irrigation, we can produce more cheaply than the United States. For now, the United States produces corn cheaper than us. Half the price. [They produce] rice cheaper than us. And why is this? Even though they cannot harvest more than one crop of corn a year. Why is this? Because they produce with a very modern technique… at a very low cost. Well, we are going to get two crops with the same technique as the United States.

We are going to produce very cheaply. Do you understand? And all that money I am going to invest it in tractors. In tractors, in equipment, in irrigation and everything related. Then, in the countryside, we will produce through large farmer cooperatives. Cooperatives that will distribute the profits evenly. Now I have some already settled in lands that belonged to accomplices of Batista, Batista’s partners. I’ve made a cooperative and is going very well. Right there they have a cooperative of agricultural production and their consumer cooperative. They have their own store, the first one I ever did. And they had to set [prices] 20% more expensive, because it would otherwise ruin the small shops around.

CLARK GALLOWAY: Speaking about sugar, if the sugar sales in the United States dropped, this would affect Cuba a lot, wouldn’t it?

FIDEL CASTRO: Yes, I think it would affect it. Of course. But I do not see any reason why the sugar sales would drop. It would be unfair, for every time the United States has had a difficult situation, they had in Cuba a source of supply and of raw materials, and what the American soldiers like the most is sugar. Every soldier likes sugar the most. It is not convenient for the United States that the Cuban sugar industry is ruined. It is not convenient for them.

CLARK GALLOWAY: How do you feel about the trade between Cuba and the communist countries?

FIDEL CASTRO: Well, I think that we should sell to them if they buy from us. Because, what are we going to do if we have products left and they want to buy them? That’s what the United States does, and England and all the other countries.

CLARK GALLOWAY: So, do you see in this any possible danger for Cuba?

FIDEL CASTRO: In what sense?

CLARK GALLOWAY: … of infiltration or …

FIDEL CASTRO: There can be no danger if we do what Cubans want, if we provide social justice and solve the substantial material problems of all Cubans in a climate of liberty, of respect for individual rights, of freedom of the press and thought, of democracy, of liberty to elect their own Government.

The revolution that we are making offers the Cuban people things that no other social regime in the world can offer today. Do you understand?

I have no fear at all of any other ideology. The ideology of the Twenty-sixth of July Movement, which is the ideology of social justice within the limits of the over-arching democracy, liberty and human rights, is the most beautiful thing that can be promised to a man.

CLARK GALLOWAY: Sure.

FIDEL CASTRO: Why should we be frightened? We do not have to be afraid.

CLARK GALLOWAY: Do you know if the communist countries would offer Cuba the goods it needs to import?

FIDEL CASTRO: Well, I have not looked into that. I have not considered that possibility. And I have not considered it, honestly, because I have believed that we would keep on selling sugar to the United States, mainly. And we will continue to buy a lot from the United States. I have not thought about the other problem. If the other problem presents to me [smiling] I will have to look into it, don’t you think?

CLARK GALLOWAY: As a Prime Minister, you have an important work to do. How are you going to put in order the Government’s matters? Would it be possible to delegate some of your responsibilities?

FIDEL CASTRO: Well, you have seen that we have several ministers. They are very skilled. The Minister of Labour. The Minister of Economy. The Minister of Public Works. They are a number of colleagues who are really hard workers. And what I do, every day, I bring to them… if there is a loan offer for an industry project I sent it to the Minister of Economy, and I sent it to the Minister of Agriculture. Every day I delegate more and more work and bring it to them, and I consult them. I meet twice a week with them. And there we discuss at length. If I wanted to have less work… I wish I had less work. I have a lot of work. Because mine is an administrative function, but it is also a political one. I have to talk to the people, guide them, encourage them, tell them to calm down, to be patient. I am the one to control the problems with the people.

CLARK GALLOWAY: What is your position in regard to the United States base in Guantanamo?

FIDEL CASTRO: That is a problem that has not been discussed here. It has not been discussed. There have been some minor conflicts arising from the fact that sailors always let them disembark, to go to Guantanamo for example, they allowed them to go to Guantanamo every festive week. Of course, it was economically convenient because they spent money. But they were thousands of sailors and they were going to certain places for entertainment. And they did not know around well and would often come by the houses of decent people and knocked at any home. It is a problem. There is some conflict between them when they go on vacation, when they go off for the weekend, it created conflicts between them and the decent families. That many sailors would go wrong, drank, and got in a house. Those situations, at the time of Batista, caused no impact because everyone suffered these things quietly. But now, you understand, anything of the like causes a great impression, because people see the rectifying purpose of the Revolution, therefore they speak up about all that has been wrong, all they did not like. Do you understand? They explain it in a moment in which it can create resentment. I am highly concerned about preventing even the slightest incident from happening. Do you understand? Therefore, in regard to the visits, I am an advocate of waiting as much as possible, right? In places where there have been problems like Guantanamo, Santiago, well, I would like that we put all the efforts to be well organized, well ordered, so that visits could occur without frictions. Because there is no animosity in the people, no animosity against them, you know? But this is a moment in which any small incident can become of importance. Do you understand?

CLARK GALLOWAY: Well, it seems that there are no issues of whether or not the United States continues to occupy the base on the present terms.

FIDEL CASTRO: That demand has not arisen. We have other problems. We have other problems which are of more interest for us. We have economic and social problems. If we can maintain friendly relations with the United States –commercial, political, diplomatic– I see no reason why conflicts can arise.

CLARK GALLOWAY: Do you favor having Cuba serve as a base for military operations against the Dominican Republic or other countries?

FIDEL CASTRO: Well, I am going to tell you what I think about that. We have work to do here. [Laughter] We are planning a work. What worries me mainly –I am going to answer you with complete frankness– what worries me in these moments are the problems of Cuba. What interests me is the problems of Cuba and the work that we have to accomplish. All right, that is not to say that you could be so selfish as to regard with indifference the suffering of other people in Latin America.

Trujillo is a danger to Cuba. Trujillo is a danger to Latin America.

Trujillo agents murder their enemies outside the state. They murder their enemies, like Galide in the United States. They murder Requena in the United States. They kill their enemies in Cuba. They kill their enemies in Mexico. They kill their enemies anywhere. Moreover, when I made the trip to Venezuela, and in the morning I asked if we were in Venezuela, which coasts were those, they told me they were the coast of Colombia. And I asked the pilot why we had come to Colombia. And they replied, “because the routes to Venezuela pass too close to Santo Domingo.” And they would not risk going near Santo Domingo in case a plane of Trujillo did any misdemeanor. Trujillo is a kind of dictator of the Caribbean and Latin America who does not respect other countries laws. Trujillo does not respect the law of any country.

We could seek out Batista anywhere if we wanted to. Here we have enough volunteers to go and kill Batista in the United States, in Mexico, wherever he might be. However, we shall never accept or promote or support any action outside our national territory, because we respect the laws of other countries. Trujillo does not respect them. Trujillo has established a “continental” dictatorship. Do you understand?

In a certain sense it is logical that a democratic government and we democratic Cubans would have an approving view about any movement against Trujillo, but for us to intervene directly in the problems of Santo Domingo, we shall not intervene directly in Santo Domingo. Do you understand?

Now, here in Cuba the exiles from any country can come to live. They can come to live. And, naturally, the same in Cuba as in Venezuela, I know that Dominicans in particular get much sympathy. I am not going to…

[Cut]

There has not been yet decided the exact date for the purpose of Government, but to make it as soon as possible. I will tell you this: the Government’s purpose of making it was discussed [about being in] two years. The Government’s idea is to call to elections in two years. Usually in these countries… in these countries, when there is a revolution–coups, not revolutions–, then the interest of the rulers as they have no popular support, is to postpone elections as much as possible to try to win.

Our case is the other way around. We have the ninety-some percent of the people. We cannot fear any election. We cannot be afraid to lose an election because we are sure that we will win. But what I am quite worried about is that in this moment when we are reorganizing the State, demanding much righteousness, much discipline, we may end up putting a lot of energy in politics. Do you understand? That we may turn people into having aspirations. Because I do not want good public officers aspiring for the Senate. [I want them to] continue to be public officers. I quite worry about the possibility of catching all the elements who are working in the public office and who are progressing a lot, to have them turn into politics. It is better that they are a little afraid of doing that. It is the only part that worries me of politics. Do you understand? That we may waste energy in those things.

CLARK GALLOWAY: So, the Twenty-sixth of July will organize itself as a political party.

FIDEL CASTRO: Of course, as a political party.

CLARK GALLOWAY: In the incoming elections, will you allow all other political parties to take part, including the Popular Socialist Party?

FIDEL CASTRO: If they meet the requirements established by the electoral law…

CLARK GALLOWAY: If they asked you to be one of the presidential candidates, would you accept?

FIDEL CASTRO: In regard to that I would do what the direction of the Twenty-sixth of July Movement decides, but I think that the Twenty-sixth of July Movement is strong enough to win by its own strength. The Twenty-sixth of July Movement has … the Twenty-sixth of July Movement can win with its sole strength. The Twenty-sixth of July Movement does not need political treaties in order to succeed in revolutionary elections, in elections.

CLARK GALLOWAY: Last question: As you may have heard…

FIDEL CASTRO: …I tell you… yes, because I do not want to make these kind of statements that may look like I am in an divisive mood. At this moment, no issues of political nature have been raised in the country. I want to devote my undivided attention to a revolutionary work, conscious that it will consolidate the Twenty-sixth of July Movement, the democratic movement, the revolutionary movement, a movement of the people’s forces, a very large one.

CLARK GALLOWAY: … as you may have heard, rumors has it that your brother, Maj. Raul Castro, and Maj. Ernesto Guevara are communists or communist enthusiasts. Those are the rumors. I’d like you to comment on this.

