(0:00) About the Boardroom Governance Summit (Aug 26-27, 2026) 

(1:17) Intro

(2:45) About the podcast sponsor: The American College of Governance Counsel.

(3:31) Start of interview. 

(4:39) AI and Governance Today

(5:34) Data Center Politics (reference to moratorium by New York State)

(6:48) About the 3rd Rome Conference on AI, Ethics and Governance

(9:06) AI Hype and Job Fears

(14:45) Birth and focus of The Chairs Circle and Limerick Lane Cellars.

(22:53) CEO Succession Lessons

(30:58) Founders versus Boards

(37:04) EVs and China’s Rise

(44:58) Semiconductors, Chips and Geopolitics

(49:03) Boards in a Fractured World "[W]e now need to have engaged board members, board members who are curious, who read, who stay up to speed on things, who keep asking more questions. You cannot have directors who are just calling it in anymore."

(53:31) Government as Shareholder

Karen Francis DeGolia is a board member at Vontier, CelLink, and NAUTO. Penny Herscher is a board member at Lumentum, Penguin Solutions, Forvia SA, and Modern Health.

You can follow Evan on social media at:

X: @evanepstein

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/ 

Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/

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To support this podcast you can join as a subscriber of the Boardroom Governance Newsletter at https://evanepstein.substack.com/

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Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License

(0:00) About the Boardroom Governance Summit (Aug 26-27, 2026) 

(0:55) Intro

(2:37) About the podcast sponsor: The American College of Governance Counsel.

(3:24) Start of interview. 

(4:23) Origin story Mayree Clark

(6:08) Origin story Linda Riefler

(8:23) About their Leading-Edge Stewardship framework and personal road-map.

(11:38) Teamwork and Long-Term Value Creation

(16:03) On board diversity and pace of change

(19:02) Boards in distress: Mayree joining Ally Financial in financial crisis (2009)

(21:39) MSCI Culture and CEO Relations

(26:02) Tough calls on CEO transitions (example of CSX CEO transition)

(32:39) Private Equity Board Lessons (flexibility on decision-making and talent pools)

(36:22) Handling under-performing directors

(43:11) German Governance Across Borders (Mayree's experience serving on Deutsche Bank's board)

(48:06) Purpose, Adversity, and Stewardship

(50:42) What are the 1-3 books that have greatly influenced your life: 

(53:36) Who were their mentors, and what they learned from them.

(56:37) An unusual habit or an absurd thing that they love.

(1:00:16) The living person they most admire.

Mayree Clark is a longtime corporate director, founder and Managing Partner of Eachwin Capital, and former senior executive at Morgan Stanley. She currently serves on the boards of Ally Financial and Deutsche Bank AG. 

Linda Riefler is an experienced corporate director and former senior executive at Morgan Stanley. She currently serves on the boards of CSX Corporation, MSCI Inc., and North American Partners in Anesthesia, and is chair of Pencils of Promise.

You can follow Evan on social media at:

X: @evanepstein

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/ 

Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/

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To support this podcast you can join as a subscriber of the Boardroom Governance Newsletter at https://evanepstein.substack.com/

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Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License

(0:00) About the Boardroom Governance Summit (Aug 26-27, 2026) 

(0:55) Intro

(2:44) About the podcast sponsor: The American College of Governance Counsel.

(3:30) Start of interview. 

(4:16) Origin story Marie Bafus

(5:30) Origin story Wendy Grasso

(7:34) Diving into their article AI in the Boardroom: What Directors Need to Know Now

(4:14) Why AI Needs Board Oversight

(12:00) Caremark and Oversight Duties

(15:12) Mission-Critical Risk Cases. Reference to Marchand case (2019) and Boeing case (2021)

(19:18) Where AI Belongs in Governance (board level and board committees)

(21:28) Defining Mission-Critical AI

(24:45) Strategy, Capital Allocation, and Judgment

(29:50) Board Minutes as Litigation Evidence

(33:52) Private Companies, Same Duties

(38:35) AI Washing and Disclosure Risks

(43:10) How Boards (and Board Members) Can Use AI

(47:08) Hallucinations, Confidentiality, and Privilege. Reference to U.S. v Heppner case (2026)

