But First, Coffee

But First, Coffee

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But First, Coffee episodes

  • The Future of Benefits – What Matters Most to Employees

    Jackye Clayton and John Baldino break down what benefits truly mean to employees in 2025 and where the system is headed. They explain why health benefits remain the number one concern for workers, how mental health coverage is now being embedded by dental and vision providers, and why COBRA costs are devastating for displaced workers. The episode tackles age-banding pricing as legalized ageism, the disproportionate impact of layoffs on Black women in 2025, and emerging concierge healthcare models that are raising significant venture capital. Both hosts share personal experiences navigating the Affordable Care Act marketplace and argue that tying benefits to employment status holds people back from entrepreneurship.

    • Health benefits are the first thing 90% of employees think of when they hear the word benefits
    • Dental and vision providers like MetLife and Principal now embed mental health and wellbeing services
    • COBRA costs over $600 per month for individuals and $3,000 or more for families
    • The Affordable Care Act marketplace is cheaper than COBRA but still far from affordable
    • Age-banding pricing is legalized ageism, still permitted in two US states
    • Over 600,000 Black women were laid off in 2025 out of more than 1 million total job cuts
    • Concierge healthcare models are growing: Citizen Health raised $30 million for AI patient advocacy
    • Benefits tied to employment status prevent people from pursuing entrepreneurship
    • Part-time and gig worker benefits are increasing but still insufficient
    • Personalized wellbeing platforms like Maave let employees direct funds to what matters most to them

      • [00:17:49] Health benefits as the number one employee concern

      [00:19:19] Mental health benefits embedded in dental and vision plans

      [00:22:46] The devastating cost of COBRA for displaced workers

      [00:26:42] Affordable Care Act marketplace: not actually affordable

      [00:32:32] Age-banding pricing as legalized ageism

      [00:34:37] Over 600,000 Black women laid off in 2025

      [00:38:57] Concierge healthcare and MDVIP membership models

      [00:42:05] Citizen Health raises $30M for AI patient advocacy

      [00:44:05] Benefits tied to employment status holding back entrepreneurs

      [00:46:02] Personalized wellbeing platforms like Maave

      Keywords: employee benefits, health insurance, COBRA costs, Affordable Care Act, mental health benefits, concierge healthcare, age-banding, gig worker benefits, wellbeing platforms, benefits strategy

      1 hr 4 min
    • Building a Culture of Gratitude (Even When It's Tough)

      Gratitude sounds easy until life actually gets hard, and this episode leans into exactly that tension. Jackye Clayton and John Baldino talk through practicing thankfulness during a genuinely difficult year, redefining career identity without shame, and why leaning on the benefits already sitting in front of you is its own form of gratitude.

      Key Takeaways:

      • Gratitude is a discipline you choose, not a feeling that shows up only when life is easy
      • Hard seasons often reveal gaps you had been ignoring, whether in relationships, hobbies, or how you spend your time
      • Pivoting into a new interest or side project doesn't need to be hidden or treated as a source of shame
      • Career identity doesn't have to fit into one neat label, varied experience is an asset, not a disqualifier
      • Employees should actively use the benefits already available to them, EAP support, dental, physicals, and workplace discounts included
      • Being thankful for a job doesn't mean pretending its problems don't exist, gratitude and clear eyes can coexist
      • Relying on secondhand information without checking its source or how old it is leads to bad decisions
      • Talent acquisition and HR are artificially siloed in many organizations when they should be working as one function
      • Longevity in a role or a business isn't something to apologize for, staying relevant matters more than staying new
      • Comparing your life to a standard set by people with no stake in it is a losing game

      Keywords: workplace gratitude, career pivot, employee benefits, HR and talent acquisition, career identity, workplace wellness, EAP benefits, career reinvention, mental health at work, employee engagement

      1 hr 1 min
    • Why Employees Are the Best Advocates for Your Brand

      Jackye Clayton and John Baldino tackle the real emotions behind career transitions and economic hardship during this gratitude-themed episode. They discuss how to practice genuine thankfulness when you are out of work, dealing with personal loss, or facing an uncertain future. The conversation covers Zoom's acquisition of BrightHire, the enduring relevance of platforms like Hack-a-Job, fresh job market data showing unemployment at 4.4%, and how pivoting careers without shame is essential. Both hosts share deeply personal stories about navigating tragedy, rediscovering passions like baking bagels and fostering dogs, and why age should never define your next chapter.

