Bold Calling

Featuring Kevin Nguyen & Brayton Riley
Host: Adam Sockel | Presented by Orum

In this episode of Bold Calling, we're joined by two standout Orumites who've made the leap from SDRs to sales leaders: Kevin Nguyen, now an AE, and Brayton Riley, now a Team Lead. Host Adam Sockel guides a candid and insightful conversation about their career progression, leadership philosophies, and the lessons they've learned along the way.

If you've ever wondered what it takes to rise in sales, lead your peers, or just show up better every day—this one's for you.

• Kevin's path from Orum customer to SDR of the Year and now AE

• Brayton's pivot from teaching to sales, and how she leaned on mentorship and mindset to scale

• Why neither originally planned to become leaders—and how they grew into the role

• The mental shift from focusing on individual goals to team-wide success

• The challenges (and rewards) of leading former peers

• How to maintain energy and fill your cup in a high-performance sales culture

• The impact of community, like Alluvians, on personal growth

• Tactical time management and daily routines that keep top performers sharp

• Advice they'd give to new team leads and SDRs today

"I may be your lead now, but I'm your friend first. I'll take off the lead hat anytime you need." — Kevin Nguyen

"You were put in this position for a reason. Step into what you're great at and own it." — Brayton Riley

"There's no right way to lead. The best thing you can do is be the kind of leader you needed when you were starting out." — Kevin Nguyen

"Sometimes a single Slack message can change someone's whole day." — Brayton Riley

00:00 – Intro
01:20 – Kevin's story: from SDR to AE
02:35 – Brayton's transition from teaching to sales
04:00 – Did they set out to become leaders?
08:45 – The emotional transition from rep to team lead
12:30 – How energy and attitude impact team culture
14:00 – Finding ways to refill your cup
16:20 – Leadership advice that sticks: fail forward, ask for feedback
18:50 – The power of abundance mindset
19:30 – Structuring your time as an AE or team lead
24:00 – Helping the whole team win
27:30 – Leading former peers with empathy
30:00 – What they wish they knew when they first became leaders
33:00 – Wrap-up and gratitude

Enjoyed the episode? Don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review Bold Calling on your favorite podcast platform. Share it with your team or anyone looking to level up in sales.

🎧 Available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and everywhere you listen.

An award-winning podcast presented by Orum

In this episode of Bold Calling, host Adam Sockel sits down with Colin Specter, SVP of Revenue at Orum, to talk about sales enablement that actually works—without the usual eye rolls from sales reps.

They dive into how sales and marketing can align, how to create content that gets used, and the best ways to drive accountability in a fast-paced sales organization. Along the way, Adam and Colin swap stories, challenge assumptions, and share real-world strategies that any sales and marketing team can implement today.

"Marketing can't say yes to everything, just like product teams can't build every feature request. It's about business impact—how many customers will benefit, and what's the revenue impact?" – Colin Specter

"Every time you say yes to something, you're saying no to something else. Prioritization is key." – Adam Sockel

"Reps love reducing uncertainty. The best way to get adoption? Find a pilot rep who others respect. If they use it and win with it, others will follow." – Colin Specter

"I'm a people pleaser—I always want to say yes. But before I do, I go to another team and ask, 'Would this actually help you, too?' Because if it's just a one-off, it's probably not the best use of time." – Adam Sockel

"Salespeople don't want to learn about product releases at the same time as customers. Marketing needs to be ahead of the curve, ready with assets before a launch." – Colin Specter

"We don't want to be learning about product updates in real-time with sales. If that happens, we're already in trouble." – Adam Sockel

"Repetition is the mother of learning. As a sales leader, your job is to over-communicate. If people aren't rolling their eyes at how often they hear a message, you're not saying it enough." – Colin Specter

"I can hype up content all I want, but if I don't have buy-in from sales, it's just another link in Slack that gets ignored." – Adam Sockel

"Sales leaders set the tone—if your team sees you posting and amplifying content, they'll follow. But don't assume they will naturally rise to the occasion—train them on what good looks like." – Colin Specter