(52:03) Building an AI Usage Policy

(53:36) Recording Boards with AI (note taking apps)

(57:05) Workforce Trust and Environmental Risk

(1:00:00) AI for Oversight Itself

(1:02:02) AI’s Impact on Legal Practice

Marie Bafus is a partner in Fenwick’s Securities Litigation Practice and Wendy Grasso is counsel in Fenwick’s Corporate Practice.

You can follow Evan on social media at:

X: @evanepstein

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/ 

Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/

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To support this podcast you can join as a subscriber of the Boardroom Governance Newsletter at https://evanepstein.substack.com/

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Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License

(0:00) About the Boardroom Governance Summit (Aug 26-27, 2026) 

(0:54) Intro

(2:15) About the podcast sponsor: The American College of Governance Counsel.

(3:01) Start of interview. *Reference to prior episode with Terry (E131) from 2024.

(3:50) About Terry's role as Co-Chair of WilmerHale's Sports & Gaming Practice 

(4:52) Sports Investment Boom, now including institutional investors and private equity 

(8:40) League Ownership Models (ie. NFL, MLS, WPHL, etc)

(14:24) Player Revenue Battles (example of WNBA)

(16:34) Terry's sports governance practice

(18:18) The Soccer World Cup, Global Expansion, and cross-border investments

(20:35) U.S. Sporting Franchises 

(23:09) Betting platforms and Integrity. Growth of prediction markets like Polymarket and Kalshi.

(26:58) Women’s Sports Surge

(32:38) Family Business Governance

(38:06) Family Office Structures

(41:11) Wine Industry Pressure

(44:27) Future of Sports Investing

(47:03) College Sports Revenue Sharing. Reference to House case settlement

(49:55) Promotion and Relegation

Teresa (Terry) Johnson is co-chair of WilmerHale’s Sports & Gaming Practice, and a partner in the firm’s Transactional Department. Ms. Johnson is an experienced sports and corporate transactions lawyer with over three decades of experience advising clients on securities transactions, corporate governance and capital markets matters.

You can follow Evan on social media at:

X: @evanepstein

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/ 

Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/

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To support this podcast you can join as a subscriber of the Boardroom Governance Newsletter at https://evanepstein.substack.com/

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Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License

(0:00) Intro to this episode

(2:52) About the podcast sponsor: The American College of Governance Counsel

(3:39) Start of interview

(4:18) Keith Giarman's origin story. About DHR Global

(9:33) Tony Abate's origin story. Current boards: Wolfspeed, GTT Communications, Mitel, and Tacora Resources.

(23:52) Turnaround Board Playbook. Three phases: 1) Fix the balance sheet; 2) Turnaround strategy, and time to turn to the income statement; and 3) Exit the business.

(28:50) Private Equity Board Structure. It is all contextual.

(33:40) Compensation in PE boards.

(31:15) What Makes Boards Effective, from Tony based on his chairmanship experience. Execution vs process. *Execution: 1) Skill Set Distribution ("Three is too few, five too many."), 2) Relevance of that skill set distribution to the situation at hand, and 3) Willingness to engage with the management team between board meetings ("the most important" goes to board culture).

(38:34) Building the Board Agenda, from Tony: Tight agenda in three buckets: 1) Decisions needed now, 2) input without a decision, and 3) FYI. Most boards get stuck on FYI and never reach the real decisions. Then 40 to 50% of the deck should be standardized financial and operational KPIs (flag only what's changing), one rotating deep dive, and executive sessions with and without the CEO.

(42:53) LLCs and Governance Dynamics in PE.

(45:52) AI and Board Talent Demand. "Matrix management"

(50:36) Underestimated Governance Risks. From Keith: for board members: "Are they aligned? Are they courageous? And are they adaptive?" From Tony: "The board should talk about the what, not the how." Difference between supervising and execution. Caveat: some PE firms are very prescriptive.

