Bob Enyart Live

 

Today Bob wraps up his commentary on the debate between Will Duffy and CJ Borns, "Is Open Theism Biblical?" Hear on today's show Duffy's closing statement which was one of the greatest closing statements in the history of debate. Then Bob goes through the six main misconceptions about time (which can be found at kgov.com/time). Misconception 6: Unchanging omniscience could tell time: Unchanging omniscience is a contradiction. Some knowledge cannot be held statically, including something as simple as the current date and time. Even if such a deity knew Earth's entire history moment by moment, He would have no way of knowing what time it is right now to us creatures, including what day it is, the month and year. The concept of divine static knowledge is defective. One can know the script of a stage show, but to know at what point the cast is at in a performance requires a different kind of knowledge that cannot even theoretically be held statically. It is a trivial matter for created human beings to know which act and scene a performance is at in a play, or what is the date. The absurdity though of atemporality is demonstrated in that such trivial information is unattainable for an unchanging omniscience. This realization enables theologians to build a list of things that our dynamic and free God can know but that an unchanging deity could never know. For example, if the classical description of God held by Calvinists and Arminians were true, that He has unchanging knowledge, here is a tiny list of the almost infinite things that such a God could not know: - How many hairs are on your head (right now, that is). - What time it is. What day it is. What month it is. - What year it is. What century it is. Whether it's AD or BC. - How long has it been since creation and since the flood. - How long has it been since the cross (or maybe the cross is yet future). - How long until the Second Coming. - How many people are in your family. - How many people have died and how many are still living on Earth. - How many miles on your car and how full your gas tank is. - Etc. (i.e., add a billion things unknowable to immutable knowledge). Today's Resource: Predestination & Free Will Seminar So much is at stake when people consider predestination and free will. Strong emotions often surface with a discussion of this topic. That passion points to our critical need to understand the truth regarding whether or not God has predetermined who will go to heaven and who will go to hell. Also, the question of whether or not God has planned out each person’s life affects us. Does God have a plan for your life? Does a blueprint exist for your future? Did God predetermine whether or not you would get married, and to whom? Did God plan whether you would be wealthy or poor, happy or sad? If God does plan your life, does He do so in minute detail or in general themes? If God has a plan for your life, are you able to alter that plan? This topic directly influences people concerning how they live their lives. As Christians, we must seek God to accurately portray the LORD to others. For any misrepresentation of God will dishonor Him and perhaps bring harm to those misled. You can now order the seminar video in a 3-DVD set or MP4 video download.

This week Fred and Doug welcome scientist and creation researcher Sal Cordova, a bio-molecular physics researcher. He has published with the Federation of American Societies for Experimental Biology, Springer/Nature, Oxford University Press, and Creation Research Society Quarterly. His Christian testimony, life story, and advocacy of Intelligent Design (ID) appeared in the journal Nature. He was featured on national TV, radio, magazines and in the 2008 motion picture "Expelled". He presently holds five degrees: an MS in Applied Physics from Johns Hopkins, a BS in Computer Science, BS Electrical Engineering with a minor in Music, BS in Mathematics with a minor in Physics, an unaccredited MS equivalent in Biology. Sal is presently preparing to enter a doctoral program in Engineering, and graduated Dulles Aviation flight school.  He was a senior engineer and scientist in the aerospace and defense industry at MITRE (Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Research and Engineering) and Army Night Vision Labs. He worked for Cornell genetic engineer John C. Sanford in areas of population genetics and protein biology.   Engineering Biology: 1/3 of engineers are graduating into careers in biology because the skill set fits the necessary analysis of God's amazing engineering.   Evolution Fairy Tale: See the website that helped Sal Cordova realize that the story of evolution was never even fit for children's story time.   Trading Genesis: Sal laments the state of Cristian Academia regarding creation and real science.   Survival of the Sickest? Find out how some of the greatest minds in medicine are left explaining that humanity needs disease.   Encode Ends Evolution: Hear Sal's insights on the ongoing destruction of evolutionary theory being wrought by the ENCODE project.   The Eye of the Beholder: Sal and Fred connect information science, engineering and genetic dots describing, (for example) the incredible design of the human eye.   Redefining Fitness: Hear how the publications of leading evolutionary biologists prove their uselessness to anything save further documenting the absurdity of their field.   Alu, Transcriptones, and the End of the Argument: While evolutionary biologists tend to view genetic hardware and data as junk, engineers see it for what it is - memory storage units and computer code!  