"Attitude reflects leadership. If sales sees me hyping up content, they're more likely to use it. But if I just drop a link in Slack and disappear, it's getting buried under 100 messages." – Adam Sockel

✅ Start with a listening tour – Talk to your top reps and sales leaders to identify patterns in what's needed.
✅ Prioritize by impact – Assess the revenue and adoption potential before investing in new assets.
✅ Use a pilot approach – Get buy-in from respected reps before rolling things out at scale.
✅ Create a structured request process – Leverage Slack workflows or structured intake forms to gather details.
✅ Over-communicate – Ensure that both sales and marketing teams know where content lives and how to use it.
✅ Align marketing with product sprints – Ensure that content is ready before major feature releases.

In this episode of Bold Calling, host Adam Sockel is joined by Arely Brattin, SDR Manager at Orum, and John Karsant, Founder & CEO of Level Up Leads, to dive deep into the art and science of SDR management. They discuss the most effective strategies for onboarding, training, measuring success, and retaining top SDR talent—plus the evolving role of AI and the shift toward revenue-focused performance metrics.

• John's Approach: SDRs at Level Up Leads start on internal calls before reaching out to clients, ensuring they ramp up in a controlled environment.
• Arely's Method: Identifying learning styles is key—whether reps prefer shadowing, classroom-style learning, or hands-on coaching. Pairing new SDRs with top performers helps them build confidence quickly.

• Activity vs. Revenue Metrics:
  • Quality over quantity—fewer dials, but better targeted outreach.
  • No-show rates and objection-handling improvements are now key performance indicators.

• John's Strategy: Reduce friction for reps—handle list building and client conversations so SDRs can focus on dialing and selling.
• Arely's Strategy:
  • Recognition and validation go a long way—"The SDR role can be thankless, so just saying 'I appreciate you' matters."
  • Compensation matters—competitive pay and incentives keep reps motivated.
  • Create a collaborative yet competitive culture where reps push each other to improve.

• How AI is Used:
  • AI tools assist with call analysis, coaching, and script refinement.
• Human Touch Still Wins:
  • AI helps with efficiency, but real conversations convert at a much higher rate than email or automation.
  • "If I know it's AI emailing me, I can ignore it. If a person calls me, I feel bad not answering."

• Groundswell Approach:
  • Instead of cold calling a VP of Sales right away, SDRs should start lower in the org (fellow SDRs, team leads) and work their way up.
  • Coordinating with AEs to multi-thread an account increases success rates.

• John: The decline of email as an effective channel has led to a resurgence in cold calling as a primary outreach method.
• Arely: Social selling (via LinkedIn and other platforms) is on the rise, but phones remain the best channel for high-converting conversations.
• Biggest Shift: Buyers expect a more personalized experience, so SDRs need to do their homework and build genuine relationships.

• Connect with Arely Brattin: LinkedIn
• Connect with John Karsant: LinkedIn
• Learn more about Level Up Leads: Website
• Explore Orum's SDR Enablement Tools: Orum.com

In this episode of Bold Calling, host Adam Sockel is joined by two industry heavyweights—Daisy Chung from Orum and Ernest Owusu from 6sense—to break down why context matters in cold calling. They share insights on using intent data, personalization, and AI-driven automation to drive better conversations and higher conversion rates.

🚀 Key takeaway: Buyers today expect more thoughtful, informed outreach, and sellers who call with context are the ones winning meetings.

✅ Does context actually matter in cold calls? Ernest and Daisy debate the balance between preparation and execution.
✅ The difference between intent data and personalization—and how to use both effectively.
✅ How much pre-call research is too much? Finding the sweet spot between readiness and action.
✅ How AI and automation are reshaping sales prospecting—without removing the human touch.
✅ The importance of tonality and timing to build rapport fast.

🗣 Ernest Owusu on context vs. no context in calls:
"Having context allows you to break down barriers, personalize your outreach, and engage prospects differently. But you can still be a phenomenal cold caller without it—it's all about how you use the time you have."

