Inside the Rivalry: Blue Angels vs. Thunderbirds

What really separates the U.S. Navy Blue Angels from the U.S. Air Force Thunderbirds? In this exclusive episode, we dive deep into the history, aircraft, training, team culture, and yes—a bit of the friendly rivalry—between America’s premier flight demonstration teams.

Joining me are two pilots who lived it:
🔵 Matt Seamon, Blue Angels Pilot (1989–1991)
🔴 Mike “Mo” Beale, Thunderbirds Pilot (1990–1991) and President of the Thunderbird Alumni Association

Together, they share never-before-heard stories, unique insights on what makes each team special, and personal reflections on how their time on the teams shaped their lives.

Topics Covered:

• Aircraft differences (F/A-18 vs. F-16)
  
  
• Why the Blue Angels don’t wear G-suits
  
  
• Support aircraft: Fat Albert vs. Thunderbird 14
  
  
• Team training in El Centro & Nellis
  
  
• Solo pilot life, formation flying, and team philosophy
  
  
• Behind-the-scenes banter and a few epic pranks

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SUPPORT THE MISSION
This is the third episode in a special four-part series launching during Mental Health Awareness Month to support the Blue Angels Foundation, whose mission is to provide critical care and services to wounded veterans transitioning back to civilian life.

Donate today  ➡️ https://blueangelsfoundation.givevirtuous.org/donate/support-our-nations-veterans-blue-angels-phantoms-fundraiser

Anyone who donates $250 or more will receive a limited-edition Blue Angel Phantoms trucker hat—this hat is not available for sale.

All donors, regardless of amount, will also be entered into a drawing on July 1, 2025 to receive a giveaway bundle that includes:

🔵 A Blue Angel Phantoms hat
🔵 Blue Angels Homecoming by Laura Bogan
🔵 A metal aircraft timeline art piece by Chris Bogan

❗ After donating, be sure to check your confirmation email and fill out the contact form to confirm you want to be entered into the drawing and provide your name and shipping address. 

Fundraiser officially ends on Monday, June 30, 2025

For any questions regarding this fundraiser, reach out to Ryan via email: [email protected]

EPISODE DESCRIPTION: 
Captain Harley H. Hall was the Flight Leader and Commanding Officer of the U.S. Navy Blue Angels—a decorated combat pilot, father, and husband. On January 27, 1973, he became the last U.S. Naval Aviator shot down during the Vietnam War. Despite being seen alive on the ground, Harley was never returned with the other POWs.

In this rare and deeply personal interview, Mary Lou Hall—Harley’s wife—shares her powerful story. She recounts how they met, what it was like supporting Harley during his time with the Blue Angels, and the devastating day she learned he had been shot down. Most importantly, she speaks to the decades-long battle she fought for answers—not just for herself, but as a leading advocate for POW/MIA families across the country.

This audio interview is accompanied by rare historical footage from Threshold: The Blue Angels Experience, photography by former Blue Angels team photographer Ron Rentfrow, and archival materials from the National Archives and Vanderbilt News Archive.

Support the show

SUPPORT THE MISSION
This is the first episode in a special four-part series launching during Mental Health Awareness Month to support the Blue Angels Foundation, whose mission is to provide critical care and services to wounded veterans transitioning back to civilian life.

Donate today  ➡️ https://blueangelsfoundation.givevirtuous.org/donate/support-our-nations-veterans-blue-angels-phantoms-fundraiser

Anyone who donates $250 or more will receive a limited-edition Blue Angel Phantoms trucker hat—this hat is not available for sale.

All donors, regardless of amount, will also be entered into a drawing on July 1, 2025 to receive a giveaway bundle that includes:

🔵 A Blue Angel Phantoms hat
🔵 Blue Angels Homecoming by Laura Bogan
🔵 A metal aircraft timeline art piece by Chris Bogan

❗ After donating, be sure to check your confirmation email and fill out the contact form to confirm you want to be entered into the drawing and provide your name and shipping address. 

Fundraiser officially ends on Monday, June 30, 2025

For Any Questions regarding this fundraiser, reach out to Ryan via email: [email protected]

The Blue Angels on 9/11 – A Firsthand Account | Produced by Ryan Nothhaft

On the morning of September 11, 2001, the U.S. Navy Blue Angels were in the middle of a routine practice when the world changed forever. In this powerful conversation, we hear directly from those who were there—Boss Rob Ffield, the Commanding Officer and Flight Leader in 2001, and Scott “Intake” Kartvedt, the Opposing Solo Pilot at the time.

