In Episode Two of The Revolting Podcast, hosts Úna Brosnan and John MacAskill turn their attention to one of the most persistent assumptions in global energy thinking: the fossil fuel ladder.

They explore where this idea came from, how it continues to shape oil and gas demand forecasts, and why it may no longer reflect reality. Focusing on transport and electrification in Africa, the discussion examines technology leapfrogging, EV adoption, and the tension between policy ambition and delivery.

Alongside reflections on floating offshore wind, industry confidence, and recent market signals, Úna and John challenge the notion that all countries must follow the same energy pathway - and ask what it means when the ladder starts to break.