🗣 Daisy Chung on making context exciting:
"It's not just about knowing where someone went to school or where they work. It's about how you frame that context to make it engaging and relevant."

🗣 Daisy on AI and automation in sales:
"AI isn't replacing reps; it's removing manual work so sellers can focus on having more meaningful conversations."

🗣 Ernest on building the right call lists:
"You don't need to over-research—just know your persona, their challenges, and what's happening in their industry. That's enough context to open a valuable conversation."

🔗 Connect with our guests:

• Daisy Chung on LinkedIn
• Ernest Owusu on LinkedIn

🔗 Mentioned in this episode:

• Orum – The Top Dialer for Sales Teams
• 6sense – AI-Powered Sales Intelligence
• 6sense + Orum Playbook: AI-Driven Calling Strategies

Don't miss an episode! Subscribe to Bold Calling on:
🎙 Spotify | 🎙 Apple Podcasts | 🎙 Google Podcasts | 🎙 YouTube

Liked this episode? Leave us a review and share it with your sales team! 🚀

In this episode of Bold Calling, Adam Sockel sits down with Allie Brotherton, Senior Sales Manager at Orum, and Nick Cegelski, co-host of 30 Minutes to President's Club and co-author of Cold Calling Sucks and That's Why It Works. Together, they dive into the increasingly critical topic of self-sourcing for account executives. From actionable tips to thoughtful strategies, this episode is a masterclass for any AE looking to take control of their pipeline.

What You'll Learn in This Episode:

• Why self-sourcing is no longer optional for AEs in today's sales landscape.
• The importance of funnel math and setting realistic self-sourcing goals.
• The power of cold calling and how it complements email and LinkedIn outreach.
• How to use time blocking to supercharge your prospecting productivity.
• Practical advice on building referral pipelines that actually work.
• The value of preparing personalized small talk to build rapport with prospects.
• Tips for maintaining strong professional relationships over time.

Key Quotes:

• Nick Cegelski: "Your success in sales is determined by the number of uncomfortable conversations you're willing to have."
• Allie Brotherton: "Get focused on finding the right types of accounts. Don't cast a wide net—target the ones with the highest likelihood to close."
• Nick Cegelski: "Referrals are an amazing way to generate new business if you treat them like another outbound channel."
• Allie Brotherton: "The best sellers have a plan for everything. They don't wing it; they prepare and stay diligent."

Actionable Takeaways:

1. Cold Calling Best Practices:

   • Treat it like a workout: Focus on one intense block rather than spreading calls throughout the day.
   • Use prime morning hours for calls and reserve afternoons for prospect list building.
   • Stay consistent, even on challenging days—discipline is key.

2. Referral Strategies:

   • Be intentional: Prepare a tailored reason and draft a ghostwritten message for your champions to send.
   • Regularly revisit closed-won opportunities and your champions' networks for warm leads.
   • Treat referrals as a recurring prospecting channel with time blocked for this specific task.

3. Time Management for AEs:

   • Block time for both preparation and execution, keeping them separate.
   • Swallow the frog: Start your day with the task you like least to free up mental space for other priorities.
   • Be flexible: If the day gets disrupted, make up for lost prospecting time.

Resources Mentioned:

• Cold Calling Sucks and That's Why It Works by Nick Cegelski and Armand Farrokh
• 30 Minutes to President's Club Podcast
• Connect with Allie Brotherton on LinkedIn
• Connect with Nick Cegelski on LinkedIn

This episode is a treasure trove of advice for AEs navigating self-sourcing. Whether you're building lists, crafting cold calls, or asking for referrals, success comes down to preparation, consistency, and embracing discomfort. Tune in now to level up your sales game!

Welcome to the latest episode of Bold Calling, Orum's award-winning podcast. Today, we're explore modern demand generation and the art of nurturing leads effectively with two demand generation leaders: Sarah Reece, Head of DemandGen at Orum, and Chris Miller, Head of DemandGen at Warmly.