Together, they recount:

• The final Blue Angels jet team flyover of the World Trade Center in June 2001
  
  
• The moment they were forced to abort a maneuver mid-flight on the morning of 9/11
  
  
• How the team prepared to shift from demonstration squadron to combat-ready unit
  
  
• The emotional return to airshows and what it meant to represent the U.S. military in a time of national grief and unity

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The Blue Angels are back and ready to kick off their 2025 airshow season! In this episode of the Blue Angel Phantoms Podcast, we sit down with LCDR Lilly “Lunchbox” Montana, Blue Angel #8 and the Team’s Events Coordinator, to get an inside look at what it takes to make the Team and execute one of the most logistically complex schedules in aviation.

In this episode, we discuss:

• Winter Training in El Centro – How the team has been preparing for the season
  
  
• The Role of an Events Coordinator – The behind-the-scenes work that ensures the Blue Angels’ success
  
  
• Advance Site Visits – The airshow locations LCDR Montana visited and what goes into planning
  
  
• Her Road to the Blues – Applying three times before finally making the team
  
  
• Getting the Call – The unforgettable moment she learned she was selected
  
  
• Collaboration with the Thunderbirds – Her recent ride in an F-16

From sharing the story behind her callsign, "Lunchbox," to giving us a firsthand look at life behind the scenes of the Blue Angels, LCDR Montana’s journey is one of resilience, determination, and passion for naval aviation.

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1973 was a bleak year for the Blue Angels with exacting consequences. Three distinct incidents resulted in the destruction of six F4 Phantoms and the tragic loss of three team members, including flight leader LCDR Skip Umstead. The future seemed uncertain for the Navy’s Flight Exhibition Team, which had showcased demonstrations worldwide for the last quarter-century. However, Navy Leadership recognized the Blue Angels' significant recruiting potential and initiated a plan to reorganize the Team, aligning them more effectively with the demands of their high-performance culture.

In this episode of the Blue Angel Phantoms Podcast, you'll hear from Boss Tony Less, the first appointed Commanding Officer of the Blue Angels in 1974, as they transitioned from an Exhibition Team to an official Naval Squadron. Boss Less not only delves into his personal transition within the Blue Angels but also offers valuable insights into the Team's choice of the sleeker McDonnell Douglas A4 Skyhawk as their new platform, the modifications involved in becoming a squadron, and the evolution of the flight demonstration during his tenure.

This interview, conducted over 25 years ago, is courtesy of aviation author and historian Nick Veronico, for his book "Blue Angels: A Flyby History." The captivating pictures in this presentation were provided by Jim Preston, the Blue Angels' official photographer during their initial years with the A4 Skyhawk. Video of the Skyhawk demonstration is from the archive of Boeing Images. 

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With its sleek and unusual tailless design, the Vought F7U Cutlass seemed like a perfect fit for the U.S. Navy's Flight Demonstration Team, the Blue Angels. However, as the Blues would find out, the aircraft's complex development history led to significant challenges and several near brushes with tragedy. 

In this brand new episode of the Blue Angel Phantoms Podcast, you'll hear directly from RADM Edward "Whitey" Feightner, a WWII Ace and Navy test pilot, who was charged with developing the Cutlass program on the Blue Angels for the 1952 airshow season. What makes this particular interview all that more special, is that it was conducted over 25 years ago by aviation historian, Nicholas A. Veronico, who is publicly sharing this historic treasure for the first time.

Originally recorded as research for Veronico's book "The Blue Angels: A Fly-By History", Rear Admiral Feightner provides detailed insight into the Blue Angels reformation after the Korean War, the selection process for the F7U, and the painstaking task of performing aerial demonstrations with the Cutlass' faulty controls. RADM Feightner also discusses the Blues' challenges with the Grumman F9F-5 Panther and recalls his tragic final day on the Team in which pilot Buddy Rich was lost in a midair collision at NAS Corpus Christi. 

RADM Feightner's naval career spanned over 33 years, where he achieved early success flying both the F4F Wildcat and F6F Hellcat during WWII and earning 9 aerial victories. Post war, he became a prolific test pilot for the Navy where he was introduced to the F7U Cutlass and holds the distinction of being the only pilot to launch and recover the F7U-1 on a carrier. 