      • Practicing gratitude during personal tragedy and economic hardship is a discipline, not a feeling
      • Zoom acquired BrightHire to monetize the video interviewing space more specifically
      • Unemployment rose to 4.4% even as new jobs were added -- both things can be true simultaneously
      • Career pivoting should be embraced openly, not hidden in shame
      • Your mortgage company does not ask where the money comes from -- do what you need to do
      • Physical therapy for your brain: learning new skills tells your mind to grow and adapt
      • People in their 50s still worry about what the crowd thinks -- let that go
      • Outdated survey data in HR creates false narratives when context and timing are ignored
      • The HR vs. TA divide was a key discussion at the FRBR conference
      • Employee advocacy comes from authentic lived experience, not marketing campaigns

        • [00:06:34] Gratitude in hard seasons: personal tragedies and resilience

        [00:07:05] Zoom acquires BrightHire and what it means for HR tech

        [00:15:19] How to practice gratitude when everything is falling apart

        [00:25:54] Career pivoting without shame: the mortgage company analogy

        [00:31:30] Physical therapy for your brain: learning new skills as healing

        [00:32:38] In your 50s and still worried about the crowd

        [00:36:14] Job market data: unemployment at 4.4% and both things being true

        [00:38:48] Hack-a-Job platform: 10 years old and still relevant

        [00:43:46] HR vs. TA divide at the FRBR conference

        [00:44:48] Employee advocacy through authentic experience

        Keywords: career pivot, gratitude, job market data, Zoom BrightHire acquisition, unemployment rate, employee advocacy, HR tech, personal resilience, career shame, workforce transition

        1 hr 4 min
      • LIVE! from TalentNet Live Dallas '25

        In this live episode recorded ahead of TalentNet 25 in Dallas, Jackye Clayton and John Baldino unpack why over one million jobs were cut in 2025 -- the worst rate since 2003 -- and what that means for HR professionals, consultants, and job seekers. They explore the difference between thought leadership and thought agitation, how overhiring from 2020-2022 created today's correction, and why technology has outpaced management development. The conversation gets personal as both hosts share real struggles with business churn and career pivots, while making the case for kindness, learning environments, and outcome-driven focus heading into Q4.

        • Over 1 million jobs cut in 2025, the highest rate since 2003, surpassing the 2008-2010 financial crisis
        • The difference between thought leadership and thought agitation: agitation sparks ideas without expected outcomes
        • Overhiring from 2020-2022 is a root cause of current layoffs and budget cuts
        • AI is being fed inaccurate information from self-proclaimed experts with only 65% accuracy
        • Lack of succession planning and management development programs that are one-and-done
        • Technology outpaced leadership development, creating a gap between tools and people management
        • Hustle culture rewarded overworking instead of actual impact or loyalty
        • Consultants and influencers going back in-house as companies cut discretionary spending
        • Dog fostering parallels to HR: the importance of first-night assessment and learning environments
        • Focus on measurable outcomes in Q4 rather than chasing agitation-driven trends

          • [00:05:35] Over one million jobs cut in 2025 and economic reality

          [00:12:07] Overhiring from 2020-2022 and its consequences

          [00:18:38] Thought leadership vs. thought agitation explained

          [00:25:00] Consulting spend declining and career pivots

          [00:30:00] DIY self-proclaimed experts and AI misinformation

          [00:34:32] Impact of unqualified voices on HR and recruiting

          [00:37:00] Q4 outcomes focus: lean and focused strategy

          [00:40:39] Dog fostering story and lessons for workplace learning

          [00:45:53] The urgent need for kindness in professional communities

          [00:50:02] Learning from dogs: teaching versus repeating commands

          Keywords: job market 2025, layoffs, thought leadership, overhiring, management development, HR consulting, career pivot, AI misinformation, succession planning, workplace kindness