​Gospel of Mark: We Christians might assume that the Lord's favorite title for Himself, being God the Son, would be, the Son of God. Indeed, the Gospel of Mark begins by identifying Jesus in that way. However, five times more frequently, Mark uses Jesus own favorite title for Himself, the Son of Man. Throughout all of eternity past, He had always been the Son of God. However, to become the Son of Man, He would need to lower Himself. Indeed, the Lord lowered Himself in so many ways, as He would need to do even to have the evangelist Mark write this amazing account of His life, death and resurrection. The Gospel of Mark Bible study vol. 1 is available on MP3-CD, MP3 Download or in video in a 9-DVD Set. BEL SUBSCRIPTIONS: Please consider one of our monthly subscriptions that will not only help support BEL, but they also promote better understanding of the Bible and may equip you to more effectively reach those around you. NEW Monthly Downloads: Enjoy your monthly subscription is download form rather than on disc. Monthly Sermons: Enjoy all of Bob's sermons from the month on Sermon Video DVD, great also to watch with the family. Or, get these on Sermon Audio CDs which are standard audio Compact Discs that will play on any CD player including the one in your car. Or get them on a single Sermon MP3-CD which will play on an MP3 player, in a DVD player, or in your computer. Monthly Bible Studies: Enjoy the Scriptures with Bob's Monthly Bible Study DVDs, great too for a small group Bible study. Or get these teachings on a single Monthly Bible Study Audio MP3- CD which will play on an MP3 player, in a DVD player, or in your computer. Monthly Topical Videos: Coming to your mailbox, you'll get a Monthly Topical DVD to enjoy one of Bob's great videos specially selected to be entertaining and to teach about life from a biblical worldview. Monthly Best of Bob Shows: Every month our crew selects the eight best BEL shows of the month and for the folks who might have missed some of them, we mail them out on the Best of Bob MP3-CD. Monthly BEL TV Classics: Enjoy Bob Enyart's timeless, popular TV show delivered to your home on the Monthly BEL TV Classics DVDs with great audio and video clarity thanks to our state-of-the-art mastering from the studio-quality Sony beta tapes to DVD! Monthly Donation: For folks who just want to make sure that Bob Enyart Live stays on the air, please consider making a pledge in the form of a Monthly Donation.

Denver Bible Church sermon 20170806.

* Jesus: Fully God and fully man so fully free! Was Jesus able to sin? Of course. Otherwise, He could not be fully man, and He could not be tempted, and His righteousness would not be praiseworthy, and He could not love, because love must be freely given. But He became fully man, and He was tempted, and He is praiseworthy, and He does love. So, the answer is, yes. Bob continues broadcasting the cross examination of Will Duffy during the recent debate Is Open Theism Biblical, and notes that when a Calvinist challenges open theist testimony from Scripture by asking if it would contradict God being "impassible, impeccable, and immutable", one could hear district attorney Hamilton Burger objecting as he did in a 1960s courtroom drama, that this line of questioning was "incompetent, irrelevant, and immaterial." For not the "living God" but a stone idol is impassible, impeccable, and immutable. Also, consider that folks have a difficulty discerning between time and the measurement of time. So too many have difficulty comprehending the difference bewteen the future as a concept and a moment in the future. The concept of the future doesn't change but what may or may not happen in any particular moment in the future is open. So too with truth. The concept of truth doesn't change, whereas whether a particular statement is true or false (like, "breakfast is served") of course can change. Open theists though frequently encounter these kinds of easily avoided misconceptions. * Incompetent, irrelevant, and immaterial; impassible, impeccable, and immutable: When a Calvinist challenges open theist testimony from Scripture by asking if it would contradict God being "impassible, impeccable, and immutable", one could hear district attorney Hamilton Burger objecting as he did in a 1960s courtroom drama, that this line of questioning was "incompetent, irrelevant, and immaterial." For not the "living God" but a stone idol is impassible, impeccable, and immutable. * Clarifying Terms Future & Truth: Just as folks have a difficulty discerning between time and the measurement of time, so too many have difficulty comprehending the difference bewteen the future as a concept and a moment in the future. The concept of the future doesn't change but what may or may not happen in any particular moment in the future is open. So too with truth. The concept of truth doesn't change, whereas whether a particular statement is true or false (like, "breakfast is served") of course can change. Open theists though frequently encounter these kinds of easily avoided misconceptions.  Today's Resource: Open Theism Seminar Open theism seminar with Bob Enyart on three DVDs! (Filmed in Indianapolis) Another fantastic BEL seminar, this time, on the topic of Open Theism, answering the question, is the future settled or open? The Open View teaches that God can change the future. He interacts with the flow of history and changes the outcome of the future as it unfolds by His decisions and actions. https://youtu.be/458I3vak5iQ theme:dark color:red provider:youtube align:center] -- * Recovering the Personal God: A BEL goal over the last 28 years has been to recover the personal God. Personhood is not only the right to life of every unborn child because those kids are made in God's likeness, but primarily and through eternity past, God Himself is a personal God, the one God existing in three persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Yet classical theology has turned God into more of a quantitative mathematical equation. We broadcast in part to correct all that!

