Europe is under considerable stress from the Ukraine war, a deep energy crisis, inflation, roiled financial markets, looming recessions, social unrest, and political turmoil—on top of longstanding tensions between northern and southern countries over economics and western and eastern countries over cultural and social issues.

Arguably, Europe in general (and the EU in particular) is a mess.

The question is whether these forces will combine in ways that could produce less Europe or more Europe in the coming years. Is there leadership at the national levels or at the European level that instead of merely muddling through could find new pathways to a prosperous, secure European future? What are the new ideas to cope with new problems?

In this special edition of the New Thinking for a New World podcast, Anna Palacio, former Spanish Foreign Minister, and Jakob Hallgren, an experienced Swedish diplomat who now heads the Swedish Institute of International Affairs, join host Alan Stoga to discuss how Europe might get from where it is to where its citizens need it to be. Their conversation was recorded during a Tällberg Foundation webinar on October 27.