In this episode of Behind the Cardboard, host Ellie Dix sits down with prolific designer Matthew Dunstan, co-designer of Battle for Boulders, to talk about the art of building and maintaining relationships with publishers. They explore why nurturing these connections is so valuable, strategies for starting relationships without prior contacts, and how to strike the right balance between persistence and pressure. Ellie and Matthew also share their own positive experiences with publishers and discuss how these relationships play a role even in self-publishing. A practical and insightful conversation for anyone navigating the world of game design.