This week Fred and Doug welcome scientist and creation researcher Sal Cordova, a bio-molecular physics researcher. He has published with the Federation of American Societies for Experimental Biology, Springer/Nature, Oxford University Press, and Creation Research Society Quarterly. His Christian testimony, life story, and advocacy of Intelligent Design (ID) appeared in the journal Nature. He was featured on national TV, radio, magazines and in the 2008 motion picture "Expelled". He presently holds five degrees: an MS in Applied Physics from Johns Hopkins, a BS in Computer Science, BS Electrical Engineering with a minor in Music, BS in Mathematics with a minor in Physics, an unaccredited MS equivalent in Biology. Sal is presently preparing to enter a doctoral program in Engineering, and graduated Dulles Aviation flight school.  He was a senior engineer and scientist in the aerospace and defense industry at MITRE (Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Research and Engineering) and Army Night Vision Labs. He worked for Cornell genetic engineer John C. Sanford in areas of population genetics and protein biology.   Debatable Evolutionary Biology: Watch Sal Debate the lowest order of all "scientists", (and we're sure he's a fine and decent man, Dan, the  evolutionary biologist)!   Keeping Up with the Joneses: Hear the breaking news regarding the implosion of evolutionary theory because of gene loss, (from the world of population genetics)!   Pick Up a Fellow Worker's Book: Be sure to pick up a copy of John Sanford's ground breaking book "Genetic Entropy!."   High End Reading List: Pick up a copy, (or two!) of the $1,000.00 book for which William Basener, Salvador Cordova, Ola Hössjer, and John Sanford contributed the chapter: Dynamical Systems and Fitness Maximization in Evolutionary Biology!  

​Gospel of Mark: We Christians might assume that the Lord's favorite title for Himself, being God the Son, would be, the Son of God. Indeed, the Gospel of Mark begins by identifying Jesus in that way. However, five times more frequently, Mark uses Jesus own favorite title for Himself, the Son of Man. Throughout all of eternity past, He had always been the Son of God. However, to become the Son of Man, He would need to lower Himself. Indeed, the Lord lowered Himself in so many ways, as He would need to do even to have the evangelist Mark write this amazing account of His life, death and resurrection. The Gospel of Mark Bible study vol. 1 is available on MP3-CD, MP3 Download or in video in a 9-DVD Set. BEL SUBSCRIPTIONS: Please consider one of our monthly subscriptions that will not only help support BEL, but they also promote better understanding of the Bible and may equip you to more effectively reach those around you. NEW Monthly Downloads: Enjoy your monthly subscription is download form rather than on disc. Monthly Sermons: Enjoy all of Bob's sermons from the month on Sermon Video DVD, great also to watch with the family. Or, get these on Sermon Audio CDs which are standard audio Compact Discs that will play on any CD player including the one in your car. Or get them on a single Sermon MP3-CD which will play on an MP3 player, in a DVD player, or in your computer. Monthly Bible Studies: Enjoy the Scriptures with Bob's Monthly Bible Study DVDs, great too for a small group Bible study. Or get these teachings on a single Monthly Bible Study Audio MP3- CD which will play on an MP3 player, in a DVD player, or in your computer. Monthly Topical Videos: Coming to your mailbox, you'll get a Monthly Topical DVD to enjoy one of Bob's great videos specially selected to be entertaining and to teach about life from a biblical worldview. Monthly Best of Bob Shows: Every month our crew selects the eight best BEL shows of the month and for the folks who might have missed some of them, we mail them out on the Best of Bob MP3-CD. Monthly BEL TV Classics: Enjoy Bob Enyart's timeless, popular TV show delivered to your home on the Monthly BEL TV Classics DVDs with great audio and video clarity thanks to our state-of-the-art mastering from the studio-quality Sony beta tapes to DVD! Monthly Donation: For folks who just want to make sure that Bob Enyart Live stays on the air, please consider making a pledge in the form of a Monthly Donation.

