Bold Enough

As the year closes, one powerful question rises to the surface. What does it take for someone to walk away from the comfort of a Wall Street career, the predictable salary, and the traditional definition of success, and instead choose the wild, uncertain, and incredibly rewarding path of entrepreneurship?

In this powerful episode, Madeleine MacRae sits down with Dave Gilbert, a founder whose entire entrepreneurial journey refuses the traditional script. After two decades in tech, real estate, and e-commerce, and after building a company from two people to 5,000 employees, Dave discovered that success was not about chasing unicorn valuations or 100 hour weeks. It was about freedom, meaningful relationships, and building companies where people actually love working.

Dave opens up about his winding career, the emotional cost of selling a company, the grief that follows identity loss, and the joy of building his fractional executive firm where world class leaders bring 20 to 30 years of experience to companies that could never afford them full time. He also talks about redefining ambition, designing a life you want to live, and choosing work that aligns with who you are, not just what you can build.

As we step into 2026, Dave's story is the reminder we all need: success is not about scale. It is about intention. And this year, you deserve a life that feels as good on the inside as it looks on the outside.

Wishing you a grounded, purpose filled, deeply joyful start to 2026. More transformative guests on the way!

Key Takeaways

Why non-traditional careers are becoming the new norm and why that is a gift

Why fractional executives are becoming the future of growth for small and mid sized businessesThe hidden grief founders experience when they exit their companiesWhy chasing unicorn status creates unhealthy pressure and what sustainable success actually looks likeHow to build companies where people stay because they want to, not because they have toWhy success is less about money and more about freedom, family, and meaningful relationships

In This Episode

[00:00] Introduction to David Gilbert

[04:43] Validating career paths and startup hiring[05:08] Tech startup exit and business growth[05:56] Fractional executive firm vision and passion[06:37] Benefits of fractional executives

[09:39] Challenges of buying vs building companies[11:56] Service vs product business models[12:27] Growth mindset: unicorns vs sustainable companies[13:41] Redefining success and profit

[16:16] Identity and grieving after exiting a company

[19:59] Defining personal success

[23:58] Closing thoughts and contact information

Notable Quotes

[15:34] “Who you are is how you treat people and what you do with your life and how you spend your time. It's not what you did in your career or the company that you grew.” – David

[21:01] “Spending time with people that we want to spend time with that we choose to spend time with, to me, is the ideal success story.” – David

Our Guest

Dave Gilbert is a tech founder, entrepreneur, and owner of multiple companies including a fractional executive firm and an engineering company. After two decades building businesses across tech, real estate, and e-commerce, Dave now leads a 30 person team that delivers fractional CFO, HR, and back office services. His passion is sustainable growth, meaningful relationships, and building companies where people truly thrive.

Resources and Links

David Gilbert

Email: Dave@ProvenCoLinkedIn: ⁠linkedin.com/in/davidmgilbert⁠

Madeleine MacRae

Website - ⁠https://mmmacrae.com/making-changes-training-motivating/⁠LinkedIn - ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/macraemadeleine⁠Instagram - ⁠https://www.instagram.com/madeleine.macrae/⁠Book – ⁠The Tenacious Pursuit of Peace: Where to Go When Success Isn’t Enough⁠

In this special year-end episode of Scaling the Gap, Madeleine MacRae wraps up 2025 with a guest who could not be a better fit for the finale. Anthony Kulikowski, a lifelong painter from South Bend, shares how one phone call he almost ignored ended up reshaping everything. He was tired, annoyed, stalling before walking back into a job site, and he picked up the phone just to catch his breath. That simple hello opened the path from a $300K independent business to a $750K franchise in his first year and eventually into a $3M multi location operation, all without ever touching a paintbrush again.

Anthony talks openly about the tough parts of growth: letting go of roles he used to love, trusting other people to do things he once handled himself, and discovering the joy of watching new leaders rise. His story shows how curiosity, timing, and a little courage can take you places you never expected.

As our final guest of 2025, Anthony leaves us with the perfect reminder heading into the new year: sometimes the moment that changes everything shows up looking ordinary. And as we step into 2026, get ready for even more amazing guests, deeper conversations, and the breakthroughs waiting for you. 

Wishing you a powerful new beginning and a truly Happy 2026.