          1 hr 4 min
        • How to handle Toxic Behaviors in the Workplace

          In this Halloween episode, Jackye Clayton and John Baldino confront workplace toxicity head-on, connecting the massive wave of layoffs across Amazon, UPS, Intel, and Paramount to the fear-driven cultures they leave behind. They explore how companies simultaneously laying off thousands while posting new jobs creates confusion and distrust, why HR professionals are staying silent out of self-preservation, and how the quiet quitting generation has now been pushed out entirely. With raw honesty, they discuss the practical reality of taking a step down in your career to keep a paycheck, the power of cover letters for overqualified applicants, and why sometimes creating your own opportunity is the only answer to a toxic workplace.

          Key Takeaways:

          • Over 176,000 workers were laid off in recent weeks while many of those same companies posted new open positions simultaneously
          • Companies conducting massive layoffs while reporting record profits creates a deeply toxic environment for remaining employees
          • HR professionals are afraid to address toxicity because they fear being next on the layoff list
          • People who quietly quit years ago are now being formally pushed out, extending the cycle of disengagement
          • Taking a step down in role or pay is not failure; blue-collar hustle mentality keeps families afloat during transitions
          • Going into a location in person to apply can overcome the overqualified rejection that happens in digital screening
          • Cover letters and summary statements can explain career pivots that a resume alone cannot communicate
          • If you have felt toxic about your last three jobs, you need to examine whether your expectations are realistic
          • Side hustles and freelance work provide both income and joy during uncertain career transitions
          • People getting promoted during layoff periods are excited but terrified because the roadmap is unclear

            • 00:00 - Halloween opening and pop culture discussion

            12:01 - Massive layoffs at Amazon, UPS, Intel, Paramount and the scale of displacement

            15:06 - Companies hiring and firing simultaneously and the toxicity it creates

            17:21 - SNL and entertainment industry as a mirror for workplace toxicity

            21:21 - High cost of living and the pressure that drives workplace contention

            24:00 - Executives being laid off and the reality of stepping down in role

            28:00 - HR professionals going silent out of fear during layoffs

            31:17 - The break room story: accepting a demotion with dignity

            36:08 - First time seeing layoffs and massive hiring happening at the same time

            38:00 - The overqualified dilemma and going in person to apply

            44:06 - Mandy's question on overqualified professionals seeking lower-level roles

            49:03 - Side hustles, retail joy, and creating your own opportunity

            53:23 - Cover letters and summary statements for career pivots

            56:50 - If every job feels toxic, check your own expectations

            Keywords: toxic workplace culture, massive layoffs 2025, workplace toxicity signs, overqualified job search, career pivot strategies, HR during layoffs, quiet quitting consequences, cover letter tips, stepping down in career, side hustle during unemployment

            1 hr 6 min
          • LIVE from RecFest USA in Nashville

            Broadcasting live from RecFest Nashville, John Baldino and Jackye Clayton bring you inside the outdoor recruiting festival that is unlike any other HR conference. Walking the grounds with laptop in hand, John shares firsthand observations from the festival-style event where real talent acquisition practitioners, not polished keynote speakers, share what is actually working at their organizations. From conversations with TA leaders at Sam's Club and Panda Express to the AI messaging fatigue that has hit every vendor booth, this episode captures the energy, chaos, and authentic connection that makes RecFest a standout event in the recruiting world.