FIDEL CASTRO: Well, I am going to tell you my opinion about that. Here in Cuba politics always has been very traditional, very conservative, and there never existed any revolutionary hope. Many young people leaned to the left rather than sympathize with the traditional political parties that existed.

From the moment when it was organized in Cuba the Twenty-sixth of July Movement –which is a truly revolutionary movement, which intends to build the economy of the country on just foundations, which is at the same time a revolutionary movement and a democratic movement with ample human content– this movement has absorbed into its ranks many people who formerly had no political alternative of any kind and who included toward parties of non-radical ideas.

The Twenty-sixth of July Movement is a party of radical ideas, but it is not a Communist movement and it differs from communism in several respects. In a series of essential respects. Do you understand?

And in the Twenty-sixth of July Movement there are men like Raul and like Guevara who are very much in agreement with my political thinking.

CLARK GALLOWAY: Then, they are not communists?

FIDEL CASTRO: The thinking of the Twenty-sixth of July Movement is not communistic.

And the trend I could say to you is that if we looked, it is possible that in the United States you also have many left-leaned ideas also within democratic parties. Perhaps they call you communist because you wrote an article favorable to the Cuban Revolution and they want to investigate you in the Senate of the United States.

CG. No, Sir.

Translation by Sebastian Betti

CLARK GALLOWAY: Pues, ¿cuáles son los cambios que desea usted hacer en Cuba en breve?

FIDEL CASTRO: Bueno, fundamentalmente el problema de Cuba más que un problema de cambio es un problema de creación en el país. Nosotros estamos aquí como atascados, desde hace muchas décadas.

Nuestro problema más grave [es] que crece la población constantemente y en cambio las fuentes de trabajo no crecen. Y en la misma medida en que la industria se tecnifica y necesita cada vez menos empleo de personal, la población nuestra crece y nos encontramos en un círculo vicioso que no tiene solución. Hombres que no tienen trabajo y que, por lo tanto, no pueden consumir. Y una industria que no se puede desarrollar si no tiene consumidores.

Nosotros no podemos competir con la industria europea en maquinarias, en productos manufacturados, ni con la industria de Estados Unidos. Nuestra industria tiene que ser una industria de consumo. Principalmente de consumo nacional. Y no es posible que se desarrolle una industria si no hay quien compre.

Y sin embargo cómo darle empleo a la gente si no es industrializando el país. Nuestro gran problema es el problema de los cientos de miles de hombres que están sin trabajo.

CLARK GALLOWAY: ¿Qué clase de industrias? ¿En qué clases piensa usted, por ejemplo?

FIDEL CASTRO: Principalmente, industrias alimenticias, industrias de tejidos, y también industrias de productos manufacturados para consumo del país. La industria nuestra no puede aspirar a competir, fundamentalmente, con la industria extranjera. Luego, tiene que desarrollarse a base del consumo nacional. Producir la mayor cantidad de artículos y de mercancías posible para consumir en el país.

CLARK GALLOWAY: Pues, ¿cuánto tiempo cree usted que va a necesitar para desarrollar ese programa?

FIDEL CASTRO: Antes que nada debo decirle que nuestro primer paso tiene que ser crear consumidores. Nosotros tenemos que crear consumidores. Ahora, lograr que una parte considerable del pueblo sea consumidor. Porque sobre esa base únicamente se puede desarrollar la industria del país. Y entonces…

CLARK GALLOWAY: Para eso tienen que tener plata…

FIDEL CASTRO: …bueno sí, pero no. Primero necesitamos consumidores. Porque nosotros aunque tengamos capital para establecer las industrias, si no tenemos quién compre no puede desarrollarse esa industria. Sería antieconómico. El primer problema no es siquiera tener di… tener capital. El primer problema es tener consumidores para la industria. Y, después, capital para establecer esas industrias. Pero lo esencial, lo básico, es tener una población consumidora de artículos industriales. Y entonces esa población consumidora la obtendremos nosotros a través de las reforma agraria.

CLARK GALLOWAY: ¿Cuánto costará tal programa?

FIDEL CASTRO: Bueno, depende, porque hay que distinguir entre el programa de obras públicas que debe realizarse en el país para satisfacer muchas necesidades que están pendientes y el programa de industrialización.

Cualquier pueblo de Cuba, de los 200 ó 300 pueblos de más o menos importancia, todos tienen una serie de necesidades fabulosas que nunca han sido satisfechas.

Usted va a los pueblos y le piden un centro escolar, le piden hospitales, le piden alcantarillado, le piden pavimentación de las calles, le piden acueductos, le piden escuelas, le piden sanidad, le piden camiones para limpiar las calles, le piden parques, le piden mercados –edificios donde vender la mercancía–, y obras de todas clases. Por ejemplo, le piden plantas para purificar el agua.

Es tan grande… yo estoy haciendo un censo de todas las necesidades. Yo le he pedido a todas las clases vivas del pueblo que me informen qué cosas necesitan. Y en qué orden les interesa que el gobierno se las vaya consiguiendo. Yo calculo que para satisfacer todas las necesidades de los pueblos de Cuba se necesita en obras públicas invertir por lo menos dos mil millones de pesos. Para satisfacer todas las necesidades en todos los pueblos. De caminos, de carreteras…

CLARK GALLOWAY: ¿De dónde vendrá la plata?

FIDEL CASTRO: Bueno, esa plata viene de aquí adentro. Del aumento de las contribuciones… de los ingresos del Estado en la misma medida que se eleve el estándar de vida del país. Yo pienso que dentro de tres años habremos duplicado los presupuestos.

CLARK GALLOWAY: Ah, ¿sí?

FIDEL CASTRO: Actualmente ya se ha producido en dos meses un superávit de 40 millones. No, de 25 millones de pesos en aumento de la recaudación. Entonces, el capital para la industria –parte capital nacional y parte capital de fuera, extranjero. Ahora, nosotros no queremos que ese capital venga a base de… Queremos que fundamentalmente nos presten capital para nosotros invertirlo a través de organismos de crédito del país. Porque si el capital viene de fuera y se invierte nosotros tenemos que pagar los intereses, que es el precio del capital: los intereses. Tenemos que amortizar el capital. Y después que lo hemos amortizado no nos quedamos con nada. ¿Usted se da cuenta?

CLARK GALLOWAY: Sí, como no.

FIDEL CASTRO: Nosotros queremos que nos presten el capital. Entonces nosotros devolvemos el capital más los intereses. Pero cuando hemos amortizado el capital prestado, nos queda el resto para nosotros aquí.. El capital lo amortizamos para nosotros. No para otros. ¿Usted entiende?

CLARK GALLOWAY: Ustedes no quieren…

FIDEL CASTRO: Porque nosotros pagamos el capital, lo devolvemos, y entonces nos queda el capital aquí. ¿Usted entiende? Porque de lo contrario tenemos que amortizarlo una vez, dos veces, diez veces. Toda la vida tenemos que estar amortizando. Es igual que si a usted le prestaran 100 pesos y toda la vida usted estuviera pagando los 100 pesos. ¿Usted entiende? [Risas] Con intereses.

CLARK GALLOWAY: ¿De dónde vendría ese capital?

FIDEL CASTRO: Puede venir de Estados Unidos, puede venir de Inglaterra. Puede venir de Francia. Puede venir de Alemania.

CLARK GALLOWAY: De bancos del gobierno de esos países o de bancos comerciales…

FIDEL CASTRO: Parece que hay abundancia de capitales en el mundo en este momento porque a nosotros han llegado muchos ofrecimientos de préstamos e inversiones. Muchos ofrecimientos de otras partes. Sobre todo porque ven que el gobierno es honrado. Al ver que el gobierno es honrado sienten una gran confianza. Además porque nosotros las deudas anteriores de la dictadura, las deudas pendientes, hemos decidido saldarlas. O sea, no las hemos rechazado.

CLARK GALLOWAY: ¿De cuáles países recibe dinero?

FIDEL CASTRO: Estados Uni… Yo le quiero explicar que muchos. El gobierno, la dictadura de Batista, contrajo deuda por 1200 millones de pesos. Nosotros pudimos haberla rechazado, porque el gobierno no era legítimo. Pero nosotros comprendimos que eso era trastornar mucho la economía del país. Entonces, que era preferible, que era preferible asumir la responsabilidad de esas deudas. Lo cual crearía una confianza grande a los que estuvieran dispuestos a invertir dinero. Porque si nosotros no hemos anulado esas deudas ya todo el mundo está seguro que puede invertir aquí, puede prestarnos, que nadie anulará las deudas por ninguna circunstancia aunque cambie el gobierno. ¿Usted entiende?

CLARK GALLOWAY: Sí.

FIDEL CASTRO: Aunque cambie no le importa. Si ahora ha habido un cambio como este y nosotros las deudas

CLARK GALLOWAY: Lo que ustedes quieren son empréstitos, no accionistas.

FIDEL CASTRO: Bueno, no quiere decir que sea una política exclusivista. Preferimos, preferimos recibir, preferimos recibir los préstamos y pagarlos. Pagar el capital y pagar los intereses. Porque de esa manera, cuando hemos amortizado el capital, nos queda a nosotros aquí… cuando hemos pagado la deuda nos quedan las fábricas aquí, las industrias. De la otra manera estaríamos pagando esas fábricas siempre. Y sería una constante salida de divisas. Usted sabe que el problema de las divisas es hoy fundamental para cualquier pueblo.

CLARK GALLOWAY: Sí.

FIDEL CASTRO: Que la política inteligente tiene que ser una política que tienda a recibir los capitales, pagar el precio de ese capital que es el interés. Devolver ese capital y entonces después nos quedan las fábricas, las industrias, nos quedan aquí en el país.

CLARK GALLOWAY: ¿Es cierto que alguna de las firmas norteamericanas en Cuba van a ser nacionalizadas?