In 1952, Feightner was asked to take command of the Blue Angels and install the F7U as the Team's primary demonstration platform. Aware of the F7U's extreme limitation, Feightner was able to persuade the Navy to select the F9F Panther instead and reserve the Cutlass as a solo act. This resulted in Roy "Butch" Voris, the Team's first flight leader, to return and take point and allow Feightner to focus on the F7U. 

The airshow season was plagued by technical problems including a loss of flight controls on several occasions. With increased strain on maintenance and growing safety concerns, the Blue Angels canceled the F7U program after 7 months. 

RADM Feightner retired in 1974 and passed away on April 1, 2020 at the age 100.  

Special thanks to Nick Veronico for sharing this cassette tape with the Blue Angel Phantoms YouTube Channel.  

The interview featured within this video is protected by copyright owned by Nicholas A. Veronico. Any unauthorised reproduction, distribution, or public display of this interview or any part thereof is strictly prohibited without written consent from Mr. Veronico. © 2023 Nicholas A. Veronico

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With the U.S. Navy Blue Angels launching into their 77th year, the 2023 airshow season kicked off in grand fashion at Naval Base Ventura County, Point Mugu. The event not only marked a rare occurrence for both the Blue Angels and Air Force Thunderbirds performing at the same airshow, but also the Blue Angels paying tribute to CAPT Harley H. Hall, the Team’s former Flight Leader and the last naval aviator to be shot down during the Vietnam War. 

Honoring Boss Hall’s legacy and sacrifice fifty years after his disappearance on January 27, 1973, the Blue Angels extended an invite to his son, Harley Hall II, to participate in a VIP ride in the back seat of the Team’s #7 F/A-18 Super Hornet. With his name emblazoned in the famous yellow Blue Angels font beneath the canopy rail, Hall climbed into the cockpit with one goal in mind, to make his father and all those that served with him proud. 

At the controls of Harley’s ride the afternoon of March 17, 2023 was LCDR Thomas Zimmerman, the Blue Angels Narrator and # 7 pilot, who was charged with demonstrating the full characteristics of the Super Hornet.  Enduring nausea-inducing high g-force maneuvers including the Minimum Radius Turn (MRT), Horizontal Rolls and the Carrier Break, Hall’s genetic makeup prevailed as he completed the ride without passing out or getting sick.  Upon landing, Hall was greeted by the entire Blue Angels team led by CDR Alex Armatas 

In this brand new interview, Harley Hall II opens up about the significance of the opportunity to honor his father at Point Mugu and the internal pressure he placed on himself to ensure he represented his family, the Navy and all those that served alongside father to the best of his ability. Hall also provides insight into the weeks leading up to his VIP flight, including a bout with illness that almost jeopardized his participation at the airshow.  

With great attention to detail, Hall discusses all aspects of his day with the Blues, including having Bill Switzer, a former F4 Phantom pilot that flew on Boss Hall’s 1971 Blue Angels team, on site to support him. He also describes his appreciation for LCDR Zimmerman, Crew Chief Sean Donoghue and the culture of excellence displayed by the entire Blue Angels Flight Demonstration Squadron. 

Hall goes on to share several of the techniques he used throughout his flight to endure high g-forces without succumbing to a loss of consciousness and what it felt like to have seven times his body weight pressing him into his ejection seat. 

As the discussion comes to a close, Hall opens up about a moment of closure he felt in the hours that followed his ride of a lifetime. 

Special thanks to the Hall family, the U.S. Navy Blue Angels and the Blue Angels Association

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For the first time in three years, the U.S. Navy Blue Angels have a new flight leader. Cmdr. Alexander Armatas officially took command of the Naval Flight Exhibition Team on November 13, 2022, at a ceremony at the National Naval Aviation Museum in Pensacola, Florida. He replaced Captain Brian Kesselring, who led the Team during its 75th anniversary and the transition to the F/A-18 Super Hornet. 

In this interview, Boss Armatas discusses his priorities and focus as the new commanding officer and flight leader for the Blue Angels, including getting to know each member of the Team, mastering the 45 minute air show demonstration, and ensuring his fitness and nutrition are optimized for high intensity flying and a rigorous schedule. With winter training in El Centro, California just weeks away, Boss Armatas also provides insight into the current flying syllabus and milestones the Team are focused on achieving, including flying the first Delta Formation for the 2023 Blue Angels. 