Key Takeaways

• How a single cold call, taken on a bad day, led to a business doubling its revenue.

• The critical shift from being the best painter to being the best leader and coach.

• Why "no" in sales is conditional and how to build a pipeline that accounts for life's changing priorities.

• The "Money Dance": How to translate daily activities into personal paychecks to motivate your team.

• The under-discussed grief of growth: learning to let go of the work you love to embrace the leader you must become.

• Why success is more about your team's satisfaction and customer legacy than your top-line revenue.

• The power of being a "platform" for your employees' growth and the ripple effect of local business ownership.

In This Episode

• (00:00) Introduction to Anthony Kulikowski

• (05:33) First year franchise growth and realizations

• (08:21) Life happens: timing and customer readiness

• (13:06) The money dance: translating activity to results

• (17:01) Ripple effect: lifting as we climb

• (18:17) Biggest challenges in scaling

• (21:05) The grief of letting go in growth

• (23:32) Anthony's definition of success

• (30:50) Closing and contact information

Notable Quotes

• [09:13] “For me personally, my journey is funny. I wouldn’t have normally answered the phone, but that tenacity made the difference.” – Anthony

• [15:16] “If you had told me fifteen years ago, while I was rolling walls, that I’d be leading a team and helping people grow, I would never have believed it.” – Anthony

• [19:05] “Every step of the way, I had to give something up. I had to trust another painter to do as good a job as me.” – Anthony

• [27:51] “Leaving a legacy behind, building something bigger than yourself, and giving people opportunity, that’s where success really is.” – Anthony

Our Guest

Anthony Kulikowski is the owner of three Five Star Painting franchise locations in the South Bend, Indiana region. With 27 years of experience in the trade, starting as a teenager learning from his wife’s grandfather, Anthony scaled from a small independent operation to a multi million dollar company by embracing systems, leadership, and people development. Today he leads a thriving team, mentors rising talent, and continues expanding into new service ventures.

Resources and Links

Anthony Kulikowski

• Website: https://www.fivestarpainting.com/

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/anthony-kulikowski-2b159b68

Madeleine MacRae

• Website - https://mmmacrae.com/making-changes-training-motivating/

• LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/macraemadeleine

• Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/madeleine.macrae/

• Book – The Tenacious Pursuit of Peace: Where to Go When Success Isn’t Enough

In this episode of Scaling the Gap, Madeleine MacRae sits down with Joel Worthington, a pastor turned president who took Mr. Electric from $40 million to over $200 million  and built a brand where people actually loved showing up to work. After 16 years in ministry and more than a decade leading one of Neighborly’s flagship companies, Joel now teaches leaders the system he spent 30 years developing. It is a practical, repeatable approach to leadership that transforms cultures, increases profits, and creates true followers instead of disengaged employees.

Joel shares why soft skills are learnable, why charisma is not magic, why most owners set the wrong goals, and how a simple mindset called Tell Me More instantly deepens connection and influence.

This conversation is a reminder that leadership is not about pressure, perfection, or pretending. It is about alignment, authenticity, and creating a workplace where people bring their full energy because they genuinely want to.

Key Takeaways

• Why leadership is not innate and why every human can learn it through practice and structure

• The science behind mirror neurons and why authentic connection raises performance

• Why most owners set goals for the wrong reasons and how misalignment sabotages culture

• The difference between a "Get to" culture and a "Have to" culture

• Why safe environments produce truth, creativity, loyalty, and high engagement

• Why misaligned leadership creates resentment, fear, and disengagement

• How leadership skills become contagious and impact families, homes, and communities

In This Episode

• [00:00] Introduction to Joel Worthington

• [05:01] Leadership programs and step-by-step systems

• [09:28] Self-leadership and knowing what you want

• [10:33] The “tell me more” mindset and authentic connection

• [13:32] Energy in leadership and employee engagement

• [17:19] Creating a safe, transparent environment

• [19:45] Mirroring, authenticity, and self-leadership

• [21:18] Aligning goals with genuine motivation

• [22:41] Coaching owners to find their “why”

• [27:06] The power of a “get to” culture

• [29:02] Leadership’s ripple effect on families and communities

• [32:59] Closing and where to find Joel

Notable Quotes

• [08:24] “Leadership is something that can be grown. You just have to practice.” – Joel