FIDEL CASTRO: No se ha hablado de nacionalización.

CLARK GALLOWAY: ¿No?

FIDEL CASTRO: Sí. No se ha hablado… es el cañonazo de las nueve, no se preocupe. Sí, sí hay… no, no se ha hablado aquí de nacionalización. Nosotros no hemos planteado… nosotros podemos revisar alguna concesión de las que hizo la dictadura de Batista. Pueden ser concesiones onerosas y contrarias a la economía del país.

Pero nosotros no hemos hablado aquí de nacionalizaciones porque nuestros problemas económicos son de otra índole, fundamentales, que es cómo hacer la reforma agraria y desarrollar industrialmente el país. En cuanto a los servicios públicos, los servicios públicos están distribuidos, por ejemplo, son prestados por distintas compañías y nosotros… y a distintos precios, a distintas tarifas… es un problema que tenemos que estudiar y resolver. Pero no, aquí no se ha planteado como cuestión fundamental la nacionalización de ningún servicio.

CLARK GALLOWAY: ¿Me podría explicar en pocas palabras su programa de reforma agraria?

FIDEL CASTRO: El programa de reforma agraria consiste en lo siguiente: aquí en Cuba unas 200 mil familias –200 no, 200 a 300 mil familias que no tienen tierras, que son campesinos. Esos campesinos trabajan dos o tres veces al año en épocas de zafra. El resto del tiempo, están sin trabajo. No tienen tierra para sembrar ni para poder producir los artículos de consumo más necesarios. Muchos de esos campesinos vienen a la ciudad a buscar trabajo y aumentan el número de desempleados en la ciudad. Esa población campesina es la que nosotros tenemos que tratar de convertirla en población consumidora.

Más de la mitad del país es campesino. Y entonces nosotros tenemos que convertir esos campesinos en consumidores. Esos campesinos nunca se convertirán en consumidores mientras no tengan tierras para producir sus artículos. La reforma agraria hará que aumente la capacidad adquisitiva del campesino muchas veces. Y permitirá, será la base sobre la cual se pueda desarrollar, poner una industria en Cuba. Nosotros pensamos… están las tierras del Estado. Y las tierras particulares. Nosotros pensamos poner un límite máximo a las fincas dedicadas a los distintos tipos de producción.

CLARK GALLOWAY: ¿El azúcar, por ejemplo?

FIDEL CASTRO: Estamos estudiando el caso. Yo soy partidario de que se le ponga un límite también al azúcar. Ahora, a los centrales les conviene eso porque aquí la industria, los hacendados, hay una ley que les prohibió hace años que el central tuviera cañas propias. Entonces qué hicieron los hacendados para burlar esa ley es que ponían una compañía dueña del central y otra compañía dueña de la caña y era la misma cosa; burlaron la ley. El industrial debe ser industrial y no al mismo tiempo industrial y agricultor.

Los centrales azucareros no pueden competir hoy en el mundo a un precio con el azúcar porque el costo es muy caro. Es muy caro porque los centrales están anticuados. Las únicas… si el central trata de tecnificarse, de mejorarse, el resultado es que deja sin empleo mucho obrero o estos tienen que trabajar la mitad del tiempo al año. O sea, crearía un conflicto social muy grave.

La única forma que tendría la industria azucarera de tecnificarse es mediante la reforma agraria que extraería de la industria el exceso de personal que está demandando trabajo. ¿Usted comprende? Mediante la reforma agraria ellos se tienen que tecnificar.

¿Qué es lo que van a perder? No van a perder nada porque van a tener la caña para moler. Más caña para moler y mejores condiciones para mejorar su maquinaria.

Nosotros indemnizaremos la tierra. Si no tenemos dinero en efectivo –posiblemente no tengamos dinero en efectivo porque nosotros en dinero en efectivo no tenemos suficiente para indemnizar todo esto, pero lo podemos indemnizar en bonos. Bonos que tendrán la garantía de un gobierno honrado. Que podrán ser, que podrían ser vendidos en el mercado de valores. Que podrán ser negociados. Bonos con intereses, al menor plazo posible. Yo pienso hoy, salvo criterio de persona más experta que yo en la materia, en bonos de 10 a 15 años pero que se pueden negociar. Y entonces lo que nosotros le pedimos a los industriales, a los hacendados, a los grandes productores de caña y de ganado, que inviertan eso en industrias. Porque nosotros a la industria estamos dispuestos a darle todas las garantías, con la condición de que haya salarios altos.

CLARK GALLOWAY: Pues, ¿cuánto costará el programa de reforma agraria?

FIDEL CASTRO: No puedo calcularlo exactamente en este momento. Porque tendríamos primero que decidir sobre el límite máximo que va a haber. Las tierras que serían segregadas y el valor de tasación de esas tierras. Pero si nosotros pagamos mediante bonos podemos pagar un mejor precio de lo que pudiéramos pagar en efectivo. Y en cambio ese dinero que se recibe en bonos, bonos garantizados por el Estado cubano, ellos lo pueden negociar como se han negociado los bonos del BANDES y del Banco Nacional. Los bonos cubanos se venden en el mercado y se venden a buen precio. Al indemnizarlos nosotros mediante bonos nosotros lo único que les pedimos a ellos es que la indemnización la inviertan en industria aquí en el país. ¿Usted se da cuenta? Entonces lo que tienen que hacer los grandes… los latifundistas, es transformarse en industriales. ¿Usted se da cuenta? Y pueden establecer industrias que van a tener un mercado seguro. Y que van a significar la solución del problema para los mismos azucareros. Porque yo le voy a decir: ¿usted cree que se puede vivir en este estado de agitación, de conflicto permanente entre la empresa y los trabajadores? En un conflicto que va en aumento. Un conflicto que va en aumento.

CLARK GALLOWAY: Cuba depende en su mayor parte de la gente del azúcar. ¿Cree usted que esta dependencia debería reducirse?

FIDEL CASTRO: Bueno, a nosotros nos conviene venderle a Estados Unidos y a Estados Unidos le conviene comprarnos a nosotros. Porque también es verdad que en los momentos difíciles de Estados Unidos siempre ha tenido una fuente formidable de azúcar en Cuba. A Estados Unidos le interesa que esa fuente se conserve porque es un alimento básico para Estados Unidos, el azúcar. Que nosotros lo producimos más barato que allí en Estados Unidos.

Nosotros le pudiéramos brindar al pueblo americano un azúcar más barata. ¿Comprende? De la que paga hoy y que sin embargo el gobierno se la hace pagar cara allí por estar protegiendo ciertos intereses azucareros de ahí del país. Si Estados Unidos sembrara la tierra podría producir trigo, podría producir otras cosas. La tienen subsidiada. Nosotros le pudiéramos favorecer al pueblo americano vendiéndole toda el azúcar que él quiera mucho más barato de la que le vendemos hoy, en el futuro.

Háblele al pueblo de Estados Unidos y dígale que nosotros podemos, si es verdad que por un lado benefician a determinados agricultores con una industria artificial por completo nosotros pudiéramos beneficiar a todo el pueblo de Estados Unidos vendiéndole azúcar más barato de lo que la compran allí. A los americanos les gusta mucho el dulce. Nosotros le podemos dar todo el dulce que quieran. Y mantener entonces unas buenas relaciones.

Porque, mire, Estados Unidos es un país tan rico… tan poderoso industrialmente, agrícolamente, que lo que gana… lo que significa económicamente el comercio con Cuba en dinero –bueno, no importa, [Mujer: …lo están esperando] no importa—en dinero es una parte muy pequeña de su gran poderío económico, de su gran riqueza. A nosotros nos parece egoísta cuando, por ejemplo, al hablar de que queremos producir arroz, producir aceite para ahorrarnos algo de la importación se nos amenaza y dicen que no nos va a comprar azúcar. Porque en definitiva lo que va a dejar de ganar Estados Unidos por concepto de esas ventas es la millonésima parte de la riqueza de Estados Unidos. ¿Usted se da cuenta? No hay que granjearse la enemistad de nosotros. Por 100 ó por 200 millones de pesos que es lo que pudieran equivaler las compras que hacemos nosotros en alimentos.

Siempre tendremos que comprar automóviles, radios, televisores. Siempre tendremos. Pero Estados Unidos no vive del comercio de Cuba. En cambio Cuba depende de las divisas que ahorre para desarrollarse industrialmente. Nosotros no le decimos a Estados Unidos que nos regalen dólares. Nosotros no le estamos diciendo a Estados Unidos mándennos 1.000 millones de pesos. Con 1.000 millones de pesos resolvemos nuestros problemas. Nosotros planteamos las cosas en términos de justicia. Si nosotros no defendemos nuestra divisa, si nosotros no desarrollamos industrialmente el país, ¿a dónde vamos a parar? ¡En un caos! Si la Revolución no hace estas leyes, la Revolución pierde su autoridad. Pierde su moral, pierde su prestigio. Y si esta revolución se precipita lo que vamos a tener aquí es un infierno en Cuba. Un verdadero infierno. Porque cuando haya un millón, un millón y medio de gente sin trabajo, y ya no crean en nadie aquí, entonces va a ser el caos –créame caballero.

Nosotros podemos ir haciendo una revolución ordenada, estudiada, planeada. Yo muchas veces he tenido que pararme y decirle a los campesinos no, no ocupen la tierra así, porque a la tierra hay que repartirla ordenadamente. Nosotros no podemos producir la empresa agrícola grande con la empresa agrícola pequeñita, dividida, porque eso no rinde económicamente. No, no rendiría a bajo costo. Nosotros tenemos que sustituir la empresa grande con otra empresa grande. O sea, reuniendo a todos los campesinos para que tengan una gran empresa como quien tiene una sociedad por acciones. Y entonces utilicen equipos, costosos, y utilicen la mejor técnica del mundo. Actualmente, ¿usted vio Bohemia? Bohemia hoy ha hecho un llamamiento de un fondo para que yo lo maneje. ¿Usted sabe a lo que me voy a dedicar? A tractores. Todo sobre tractores y equipos de regadíos, de pozos, de todo. Y entonces vamos a producir en Cuba en las mejores condiciones técnicas del mundo.