(56:23) Founder-Led or Board-Led companies.

(1:00:16) What are the 1-3 books that have greatly influenced your life: 

(1:05:00) Who were their mentors, and what they learned from them.

(1:09:07) Quotes they think of often or live their life by.

(1:11:17) An unusual habit or an absurd thing that they love.

(1:12:21) The living person they most admire.

Keith Giarman is a Managing Partner of the Private Equity Practice at DHR Global, and Tony Abate is an experienced board chair, director, investor, and operating executive.

You can follow Evan on social media at:

X: @evanepstein

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/ 

Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/

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To support this podcast you can join as a subscriber of the Boardroom Governance Newsletter at https://evanepstein.substack.com/

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Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License

(0:00) Intro *Reference to the Boardroom Governance Summit at Limerick Lane Cellars, Healdsburg, California (Aug 26-27, 2026) 

(2:12) About the podcast sponsor: The American College of Governance Counsel.

(2:59) Start of interview. 

(4:00) Origin Story of Emily, and Stewardship 

(6:15) From Engineer to CEO 

(7:14) Companies that she led: Elo Touch Systems (97-00), Capstone Turbine (02-03), Apexon (04-07) and NovaTorque (09-17).

(9:50) Changing geopolitics of manufacturing

(10:49) First Boards and Public Company Lessons (first board experience in Japan) "The soft skills are the hard part to do."

(15:48) On serving in private VC-backed boards. "If you know one board, you know one board. I mean, they are all so different."

(22:43) On serving in non-profit boards. "It's one of the best possible ways to get governance experience."

(26:20) CEO Mistakes

(32:03) Board Succession for leadership and skills.

(35:33) Board Evaluations Done Right 

(37:41) What Makes Great Directors. *reference to Leading Edge Stewardship, by Linda Riefler and Mayree Clark (Stanford Women on Boards). "Asking the right question, at the right time, in the right way."

(39:57) AI and the Boardroom.

(46:16) Innovation Versus Oversight. "The goal is informed oversight without operational interference"

(49:34) Teaching Governance to Stanford Students 

(52:17) Boards need to have a long-term orientation in this short-term world.

(52:34) Books that have greatly influenced her life:

(54:12) Her mentors. "[T]hey told me things I needed to hear in a way that I could hear them because it's easy to get defensive."

(55:38) Quotes that she thinks of often or lives her life by. "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed, citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.' by Margaret Mead.

(56:43) An unusual habit or an absurd thing that she loves. 

(57:30) The living person she most admires in governance: Bob Joss.

Emily Liggett serves on the boards of Ultra Clean Technology and Materion Corporation. She also serves as Lecturer at Stanford GSB, where she teaches corporate governance and board leadership.

You can follow Evan on social media at:

X: @evanepstein

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/ 

Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/

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To support this podcast you can join as a subscriber of the Boardroom Governance Newsletter at https://evanepstein.substack.com/

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Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License

(0:00) Intro, *Reference to the Boardroom Governance Summit (Aug 26-27, 2026) 

(2:42) About the podcast sponsor: The American College of Governance Counsel.

(3:28) Start of interview. *Reference to prior episode with Greg (E136) from 2024.

(5:14) Market Boom and AI Supercycle

(6:14) AI Is Changing Everything

(9:06) How does a VC use AI (venture business: sourcing, selection, and stewardship)

(12:13) Cloud and Startup Costs, rise of seed rounds and institutional angel investors

(15:13) JSV Launchpad, a 10-week, in-person summer program in SF from JSV for early-stage student AI founders 

(18:50) SaaSpocalypse Debate and AI Washing (reference to the Albert Saniger / Nate Inc case)

(21:33) Growth Metrics Rewritten (when Anthropic has grown 80x year over year) "the best solution for high prices is high prices"

(24:20) Sorting SaaS Risks

(27:30) Defensibility in the AI Era: 1) Network effects, 2) Systems of record, and 3) Regulated workflow.