1. Redefining Nurturing

• Sarah's hot take: "Nurturing used to mean dumping low-quality leads into email workflows. Today, it's about resonating with your ICP and partnering with sales."

• Chris's perspective: "Nurturing is a continuation of the brand experience. It's about trust-building at every stage."

2. Why Nurturing Matters

• Marketing's role doesn't end at MQL—it's about maintaining influence throughout the buyer's journey.

• The importance of "above the funnel" nurturing: 93-95% of your audience isn't in-market at any given time.

3. Effective Nurturing Channels

• Sarah: "Your brand channels—podcasts, blogs, webinars—are the most effective tools for creating trust."

• Chris: "Nurturing is context-dependent. Tailor your approach to the prospect's journey."

4. Aligning Sales and Marketing

• The importance of collaboration: "Focus on the needs of the prospect, not departmental goals," says Chris.

• Sarah's approach: Let sales take the lead in nurture touchpoints to make engagement more personal.

5. Quick Wins for Better Nurturing

• Simplify: "Do less," advises Chris. Overcomplicated workflows often lead to poor outcomes.

• Personalize: Sarah suggests shifting from automated marketing emails to personalized sales outreach.

• Use the phone: Real conversations build trust and gather valuable insights.

• "Good nurturing is just good marketing. Marketing's job isn't done at MQL or awareness." – Chris Miller

• "Once we know who a prospect is, we should treat them like we know them." – Sarah Reece

• "93-95% of your audience isn't in-market. Surround them with messaging for when their moment of need arises." – Sarah Reece

• Warmly – A platform for full-funnel orchestration.

• Orum – The leading sales dialer for efficient and effective outbound calling.

• Sarah Reece on LinkedIn

• Chris Miller on LinkedIn

Share it with your network and subscribe to Bold Calling for more insights into sales, marketing, and demand generation.

On this week's episode of the award winning Bold Calling podcast, host Adam Sockel sits down with Kevin Hopp, founder of Hopp Consulting Group and CEO of Calling Culture, to discuss why cold calling remains a powerful tool in a world obsessed with automation and AI.

Kevin shares his candid insights on the current state of sales development, debunking the myth that cold calling is a thing of the past. They delve into the nuances of outbound strategies, the role of AI in sales, and why businesses need to embrace a calling-first mindset for real human connection.

• Cold Calling Renaissance: Despite AI and automation trends, Kevin argues that cold calling remains irreplaceable for genuine, high-value conversations.
• Smaller Budgets, Smarter Strategies: As outbound budgets shrink, teams are optimizing their approach by focusing on impactful cold calling over bulk outreach methods.
• Efficient Pre-call Research: Kevin believes most reps over-prepare, wasting hours on unnecessary details. The key? Know the core business problem and solution.
• Data-Driven Insights: Capturing and leveraging call outcomes—beyond just booked meetings—is essential for informing CRM strategies and account-based marketing.
• Future of Sales Development: While AI tools may evolve, they're not replacing the human element anytime soon. Sales is still about people selling to people.

• "Cold calling ain't dead. The more confusing outbound gets, the more valuable a straightforward phone call becomes." — Kevin Hopp
• "Reps need way less research than they think. Focus on the business problem and solution—it's all that matters."
• "The tools are getting smarter, but the human connection of a live conversation on the phone can't be replaced."

If you're navigating the ever-changing landscape of sales development or wondering how AI will shape outbound, this episode is packed with actionable advice. Kevin Hopp's expertise is a must-hear for SDRs, managers, and sales leaders who want to embrace smarter, human-centered strategies.

• Hopp Consulting Group
• Kevin's TikTok-style sales tips on LinkedIn

• Host: Adam Sockel on LinkedIn
• Guest: Kevin Hopp on LinkedIn
• Presented by Orum, the #1 dialer for sales teams in 2025!

Love the episode? Share it with your team and leave us a review! Want to dive deeper into sales development insights? Subscribe to Bold Calling for more conversations that matter.