* Bob Enyart's Life's Work - The Plot: All stories have a plot. The main story line in a narrative forms the plot. Millions of books, including historical texts, cannot be understood apart from recognizing the plot, getting to know the characters, and learning the setting. The setting refers to the backdrop for the action, when and where, in time and space, the action occurs. Does the Bible have a plot? * Read, Listen, or Share with Kids: You can: - read Bob's best-selling book The Plot or download it as a PDF - listen to the Plot Seminar  via instant download or on MP3 CD - listen to the entire set of all five of Bob's Plot Bible Study Albums, or - share The Plot Boys with Bible students of all ages! - check out Chapter 1 of The Plot online. You'll love this powerful teaching through Scripture as you see that the overview of the Bible really is the only valid key to its details! And of course, by purchasing any of these Bible resources, you'll be supporting our online and broadcast outreach for another year! * Learning from the Plot: Most Bible students readily agree with this basic plot of the Bible.  Yet within the structure of this plot lies the key to understanding almost all of the major disputes that divide Christians. * Stories Often Deliver Morals: "The moral of the story is," ends many anecdotes.  A typical morality tale attempts to teach a good lesson, but the story itself is fictitious.  The Bible presents its message through the vehicle of a true story (although it does of course contain parables).  To understand the moral of a story, one must understand the story itself.  Misunderstanding the story by missing the plot or a vital plot twist makes it difficult to ascertain the moral of the story.  How can someone see all the details in a murky big picture? God informs men that His Word has a plot, and that plot twists possibly may occur.  Thus Bible students must remain alert when reading the Bible for the major steps of the plot and the plot twists. Ignoring the Plot: Ten big doctrinal debates divide millions of believers.  Attempting to resolve all ten questions by traditional means is a daunting task.  Is there one root cause for all ten disagreements?  Does a common theological thread tie these ten seemingly unrelated doctrines together? If all ten disputes derive from one fundamental cause, might there then be a single solution to these questions?  Imagine resolving all ten disputes with one simple biblical fact found in one single verse based on the overall plot of the Bible.  If such a fact exists which alone could solve all ten disputes, imagine how crucial that Bible idea would be.  However, ignoring the Bible's big picture consigns these disputes to irreconcilable differences. A young political observer once wondered why American conservatives and liberals separated themselves so distinctly along opposing ideas.  Consider these generalities: Left-Wingers Right-Wingers Support welfare Oppose welfare Support foreign aid Oppose foreign aid Support high taxes Oppose high taxes Support giving children condoms Oppose giving children condoms Support pornographers Oppose pornographers Support killing unborn children Oppose killing unborn children Oppose killing murderers Support killing murderers Oppose gun ownership Support gun ownership Weaken America's military Strengthen America's military Worship trees Cut down trees (a renewable resource) Chart the views of liberals like Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, and Al Gore.  They, along with most liberal leaders, agree with the column on the left.  Conservative leaders like Alan Keyes tend to concur with the issues on the right.  The respective supporters of these two camps tend to hold their party line.  For example, of these ten issues, millions of liberals will hold to most issues of the left and millions of conservatives will stand for most issues on the right.  But why?  Why do people line up along such well-defined battle lines?  Why is there not an equal number who agree with five issues on the right and five on the left?  Why do most leaders who support killing an innocent unborn child oppose killing a guilty murdering rapist?  Why does almost everyone who supports welfare also defend a right to exploit women sexually through pornography? If these disagreements arose randomly in a disconnected fashion, then no pattern of adherents would likely exist.  A line of demarcation appears, however, because these issues do not arbitrarily arise, but result from society acting out underlying principles.  Once a man commits to certain fundamental precepts, then experienced observers can guess many of his future political preferences.  Some defend the existence of absolute truth.  Others reject the notion of absolute right and wrong and put their hope in relative morality.  The Ten Commandments become ten suggestions, if that.  The world calls these relativists left-wingers.  The defenders of absolutes believe that truth descends from God.  