Building Better CMOs and Marketing Leaders

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"Any organization, any team, is going to have inherent conflict," says Dave Steer, CMO of Webflow. "The question is... Do you bring it into the room and have discussion about it, or do you not talk about it in the room, and then around the water cooler you're having that kind of conversation?"

Dave learned how to "mine" conflict in this way from an executive team coach, and he says it's "bananas for anyone to not have a coach at any level of their career." And conflict is just one of the lenses through which he has tried to zoom out and think of his role as a marketing leader in terms of systems, rather than small projects.

Today on Building Better CMOs, Dave and Greg discuss the ROI of personalized marketing, how Webflow has embraced agentic marketing to help brands level up their online presence, and why "we're in the Moneyball moment for the marketing industry." Plus: The unrealistic expectations of everything marketers are supposed to be able to do in 2026.

Chapters:

00:00 Introduction

Dave's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davesteer

This episode was produced and edited by Eric Johnson from ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LightningPod⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠: https://lightningpod.fm/

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Marketing a traditional brand is one thing. Marketing an entire city — specifically, Las Vegas — is something else altogether.

For Kate Wik, CMO of the Las Vegas Convention and Visitors Authority (LVCVA), executing a massive campaign means getting hotel owners, elected officials, and local stakeholders to completely buy in. When making cultural waves, like turning the city's casinos purple for the K-pop group BTS, collaboration is everything.

"That's not my building or my assets," Kate explains. "It's bringing others along with you. That's what drives the scale of a great idea."

Today on Building Better CMOs, Kate and Greg discuss the complexities of serving Las Vegas' distinct audiences, spanning luxury, leisure, budget, and convention travelers. They dive into the unique challenges of destination marketing organization (DMO) attribution when you don't actually own the transactions, as well as how the LVCVA approaches brand health tracking, PR, and digital targeting. Plus, why Vegas has moved away from the iconic tagline "What happens here, stays here," and what it takes to produce massive recent events, such as Super Bowl LVIII and the Formula 1 Las Vegas Grand Prix.

Chapters:

Kate's LinkedIn

LVCVA

This episode was produced and edited by Eric Johnson from ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LightningPod⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

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CMOs are " really good at the M part," says Bennie Johnson, the CEO of the American Marketing Association. "We're really good at the marketing part. We struggle with the 'Chief' and the 'Officer.'"

Why is that? Some possible reasons include the lack of professional certification for great marketers, the short tenures CMOs often have before moving on to the next job, or the fact that — according to the Marketing + Media Alliance's research —  30 percent of marketing capabilities sit outside the role of CMO.

"We need to take a full push that we are unapologetically leading the business," Bennie says. "An organization's marketers are driving growth. We don't get credit for the money, but we get credit for the expense."

Today on Building Better CMOs, Bennie and Greg talk about bridging research and practice through executive–academic collaboration, emerging trends from the AMA's own research, and why Bennie believes "adjectives matter" when you talk about marketing. Plus: Why you are never the target audience.

00:00 Introduction

Bennie's LinkedIn

American Marketing Association

This episode was produced and edited by Eric Johnson from ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LightningPod⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

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Helping families navigate senior care at A Place for Mom requires constant cross-functional alignment. For marketing veteran Chris Milone, leadership extends far beyond his own department. "You have to be a thought partner to the CEO," says the CMO.

That philosophy was forged the hard way during his first stint as a chief marketer, when his boss pulled him aside to express disappointment.

"He said, 'When I hired you, I didn't hire someone to run the marketing department. That's table stakes, that's a given,'" Chris says. "'I barely hear from you in our leadership meetings. I don't know if you even care about what's going on in the rest of the company.'"

Today on Building Better CMOs, Chris and Greg talk about working with CEOs who used to be the CMO; why AI makes everyone think they’re an expert; and how to balance what your customer wants with what the business needs. Plus: Why new executives have to "talk to every single person in their organization."

00:00 Introduction

Chris' LinkedIn

Greg's LinkedIn

This episode was produced and edited by Eric Johnson from ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LightningPod⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Follow Building Better CMOs in your podcast app⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

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At the heritage beauty house Estée Lauder, marketing is led by a re-inventor, who refuses to draw any line between marketing and digital: "Everything is digital," says Global Chief Digital and Marketing Officer Aude Gandon.

However, Aude argues that there is a risk of becoming overly reliant on technology to do the job. For her, the tools only get smart when a marketer who actually knows the craft does the briefing.

"AI is not expertise," she says. "Only the marketer knows what to feed the AI with. And if we don't do it that way, it's going to be garbage in, garbage out and everybody's going to look the same."