Los equipos más modernos que hay en el mundo los vamos a comprar para la agricultura. Tan buenos como los que puede haber en los Estados Unidos. Y la tierra nuestra tiene una ventaja sobre la tierra en Estados Unidos y es que produce dos y tres cosechas al año porque no hay frío. Nosotros con abono, con regadío, podemos producir más barato que Estados Unidos. Porque ahora Estados Unidos produce el maíz más barato que nosotros. La mitad del precio. El arroz más barato que nosotros. ¿Y por qué? A pesar de que ellos no pueden hacer más que una cosecha de maíz al año. ¿Por qué? Porque producen con una técnica muy moderna… y a muy bajo costo. Pues nosotros vamos a hacer dos cosechas con la misma técnica que Estados Unidos.

Vamos a producir muy barato. ¿Usted se da cuenta? Todo ese dinero lo voy a invertir en tractores. En cuestión de tractores, de equipos, de regadío y de todo. Entonces en el campo vamos a producir a través de grandes cooperativas de campesinos. Cooperativas que se van a distribuir las ganancias. Ya tengo algunas hechas en tierras que eran de cómplices de Batista, socios de Batista. He hecho una cooperativa y van muy bien. Allí mismo tienen una cooperativa de producción agrícola y su cooperativa de consumo. Tienen una tienda propia, la primera que hice. Y tuvo que poner el 20% más caro porque sino arruinaba a las tiendecitas de por allí.

CLARK GALLOWAY: Hablando del azúcar, si las ventas de azúcar de Estados Unidos se redujeran afectaría mucho a Cuba, ¿no?

FIDEL CASTRO: Sí, yo creo que sí afectaría. Desde luego. Pero yo no veo por qué se vayan a bajar las ventas de azúcar. Sería injusto por cuanto Cuba cada vez que Estados Unidos ha tenido una situación difícil ha tenido una fuente de abastecimiento y de materia prima segura en Cuba y a los soldados americanos lo que más les gusta, es el azúcar. Y a todo soldado lo que más le gusta es el azúcar. A Estados Unidos no le conviene que se arruine la industria azucarera cubana. No le conviene.

CLARK GALLOWAY: ¿Qué cree usted sobre el intercambio comercial entre Cuba y los países comunistas?

FIDEL CASTRO: Bueno, yo creo que si nos compran nosotros debemos venderle. ¿Porque qué vamos a hacer si no sobran los artículos y nos compran? Eso es lo que hace Estados Unidos. Y lo que hace Inglaterra y lo que hacen todos los países.

CLARK GALLOWAY: Pues, ¿ve usted en esto algún peligro para Cuba?

FIDEL CASTRO: ¿En qué sentido?

CLARK GALLOWAY: …de infiltración o…

FIDEL CASTRO: …no puede haber peligro porque si nosotros hacemos lo que los cubanos quieren, si nosotros hacemos justicia social, y la hacemos y le resolvemos el problema material a todos los cubanos dentro de un clima de libertad y de respeto a los derechos individuales –de libertad de prensa, de pensamiento, de democracia, de libertad de elegir su propio gobernante.

La revolución que nosotros estamos haciendo le ofrece al pueblo de Cuba lo que ningún régimen social en el mundo le ofrece actualmente. ¿Comprende?

Yo no tengo ningún temor a ninguna ideología del 26 de julio que es la ideología de un sistema social dentro del más amplio concepto de la democracia, de la libertad y de los derechos humanos. Es la promesa más hermosa que se le puede hacer al hombre.

CLARK GALLOWAY: Claro.

FIDEL CASTRO: ¿Por qué tenemos nosotros que temer? Nosotros no tenemos que temer.

CLARK GALLOWAY: ¿Sabe usted si los países comunistas podrían ofrecerle a Cuba las mercaderías que Cuba necesita importar?

FIDEL CASTRO: Bueno, yo no he estudiado eso. No he estudiado esa posibilidad. Realmente no la he estudiado porque yo he creído que nosotros íbamos a seguir vendiéndole el azúcar a Estados Unidos, fundamentalmente. Y le seguiremos comprando mucho a Estados Unidos. Yo no me he planteado el otro problema. Si se me presenta [sonriendo] el otro problema tendré que ponerme a estudiarlo, ¿no?

CLARK GALLOWAY: Como primer ministro usted tiene un gran trabajo. ¿Cómo usted va a ordenar los asuntos del gobierno? ¿Sería posible delegar algunas de sus responsabilidades?

FIDEL CASTRO: Bueno, porque usted ha visto que nosotros tenemos varios ministros. Son gente muy capacitada. El ministro del Trabajo. El ministro de Economía. El ministro de Obras Públicas. Son una serie de compañeros que son muy trabajadores. Y lo que yo hago, cada día más, le llevo… si hay un ofrecimiento de proyecto de empréstito de industria yo se lo mando al ministro de Economía, se lo mando al ministro de Agricultura. Yo cada día me quito más trabajo y se lo pongo a ellos, y los consulto a ellos siempre. Yo me reúno dos veces a la semana con ellos. Y allí discutimos largamente. Si yo quisiera tener menos trabajo. Yo quisiera tener menos trabajo. [Risas] Yo tengo mucho trabajo. Porque la función mía es administrativa, pero también es política. Tengo que hablar con el pueblo, orientarlo, animarlo, decirle que tengan calma, que tengan paciencia. Yo soy el que controlo los problemas con el pueblo.

CLARK GALLOWAY: ¿Cuál es su parecer acerca de la base naval de los Estados Unidos en Guantánamo?

FIDEL CASTRO: Ese es un problema que no se ha discutido aquí. No se ha tocado. Ha habido algunos pequeños conflictos originados en el hecho de que los marinos los dejaban siempre desembarcar, ir a Guantánamo por ejemplo, los dejaban ir a Guantánamo todas las semanas de fiesta. Claro que económicamente convenía porque compraban. Pero iban miles de marinos e iban a ciertos sitios de diversión. No conocían bien y muchas veces llegaban a las casas de las personas decentes y tocaban a cualquier casa. Es un problema. Hay cierto conflicto entre ellos cuando van de vacaciones, cuando van de fin de semana, se creaban conflictos entre ellos y entre las familias decentes. Porque se equivocaban muchos marinos, tomaban, se equivocaban y entraban a la casa. Eso en otro momento, en la época de Batista no producía efecto ninguno porque todo el mundo sufría esas cosas tranquilamente. Pero ahora, usted comprende, cualquier cosa de esas produce un gran efecto, porque la gente ve el propósito rectificador de la Revolución y todo lo que ha estado mal, todo lo que les disgustaba ahora lo plantean. ¿Usted se da cuenta? Lo explican en un momento en que eso puede crear resentimiento. Sobre todo a mi me preocupa mucho que no vaya a ocurrir ni el menor incidente. ¿Usted se da cuenta? Por eso yo con respecto a las visitas soy partidario de que se espere lo más posible, ¿verdad?, en las zonas esas donde ha habido problemas como en Guantánamo, en Santiago, pues quisiera que con todos los ánimos estuviéra todo bien organizado, bien ordenado, que se puedan producir las visitas sin rozamientos. Porque en el pueblo no hay animosidad; no hay animosidad contra ellos, ¿sabe? Pero este es un momento en que cualquier pequeño incidente puede tener importancia. ¿Usted se da cuenta?

CLARK GALLOWAY: Pues parece que no hay problemas de sí o no los Estados Unidos siga ocupando la base en los términos actuales.

FIDEL CASTRO: Esa demanda no se ha planteado. Ese problema no se ha planteado. Nosotros tenemos otros problemas. Nosotros tenemos otros problemas que nos interesan más. Nuestros problemas de orden económico y social. Son los problemas que a nosotros nos interesan. Si nosotros mantenemos relaciones podemos mantener relaciones amistosas con Estados Unidos, comerciales y políticas. Diplomáticas. Pues, yo no veo peligro de que se produzcan conflictos.

CLARK GALLOWAY: ¿Ve usted en una forma favorable el que Cuba sea una base de operaciones militares contra la República Dominicana o tal vez otros países?

FIDEL CASTRO: Bueno, yo le voy a decir sobre lo que pienso. Nosotros necesitamos hacer un trabajo aquí. [Risa] Pensamos hacer un trabajo. Lo que a mí me preocupa fundamentalmente, le voy a contestar con toda franqueza, en este momento son los problemas de Cuba. Lo que me interesa fundamentalmente son los problemas de Cuba. El trabajo que tenemos que realizar adelante. Ahora bien, no quiere decir eso que sea uno tan egoísta que se pueda empezar a mirar con indiferencia el dolor de otros pueblos de América latina.

Trujillo es un peligro para Cuba. Trujillo es un peligro para la América latina.

Los agentes de Trujillo asesinan a sus enemigos fuera del estado. Asesinan a sus enemigos como Galide en Estados Unidos. Asesinan a Requena en Estados Unidos. Asesinan a sus enemigos en Cuba. Asesinan a sus enemigos en México. Asesinan a sus enemigos en cualquier parte. Incluso, cuando yo hice el viaja a Venezuela, y al amanecer pregunté porque estábamos en Venezuela, qué costas eran aquellas y me dijeron las de Colombia. Y yo pregunté los pilotos por qué habíamos salido a Colombia. Y me dijeron: “Porque las rutas hacia Venezuela pasan muy cerca de Santo Domingo”. Y ellos no quisieron pasar cerca de Santo Domingo por peligro de que un avión de Trujillo hiciera cualquier fechoría. Trujillo es una especie de dictador del Caribe y dictador de América latina que no respeta las leyes de otros países. Trujillo no respeta la ley de ningún país.