The world calls us right-wingers. This political observation makes a good analogy.  Patterns of disagreement can reveal much about underlying presuppositions.  Different foundational ideas then lead to various, though related, disputes.  Likewise, exploring ten major doctrinal disputes can reveal an incredible biblical pattern.  The Plot traces the origins of these debates to the first century Christian leaders.  Then the Apostle Paul's handling of early doctrinal disagreements provides the guidance to resolve today's debates.  The Epistles become the compass, the whole Word of God the map, to traverse the terrain of human existence. God does not have doctrinal difficulties.  Why?  As the author, He knows the meaning of Bible passages.  God does not have "problem texts."  Therefore, when God opens eyes to solve doctrinal disputes, "problem texts" disappear for men also.  Thus the doctrinal answer offered in this book turns problem texts into "proof texts!"  Readers will see that the opposing sets of Bible verses often used in traditional doctrinal debate will all support true theology. Get the Big Picture At the outset of taking an awesome biblical journey in The Plot, realize the goal is to grasp the Bible's big picture. The successful student masters the wider context of debated issues. The meaning of a word depends partly on its context within the sentence; the meaning of the sentence depends partly on its context with the paragraph; the meaning of the paragraph on the chapter; the chapter on the book; and the proper understanding of even the book depends on its position within the context of the Bible. Those who understand the big picture avoid getting lost in the details. Now the fun begins.  Brace yourself for excitement, but proceed with maximum alertness! The Challenge for The Plot The primary biblical details this book attempts to clear up include the following ten doctrinal debates: Some Believe Others Believe Believers can lose their salvation Believers cannot lose their salvation Baptism is necessary Baptism is not necessary Believers speak in tongues Believers do not speak in tongues God will answer prayers of faith Many good prayers go unanswered Miracles and healing are assured Miracles and healing are not assured There is no pre-tribulation rapture The rapture is before the tribulation Believers must keep the law Believers are not under the law Salvation by faith requires works Salvation requires faith and not works Believers must keep the Sabbath Sabbath observance is unnecessary Unclean foods are prohibited All foods are clean More than anything, this author wants to thoroughly communicate the overall plot of the Bible to each reader.  As a secondary effect of having a solid understanding of the big picture of any book, the reader then has a much easier task grasping the details of that book.  Knowing the plot helps identify the twists.  Knowing the twists helps explain a myriad of details. A Daunting Task To resolve these ten disputes, someone could prepare ten arguments, one for each issue.  All pros and cons must be evaluated for each issue.  The student analyzes only a few dozen Scriptures for certain disputes; for others, he analyzes hundreds.  A number of scholarly books defend each opposing doctrine.  Limiting the effort to only two authors advocating each position requires reading forty books that mostly contradict one another.  Many students consume years in this effort.  In the end, the student sides with one position or the other, for each dispute, weighing countless factors. Regardless of the student's conclusions, millions of believers will disagree with him.  The masses of Christians cannot be right on these doctrines, because the masses disagree with one another.  Even after such a colossal effort, how many of these ten doctrinal questions would the average reader get right? A Single, Simple Solution Imagine, for the moment, that someone could resolve all ten questions simply by learning one single Bible verse.  Is it possible that one single concept, one idea, one thought, revealed in a single Bible verse, could resolve every debate listed above?  This book presents just such a verse for the reader's consideration. Some will think it impossible for one Bible fact to answer all these dilemmas.  If, however, someone asked God to unravel these mysteries, could He do so in a single statement?  If He could, then perhaps His Word does also.  If God could not, then the author should stop writing this book.  The Plot of the Bible argues, though, that God could, and that He has, proclaimed the answer to these ten debates in a single verse. Consider any discipline-criminal law, physics, Shakespeare.  Imagine that within that field of study ten apparently unrelated debates rage.  Imagine that one discovery or one observation or one perspective, when applied to these disagreements, had the ability to resolve, neatly and completely, each and every dilemma.  