• [08:16] “If you can learn to smile, I can teach you charisma.” – Joel

• [13:12] “If we can turn employees into followers, we get their heart and when we get their heart, we naturally get their hands.” – Joel

• [17:08] “Energy is a choice. An employee can do the task and give almost no energy at all.” – Joel

• [08:47] “We have to become the leader first; the title or position comes later.” – Joel

• [19:11] “We have leaders who literally believe they have the truth and are making great strategic decisions, but it’s based on lies because they haven’t created an environment where people are willing to tell them the truth.” – Joel

• [24:22] “Tap into your energy as an owner, and if it doesn't tap into your energy, you don't have the right energy around your employees.” – Joel

Our Guest

Joel Worthington is a leadership expert, former pastor, and longtime president of Mr. Electric, where he helped scale the brand from 40M to more than 200M. After 30 years of studying and teaching leadership, Joel now runs a leadership training company that equips owners, executives, and entrepreneurs with practical, step by step systems to develop people, build thriving cultures, and increase profit through authentic connection.

Resources and Links

Joel Worthington

• Website: joelworthington.com

• LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/joelworthington

• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/JoelWorthington/videos

Madeleine MacRae

• Website - https://mmmacrae.com/making-changes-training-motivating/

• LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/macraemadeleine

• Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/madeleine.macrae/

• Book – The Tenacious Pursuit of Peace: Where to Go When Success Isn’t Enough

Managing a company remotely for 16 years sounds impossible for most owners, but Judy Cisler has turned it into her greatest advantage.

In this episode of Scaling the Gap, host Madeleine MacRae sits down with window-coverings entrepreneur Judy Cisler, the powerhouse owner of Gotcha Covered Grand Rapids, a window-coverings business she built from scratch and now runs almost entirely remotely. Her unconventional career pivot, her honesty with herself, and her willingness to keep growing have shaped a business she loves and a life she doesn’t need to escape from.

If you’ve ever wondered what success looks like after 16 years of hard-earned growth, clarity, and freedom, this episode is a must-listen.

Key Takeaways

• How to know when an advisor or coach is the right fit for you (it's all about gut feel and trust).

• How hiring doesn’t fix cultural or leadership gaps  and why avoidance always makes problems bigger

• Why different employees fit different stages of growth, and how to confidently let go when needed

• Why you must be willing to "change your own beliefs" to break through plateaus and grow.

• The unexpected fulfillment of watching your team grow, collaborate, and love the work

• How remote leadership can succeed with clear strategy, systems, and the right people

• Why retirement loses its appeal when you’ve already created the life you once dreamed about

In This Episode

• [00:00] Introduction to Judy Cisler

• [03:19] Building the business and showroom

• [05:22] Finding advisors and trusting instincts

• [06:48] The role of gut instinct in choosing advisors

• [09:05] Hard lessons: hiring and letting go

• [10:08] Team evolution and confronting issues

• [12:15] Evolving beliefs and overcoming plateaus

• [13:19] Unexpected joys of entrepreneurship

• [14:05] Team passion and employee commitment

• [16:11] Milestone: 16 years in business and remote ownership

• [16:54] Redefining retirement and life satisfaction

• [20:10] Defining success: team, customers, self

• [21:14] Success algorithm 

• [23:53] Contact information and closing remarks

Notable Quotes

• [02:47] “I didn't always make a good employee. Me listening to others being told how to do my job or what to do. I had some pretty independent thinking.” – Judy Cisler

• [05:13] “It's interesting. When you're a new business owner, you're learning everything and you're wearing dozens of hats and you really have to be strategic and think down the road.” – Judy Cisler

• [06:49] “Some of it's just gut feel. Oftentimes, you have family, friends, maybe even employees saying, why do you need that? Why are you doing that?” – Judy Cisler

• [12:28]  "You start questioning your own beliefs, and then you have to realize, you know what? I can change my belief. I can hire differently or operate differently. I need to evolve and progress." – Judy Cisler

• [12:54] “Pain is temporary and conditional, but suffering through it, that's the part that you can choose not to choose.” – Madeleine MacRae

• [17:43] “The term retirement does not hold magic for me.” – Judy Cisler

• [19:28] “Luck happens when opportunity meets preparation. And putting yourself in a position to get lucky takes extremely hard work.” – Madeleine MacRae

Our Guest

Judy Cisler is the owner of Gotcha Covered Grand Rapids, a window-coverings business she built from scratch and now runs almost entirely remotely. With a background in industrial engineering, Judy entered entrepreneurship during the Great Recession, evolving from solopreneur to strategic leader. She’s passionate about team development, customer experience, and building a business that supports the life she wants to live.