            Key Takeaways:

            • RecFest is a tent-style outdoor festival format that feels more like a music event than a traditional HR conference
            • Most speakers at RecFest are day-to-day practitioners sharing real implementations, not professional speakers
            • AI messaging at vendor booths has become the equivalent of saying you use the internet; it is expected, not differentiating
            • The event has grown so large that Nashville attendance may now exceed the original UK RecFest numbers
            • Networking at after-hours events like Tootsies and Redneck Riviera is where organic community building happens
            • RecFest features an incubator area for emerging TA technology companies alongside established vendors
            • Creative swag like custom airbrush Converse and personality hire hats stand out from standard conference giveaways
            • Team Taylor ATS focuses specifically on candidate and user experience as their differentiator
            • Conference relationships built over shared meals and spontaneous gatherings create lasting professional bonds
            • The recruiting community genuinely cares about each other, with constant check-ins and personal connections

              • 00:00 - Opening from Nashville with Jackye and John

              04:03 - Technical challenges of broadcasting live from a festival

              06:47 - RecFest format explained: outdoor tents, practitioner speakers, festival energy

              10:00 - Walking the expo floor: vendors, incubator area, and booth highlights

              13:04 - William Tincup on RecFest growth from UK origins to Nashville expansion

              15:00 - Nashville nightlife and organic conference networking at Tootsies

              17:54 - Jerry Crispin, godfather of recruiting, cruising on an electric scooter

              19:07 - Team Taylor ATS and the personality hire hat

              22:12 - AI fatigue at vendor booths: saying you have AI is like saying you use the internet

              25:06 - Nashville Broadway nightlife and spontaneous community building

              26:02 - Interviews and sessions to look forward to on day two

              29:10 - Pop culture tangent and closing thoughts

              Keywords: RecFest Nashville, recruiting conference, talent acquisition festival, TA practitioner speakers, HR conference networking, RecFest USA, recruiting technology vendors, candidate experience ATS, recruiting community, outdoor HR conference

              1 hr
            • Strategies for Reducing Bias in Hiring

              Jackye Clayton and John Baldino dig into how hiring bias manifests not just in human decision-making but deep inside the technology, processes, and systems organizations rely on every day. They reveal how applicant tracking systems create barriers for blue-collar workers, why AI tools learn and replicate manager bias over time, and how poorly written job descriptions quietly filter out top talent. Using real examples from construction, fine dining, and healthcare, they show why skills alone are not enough and why contextualizing skills within your specific environment is critical. This episode arms HR and TA professionals with practical strategies to audit their hiring process for hidden bias.

              Key Takeaways:

              • Applicant tracking systems that are not mobile-friendly create implicit bias against blue-collar and frontline workers
              • AI screening tools learn hiring manager preferences over time and start dismissing qualified candidates who do not fit a narrowing pattern
              • When hiring is down overall, compare people-group data proportionally before drawing conclusions about bias
              • Resume parsers in major ATS platforms are still broken, making it unnecessarily difficult for candidates to apply
              • Skills-based hiring needs context; a cook from a casual restaurant is not interchangeable with a fine-dining garde manger
              • AI-generated job descriptions that lack specificity create a different form of bias through vagueness
              • Organizations need regular audits of their AI and tech stack to catch bias that builds over six to twelve months
              • Blind hiring can backfire by making reviewers unconsciously gravitate toward candidates with familiar backgrounds
              • The drop-off rate between starting and completing job applications is staggeringly high across most ATS platforms
              • Sometimes the best hiring happens when you bypass the system and let candidates talk directly to the hiring team

                • 00:00 - Introduction and opening banter

                16:15 - Setting up the bias in hiring conversation

                18:26 - The tool that claimed to eliminate DEI and why it was inherently biased

                19:34 - Using math correctly: comparing hiring declines proportionally across groups

                21:49 - Look at who has left your organization to find where bias may exist

                25:03 - Construction industry losing six workers for every one hired

                30:04 - How ATS technology blocks blue-collar and frontline candidates

                33:20 - Broken resume parsers in Workday, iCIMS, and major platforms

                36:05 - LinkedIn application click-through vs. actual completion rates

                40:01 - Fine dining example: why skills need environmental context

                45:56 - AI learns hiring manager bias and self-affirms narrow patterns

                49:10 - Why regular tech stack audits are essential to catch creeping bias

                Keywords: hiring bias ATS, AI bias in recruiting, applicant tracking system barriers, skills-based hiring context, resume parser problems, blue-collar recruiting bias, tech stack audit hiring, blind hiring drawbacks, job description bias, frontline worker hiring