The fact that one simple idea can address ten different quandaries inherently gives that idea credibility and makes it worthy of full examination. For example, a good law well enforced will bring about unimagined benefits in countless circumstances.  Whereas a bad law, though designed to address a specific problem, actually creates more problems than it supposedly solves.  Historically, a law against adultery reduced infidelity and divorce as expected.  But it also lowered rates for murder, rape, kidnapping, and child abuse; this law can even improve the economy thereby raising the standard of living. When one simple biblical idea resolves many seemingly unrelated troubles, that idea merits great attention.  Similarly, if someone invents a Bible "answer," that idea will likely create more problems than it supposedly solves.  Thus the Christians who argue that men have a "right to fornicate" help to unleash a tidal wave of destruction.  If, however, one concept helps effortlessly to avoid numerous problems, the concept may very well be valid. No Problem Texts! A typical doctrinal argument emphasizes certain biblical passages (its proof texts) while de-emphasizing other passages (its problem texts).  This very approach makes many students uncomfortable because they want to embrace the whole word of God.  Ignoring or diminishing certain texts that appear to contradict a conclusion unsettles them and rightly so. Any number of arguments can be presented for or against the ten doctrinal disputes listed above.  These arguments traditionally pit one set of Bible verses against another.  Someone trying to prove that a believer cannot lose his salvation will cite certain proof texts (i.e., Eph. 4:30; Phil. 1:6) and dispute other problem texts (i.e., Heb. 6:4-6; 2 Pet. 2:20-22).  Those who argue that a believer can lose his salvation swap the passages, so that they heartily endorse their proof texts (i.e., Heb. 6:4-6; 2 Pet. 2:20-22), while contending with their problem texts (i.e., Eph. 4:30; Phil. 1:6). What if God has presented one biblical key that would not only answer all the confusion, but would also erase the tension between the traditional proof and problem texts?  The student would then see both sets of proof and problem texts merge into a single grouping of proof texts. Christians expect exactly this in heaven.  Once in heaven "I shall know just as I also am known" (1 Cor. 13:12) by God, without confusion.  Heaven admits no "problem verses."  God's Word will exist in heaven (Mat. 24:35) open, honest, simple to understand and true at face value. The solution to these ten doctrinal debates does not require diminishing or obfuscating, explaining away or twisting scores of problem verses.  The solution lies in understanding the big picture of the Bible.  Those well versed on the biblical plot and the plot twists can read Bible passages and accept them for just what they appear to say without harboring a sense of internal conflict.  The Bible is the Word of God.  The Bible makes sense and does not contradict itself. Today's Resource: Learn the key to the plot twist in Bob Enyart's best-selling book, The Plot! Or, you can listen to his seminars on The Plot and The Tree! Or get the entire set of all five of Bob's Plot Bible Study Albums or check out The Plot Boys for Bible students of all ages! You'll love this powerful teaching through Scripture as you see that the overview of the Bible really is the only valid key to its details! * Historical Notes on the Pre-Tribulation Rapture: Chapter 11 of The Plot includes a response to the widespread claim that pre-tribulation rapture teaching began with the Plymouth Brethren and John Darby (d. 1882). That chapter references this webpage, as kgov.com/pre-trib, for more information. In the past, many Christians who wrote of the tribulation saw it as a three and a half year period. (The Plot observes that Jesus mentioned that the Tribulation may be "shortened" and that Peter called for the "hastening" of the coming of the Lord. Thus it is correct that the coming tribulation may be less than a full seven years. The text also shows that the Twelve Apostles saw, correctly, that Joel's end-times prophecy began its fulfillment at Christ's ascension. Therefore they, also correctly, expected His soon return. However, one year after the resurrection Luke 13:6-9, God temporarily cut off Israel Romans 11:11-15, 19-20, 23-26, when He grafted in the Body of Christ. So while the Great Tribulation will likely be longer than the three and a half years held by many generations of Christians, as Jesus said, those days can be "shortened", so we can expect the Tribulation to be less than a full seven years.) On what we today call the pre-tribulation rapture, Morgan Edwards, a graduate of Bristol Baptist College, prominent religion historian, Baptist pastor, and a founder of Brown University, wrote in 1788: The distance between the first and second resurrection will be somewhat more than a thousand years. I say, somewhat more—, because the dead saints will be raised, and the living changed at Christ's "appearing in the air" (I Thes. iv. 17); and this will be about three years and a half before the millennium, as we shall see hereafter: but will he and they abide in the air all that time? No: they will ascend to paradise, or to some one of those many "mansions in the father's house" (John xiv. 2), and disappear during the foresaid period of time. The design of this retreat and disappearing will be to judge the risen and changed saints; for "now the time is come that judgment must begin," and that will be "at the house of God" (I Pet. iv. 17)."   