Resources and Links

Judy Cisler

• Website:https://www.gotchacovered.com/grand-rapids/

• LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/judy-cisler-71600944

Madeleine MacRae

• Website - https://mmmacrae.com/making-changes-training-motivating/

• LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/macraemadeleine

• Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/madeleine.macrae/

• Book – The Tenacious Pursuit of Peace: Where to Go When Success Isn’t Enough

In this inspiring episode of Scaling the Gap, Madeleine MacRae sits down with Jennifer Young, the owner of Mr. K’s Fabric Shop in Quincy, Illinois, a 50-year legacy business she unexpectedly found herself leading after one serendipitous phone call. 

Jennifer shares the unbelievable story of how she spoke the idea of buying the business out loud one night… only to receive an offer from the owner the very next morning. With zero experience in window treatments, upholstery, or awnings, she stepped in on February 1st and learned everything from the ground up. Along the way, she navigated skeptical employees, COVID uncertainty, and the steep learning curve of transforming a paper-based operation into a modernized, growing company. 

Through it all, Jennifer never lost sight of what matters most: people. She reveals how community relationships, genuine customer care, and the joy of working alongside a childhood best friend helped her evolve Mr. K’s into a thriving, service-driven business.

Her story is a powerful reminder that preparation, faith, and courage often meet at the perfect moment if you’re willing to say yes.

Key Takeaways

• How faith, timing, and bold words led Jennifer to buy a business she never expected.

• Why relationships, not revenue, drive sustainable success in rural communities.

• How Covid unexpectedly became a season of growth for Mr. K’s.

• The importance of honoring legacy while modernizing systems and processes.

• Why upholstery is a dying art and how Jennifer is preserving it for future generations.

• The real meaning of success when you lead with service, humility, and community impact.

In This Episode

• (00:00) Introduction to Jennifer Young

• (03:45) Diving into a new industry

• (05:33) Unexpected delights: hiring a childhood friend

• (07:28) Early hurdles and team dynamics

• (10:07) Preparation meets opportunity

• (14:20) Serving a diverse clientele

• (16:10) Jen's definition of success

• (22:59) How to connect with Jen and Mr. K’s

• (23:26) Closing reflections and takeaways

Notable Quotes

• [01:57] “I do believe in a higher power and believe everything happens for a reason.” – Jennifer Young

• [10:08] “I've always wanted to own a business.  I just never knew what I wanted to own..” – Jennifer Young

• [10:21] “It's funny how God knows what he's going to give you before you know. And I just look back there and he gave me all the steps that I needed to be where I'm at.”– Jennifer Young

• [11:20] “It's about building the relationships. So it's not just selling that window treatment or selling that upholstery or that awning.” – Jennifer Young

• [12:07] “Luck is what happens at the intersection of preparation and opportunity…people miss opportunity because it shows up in overalls. It looks like hard work.” – Madeleine MacRae

• [13:41] “Sometimes the more you chase, the harder it is to catch it. If you chase service and depth of relationship, it's going to come back to you again and again and again.” – Madeleine MacRae

Our Guest

Jennifer Young is the owner of Mr. K's Fabric Shop, a 73-year-old Hunter Douglas gallery and upholstery service in Quincy, Illinois. With a background in HR, marketing, and sales, Jennifer unexpectedly became a business owner in 2019 and has since grown the legacy company by focusing on deep customer relationships, community integration, and a heartfelt commitment to service. She is passionate about preserving a "dying art" like upholstery and providing a welcoming place for both her customers and her committed staff.