A native of Skaneateles, New York, Boss Armatas cites flyovers by a formation of F-16 Falcons from the New York National Guard and exposure to cargo operations at the Syracuse International Airport as early influences that sparked his passion for aviation. He also attended a number of airshows in London, Ontario, Canada during his informative years where he witnessed the Blue Angels perform for the first time. 

Graduating from the United States Naval Academy in 2002 with a degree in aerospace engineering, Boss Armatas earned his Wings of Gold in June of 2005 at Naval Air Station (NAS) Meridian, Mississippi. Initially assigned to NAS Lemoore, California, he served in a variety of different roles as part of Strike Fighter Squadron (VFA) 115, the “Eagles” and deployed three times on board the USS Ronald Reagan (CVN-76) in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom and Enduring Freedom. 

In 2009, Boss Armatas graduated from the world famous TOPGUN course at NAS Fallon, Nevada before joining VFA-122 the “Flying Eagles” where he was named the 2010 VFA-122  Instructor Pilot of the Year. 

Transferring to VFA-14 the “Tophatters”, Boss Armatas supported Operation Enduring Freedom in 2013 aboard the USS John C Stennis (CVN-74). Following this tour, he reported to NAS Oceana in Virginia Beach, Virginia to serve as the Department Head for FVA-143 the “Pukin’ Dogs” and deployed aboard the USS Harry S Truman (CVN-75) in support of Operation Inherent Resolve. 

After  serving as a Strike Fighter Placement Officer for the Navy Personnel Command (NPC) in Millington, Tennessee in 2017, Boss Armatas reported to VFA-105 the “Gunslingers” where he served as both Executive Officer and Commanding Officer during his tenure and deployed twice aboard the USS Dwight D Eisenhower (CVN-69) in support of Operation Freedom’s Sentinel. 

With the encouragement of former Blue Angels pilot, John Hiltz, Boss Armatas submitted his application for the Blue Angels after accumulating more that 4,100 flight hours and 911 carrier-arrested landing. He was announced as the Commanding Officer of the Blue Angels in April of 2022 and officially joined the team in August. 

2023 Blue Angels Team

1. CDR Alexander Armatas
2. LCDR Chris Kapuschansky
3. LT Amanda Lee
4. LT Scott Goossens
5. LCDR Julius Bratton
6. LCDR Griffin Stangel
7. LCDR Thomas Zimmerman
8. LCDR Brian Vaught
XO CRD Jon Fay
M1 CAPT Jackson Streiff, USMC
M2 MAJ Joshua Soltan, USMC
M3 CAPT Samuel Petko, USMC
MO LT Henry Cedeno
Assistant MO LCDR Gregory Jones
Flight Surgeon LT Philippe Warren
SO LT Paul Kruger

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Featuring Boss Gil Rud, Blue Angels Flight Leader (1986 - 1988) | Produced & hosted by Ryan Nothhaft, Blue Angel Phantoms

In this Interview, Boss Rud discusses his brand new memoir “From the Prairie to the Pacific: A Blue Angel’s Journey” that details his life from growing up in a small remote farming town in North Dakota to becoming the Commanding Officer of the Blue Angels and later the Captain of an aircraft carrier.  With ten deployments under his belt, Boss Rud attributes many of the lessons learned from his informative years on his family’s farm to later serving him well in his naval career.   

A graduate of North Dakota State University in 1966, Boss Rud attended Officer Candidate School (OCS) at NAS Pensacola the following year. Completing his flight training at NAS Chase Field in Beeville, TX, Rud was assigned to fly the A4 Skyhawk and deployed to the Mediterranean aboard the USS Forrestal. Upon his return, Rud switched to the LTV A-7 Corsair and combat deployed to Vietnam aboard the USS Oriskany in 1971. He’d also fly air support in the subsequent evacuation of Saigon known as Operation Frequent Wind in April of 1975.

Upon the conclusion of combat in Vietnam, Rud held a variety of roles including RAG Instructor, Landing Signal Officer (LSO) and Commanding Officer of Strike Fighter Squadron 192 (VFA-192) also known as the “World Famous Golden Dragons”. It was during his time as the Head of Junior Officer Detailing in Arlington, Virginia in 1985 when Rud was encouraged by Jim Maslowski and Randy Clark, two former Blue Angels, to submit an application to become the Blue Angels’ Commanding Officer for the 1986 season. Despite 11 other applicants, Boss Rud was selected for the role and took command of the team for their final season in the A4 Skyhawk.  