In this episode of Bold Calling, Adam sits down with Michael Maximoff, founder of Belkins, to explore the evolving world of sales development and how SDR roles are shifting amidst advancements in AI, automation, and omnichannel strategies. They dive into Orum's 2024 State of Sales Development Report findings, touching on the increased demand for SDRs, shifts in sales pipeline responsibilities, and the critical alignment of sales and marketing functions.

Key Topics Discussed:

1. The Changing SDR Role
   • Michael shares insights on how SDRs are becoming growth specialists who strategically build omnichannel outreach strategies rather than relying solely on single channels.
   • SDR roles are evolving into "GTM growth specialists," responsible for managing multiple channels to nurture leads more effectively.
2. Omnichannel Outreach vs. Multichannel Marketing
   • Michael distinguishes between true omnichannel strategies and basic multichannel outreach, emphasizing the importance of seamless, personalized customer journeys that guide prospects from awareness to conversion.
3. The Power of the Phone in SDR Outreach
   • According to Orum's report, 85% of sales leaders view phone calls as essential for building pipeline, with 70% saying over half of their pipeline results from calls. Michael adds that phone outreach works best when it's the third or fourth touchpoint after establishing prior contact through other channels.
4. Balancing AI and Human-Centric Sales Strategies
   • Despite the rise of AI, Michael argues that human-led sales strategies are more impactful, particularly for creating long-term customer relationships. He predicts a growing divide between companies that use AI for efficiency and those prioritizing genuine customer connections.
5. Optimizing SDR Teams and Specialization
   • Michael explains Belkins' team structure, which includes lead researchers and SDRs working in tandem to ensure high-quality outreach. By specializing roles, Belkins maximizes efficiency and effectiveness, allowing SDRs to focus on engaging leads without being bogged down by list-building.
6. The Future of Sales Development
   • Michael forecasts that SDRs will increasingly contribute to strategy development alongside traditional outreach. The demand for nuanced, high-impact touchpoints will only increase as companies navigate growing volumes of outreach driven by automation.

Key Quotes:

• On Omnichannel Outreach:
  "Omnichannel isn't just using multiple channels; it's an integrated, step-by-step approach where each touch builds on the previous engagement, creating a seamless customer experience."
• On the Role of the Phone:
  "The phone is incredibly effective, but it shouldn't be the first touchpoint. Using it as a third or fifth touchpoint after nurturing leads through other channels makes conversion rates three to five times higher."
• On the Importance of Human Sales:
  "With AI, we're seeing a rise in volume over quality. Brands that build real relationships with prospects and foster strong teams will ultimately stand out in a market flooded with automated outreach."

Connect with Michael Maximoff:

• LinkedIn: Michael Maximoff
• Podcast: Belkins Podcast on YouTube
• Email: [email protected]

In this episode of Bold Calling, Adam Sockel sits down with Troy Barter, Head of Revenue at Rocket Shipping, to dive into the nitty-gritty of sales development. Troy brings his extensive sales experience, from door-to-door hustle to tech sales strategy, to offer hard-hitting insights on the evolution of the SDR role, the power of resilience, and the real impact of sales development.

Key Highlights:

• The Value of Perspective in Sales Development: Troy draws a powerful comparison between door-to-door sales and tech sales, emphasizing the "grit advantage" that field experience brings to SDRs. "When you've faced a hard 'no' in person, a cold call feels like nothing in comparison," he says.

• Changing SDR-AE Dynamics: Troy sheds light on how SDRs today are siloed from AEs, creating inefficiencies and reducing the perceived value of the SDR role. He argues, "SDRs should be incentivized on closed revenue, not just meetings scheduled. If SDRs aren't setting up closeable pipeline, the model is broken."

• Leveraging Tech Without Replacing the Human Element: Troy warns SDRs not to rely too heavily on automation, as it threatens their job security. "If you use tools to replace what makes you unique as a salesperson, human SDRs will no longer exist."

• Career Pathing and SDR Motivation: Troy believes in promoting from within but stresses performance as the primary driver. For SDRs looking to move up, he advises a proactive approach: "Crush it at your current role, then ask to close smaller deals once you hit target—this shows you're ready for AE responsibilities."