Mire, nosotros si quisiéramos podríamos buscar a Batista donde quisiéramos. Aquí hay hombres voluntarios de sobra para ir a matar a Batista en Estados Unidos, en México, donde sea. Sin embargo nosotros jamás aceptaremos ni jamás promoveremos ni respaldaremos ninguna acción fuera del territorio nacional. Porque nosotros respetamos las leyes de otros países. Trujillo no las respeta. Trujillo tiene establecida una dictadura “continental”. ¿Usted se da cuenta? Y en cierto sentido es lógico que un gobierno democrático, es lógico que los cubanos democráticos veamos con simpatía cualquier movimiento contra Trujillo para nosotros intervenir directamente en problemas de Santo Domingo, nosotros no intervendremos directamente en problemas de Santo Domingo. ¿Usted se da cuenta?

Ahora, aquí en Cuba pueden venir a vivir los exilados de cualquier país. Pueden venir a vivir. Y, naturalmente pues, lo mismo en Cuba que en Venezuela yo se que los dominicanos sobre todo cuentan con mucha simpatía. Yo no los voy a…

[Corte]

Todavía no se ha decidido la fecha exacta para el propósito del gobierno, hacerlas lo antes posible. Yo les voy a decir lo siguiente: el propósito del gobierno de hacerla se habló de dos años. El criterio del gobierno es hacer la elección en dos años. Por lo general en los países… en estos países cuando ocurre una revolución, golpes de estado no revoluciones, entonces el interés de los gobernantes como no tienen apoyo del pueblo es posponer las elecciones todo lo más posible hasta tratar de ganar.

El caso de nosotros es al revés. Nosotros tenemos el noventa y tanto por ciento del pueblo. Nosotros no le podemos tener miedo a ningunas elecciones. No podemos tener miedo a perder unas elecciones porque estamos seguros de que la ganamos. Pero, lo que a mí sí me preocupa un poco es en este momento en que estamos reorganizando el Estado, exigiendo mucha rectitud, mucha disciplina, vayamos a distraer mucha energía en política. ¿Usted comprende? Que vayamos ahora a poner a la gente a aspirar. Porque funcionarios buenos yo no quiero que aspiren a senador. Que siga de funcionario. me preocupa un poco coger todos los elementos que está trabajando en la administración pública y que van progresando mucho, ponerlo a hacer política. Que tenga un poquito de miedo a eso. Es la única parte que me preocupa un poco de la política. ¿Usted entiende? Que vayamos a desgastar la energía en esas cosas.

CLARK GALLOWAY: Pues, el 26 de julio se organizará como partido político.

FIDEL CASTRO: Por supuesto, como partido político.

CLARK GALLOWAY: ¿En las próximas elecciones se les permitirá tomar parte a todos los partidos políticos incluyendo al Partido Popular Socialista?

FIDEL CASTRO: Si reúnen los requisitos que establezca la legislación electoral

CLARK GALLOWAY: Si le pidieran que fuera usted uno de los candidatos a la presidencia, ¿aceptaría?

FIDEL CASTRO: Yo en eso haría lo que decidiera la dirección del Movimiento 26 de Julio pero yo creo que el Movimiento 26 de Julio tiene fuerza suficiente para obtener el triunfo con su propia fuerza. El Movimiento 26 de Julio tiene… el Movimiento 26 de Julio puede obtener el triunfo con su sola fuerza. El Movimiento 26 de Julio no necesita de pactos políticos para triunfar en unas elecciones revolucionarias; en unas elecciones.

CLARK GALLOWAY: Última pregunta: como usted debe haber oído…

FIDEL CASTRO: …yo le digo… sí, porque yo no quiero hacer ese tipo de declaraciones que parezcan que estoy en actitud de dividir. En este momento no se han planteado en el país problemas de tipo político. Yo quiero dedicar todo mi empeño a trabajar en una obra revolucionaria consciente de que esa obra revolucionaria consolidará el movimiento 26 de julio, el movimiento democrático, el movimiento revolucionario, un movimiento de fuerza en el pueblo, muy grande.

CLARK GALLOWAY: …como usted debe haber oído ha habido rumores de que el mayor Raúl Castro y el mayor Ernesto Guevara son comunistas o simpatizantes del comunismo. Esos son los rumores. Quisiera que usted haga algún comentario sobre eso.

FIDEL CASTRO: Bueno, yo le voy a decir mi opinión sobre eso. Y es que aquí en Cuba siempre había una política muy tradicional, una política muy conservadora, y no existía ninguna esperanza revolucionaria. Mucha gente joven pues antes se inclinaba hacia la izquierda más que simpatizar con los partidos políticos tradicionales que existían.

En el momento en que se constituyó en Cuba un movimiento como el 26 de Julio que es verdaderamente revolucionario, que tiende a estructurar la economía del país en bases justas, que el movimiento revolucionario es un movimiento democrático de amplio contenido humano ha absorbido en sus filas a mucha gente que antes no se tenía alternativa de tipo político y se inclinaban hacia partidos de a-radicales.

El Movimiento 26 de Julio es un movimiento de ideas radicales. Pero no es un movimiento comunista. Y difiere fundamentalmente del comunismo en una serie de cuestiones. En una serie de cuestiones esenciales. ¿Comprende? Y el Movimiento 26 de Julio, los hombres, tanto Raúl como Guevara, como todos son hombres que están muy de acuerdo con el pensamiento político mío. No es un pensamiento comunista.

CLARK GALLOWAY: ¿No son comunistas?

FIDEL CASTRO: No es un pensamiento comunista el Movimiento del 26 de Julio. Y la tendencia que yo le pudiera decir que si vamos a ver posiblemente en Estados Unidos ustedes tengan allí muchas ideas de izquierda también figurando en los partidos democráticos. Posiblemente a lo mejor a usted le dicen comunista porque ha hecho un artículo a favor de la Revolución cubana y le quieren hacer una investigación en el Senado en Estados Unidos.

JG. No, señor.

David Gerlach

Patrick Smith

Amy Drozdowska

Sebastian Betti

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Larry interviewed Farrah Fawcett in Hollywood in 1994. He recorded the conversation on microcassette tape.

Read More

Lawrence Grobel is a freelance writer who has written 22 books and for numerous national magazines and newspapers.

So I turned around. I said, “Listen, I’m having a problem with a man right now, okay? I don’t like men very much so shut the [bleep] up. Get away from me ‘cause I am in a pissed off mood.” And he just goes, “Okay, okay.”

She actually came in a black Jaguar driving to a restaurant I was meeting her at in the Hollywood Hills. And she was 47 years old. She was still very attractive. She still had that dynamic smile. And the story that really she told me was a turning point for her was this story in the taxi, because she said that it proved to her that she wasn’t to be taken lightly. And that she was not a Charlie’s Angels airhead, basically. Farrah was doing “Extremities” the play, off-Broadway in Manhattan and…

It was raining and I remember I was on 5th Avenue and 51st. And I had on these—I remember it exactly—these pants, these Maud Frizon shoes with little heels but they were like stiletto and kind of this big shirt. But it was raining and I was wet. And all I was thinking is: I am going to have to do this performance with wet hair. What am I going to do? I am going to be late. There’s no taxi, you know. When it rains in New York, you know, there is no— I’d never been late. I’ve never missed a performance. Oh my god. So I was panicking.

I had my assistant with me who was a gay guy. I didn’t know him very well. And so one of these what I thought I guess was a gypsy cab, kind of a van, pulled up. And he said, “Are you trying to get a taxi?” And I said, ”Yes.” He said, “Okay, get in. I’ll take you.” And he said, “Where do you want to go?” And I told him.

Now we passed, actually, the street I wanted to go to and I went, “No, wait, wait. Oh no, you passed—” because now I’m in a panic. And so he just slams on the brakes and reaches over and pulls a screwdriver out of the, you know, glove compartment. And he turns around to us and he holds it like this and he goes, “Give me your [bleep]ing money.”

So I said: “Oh man, you know. Listen, let me tell you something: I’ll give you all my money. Just please take me where I want to go which we passed it, so if you just do that…” He said, “Just shut the [bleep] up. Give me your money.” He was like really abusive.

So I just sat there and I looked at him. And all of the sudden he said, “You, faggot, out,” which was my assistant. And he said, “And you, [bleep], give me your fucking money.” Now I dislike that word so much, and I really was offended that this guy said this to me. So I had my assistant like pulling on my right hand which I’m right-handed so my strongest hand in case I might need to defend myself. And the guy has got this screwdriver really close to my face, and I’m going, “Let go of my arm.” And so he gets out., and the guy says, “Close the door,” so he closes the door. And we are just staring at each other.

In my mind I’m going: Okay, he’s got a screwdriver. That will go in my leg and that will hurt. That will hurt. It won’t kill me. He’s not going to get my eye. I’ll go back. And I’ve got on these stiletto heels. Aim for his face. Okay, if he wants to duke it out, my legs are my strongest. You know, okay.

So we just sat there looking at each other. And he’s like enraged. He’s like some crazy guy. He’s white but he’s just like— His face is all frothing and everything. And so I said, “Come on, chicken [bleep]. You going to use it or what? What? Come on!” And so he just went, “You shut the [bleep] up. Shut the [bleep] up. Give me your money.” I said, “[Bleep] you. No. If you took me where I wanted to go I would. Now [bleep] you. So do something or let me out, because I have to go.” He said, “You get out. Get out.” He starts screaming at me: Get out, get out.