(29:52) AI impact to companies: 1) Are the foundation models existential? 2) How much have you incorporated AI into your platform or your product? 3) How important is AI within your product? and 4) How much have you integrated AI into your operations? "In a world where building software is easy, one of the things that we're already seeing within our portfolio, and I think we'll see more of this, is... horizontal expansion (expanding to adjacent businesses)."

(32:33) AI, Jobs, and Layoffs (*reference to this FT article: What if remote working, not AI, is to blame for weak junior hiring?)

(38:28) Private Markets and IPOs. Liquidity in venture ecosystem (M&A and private equity).

(42:02) SpaceX, Anthropic and OpenAI IPOs

(45:18) Data Centers and Backlash "It's easy to demonize"

(46:16) Regulation and Global Competition "AI right now has become a great bogeyman for both sides."

(50:14) Board Strategy for AI

(52:12) On Kirkland & Ellis' $500m bet to develop its own AI technology

Greg Gretsch is a Founding Partner and Managing Director of Jackson Square Ventures, an early-stage VC firm based in San Francisco. Greg has more than two decades of experience in VC and five of his early-stage investments have gone on to exits or valuations above $1 billion.

You can follow Evan on social media at:

X: @evanepstein

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/ 

Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/

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To support this podcast you can join as a subscriber of the Boardroom Governance Newsletter at https://evanepstein.substack.com/

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Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License

(0:00) Intro

(1:47) About the podcast sponsor: The American College of Governance Counsel

(2:34) Start of interview 

(4:12) Laurie's origin story

(6:19) From Management Consulting (Accenture) to Product Innovation (Visa). "What they all had in common was that I got to start with a blank sheet of paper."

(8:52) Toward Venture Capital and Board Governance. From Sun Microsystems to Packet Design to investing.

(13:07) How she got interested in board governance. Her first board experience with Interactive Investor (cross-listed in US and UK)

(14:27) Joining Playground Global in 2019

(16:16) Tesla’s Day-Zero Board

(20:15) Zoox and Autonomous Ambition

(24:11) Boards Across Company Types: VC-backed companies and family businesses. Example of her time as board member at Bose.

(27:57) Lessons from Church and Dwight. The roles of M&A and marketing.

(30:37) Her co-authored paper on The Artificially Intelligent Boardroom (Stanford GSB) 

(35:30) Private Markets and Trillion-Dollar Valuations

(40:28) The role of private equity in this environment, and its distinctive board structure.

(42:55) Geopolitics and Supply Chains

(47:20) Cybersecurity Oversight in the AI Age

(50:45) Courage in the Boardroom. “As board members, we have to be courageous enough to ask the right questions at the right time, rather than sit back and hope everything will be okay.”

(52:22) Books that have greatly influenced her life:

(54:14) Her mentors:

(56:49) Quotes that she thinks of often or lives her life by. "It is easy enough to be pleasant, when life flows by like a song, but the man worth while is one who will smile, when everything goes dead wrong." Ella Wheeler Wilcox

(57:32) An unusual habit or an absurd thing that she loves. Dancing, after following research from Kelly McGonigal. Hummingbird feeders.

(59:39) The living person she most admires: her husband, Ben Lenail.

Laurie Yoler is a venture capital investor at Playground Global, former board member at Tesla and Zoox, and a director or advisor to more than 25 boards. She currently serves on the boards of Church & Dwight and the NACD Northern California Chapter.

You can follow Evan on social media at:

X: @evanepstein

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/ 

Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/

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To support this podcast you can join as a subscriber of the Boardroom Governance Newsletter at https://evanepstein.substack.com/

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Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License

(0:00) Intro

(1:34) About the podcast sponsor: The American College of Governance Counsel

(2:21) Start of interview 

(3:20) Marie's origin story

(5:19) Career Path in Law and Governance. Her time at HP and Agilent Technologies.