Resources and Links

Mr. K’s Fabric Shop

• Website: mrksquincy.com

• Facebook: Mr. K’s Fabric Shop – Quincy, IL

• Phone: (217) 222-5816

Jennifer Young

• LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jennifer-young-a0977349

Madeleine MacRae

• Website - https://mmmacrae.com/making-changes-training-motivating/

• LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/macraemadeleine

• Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/madeleine.macrae/

• Book – The Tenacious Pursuit of Peace: Where to Go When Success Isn’t Enough

In this special Thanksgiving week episode of Scaling the Gap, host Madeleine MacRae sits down with Leigh Feldman, CEO of a platform of youth enrichment brands including Young Chefs Academy and Flower Power Studios. They explore how hands-on cooking classes do much more than teach culinary skills, they build self-esteem, foster family connections, and help kids find their unique "spark."

Leigh opens up about the journey of acquiring and scaling established franchise brands, sharing his philosophy on leadership that prioritizes people, process, and technology. He reveals the simple but powerful question he asks all his franchisees to unlock growth and the "Aspirin" approach that ensures no challenge becomes a migraine.

Whether you're a parent, a leader, or someone searching for deeper meaning in your work, this episode will leave you inspired to look inward and celebrate the unique ingredients you bring to the table.

Key Takeaways

• How youth culinary programs teach life skills, boost confidence, and help kids find their "lane"

• The "Stop" framework (Situation, Target, Opportunity, Proposal) for tackling any business challenge

• Why asking "On a scale of 1-10, how would you rate yourself?" reveals critical paths for growth

• How to act as an "Aspirin" for your team to solve problems before they escalate

• The importance of embracing individual franchisee strengths while maintaining a cohesive brand system

• Why success is found in robust relationships, personal alignment, and accomplishing what you set out to do

In This Episode

• [00:00] Introduction to Leigh Feldman

• [04:54] The passion behind empowering kids and families through cooking

• [07:12] The "lightbulb moment" when a child discovers their own capabilities

• [13:22] Unexpected hurdles in franchising: People, Process, and Technology

• [17:02] The "Aspirin" philosophy and the "STOP" framework for problem-solving

• [19:53] The powerful question: "On a scale of 1-10, how would you rate yourself?"

• [25:05] Leigh's personal definition of success

• [30:31] How to connect with Leigh and his brands

Notable Quotes

• [03:14] "If you think you are nervous as a person, you should watch 3-year-olds carry a dozen eggs each to the table." – Leigh Feldman

• [07:01] “Being able to work in youth enrichment is so rewarding personally. Knowing that you are truly changing kids’ and families’ lives: there is nothing better than that." – Leigh Feldman

• [17:37] "The engagement of the franchisees in a franchise system is so important... to not take advantage of that and leverage it and use it and share best practices information wins. Things that you've tried that maybe didn't work inside the brand and outside of the brand would be foolish." – Leigh Feldman

• [20:42] "I ask our franchisees all the time, scale of 1 to 10, how would you rate yourself as a franchisee? The most common answer is seven." – Leigh Feldman

• [25:16] “I feel like I have accomplished what I set out to do as a base for where I want my life to be.” – Leigh Feldman

Our Guest

Leigh Feldman is the CEO of a platform of brands in the youth and family enrichment space, including Young Chefs Academy and Flower Power Cooking Studios. With a passion for helping children discover their confidence and creativity through cooking, Leigh leads with a focus on community, franchisee success, and creating remarkable experiences. He believes in the power of introspection, feedback, and servant leadership to build businesses that make a lasting impact.

Resources and Links

Leigh Feldman

• Young Chefs Academy: https://youngchefsacademy.com

• Flower Power Studios: https://flourpowerstudios.com/

• LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/leigh-feldman-39a2b4203

Madeleine MacRae

• Website - https://mmmacrae.com/making-changes-training-motivating/

• LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/macraemadeleine

How does someone who never planned on entering franchising end up spending three decades shaping franchise systems across the country?

In this episode of Scaling the Gap, host Madeleine MacRae sits down with Suave Brachowski, a seasoned franchise leader and brand president within HorsePower Brands, who currently leads both Bilingual Premier Lighting and Varsity Zone HVAC.

Suave shares the unlikely beginning of his career at McDonald’s, the leap of faith that led him to Arizona, and the “instant regret” that somehow became one of the best decisions of his life. Through turnarounds, startups, and nationwide franchise systems, Suave discovered what truly fuels successful business growth: a heart of service, a culture of collaboration, and a deep commitment to helping franchise owners succeed.

