Building great software always involves technical problem solving, but the best software goes beyond function. It feels fluid, coherent, and genuinely fun to use. This quality lives at the intersection of engineering and design, and very few teams know how to reliably produce it.

Metalab is an engineering and design studio that has worked with some of the most successful companies in tech, including Apple, Slack, Uber, and Instacart. The studio is known for bringing together software engineering and design craft in a way that few studios can match.

Wesley Yu is the VP of Engineering at Metalab, where he leads the teams that design and build digital products for early-stage companies. In this episode, Wesley joins Josh Goldberg to discuss how Metalab approaches tech stack selection for client projects, why agency work demands a bias toward boring and stable technology, how iterative development and deliberately ugly apps lead to better final products, and how AI tools are changing the boundary between design and engineering.

Josh Goldberg is an independent full time open source developer in the TypeScript ecosystem. He works on projects that help developers write better TypeScript more easily, most notably on typescript-eslint: the tooling that enables ESLint and Prettier to run on TypeScript code. Josh regularly contributes to open source projects in the ecosystem such as ESLint and TypeScript. Josh is a Microsoft MVP for developer technologies and the author of the acclaimed Learning TypeScript (O’Reilly), a cherished resource for any developer seeking to learn TypeScript without any prior experience outside of JavaScript. Josh regularly presents talks and workshops at bootcamps, conferences, and meetups to share knowledge on TypeScript, static analysis, open source, and general frontend and web development.

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