                1 hr 3 min
              • The Impact of Manager Training on Employee Experience

                Jackye Clayton and John Baldino tackle the uncomfortable truth about manager training and its direct impact on employee experience. They expose why promoting top performers into management often backfires, how punitive training creates resistance instead of growth, and why organizations spend more time teaching software than building leadership skills. Drawing from their own experience as corporate trainers, they share practical insights on measuring training ROI, recognizing the Dunning-Kruger effect in new managers, and why proactive training prevents emergencies rather than reacting to them. This episode challenges HR leaders to rethink their entire approach to developing people managers.

                Key Takeaways:

                • Length of service does not equal management ability; leadership is a separate skill from job performance
                • Promoting your top salesperson to manager often destroys both their career satisfaction and team productivity
                • Organizations spend more time training employees on software systems than on company culture or KPIs
                • Punitive or reactionary training creates resistance and fails to drive lasting behavioral change
                • The Dunning-Kruger effect causes new managers to overestimate their abilities and resist learning
                • Manager investment directly correlates to employee engagement; undertrained managers default to bad habits
                • Training departments once had observers who tracked participant engagement for performance reviews
                • Online training creates a disservice because you cannot read the room or gauge real engagement
                • Training should be proactive and preventive, not triggered only after something goes wrong
                • A post-training follow-up two weeks later asking about relevance is more valuable than a day-of satisfaction survey

                  • 00:00 - Introduction and banter with Jackye and John

                  08:12 - Starbucks new CEO policy and the personal experience angle

                  17:02 - Early career HR professionals thrown into business partner roles too soon

                  18:24 - Introducing the manager training topic and its impact on employees

                  19:50 - Practical training vs. theoretical training from their own experience

                  23:45 - Why promoting top performers into management fails

                  27:55 - The premise of why manager training is necessary

                  28:30 - Punitive training vs. proactive investment in leadership development

                  30:11 - How new software rollouts create false unity and community

                  35:30 - The correlation between manager investment and employee engagement

                  44:08 - People leave managers sometimes but also leave companies

                  45:01 - Measuring training effectiveness beyond day-of surveys

                  50:15 - Online training limitations and the lost art of training reports

                  52:25 - Anti-harassment training fatigue and maintaining quality year over year

                  Keywords: manager training effectiveness, employee engagement, leadership development, promoting top performers, Dunning-Kruger effect management, punitive training, proactive manager development, training ROI, employee experience, HR training strategy

                  1 hr 3 min
                • Creating Equitable Opportunities for All Employees

                  What happens to a person's sense of self when they lose their job — and how do organizations, employees, and HR leaders navigate that experience with empathy? This episode of But First, Coffee examines the emotional, psychological, and practical realities of layoffs. Jackye Clayton and John Baldino explore why how a company handles a reduction in force reveals its true values, and what displaced workers can do to protect their professional identity, stay market-ready, and make thoughtful decisions during one of the most disorienting career moments they will face.

                  Key Takeaways:

                  • Layoffs carry a significant psychological toll — loss of income triggers loss of identity, self-esteem, and purpose, and that emotional reality must be acknowledged
                  • Mass-applying to jobs after a layoff is counterproductive; targeted, intentional outreach aligned with your strengths is more effective
                  • Having multiple resume versions is not dishonest — it is a smart, recruiter-aligned strategy that speaks to different roles and contexts
                  • Staying connected with former managers and colleagues is essential; the relationships you maintain after a layoff often open the next door
                  • Business realities — store closures, economic shifts, consumer behavior changes — do not excuse poor people practices, but they do require honest context
                  • Consumer buying decisions increasingly reflect personal values, and companies that misalign with those values face real market consequences
                  • Career coaching and trusted advisors are not a luxury during transitions — they are a necessity for clear, objective thinking when emotion clouds judgment
                  • Starting an LLC or consulting practice is a legitimate and increasingly viable alternative to traditional re-employment
                  • Organizations that handle reductions in force with transparency and dignity protect their employer brand for future hiring and retention
                  • Equitable access to opportunity is not guaranteed — it requires active effort from both employers and individuals navigating career transitions
                    • 00:00 — Introduction and framing the episode around layoffs and workforce displacement
                    • 06:00 — The emotional and psychological impact of being laid off
                    • 14:00 — Why mass-applying after a layoff rarely works
                    • 22:00 — Resume strategy: multiple versions and the recruiter perspective
                    • 30:00 — Staying connected with former colleagues and the power of relationships
                    • 38:00 — Business realities: store closures, economic context, and organizational decisions
                    • 44:00 — Consumer values and how buying behaviors reflect alignment with company positions
                    • 50:00 — Starting an LLC as an alternative to traditional employment
                    • 55:00 — The role of career coaching and trusted advisors in navigating transitions
                    • 59:00 — Closing thoughts on equitable opportunity and professional identity

                      • Keywords: layoffs, reduction in force, workforce displacement, career transition, job loss recovery, professional identity, resume strategy, career coaching, equitable opportunity, employer brand

                      1 hr 4 min
                    • LIVE! From HR Tech 2025 in Las Vegas

                      Broadcasting live from the HR Technology Conference in Las Vegas, John Baldino gives an unfiltered look at the biggest trends, missed opportunities, and real conversations happening on the expo floor. He challenges the sea of identical agentic AI messaging from vendors, highlights why the startup area is the hidden gem of the conference, and explains why behavioral AI diagnostics represent the next frontier in HR technology. From the relational power of after-hours events to honest observations about enterprise-level marketing leaving mid-market companies behind, this mini-episode delivers conference insights you will not get from the main stage.

                      Key Takeaways:

                      • Every vendor is waving the agentic AI banner, but it has become table stakes and no longer differentiates products
                      • The startup area at HR Tech is where the real innovation and hunger to solve problems lives
                      • Startups should own a niche industry or company size rather than trying to be all things to all people
                      • HR tech founders without practitioner experience lose credibility when they cannot explain workflow context
                      • Behavioral AI diagnostics that analyze turnover patterns and onboarding gaps represent the next evolution
                      • The conference is heavily marketed to enterprise organizations with 5,000-plus employees, leaving most employers underserved
                      • After-hours events, dinners, and happy hours are where the deepest business relationships are built
                      • Conference swag trends include cross-body bags, notebooks, Tide pens, and compact stuffed animals
                      • HR practitioners attending sessions openly noted that many vendor offerings feel repetitive
                      • The real ROI of attending HR Tech is relational, not just educational or credit-based

                        • 00:00 - Live from HR Tech Conference in Las Vegas

                        01:25 - Observations on enterprise-focused marketing and vendor saturation

                        03:08 - Why every booth says agentic AI and why it no longer matters

                        04:04 - The startup area as the hidden gem of the conference

                        07:00 - Why founders need practitioner empathy and workflow context

                        08:30 - Swag report highlights from the expo floor

                        14:06 - The value of after-hours events for real business conversations

                        16:07 - Mini episode format and conference schedule intensity

                        19:03 - Behavioral AI diagnostics as the next frontier in HR tech

                        21:00 - Closing thoughts and looking ahead

                        Keywords: HR Tech Conference 2025, agentic AI HR, HR technology startups, behavioral AI diagnostics, conference networking, HR tech expo, vendor differentiation, enterprise HR software, startup innovation, candidate experience technology

                        24 min

                      About But First, Coffee

                      From the publisher's feed

                      But First, Coffee is a live weekly talk show where Jackye Clayton and John Baldino bring candid, insightful conversations about the world of work, leadership, and all things people. Each episode…