This is a conversation for anyone building a team, leading a franchise, or looking to infuse more purpose and practical strategy into their work.

Key Takeaways

• Why "Co-Opetition" is the essential framework for a thriving franchise system.

• Why franchising is a “commercial marriage” and why giving 100% matters more than anything

• How to diagnose and fix a broken or siloed company culture.

• The two budgets every business owner must master: money and time.

• Why your "why" is the most important asset you have as a leader and entrepreneur.

• How a difficult decision and a moment of doubt can become your greatest turning point.

In This Episode

• [00:00] Introduction to Suave Brachowski

• [05:38] How positivity, teamwork, and vision turn desolate situations around

• [07:35] Why franchising works when both sides give 100%

• [09:07] Understanding your “why” in business and home services

• [13:20] Hard moments: when franchise cultures are siloed or struggling

• [14:31] The concept of “competition” and why it fuels successful brands

• [16:17] Money vs. time: the two budgets every owner must track

• [19:00] How cooperation and collaboration drive franchise success

• [21:04] Suave’s evolving definition of success

• [24:23] Where to connect with Suave

Notable Quotes

• [04:53] “I enjoy bringing people together, creating a vision, and all of us contributing brick by brick, wall by wall, just building something that we are really all proud of.” – Suave

• [05:41] “Sometimes we see something that is really desolate, that is not working, that is broken, and just a little bit of water, a little bit of sunshine, a little bit of positivity, and you can really turn it into something flourishing.” – Suave

• [07:20] “Our goal always has been to make sure we give everything we possibly can for our franchise owners.” – Suave

• [10:09] “You have to know your "why ". You have to know, are you doing this because you want your family to come into it? Are you building a long term legacy?” – Suave

• [16:20] “Every business owner has two budgets: they have money and they have time.” – Suave

• [15:06] “If there are 10 of us in a room and we all share our best ideas, yes, I lost one idea, but I just gained nine. We always win in that environment.” – Suave

Our Guest

Suave Brachowski is a seasoned franchise executive with over 33 years of experience spanning major brands, turnarounds, startups, and multi brand leadership. Today he leads Bilingual Premier Lighting and Varsity Zone HVAC under HorsePower Brands, helping franchise owners build successful businesses rooted in service, integrity, and community impact.

Resources and Links

Suave Brachowski

• Work Email: [email protected]

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/suave-brachowski/

Madeleine MacRae

• Website - https://mmmacrae.com/making-changes-training-motivating/

• LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/macraemadeleine

• Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/madeleine.macrae/

• Book – The Tenacious Pursuit of Peace: Where to Go When Success Isn’t Enough

How can a simple college side hustle grow into a thriving, full-fledged business? In this episode of Scaling the Gap, host Madeleine MacRae welcomes Patrick Brown, founder and CEO of Surv. What began as Rent Sons, a playful idea to offer “quality service without the complaining of an actual son,” has grown into a purpose-driven franchise that builds stronger communities while empowering people to grow.

Pat opens up about his entrepreneurial journey from a college side hustle to a tech-enabled startup and eventually into a scalable franchise model. Along the way, he shares the lessons learned from embracing feedback, fostering innovation among franchisees, and leading with humility and faith.

Together, Madeleine and Pat explore how servant leadership transforms business, why structure creates freedom, and how low-mindshare work gives people the mental space to reflect on who they are becoming. The result is a conversation that proves success is not just about profit. It is about purpose, people, and the quiet power of serving well.

Whether you lead a growing team or are searching for meaning in your work, this episode will inspire you to see everyday service in a whole new light.