For other instances of the teaching of the pre-tribulation rapture in history, for example, including from 1300 A.D. and 400 A.D., please see chapter 11 of my book The Plot. Here's an excerpt... Belief in a specifically pre-tribulation rapture can be traced back in various ways, including to more almost 400 years before Bunyan in Italy, and more than a thousand years before him in what today is Turkey on the Syrian border. In northern Italy a treatise on the Apostolic Brethren says that their followers, "would be transferred into Paradise, in which are Enoch and Elijah… preserved unharmed from the persecution of the Antichrist… then Enoch and Elijah themselves would descend on the earth… would be killed… and thus Antichrist would reign for a long time", after which Christ returns to the earth with His saints. Further, a Latin manuscript of the sixth century exists which some scholars believe can be traced back to a prominent Syrian church father, the prolific Ephraem of Nisibis (306‑373 AD). A passage from a sermon on prophecy and the antichrist translates into English as: "For all the saints and Elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins." For more, see online A History of Pre-Darby Rapture Advocates by Dr. Thomas Ice. * More On Baptism: Sadly, a ritual that takes perhaps five minutes out of an 80-year life has divided Christ's followers on many lines and into often strongly opposed camps splitting churches and helping to divide tens of millions of believers into opposing Baptist, Adventist, Episcopalian, Lutheran, Methodist, Orthodox, and Presbyterian denominations. Believers disagree over: - the mode / method – sprinkling, pouring, immersion, partial immersion  - the candidate / qualification – none or conversion (believers) - the age – infant, child, or adult - the agent – a lay person, minister, or the Holy Spirit - the formulation – in Christ's name alone or that of the Trinity - the nature – symbolic, moral, or spiritual - the reason – the remission of sin, obedience, a symbol, or church membership - the effect – obedience, identification, or salvation Yet with foresight the Holy Spirit inspired the greatest evangelist in history to write "I thank God that I baptized none of you" except for a very few, as the Apostle Paul explained that, "Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel" (1 Cor. 1:14-17). From that godly perspective, the church has descended into extreme disagreements, teachings, and practices...    Check also: Grant Jeffrey, When the Trumpet Sounds, p. 108, references this Ephraem quote, from Ephraem or Psuedo Ephraem's "On the Last Times, the Anti-Christ and the End of the World." Circa A.D. 373

* Straight Hillary: Actually, it's the etcetera that covers most of today's program. We begin with Hillary Clinton's announcement on the Howard Stern show that she is NOT a lesbian. Really. "Raise your right hand," as the pervert host said to her. But then we move on to airing something of eternal significance. * Duffy, Debate, and Recovering the Personal God: A BEL goal over the last 28 years has been to recover the personal God. Personhood is not only the right to life of every unborn child because those kids are made in God's likeness, but primarily and through eternity past, God Himself is a personal God, the one God existing in three persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Yet classical theology has turned God into more of a quantitative mathematical equation. Toward correcting all that, Bob continues broadcasting Will Duffy's recent debate Is Open Theism Biblical? as our friend is being cross examined by a newcomer to the issue. TOL Is dead - long live TOL! It's humbling to announce that TheologyOnline.com, which has always been a "sister site" to KGOV, has now been transferred to BEL by our dear friend Eric Guttormson. Find my welcome post there and then scroll up for Eric's parting thread! "It was the best of times, it was..." Today's Resource: Open Theism Seminar Open theism seminar with Bob Enyart on three DVDs! (Filmed in Indianapolis) Another fantastic BEL seminar, this time, on the topic of Open Theism, answering the question, is the future settled or open? The Open View teaches that God can change the future. He interacts with the flow of history and changes the outcome of the future as it unfolds by His decisions and actions.