Anyway, I got to the theater like two minutes before I went on. And when we got out my assistant said, “I can’t believe he called me a faggot.” And I said, “He called me a [bleep]. Shut up and don’t ever grab my arm again.”

By Lawrence Grobel

On a dark night off Coldwater Canyon

A blonde driver was looking for direction

I stopped my car, got out

And asked if I could help

“I’m lost,” she said

I recognized her voice

“Farrah? Is that you?”

We hadn’t seen each other in years

But she remembered our

Paddle tennis games

When she got straightened out

She gave me her number

And a friendly kiss

Farrah Fawcett had

Very soft lips

—-from Madonna Paints a Mustache…and other celebrity encounters

David Gerlach

Patrick Smith

Amy Drozdowska

YACHT “The Afterlife”

Jahzzar “Haunted” & “Memories”

Henry Mancini “Charlie’s Angels Theme”

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Michael and James brought their reel-to-reel tape recorder up to Ravinia outdoor music venue in suburban Chicago to record their interview with Louis Armstrong on June 24, 1964.

The interview originally aired on WNTH-FM in Winnetka, Illinois — James and Michael’s high school radio station.

Michael Aisner is a documentarian who has been dabbling in radio since high school.

James R. Stein is a screenwriter and won Emmys for his writing on The Carol Burnett Show.

Michael Aisner: Here’s a question you’ve probably heard about six million times: where did you first pick up the name “Satchmo”?

Louis Armstrong: You know, musicians in my day had nicknames. My name was “Satchel Mouth,” like a doctor’s satchel. When I went to England this fellow was strictly English, and he was editor of the newspaper there. He shook my hand after I got off the train and said, “Hello, Satchmo.” So right away my trombone player said, “Mmm, the man thinks you have mo’ mouth than Satchel Mouth.” So I was stuck with it, and it turned out all right.

James Stein: I’m James R. Stein.

Michael Aisner: I’m Michael Aisner.

James Stein: I was 14 and a half.

Michael Aisner: And I was 15 years old, and James and I went off to interview Louis Armstrong for our high school radio station, WNTH. New Trier High School in Winnetka, Illinois. To set the stage, it was June 24, 1964. We’re at Ravinia. It’s an outdoor concert. The place is sold out. We get to go backstage, so we’re watching his concert.

James Stein: I remember it was a hot summer night, but for some reason he was speaking to us in his underwear.

Michael Aisner: He was definitely in his underwear. I remember the tank top. And I also remember—

James Stein: I wasn’t sure if it was Jockey or boxer.

Michael Aisner: It was boxers.

James Stein: Boxers?

Michael Aisner: Boxers. Louis Armstrong wore boxers.

Michael Aisner: He was literally fending off the Chicago Sun Times, and the Daily News, WGN. I remember that. And he would just say out the doors, “Excuse me, but I’m in an interview.” And he gave us an outrageous amount of time. Twenty minutes, sat there with a couple of kids.

Michael Aisner: Mr. Armstrong: I’ll begin the questioning by asking you just when, where and how did you begin your show business career?

Louis Armstrong: As a youngster in the little orphanage home in New Orleans, I was the bugler of the institution. When I got to be around 13 or 14 years old, they took me off the bugle and put me in the little brass band. Finally they made me the leader of the little band on the corner at— So we got so good we could play “When the Saints Go Marching In” for the boys to March to church every Sunday. (Laughs)

James Stein: Who would you say was essentially responsible for launching your professional career?

Louis Armstrong: Well, I’d say myself because I was determined. I had a chance to play with the best musicians that were coming through because I was pretty good myself or else they wouldn’t have tolerated with me, you know. You’ve got to be good or bad as the devil. (Laughs)

Louis Armstrong: You can’t take it for granted. Even if we have two, three days off I still have to blow that horn a few hours to keep up the chops. I mean I’ve been playing 50 years, and that’s what I’ve been doing in order to keep in that groove there.

James Stein: You still got to practice?

Louis Armstrong: I’ve got to warm up every day at least an hour, you know.

Louis Armstrong: You either have it or you don’t. You play your horn just like you sing a song or a hymn. If it’s in your heart, you express yourself in the tune. I’ve been playing music so long. What else is there to do? What can you prove at 64? I mean as far as trying to create what? You know? The best I can do is stay happy.

Michael Aisner: We hope you stay happy for a very, very long time. Thank you very much, Mr. Armstrong.

Louis Armstrong: Okay.

Michael Aisner: Pleasure interviewing you.

James Stein: I want to wring my neck back then because, you know, I wasn’t involved in a conversation with the man. I was asking him questions, and sometimes I wasn’t even listening to his answers. I wish that I could have done some following up like I might do now and actually engage him in a conversation. But, because we were so nervous, I think you kind of stick to the script.

Michael Aisner: These little pre-pubescent sounding kids and this guy with this gravelly, incredible voice, but he gave us time and respected us.

David Gerlach

Patrick Smith

Amy Drozdowska

Louis Armstrong

“Mack the Knife”

“When the Saints Go Marching In”

“Dream a Little Dream”

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Andrew and Ramin interviewed Sendak at his home in Connecticut in September 2009. Their original story ran in Newsweek. They made a digital recording of this previously unheard interview.

Andrew Romano is now West Coast Correspondent for Yahoo News. Ramin Seetodeh is Variety’s New York Bureau Chief.

I love watching animal movies on television. And they always say don’t run away and don’t turn your back. And don’t lie down flat. And I love—it’s from my childhood—how do you prevent dying? How do you prevent being eaten or mauled by a monster? I still worry about it. (Laughter)

I think there is something barbaric in children, and it’s missing in lots of books for them because we don’t like to think of it. We want them to be happy. Childhood is a very tough time. It was for me, and it was for my brother and my sister. They were both considerably older than I was and they protected me from my parents. They were the good parents. And my real parents were not so good, okay? They didn’t mean any harm. They were confused; they didn’t speak English. Living in a foreign country, and take it out on your kids. That’s all.

But there are a lot of crazy people who have children, and I’ve always been interested in how children maneuver and decide how to live. It’s hard. I’ve always had a deep respect for children and how they solve complex problems by themselves.

And how do they?

I think through shrewdness, fantasy and just plain strength; they want to survive. They want to survive. The kids in Hansel and Gretel: Gretel, she saves her brother’s life. And a little girl saving a little boy’s life—when did children have to confront such terrible ordeals? Well they do. They do.

Just a broad question: what should children’s stories contain?

Well, how would I know? All I do know is that my parents were immigrants and they didn’t know that they should clean the stories up for us. So we heard horrible, horrible stories. And we loved them. We absolutely loved them. But the three of us—my sister, my brother and myself—grew up being very depressed people.

So the great thing was my brother, who wrote stories and I’d illustrate his stories. There was one story we called “We Are Inseparable.” And they’re going to get married. The brother and sister are going to get married and nobody knows that there’s anything wrong with that. Nobody. Nobody. Hey, you love somebody. So it’s your sister. Big deal. Okay?

Now, obviously Freud stuck into my brother’s head at the last minute to prevent this wedding from taking place. The boy’s in an accident—and I can’t remember what—and he’s bandaged and looks like a mummy. And she comes tearing to the hospital. “Let me in! Let me in!” And the parents are holding her back, holding her back and then she breaks down the door and she jumps on top of him and they both scream in unison, “We are inseparable!” And they leap out the window of the Brooklyn Jewish Hospital—like the 40th floor—and that’s how it ends. It was a really happy ending. (Laughter)

Let’s tell the truth. Let’s talk about the kid who doesn’t make it sensationally well. Who struggles and fights, but really doesn’t know what he’s fighting against or for. And I don’t think that changes. We’re all adults in this room sitting talking about that. Has that ended? No. It doesn’t end. I still think the same way I thought as a child. I still worry. I’m still frightened. Everything is the same. Nothing changes.

David Gerlach

Patrick Smith

Amy Drozdowska

Oskar Schuster “Sneeuwland”

Johnny Ripper “Opening Credits”

Ergo Phizmiz & Margita Zalite “Rolands Vegners”

James Nicoloro Productions

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Rocci recorded the interview in James Brown’s dressing room before a concert in Washington D. C. in 1984. Rocci held onto that cassette tape since that night. Portions of this interview originally aired on ABC News Radio.

Rocci Fisch is now a deputy editor at the WashingtonPost.com

James, how do you feel about the tribute tonight?

Sir, I’m going to call you by your last name as long as you call me by mine.

Mr. Brown.

Yes, sir. One thing I fought for was respect…

Okay.

And I demand that all the time.

I interviewed James Brown in Washington DC. It was 1984. I was working at ABC News there as an entertainment reporter for ABC Radio Network. James Brown was in town for like a tribute thing down at the old convention center. I was among a lot of other young reporters there waiting in the hallway to be introduced to James Brown. And the door opened up to his dressing room… And there he was with his wife in there who was styling his hair. And hair was a very important thing to James Brown.

The worst thing that can happen to you is to stay number one for too long.

And he gave us a little Q&A, like a mini press conference.

I want to tell you something about these shades. Excuse me for cutting you off. Because I don’t want you to sit up there thinking I’m trying to be be hip and that’s why I put my shades on. This is a different kind of pair of shades. They make an even tone. Anyone put them on and you’ll see the difference. There not no hip shades.

It relaxes your eyes?

Yes. It’s a different kind of shades.

He sort of talks in phrases, and he’s very philosophical about what he says. He sort of, you know, blurts it out.

Black is not a color; it’s an attitude. It’s the attitude of independence, respect and dignity.

It’s not, you know, hard to understand it because he is expressive. The man is a self-educated man.