Key Takeaways

• How “Rent Sons” evolved from a college project into a community-centered franchise
• Why feedback, even when hard to hear, is the foundation of authentic growth
• How servant leadership and faith intersect in building a purpose-driven business
• The hidden value of “low mindshare” work and how it fosters reflection and growth
• Why franchising thrives on humility, collaboration, and shared innovation
• How true success is defined not by wealth, but by meaning, impact, and legacy

In This Episode

• [00:00] Introduction to Patrick Brown
• [02:54] Building community and business growth
• [06:16] Challenges in transitioning to franchising
• [11:16] Generosity, information sharing, and scarcity mindset
• [12:42] Personal growth and embracing feedback
• [18:03] Learning from others and role models
• [19:49] Intentionality and self-discovery in work
• [21:08] Pat’s definition of success
• [27:17] Closing reflections and contact information

Notable Quotes

• [04:25] "I love being an entrepreneur. I love always innovating and finding new ways to do things and making the business better and better." – Pat Brown
• [14:04] "Feedback will always help you grow, and you grow into your best self through feedback." – Pat Brown
• [21:41] "I think the finish line is a false reality. Success really is about living the way you would want to be living today." – Pat Brown

Our Guest

Pat Brown is the Founder and CEO of Surv, a fast-growing service franchise that connects people through meaningful work. What began as a college venture called “Rent Sons” has evolved into a mission-driven business empowering individuals to serve their communities while developing practical and life skills. Pat believes in the power of feedback, curiosity, and servant leadership to create a ripple effect of positive impact across generations.

Resources and Links

Pat Brown

• Website: https://www.wesurv.com/
• LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/pat-brown-surv

Madeleine MacRae

• Website - https://mmmacrae.com/making-changes-training-motivating/
• LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/macraemadeleine
• Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/madeleine.macrae/
• Book – The Tenacious Pursuit of Peace: Where to Go When Success Isn’t Enough

In this episode of Scaling the Gap, host Madeleine MacRae sits down with Bill McDevitt, founder of Top of the World Coaching. Bill shares his incredible journey from a 12-year-old paper boy learning business basics to a seasoned McDonald's executive, and finally to a small business coach dedicated to empowering leaders. His story is not a straight line but a series of peaks and valleys, including a profound personal loss that reshaped his timeline but not his resolve.

Bill opens up about the foundational principles that guide his work: Empathy, Flexibility, and Self-Awareness, and his "Three P" philosophy: People, Performance, Profit. He reveals why the key to growth is training others to make you obsolete and how a broken window from his childhood taught him a lesson in honesty that shaped his entire career. This conversation is a masterclass in building a meaningful legacy, both in business and in life.

If you’ve ever wondered how to build a business that outlives you or how to lead with humility and heart, this conversation is for you.

Key Takeaways

• How a childhood paper route taught foundational business and integrity lessons.
• Why teaching your team to replace you is the ultimate leadership strategy.
• How to apply the "Three P" principle (People, Performance, Profit) for sustainable growth.
• The importance of navigating life's inevitable "peaks and valleys" with resilience.
• How to define success as a journey of legacy-building, not a destination.
• Why empathy, flexibility, and self-awareness are non-negotiable for modern leaders.
• Bill's personal "success algorithm" that focuses on lasting impressions and family.

In This Episode

• [00:00] Introduction to Bill McDevitt
• [03:04] The power of leadership duplication
• [07:29] People, performance, and profit principle
• [09:17] Lessons in honesty and accountability
• [13:04] Navigating peaks, valleys, and life’s unexpected turns
• [14:40] Launching Top of the World Coaching
• [15:31] Embracing flexibility and agility in business
• [17:59] Identity, humility, and learning from others
• [19:23] Foundations of Bill’s coaching practice
• [20:16] Defining success and legacy
• [26:53] Final takeaways and how to connect with Bill

Notable Quotes

• [03:53] "The only way you can move on to the next thing is if you teach somebody what I taught you."— Bill McDevitt
• [07:41] "If you get the right people, train the right people, coach the right people, they're going to perform better. And when you get that high-performing team out there, then you're going to naturally turn profit."— Bill McDevitt
• [13:26] "If you want to hear a laugh from above, make a plan."— Bill McDevitt
• [12:38] “The right thing to do is very rarely the easy thing to do, but it always has such an extreme payoff."— Bill McDevitt
• [20:28] "Success to me is not a destination. It is a journey, and it's a journey that you're creating your legacy."— Bill McDevitt
• [24:32] "I want to leave a meaningful, lasting impression... The leader is setting up the culture. And this culture that you're setting up will be here long after you're gone."— Bill McDevitt

Our Guest

Bill McDevitt is the founder of Top of the World Coaching, a coaching practice dedicated to helping small business owners and leaders scale their impact without sacrificing their values. With a decades-long career that began at McDonald's and spanned corporate leadership, Bill brings a wealth of real-world experience centered on his core principles of People, Performance, and Profit. He is passionate about empowering leaders to build lasting cultures and legacies.