Today on Building Better CMOs, Aude and Greg talk about how a luxury house takes real risks with creators and TikTok Shop; why young marketers still need to study and learn the fundamentals of their craft; and why, "Just because you don't fit in doesn't mean you don't belong." Plus: The merits of making lateral career moves.

Chapters:

Full transcript⁠

This episode was produced and edited by Eric Johnson from ⁠LightningPod⁠⁠

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Aude's LinkedIn⁠

At the home improvement company Lowe's, the marketing team is fittingly led by someone who believes in rolling up your sleeves and getting the job done. CMO Jennifer Wilson describes her approach as "impact over optics."

"I care about the brand and I care about the work and I care about the outcome to the customer," Jennifer says. "I put very little value on, well, what will everybody think of that? Or what's the outcome for me in that? ... One could argue maybe you could be in a different place in your career had you taken a you-first angle, but it's not who I am."

Today on Building Better CMOs, Jennifer and Greg talk about her experience in merchandising, how Lowe's is adapting to a "K-shaped economy", and leveraging customer data to build loyalty and deepen retention. Plus: Why every marketer should "Be a Sequoia, Not a Bonsai."

00:00 Introduction

Full transcript

This episode was produced and edited by Eric Johnson from LightningPod

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Jennifer's LinkedIn

Greg's LinkedIn

Being under the microscope during a corporate audit doesn’t have to be a source of friction for marketing leaders. Amy Hu, CMO at New York Life, argues that a foundation of curiosity and a commitment to delivering genuine value can transform these evaluations into strategic opportunities. Rather than viewing audits as a threat, she says, top-tier CMOs lean into the process to identify blind spots and refine their programs.

"Any other way is going to enhance the doubt," she says. "And you are trying to say, Yeah, that's great. What can we do to satisfy what you need? And maybe there is a better way."

Today on Building Better CMOs, Amy and Greg talk about her career journey as the CMO and Senior Vice President of New York Life, one of the nation's largest mutual insurance companies. She discusses how to navigate the complexities of legacy financial institutions, how to turn difficult jobs into growth and wisdom, and why CMOs need to be more adaptable to business needs.

Chapters:

Full transcript

This episode was produced and edited by Eric Johnson from LightningPod

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Amy's LinkedIn

Greg's LinkedIn

All marketers have to find the balance between subjective feelings and objective metrics, and Cooley's Matt Lieberman is no exception.

As the elite law firm's Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer, and the former CMO of PwC, Matt says the professional services industry comes with unique challenges and high stakes. That means he sometimes has to challenge coworkers on the value of certain activations, or the language they use.

"I joke at Cooley that one of the things that we're really good at here is using adjectives," he says. "When I say how was an event or what was a piece of content, they say it was amazing. It was awesome. It was excellent. And I don't mean to be flippant, but I was like, can you please tell me what 'amazing' or 'awesome' mean?"

Today on Building Better CMOs, Matt and Greg talk about the "ongoing journey" of integrating data into a legacy business culture; how professional services firms and their partners can better communicate their value to clients; and why, in your career, "it's often good to take a step laterally down ... in order to get to the next step where you want to get to."

Chapters:

Full transcript⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

This episode was produced and edited by Eric Johnson from ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LightningPod⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Follow Building Better CMOs in your podcast app⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

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Armin Molavi spent 20 years working in agencies before transitioning to client-side marketing at Hilton, then building a successful fractional CMO practice serving private equity-backed companies. Currently, he's the CMO at Instructure, which makes the ubiquitous learning management system Canvas.
"25 years of B2C, and this is my very first B2B gig, so I've been learning a lot," Armin says. "What's the saying? Like drinking from a fire hydrant?"
But at a fundamental level, he explains, B2B is not so different from what he's spent most of his career doing.
"At the end of the day, I have to convince people that if they give up their budget for what I have to sell, it's going to make their life better at work," he adds. "That's what marketing is."
Today on Building Better CMOs, Armin and Greg Stuart discuss what marketers should know about working with private equity firms, why agencies and clients both need to be better partners to each other, and the life-changing career advice he received from Kellyn Kenny. They also discuss why marketers need to drop the jargon and start connecting their work to enterprise value if they want a seat at the table.

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⁠⁠⁠⁠Greg's LinkedIn

Grace Kao has served as a marketing leader at some of the most influential consumer tech companies of our time, including Yahoo, Pandora, Instagram, Spotify, and now Snap, where she is the CMO. But one of the most important things for her career growth has been following people, rather than job titles.

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⁠⁠⁠Greg's LinkedIn