(7:50) Transition to eBay 

(9:57) Shareholder Activism and eBay's Story *CNBC clip with Ryan Cohen

(14:42) Governance Roles and Board Memberships

(16:50) Her teaching positions on the role of the General Counsel 

(18:57) Chair and Director Succession

(23:37) On separating Chair and CEO roles

(25:44) Governance in Private Companies

(30:40) The Impact of AI on Governance. She thinks of it in three buckets: 1) Customer/revenue opportunity; 2) from an enterprise wide standpoint; and 3) AI risks

(34:36) Questions board members should ask management regarding AI opportunities and challenges

(38:09) Energy Sector and AI *Marie serves on the board of Portland General Electric

(43:10) Geopolitical Challenges in Business *reference to Meta-Manus China breakup

(45:24) Building Trust in the Boardroom

(48:30) Books that have greatly influenced her life:

(50:32) Her mentors

(52:38) Quotes that she thinks of often or lives her life by.

(54:00) An unusual habit or an absurd thing that she loves.

(56:00) The living person she most admires: Lisa Su.

Marie Oh Huber has over 30 years of experience of strategic business, legal, regulatory and public policy experience in large global public technology companies, including eBay, Agilent Technologies, and HP. She currently serves on the board of Portland General Electric

You can follow Evan on social media at:

X: @evanepstein

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/ 

Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/

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To support this podcast you can join as a subscriber of the Boardroom Governance Newsletter at https://evanepstein.substack.com/

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Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License

(0:00) Intro

(1:24) About the podcast sponsor: The American College of Governance Counsel

(2:11) Start of interview *reference to the BRI from LCDA

(3:54) Eddie's origin story

(6:27) Eddie's investment focus 

(7:44) The rise of AI and its impact on him

(9:06) Eddie’s roles in investment over the past 35 years (as GP and LP).

(8:32) His current endeavors: 1) Board member in mutual funds (Calvert Funds); 2) Independent director and Chair elect of Global X Venture Fund; 3) Chief Strategy Officer at Leadview Capital; and 4) Advisor at Bullpen.ai

(19:38) Dealing with AI hallucinations (e.g. Sullivan & Cromwell example)

(23:13) Convergence of AI, ESG, and Governance: "It's dramatic"

(25:00) "Stocks will be tokenized, markets will be much more liquid." "Wall street is trying to put liquid claims on illiquid investments" *WSJ Nasdaq's Plan for 24/7 Tokenized Stock Trading

(31:20) Geopolitical Challenges in Investing and for Boards. *Example of Meta-Manus breakup. "We live in a selectively connected world."

(34:00) Politicization and social issues in corporations. Board Adaptation to Rapid Changes

(38:19) AI and Audit Committee Responsibilities

(40:30) Bridging the AI Knowledge Gap "Boards are under prepared." *References to Stanford GSB cases: Netflix Approach to Governance and the Artificially Intelligent Boardroom

(46:10) Changing Dynamics in Board Practices. "It's a matter of time before companies like SAP or Microsoft move into corporate auditing, or Amazon starts offering mutual funds. The incumbents just don't see it coming."

(47:10) Power Laws and Growth in Private Markets.

(50:31) Books that have greatly influenced his life:

(52:56) His mentors.

(53:56) Quotes that he thinks of often or lives her life by: "Prioritize by impact" "Recognize the good in everyone"

(55:10) An unusual habit or an absurd thing that he loves: obsession with curating music playlists.

(55:06) The living person he most admires: Bono and Bad Bunny.

Eddie Ramos is the Chief Strategy Officer for Leadview Capital. He is also currently on the board of Morgan Stanley’s Calvert Mutual Funds and Global X Venture Fund, serving as the Chairman of the Audit Committee for both.

You can follow Evan on social media at:

X: @evanepstein

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/epsteinevan/ 

Substack: https://evanepstein.substack.com/

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To support this podcast you can join as a subscriber of the Boardroom Governance Newsletter at https://evanepstein.substack.com/

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Music/Soundtrack (found via Free Music Archive): Seeing The Future by Dexter Britain is licensed under a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States License