Resources and Links

Bill McDevitt

• Top of the World Coaching - https://totwcoaching.com/
• Email - [email protected]
• LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/billmcdevitt-top-of-the-world-coaching

Madeleine MacRae

• Website - https://mmmacrae.com/making-changes-training-motivating/
• LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/macraemadeleine
• Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/madeleine.macrae/
• Book – The Tenacious Pursuit of Peace: Where to Go When Success Isn’t Enough

What really makes a franchise thrive, the systems or the people behind them? In this episode of Scaling the Gap, Madeleine MacRae chats with Matt Kunz, COO of Fastest Labs, about what it truly takes to grow a business without losing your humanity. From his early days running Sylvan Learning Centers with his wife to leading powerhouse brands like Five Star Painting and Mr. Rooter Plumbing, Matt’s journey is packed with lessons on resilience, leadership, and staying humble through success.

They dig into how the right structure creates freedom, why technology should enhance, not replace, the human touch, and how the best leaders focus on their franchisees’ bottom line just as much as their own. Matt also shares some of the toughest moments in his career, including legal battles, communication missteps, and the surprising “collateral beauty” that came from it all.

It’s an honest, inspiring look at growth, grit, and the heart of franchising. Whether you lead a team or dream of building one, this episode will leave you thinking differently about success.

Key Takeaways

• Why the best structures create freedom, not restriction.
• How to balance unit growth, diversification, and same-store sales for sustainable franchise scaling.
• The power of empathy and communication in franchise leadership.
• Lessons from the “collateral beauty” of franchising where growth happens through people.
• Why saying no to good ideas can be the ultimate path to greatness.
• How bringing your team along on the journey transforms outcomes and loyalty.
• Why defining success is less about milestones and more about legacy, humility, and continuous evolution.

In This Episode

• [00:00] Introduction to Matt Kunz
• [05:09] Evolution of structure and technology in franchising
• [06:50] Remote work and communication tools
• [08:44] Diversity among franchisees
• [10:14] Transformational growth in business ownership
• [15:52] Unexpected joys and hurdles in franchising
• [21:23] The importance of communication and mentorship
• [23:49] Learning from mistakes: the logo redesign story
• [27:28] The value of bringing people along the journey
• [29:32] Reflecting on growth and adaptability
• [30:36] Defining success and legacy
• [37:08] How to connect with Matt and Fastest Labs
• [38:27] Closing remarks and podcast outro

Notable Quotes

• [04:48] "Structure isn't a straitjacket. Structure gives you freedom. The best type of structure is going to unleash your capacity." — Matt
• [06:18] "A few years back, you saw technology coming on, trying to replace the human. Now people are realizing the technology has to enhance the human, not replace the human." — Matt
• [07:51] "In franchising, people are friendly and welcoming and supportive, and even if you might be offering a competitive service or even if you might be a competing brand, there is still just a sense of, I'm going to call it almost family." — Matt
• [19:59] "This is a very humbling industry. Like if you come in cocky, you will leave humbled in this industry." — Matt
• [35:12] "I don't think we're going to be defined by what we say yes to. I think we're going to be more defined by what we say no to." — Matt

Our Guest

Matt is the Chief Operating Officer of Fastest Labs, a rapidly growing drug testing franchise headquartered in San Antonio, Texas. With a background in mechanical engineering and over two decades in franchising, Matt has led operations and brand growth at multiple national franchises, including Sylvan Learning Center, Five Star Painting, and Mr. Rooter Plumbing. He is passionate about scalable systems, people-first leadership, and creating lasting impact through mentoring and strategic growth.

Resources and Links

Matt Kunz

• Website: fastestlabs.com
• Franchise Info: fastestlabsfranchise.com
• Email: [email protected]
• LinkedIn: Matt on LinkedIn

Madeleine MacRae

• Website - https://mmmacrae.com/making-changes-training-motivating/
• LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/macraemadeleine
• Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/madeleine.macrae/
• Book – The Tenacious Pursuit of Peace: Where to Go When Success Isn’t Enough