How the blind going to lead the blind? I really feel sorry for the Afro-American. He really doesn’t know what’s happening, because they were never trained. They don’t know and see this is where White America has the advantage over most people in America. They know how the country’s run, because they made the rules. See what I’m saying? My father got out of the Navy and instead of him going to school, he went and signed up for school and paid the teacher part of his check to mark him present when he was not present. He paid to be ignorant. Why do you think I’ve got everything going? Why I can talk to the president? Because I know how the country is run. I speak for the world. They want me to bring all the world leaders together. Leader of Russia. Leader of Africa. See, because you’ve got to know what’s going on.

What do you think of [President Ronald] Reagan?

I think he’s the most intelligent… I think he’s the most well-coordinated president we’ve ever had in history,

You think he’s going to win again?

I’m not here to endorse. I just know he’s the most well-organized president we’ve ever had in history. His acting ability taught him the whole structure of the country.

Communication, you mean?

Huh?

Communication?

He knows what everybody wants. You see, every American, every American man is still a cowboy. See you’ve got to remember that. Because of the frontiersman.

He knows how to act. He knows everything about that. He knows about emotions of people. He knew he was going to be president. See, that’s what’s called a man of conviction. You understand me? I’m not Democrat or Republican; I’m for the man. I’m a humanitarian.

Mr. Brown, you’ve been crowned the title of the Godfather of Soul. Okay, what more do you have to look for now in life?

Just keep living. I’m living every day.

Well, you’ve reached the peak?

What peak? I haven’t reached no peak. Wherever God sends me, that’s where I want to go. Godfather just means that I held on to the word “soul” until everybody got it recognized. Ten years ago, ya’ll liked disco. And y’all liked punk rock. You all keep changing every day. Don’t keep changing so much.

So what is the present James Brown style? Is it the same?

Whatever I want to do. Whatever I want to do. Whatever I want to do. I am not going to tell people what I do no more. I’m going to do my own thing. Because they got mad when I told them. I’m going to do what God say and work in a church and preach about religion. I didn’t get no thanks for it. Only a few people understanding 10-20 years later what I’m doing.

David Gerlach

Patrick Smith

Amy Drozdowska

James Brown

“The Boss”

“White Lightning, I Mean Moonshine”

“Living in America”

“Sportin’ Life”

Heinrich Klaffs

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The interview originally aired on the syndicated “Sports Innerview with Ann Liguori” in 1992. Hear Ann’s entire collection of sports interviews @ annliguori.com.

Ann Liguori is a longtime sports talk show host, golf/tennis correspondent, and philanthropist annliguori.com.

My thing I liked was to challenge guys that were smaller, guys that were supposed to be quicker. Because I think self-consciously I was trying to prove to people it wasn’t just my height that was getting me across in these various sports. It was some other intrinsic things that I had that made me a good athlete.

You had a nice childhood. A very solid childhood, and that’s very important.

Yeah, you know the only thing that was not so nice was that I was this height at 14 years of age.

Seven foot?

Yeah, and can you imagine going through America at that time, a man of color, a little boy, 14 years old, that height? You know, I was looked upon as a freak. Today, when you see someone close to my size or whatever, people think: “sports,” “basketball,” “zoom dollar signs.”  And they don’t think “circus freak” or what have you. The toughest thing for me was growing up and being stared at and being looked at and being talked about in that particular way. Other than that it was a good childhood.

Did it give you a complex? I mean, did it make you feel insecure: Wow, I’m so tall?

You know, well, not insecure, but, you know, I kind of wanted to hide a little bit. I did not want to bring that notice to me. If I was on like the bus or we had the El, you understand, I would always sit down. I was taught to stand up and give my seat to ladies or women, and I never did. I was always just going to sit there. Because if I stood up, my head would be like almost touching the ceiling and everybody would look, so I was really quite conscious about that.

I was played the villain so much because I was bigger and stronger than most, and they cast me as the villain everywhere I went.  And villains are kind of hard to really know on a personal level when you see them as mean, unsensitive-type people.  And also when you have this great size, sensitivity once again is not given to you. They talk about all these things that you can do and whatever, but never do they say are you gentle, really sensitive about things.  And we are.  You know, a big dog tends to be much more at ease with kids and gentle with them than a little one that’s always yelping, yelping, yelping, you know? So I don’t know where they get that because you’re big you have to have this gruffness about you.

You do mention the sensitivity issue in the book about sex and how rewarding it felt for you that the woman would find you very sensual and sensitive, that it was a shock to some people that you could be that way.

Well, let’s talk about that a second. You know, I say that you want to be treated just like everybody else in that respect, but on the other hand: viva la difference.

I think my attraction, if there was attraction that women had for me, was the fact that I was different. Of course when you’re famous, you have a little more money than some people and you’re involved in something like professional sports: that’s an attraction. But I think a lot of ladies found me so attractive because I was different. And I acted on that in a way.

I think that Wilt Chamberlain, as age has come upon him, is even much more secure. Even though I can do less, I feel much more secure about it.

David Gerlach

Patrick Smith

Amy Drozdowska

Antony Raijekov “By The Coast”

Jason Bitner original music

The Years “Mooami”

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Interview by Rocci Fisch

Fisch interviewed the Beastie Boys — Mike “Mike D” Diamond, Adam “Ad-Rock” Horovitz, and Adam “MCA” Yauch — on May 31, 1985 in a hotel room Washington, D.C. It was recorded on cassette tape and portions originally aired on ABC News Radio.

Rocci Fisch is now a deputy editor at the WashingtonPost.com.

Ad-Rock: “I wouldn’t be surprised if when we come back from this tour and we start recording our album we have like a song that’s just like a classic hit like The Beatles’ ‘Baby You Can Drive my Car.'”

Mike D: We probably will.

Ad-Rock: Probably. I don’t have a car, but it will probably be something like that.

MCA: But if you had one, then somebody could drive it. She could drive it.

Mike D: Your baby could drive it. I’m sure it wouldn’t be any problem. I could arrange it.

MCA: No problem.

Mike D: No problem, Jamaica.

MCA: We got in last night. We took the bus right after the show.

Rocci Fisch: Where were you last night?

MCA: We nearly got arrested.

Mike D: Yeah. Virginia.

MCA: Listen to this: we’re on the stage playing and we happen to say—can I curse on this or is this like uh—

Rocci Fisch: I’m going to edit it.

MCA: So I said “mother fucker” a couple of times or he said “mother fucker” or something like that. And, ah, some cops went up to Madonna’s manager and said that the second we came off the stage that they were going to arrest us and put us in jail and it was that simple and there were no two ways about it.

Mike D: Like it was really scary ’cause as soon as we came off the stage they grabbed us and said, “Yo, boys. You’re going to prison.”

Ad-Rock: I tried to run away because I didn’t know what was going on and this guy, this cop, like he didn’t hit me that hard, but he like you know hit me in the back of the legs with his club. I mean if we had known in the first place we wouldn’t have done it. But this guy had to go and hit us.

MCA: I never knew that it was illegal to use profanity before this.

Mike D: You know, there’s a way we talk and it includes profanity. We never figured we’d be arrested for it.

Rocci Fisch: What’s it like opening for Madonna?

Mike D: Usually there’s about basically almost a riot breaking out after every show because either the crowd wants to kill us or we have to run from the girls because they mob us.

Ad-Rock: Every single night is definitely really hard work. Harder work than I ever really imagined. We go out there and we just have to win this audience over. They don’t want to see rap music. They don’t want to see the Beastie Boys. They don’t care what we’re doing. They want one thing and one thing only: that’s to see Madonna come on stage. But then we go out there, we work hard, we win them over, and then they get real happy. It’s really kind of cool.

Rocci Fisch: Are you guys the only white rappers?

MCA: It looks that way right now and I’m real surprised at it. Although kids always come up to me after the show and tell me they rap also. But we’re the only ones on vinyl, I imagine.

Rocci Fisch: Someone said today that maybe you’re “rappers for the suburbs.” How do you feel about somebody describing you that way?

Ad-Rock: Well whoever said that is an ignorant moron, because we’re certainly not rap music for the suburbs. Because if he ever listened to our records and knows anything about rap music. That we are soul, hardcore, b-boy music, and we do not play sucker music. Like a Chaka Kahn “I Feel for You” is suburb rap music. They think that anything with someone, you know, saying something in a rhyme is rap music.

Ad-Rock: But that’s certainly not us at all.

Mike D: I’d just like to say, like, these people just don’t realize that when we’re in New York City we’ll go to the worst neighborhood in Queens, play to an entirely black audience with someone like Kurtis Blow for a thousand people. This is not a suburban audience. This is like the hardest core urban audience. The thing that really bothers like white critics won’t like us, because they have this whole preconceived notion of what rap music is: you gotta go out there and be angry and sing about the ghetto. And that’s the only reason for rap music to exist. You know?

Rocci Fisch: How did you get your group name, Beastie Boys?

MCA: It’s from the good old days. We were a hardcore band.

Mike D: Yeah, we were like—I was like what, 14?

MCA: Yeah.

Mike D: I was like, 14, 15? That’s when we made our first record. We were all going to high school at the time and that’s how we met.

MCA: At time it was the stupidest name that I could possibly think of. And if you could think of a stupider name I’d probably be pretty impressed now. So lay it on me: can you think of a stupider name than the Beastie Boys?

Rocci Fisch: Not really

MCA: So then that answers your question right there.

Rocci Fisch: What’s def?

MCA: What do you mean?

Rocci Fisch: What do you mean def?

MCA: Def is uh, you know, we are def. I’d say that’s a good answer. We are def.

Ad-Rock: Def in New York is what—is something that’s really good, like us. You know what I mean? Def, like def jam.

Mike D: Kind of like if you put on a James Brown record and you just know that’s def.

MCA: Jam is something that you put on toast.

Ad-Rock: We’re very into breakfast.

Mike D: Yeah, we’re into breakfast a lot.