Insightful Quotes from Troy Barter:

• "Door-to-door sales taught me grit in a way tech never could. When you've walked a block in August Florida heat, SDR calls are nothing."
• "You don't bring Tom Brady in to block—you bring him in to win. AEs should close, not prospect; SDRs should build closeable pipeline, not just book meetings."
• "SDRs, don't let automation do your whole job. Those tools are here to help, but if they replace your role, you'll be out of a job before you know it."
• "If your SDR pipeline isn't closing, your model is broken. Either the product doesn't work, or the process is flawed—fix it."
• "The tech hasn't changed; it's the mindset. The SDRs with the willingness to put in real work are standing out more than ever."

Episode Takeaways:

• Resilience is key in sales development: SDRs with door-to-door or other tough sales backgrounds have a built-in advantage.
• Real alignment between SDRs and AEs drives pipeline success. The current model, which separates SDR and AE goals, is hurting the industry.
• Career growth in sales development depends on demonstrating consistent success in pipeline generation, not just meeting quotas.
• Tools are just that—tools: The real value of SDRs lies in their ability to connect and problem-solve in ways automation cannot replace.

In this episode of Bold Calling, presented by Orum, Adam Sockel sits down with Joe Fontana, the North American Sales Director for BuyerForesight, for a dynamic discussion on building high-performing sales teams, the importance of sales and marketing alignment, and how discipline plays a key role in sales success. With decades of experience in both leading and consulting for sales teams across a variety of industries, Joe brings a wealth of insights into the often-overlooked fundamentals of sales—human connection and discipline.

1. The Power of Simplicity in Sales and Marketing Alignment One of Joe's biggest lessons throughout his career is the necessity of simple, clear communication between sales and marketing teams. He stresses, "Talk to me like I'm five until I tell you to stop." By starting with the basics, Joe believes sales teams can understand the nuances of what marketing is doing and align on a cohesive strategy. According to Joe, salespeople should leave their ego at the door and focus on the common goal: reaching the right customers effectively.
2. Building Relationships Before the Pitch When it comes to prospecting, Joe advocates for an authentic, relationship-first approach. Whether it's at executive dinners or during one-on-one interactions, Joe emphasizes the importance of earning the right to pitch. He says, "You can't put a price on human interaction and authenticity because that's all sales is—just a series of conversations between someone who has a problem and someone who can solve it."
3. Sales Teams Must Learn Discipline and Structure Joe also highlights the importance of personal discipline, noting how his military background has shaped his structured approach to daily routines. He stresses the need for sellers to not only be well-prepared but also manage their time with intention. "I need to be disciplined and I need to be structured. I'm up every morning before 4:30 AM because I know that keeps me mentally sharp."
4. Solving for Misalignment in Sales and Marketing One of the most frustrating challenges for Joe is when sales teams don't take full advantage of the high-quality prospects that marketing delivers. He shares how he often finds marketers frustrated by sales reps who don't fully understand their ICP or don't utilize the materials they're given. His advice? Sales teams need to start seeing marketing as a valuable partner rather than an obstacle.

Joe Fontana brings real talk to the table, offering a candid view of what really works in sales development, pipeline building, and team collaboration. With practical advice for both sales leaders and individual contributors, this episode is a must-listen for anyone who wants to learn how to build a sustainable and scalable sales team. Whether you're struggling with sales and marketing alignment or looking for ways to improve your personal sales discipline, Joe's insights will leave you with plenty to think about—and implement.

Quotes from the Episode:

• "You have to keep your ego at the door when building a sales org. You may think you know everything, but a day in the trenches will show you otherwise." – Joe Fontana
• "Nobody wants to talk about your product. They're not there for your brand. They're there because of the challenge that keeps them up at 2 AM. Talk to that." – Joe Fontana
• "If you can't communicate with your colleagues in sales and marketing, how can you be relied upon to communicate with a prospect?" – Joe Fontana

Connect with Joe Fontana:

• LinkedIn: Joe Fontana