Boss Rud recalls several significant memories from his first season with the Blue Angels, including flying an airshow in Fargo, North Dakota in front of his family and friends. Unbeknownst to Boss Rud, also in the audience that weekend was a nine year old boy, Brian Kesselring, attending his first Blue Angels air show and would later go on to also serve as the Commanding Officer of the Team. 

1986 also marked the release of the feature film “Top Gun” produced by Paramount Pictures, and the music video “Dreams” by Van Halen. Each played a significant role in driving massive audiences to air shows in the years that followed. 

Boss Rud also discusses the incredible work done by Navy test pilots during the transition to the F/A-18 for the 1987 season and the tragic loss of Keith Crawford, the test pilot responsible for developing some of the team’s key flight control modifications. 

With the new Hornets came new challenges. Boss Rud details how modifications had to be made with air traffic control in Pensacola so that the team could efficiently get their six jets to altitude for transit to air show sites. He also recalls the Blue Angels’ flyover of Super Bowl XXII in 1988 and his emotions after landing for his final airshow. 

Additional roles Boss Rud held prior to his retirement include CO of the USS Wabash, Deputy Commander & Chief of Staff of Task Force Five, and CO of the USS Constellation.

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In what was once thought to be an impossibility, the Blue Angels made history in 1992 by becoming the first United States flight team to fly over the skies of Moscow, Russia. The momentous visit served as a way to ease tensions between the once Cold War rivals. The Team’s trip to the former Soviet Union was highlighted by two air shows and a ride exchange between the Blue Angels and pilots from the Russian Knights Aerobatic Flight Team. 

The significance of these events were not lost on the Blue Angels’ Lead Solo Pilot, John “Gucci” Foley, who joins this episode of Blue Angel Phantoms to share insights and behind the scenes stories from that now famous ‘92 European tour, as well as his naval career that spanned 17 years and saw him ascend to the rank of Commander. 

In this brand new interview, Gucci candidly dives into his navy experience and opens the discussion with his upbringing as a German born army brat and the influence his father had on him to pursue a military career. It was during this same time period that Foley attended a Blue Angels air show and proclaimed to his father that one day he too would be a military aviator. 

True to his word, Foley applied to the military academies but was initially rejected for having too much protein in his urine. Not one to quit, he attended University of Colorado for his freshman year of college before successfully transferring to the United States Naval Academy where he graduated in 1982. 

With a desire to fly with an F/A-18 Hornet squadron, Foley was selected for jet training at NAS Chase Field in Beeville, Texas. However, after receiving his Wings of Gold in 1984, and in alignment with the needs of the Navy, Foley would initially be assigned to Attack Squadron 22 (VA-22) flying the A-7 Corsair II. Disappointed with the assignment at the time, Foley now reflects that the three years he spent flying the A-7 were critical in his development as a Navy pilot. 

Aboard the USS Enterprise (CVN-65) Foley and VA-22 deployed to the Western Pacific, Mediterranean and Indian Ocean in 1986 and later to the Persian Gulf in 1988. It was during these deployments that Foley received the Top Nugget Award for first-tour pilots in Carrier Air Wing Eleven, and was also recognized as one of the “Top 10” of all air wing pilots.  

Upon returning from the Persian Gulf, Foley transferred to Marine Fighter Attack Training Squadron 101 (VMFAT-101) based in El Toro, California, where he served as an F/A-18 Hornet flight instructor pilot and landing signal officer. 

It was during his tour with VMFAT-101 that Foley submitted an application and pursued a position with the Blue Angels that was almost derailed when he accidentally deployed live ordinance from his aircraft on a training exercise. Grounded by his commanding officer and his letter of recommendation revoked, Foley openly shared his lessons learned from the mishap during his interview with the Blue Angels and was selected as the Team’s narrator for the 1990 air show season. 

Foley would enjoy a three year tenure with the Blue Angels that would see him progress from the team’s narrator to a position in the demonstration as a solo pilot. Having developed a strong bond with his opposing solo, Ken Switzer, for the 1992 season, the two explored implementing new maneuvers including the Section High Alpha Pass and the Solo Section Take-Off. Both maneuvers are now featured in the demonstration that Blue Angels perform today. 

During 1992 season, the Blue Angels traveled to Europe for the first time since 1973 to perform 16 air shows in 8 different countries including Russia, Bulgaria, Romania, England, Spain, Italy, Finland and Sweden. 

As if it happened yesterday, Foley fondly reflects on a flight he gave to his Russian counterpart that rendered his new comrade unconscious du

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