MCA: It’s like, we like hot butter on our breakfast toast and we also like def jam on it.

David Gerlach

Patrick Smith

Amy Drozdowska

Beastie Boys

“License to Ill”

Sunny Bak

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The interview was recorded on a reel-to-reel tape recorder in November 1969. Howard Smith was writing for the Village Voice. We uncovered this interview as part of the Smith Tapes project, which has preserved and remastered his remarkable collection of music interviews.

Howard Smith was an Oscar winning film director, broadcaster and journalist. Learn more here.

Are you hungry?

Why do you ask that?

Well, maybe we could order out for some sandwiches or something. Chicken delight or something. You’re not hungry? How about you: are you hungry? Oh, it’s lunchtime. Did you have breakfast this morning?

Yeah.

You did. What’d you have?

Oh, little things like chocolate cake and tea here.

Is that all you had?

That’s all I want.

You should eat more, Howard.

You put on a lot of weight. Are you eating a lot?

Well, um… You know that’s something that really bothers me. What’s wrong with being fat? That’s what I want to know. Why is there such…

I didn’t say there’s anything wrong with it.

Why is it so onerous to be fat? Um… I don’t see anything wrong with fat. You know? I mean, I remember when I used to weigh 185 pounds. I’m the same height. I was the same height that I am now and I weighed 185 pounds and I was going to college. And I had this food ticket at the cafeteria. And the cafeteria food is mainly all based on starch. You know it’s cheap food, right?

And so I don’t know what it was, but in order… I don’t know, I just felt like I was… If you missed your meal you just, you know… I just figured: “Well I was getting screwed, right?” If I missed a meal I blew it. So I’d get up at 6:30 every morning just to make breakfast, right? Eggs and grits and sausages and toast and milk. Then I’d go do a few classes. And I’d make it in there for lunch.

Mashed potatoes. Every now and then they’d put a little piece of meat in something, you know? Then I’d go to a few more classes. And then I’d go to dinner and it was more mashed potatoes.

And so about three months later I was 185 pounds. And you know what? I felt so great. I felt like a tank, you know. I felt like a large mammal. A big beast. When I’d move through the corridors or across the lawn, I just feel like I could knock anybody out of my way, you know. I was solid, man. It’s terrible to be thin and wispy, because, you know, you could get knocked over by a strong wind or something. Fat is beautiful.

How much do you weigh now?

I don’t know to tell you the truth. I’d guess somewhere in the neighborhood of about 150.

Really?

You want to compare biceps? (Laughs) You want a dead arm wrestling match, Howard? Are you ready? Are you in shape?

All right. Yeah.

Jim Morrison: We’ll wait until the interview’s over.

David Gerlach

Patrick Smith

Amy Drozdowska

The Doors “Soul Kitchen” |  “Who Do You Love”

Joe Jones  “Light My Fire” (The Doors)

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Cal interviewed Larry King for one of his regular “What I’ve Learned” pieces in Esquire. The conversation was recorded on microcassette tape in Los Angeles in 2001

Cal Fussman is a New York Times bestselling author and a writer-at-large for Esquire.

All these tales, any of the stories were not funny when they were happening. I was scared to death going to the principal’s office. Having firemen come running in when you’re asleep on the air. Scared to death. The night I went to the lady’s house. I mean, I mean, I was petrified.

I’d been in radio two weeks.  I was 23 years old. And I did everything because I did sports, I did news, I did disc jockey. And one day—they knew I was a glutton, because “Larry will do it”—and the station manager calls and says, “The all-night guy is sick. Would you like to fill in tonight?” “Sure! No problem.”

Now I’m in the station all alone. It was a small station. I’ll never forget this: I’m playing these records, and the phone rings and I pick it up and say, “WAHR” and this lady’s voice—I can still hear her voice—she goes, “I want you.” [Laughter] I go, “What did you say?” “I said I want you.” And I said to myself: there’s a couple of extra pluses to being in this business. So I said—the immediate thing, I swear to god—“I get off at six!”  She says, “Naw, that won’t do. I’ve got to go to work. You gotta come now.” I said, “But I’m on the air.” She says, “I’m only 12 blocks from the station. Here’s my address. If you can make it, please. I really want you.” Hangs up.

I got her address. I’m the only one in station. So here’s what the audience heard: “Ah folks, I’m only sitting in tonight, so I’ve got a real treat for you. You’re going to hear the entire Harry Belafonte at Carnegie Hall album uninterrupted.  I had 33 minutes, which is all the time I needed. To this day that’s still true.

So I put the record on. I get in the car, I swear to god. I rushed to her house 11 blocks away. I pull into her house. The light is on. The Volkswagen was in the driveway. She said the door would be open. The door was open. She was sitting— She wore a white negligee. I never saw her face clear. The little lamp was on.

The radio was on. Belafonte’s singing. She opens up her arms. I run into her arms. I put my arms— My cheek goes against her cheek, and on the radio Belafonte is singing “Jamaica Farewell.” “Down the way where the nights—”

“Where the nights—where the nights—” The record gets stuck. I push her back. I jump in the car. I drive to the station. And this is Jewish masochism: I keep the radio on. “Where the nights—where the nights—where the nights— where the nights—” and I was petrified. I come back. All the phones are ringing. I’m apologizing to people.

And the last call I never forgot. An old Jewish guy. “WAHR” and I hear this guy go, “Where the nights—where the nights.  I’m going crazy. I’m going crazy.” I said, “Sir, I apologize. Why didn’t you change the station?” He says, “I’m an invalid. They set the station for me on top of the bureau and I can’t reach it.”

David Gerlach

Patrick Smith

Amy Drozdowska

Sunsearcher “Latin Rhythm”

Harry Bellafonte “Jamaica Farewell”

AP

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Michael and James were still in high school back in the summer of 1966 when they interviewed Muhammad Ali in Chicago for their high school radio station –WNTH-FM at New Trier High School in Winnetka, Illinois. Michael held onto this reel-to-reel tape ever since that day.

Michael Aisner is a longtime radio lover and documentarian. James R. Stein is an Emmy-award winning screenwriter and television producer.

Muhammad Ali: This is Muhammad Ali, the Heavyweight Champion of the World, now at the lunar station Cape Kennedy on the way to Mars.

Michael Aisner: I was probably 9 years old when I first realized how much I loved radio. When I was ten, 11, 12, I would go down to Chicago and watch the real DJs work down at the big Chicago radio stations. And then I had an opportunity to get into New Trier High School in Winnetka, Ill., and they had a radio station there. And we called up—out of nowhere—celebrities that were in town in Chicago.

Muhammad Ali: Hello this is Muhammad Ali, the Heavyweight Champion of the World. I will be speaking to you soon on WNTH 88.1 FM in Winnetka.

Michael Aisner: Okay, so we’re 17 years old. We’re sitting in the office, and Ali screeches up in his red Cadillac convertible. Twenty-four years old. Comes in the office, and this girl comes and sits on his lap. She must have been 18 or 19 years old, and he starts doing this riff of him going to Mars and fighting the champion up on Mars.

Muhammad Ali: We estimate our time of getting there in about 10 years, 1976. I expect to fight to go about 12 seconds. I’m fighting the Green Giant up there, name of [gibberish name] and after knocking him out I hope to be back on Earth at about 1986.

Michael Aisner: I have this microphone in front of this guy who is one of the most famous people on Earth and we start to ask him questions.

Michael Aisner: Okay, Muhammad Ali. How did you first become interested in boxing?

Muhammad Ali: Well, I started about 12 years ago. Someone stole my bicycle and I said I was going to learn to fight so that I could catch him and beat him up. But I never did catch him. But I ended up the champ of the whole world.

Michael Aisner: That’s right. Is there any particular boxer that you really idolized before you became a pro?

Muhammad Ali: Sugar Ray Robinson was my idol. And he’s still, I think, the greatest of all time.

Michael Aisner: Did you more or less try to pattern yourself after him?

Muhammad Ali: Well, some of the ideas I got from him. Foot work, left jab, things like that.

Michael Aisner: Did you resent that hard training you had to go through before major fights?

Muhammad Ali: I’ve never really resented hard work because I’ve always liked it. Up every morning for roadwork. Going to the gymnasium every day at 12 o’clock. I never change my pattern.

Michael Aisner: Why did you feel that you had to campaign for your first fight with Sonny Liston?

Muhammad Ali: There were so many fellows ranked over me until couldn’t just whoop them all. So I had to out-shadow them by talking. It made me a bigger drawing card so promoters wanted me instead of the rest. It gave me a quicker shot at the title.

Michael Aisner: Mr. Ali, what in your estimation is the future of boxing today?

Muhammad Ali: Well if the boxers are a little more colorful, talk a little like I did and just do half as much as I did for boxing, it will be all right.

Michael Aisner: What business do you feel you would like to go into after your retirement?

Muhammad Ali: Oh, real estate. Real estate building. Projects. Apartment houses.

Michael Aisner: As I was leaving, I did something that I had never done in any of my other interviews and that is I asked him for an autograph. And he put out an album and I actually had him sign it. And he signed it “From Muhammad Ali. World Champ.” And it says “1966.”

Muhammad Ali: So I hope that all of you will be here waiting for me and tell your children before they come into this world here on Earth that the Champion is leaving now and will be back in 20 years with the Universal Title. Thank you.

Michael Aisner: I guess If I have any regrets at all is I didn’t get him to somehow spit his gum out during the interview. He was sitting there chomping away on a piece of gum. It’s like, “come on, man, I’m trying to get a good clean cut here.”

David Gerlach and Jessica Bennett

Sky Dylan-Robbins

Colin Raff

Amy Drozdowska

Kevin MacLeod “Backed Vibes Clean” via The Free Music Archive

Cal Tjader “You’ll Never Get to Heaven”

Thomas Hoepker/Magnum

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